Main Topic [Issue 76]

[Magenta 5,165]

One big thumbs-up from me for that thing you did to the newspaper section <3.

[Quarks 2,255]

its the stuff lazy people with no creavity do.. it's always the same standard format.. describe each component one by one with commonsense stuff everyone already knows and then talk about the kit on overall...

 

all you have to do is find another one someone else wrote and replace descriptions with the ones for your kit

Sorta a follow up on what KG said, but reviews are hard, and kit reviews may actually be the hardest, for exactly the reason you said. It is hard to bring something new to the table when writing guides, trust me, I have done my fair share of them, but that isn't a reason to say that it is lazy with no creativity, because guides are the hardest to write and they need to come from an expert.

A year or so ago, in the AWS, kit reviews were everywhere and they started to become stagnant, as people didn't actually have a firm handle on the information: theory-crafting can only take you so far. They died because they were becoming too common. In this issue, while it might be a bit dry, LKTTD (I'm lazy) put in a huge amount of work with a lot of research and it exuded experience on a kit that he has enjoyed using. While it might not be your cup of tea, others enjoy them and they can prove very handy if anyone is thinking about buying them in the future. 

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Sorta a follow up on what KG said, but reviews are hard, and kit reviews may actually be the hardest, for exactly the reason you said. It is hard to bring something new to the table when writing guides, trust me, I have done my fair share of them, but that isn't a reason to say that it is lazy with no creativity, because guides are the hardest to write and they need to come from an expert.

A year or so ago, in the AWS, kit reviews were everywhere and they started to become stagnant, as people didn't actually have a firm handle on the information: theory-crafting can only take you so far. They died because they were becoming too common. In this issue, while it might be a bit dry, LKTTD (I'm lazy) put in a huge amount of work with a lot of research and it exuded experience on a kit that he has enjoyed using. While it might not be your cup of tea, others enjoy them and they can prove very handy if anyone is thinking about buying them in the future. 

all you have to do is

 

describe the turret

 

describe the hull

 

describe the module

 

describe the paint simply to make the review longer with this completely useless info cause by the time you're high enough rank to get a kit you should already have the camouflage paints for the different maps.

 

describe the kit as a whole and whether it's worth the prize.

 

 

 

 

and I swear most of them are lying when they rate the kit or the components. How come everything is so close to 10? do they know that the whole point of the scale being from 1-10 is so that things can be dustributed evenly among those numbers? might as well make the scale 1-5  or 1-3 if they gonna rate everything 6 or 8 and above. at least this way it's not misleading.

Edited June 11, 2018 by GuidoFawkes

[Quarks 2,255]

all you have to do is

 

describe the turret

 

describe the hull

 

describe the module

 

describe the paint simply to make the review longer with this completely useless info cause by the time you're high enough rank to get a kit you should already have the camouflage paints for the different maps.

 

describe the kit as a whole and whether it's worth the prize.

 

 

 

 

and I swear most of them are lying when they rate the kit or the components. How come everything is so close to 10? do they know that the whole point of the scale being from 1-10 is so that things can be dustributed evenly among those numbers? might as well make the scale 1-5  or 1-3 if they gonna rate everything 6 or 8 and above. at least this way it's not misleading.

They aren't lying, what is the benefit from that. They rate it highly because that is a combination that they like to use. I said it before, and I will say it again, you don't need to like every article in the paper, but we want to keep it varied for everyone, and some people enjoy reading these reviews. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it is bad.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

They aren't lying, what is the benefit from that. They rate it highly because that is a combination that they like to use. I said it before, and I will say it again, you don't need to like every article in the paper, but we want to keep it varied for everyone, and some people enjoy reading these reviews. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it is bad.

if everything is high then how are people supposed to see which are the ones that are really good?

 

i only said i don't like it and they do the same thing over and over cause they are lazy and it doesn't require creavity.

 

good or bad is subject to perspective, if you don't mind people praising them but my critisim bother you then you're biased.

[Quarks 2,255]

if everything is high then how are people supposed to see which are the ones that are really good?

 

i only said i don't like it and they do the same thing over and over cause they are lazy and it doesn't require creavity.

 

good or bad is subject to perspective, if you don't mind people praising them but my critisim bother you then you're biased.

It isn't the criticism that I mind, though I don't know how clear I made that, but that you are calling something that requires a lot of effort to write lazy. I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree with the idea they are lazy.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

It isn't the criticism that I mind, though I don't know how clear I made that, but that you are calling something that requires a lot of effort to write lazy. I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree with the idea they are lazy.

if it's the same thing every issue, all you have to do is change the previous one to a new version but replace the parts that are different but keep the format.

 

they can't just think of something different? did you see people asking for more kit reviews? all i see is the same people making the same compliments as usual just like what they say on just about every other article. the same usual people who alway praise every article do the sam thing on kit reviews so what makes them think people like kit rewiews so much in particular to the point where they want to read it every issue? becaus they just need to write something so they just take someting they can easily do without thinking too much.

 

writing out those paragraphs isn't easy i know. My point is that they're too lazy to think of something different to do.   otherwise why the same thing every issue? if no one likes kit reviews in particular then don't spam it. I didn't hate kit reviews at first but after seeing it over and over again i got sick of them.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

....

depends. if they interview some active well known EN mod anyone can talk to and ask themwelves then that is lazy..

 

but if you manage to get an interview with @Dynamite or @Gothic ... then it's different. writing it out is easy but getting the interview and finding out about their background to come up with the questions takes a lot of work.

[GrandExecutioner 1,403]

^ I can see the shots being fired from all directions now. Anyone left standing?

[Flexoo 6,980]

Just few words to this conversation and some points Guido mentioned here before it gets too much out of the hand. If you do not like particular article, you find that theme repetitive or it's just not your cup of coffee, that's completely fine. Everyone has their likings, so if you don't find something interesting, just skip it or leave your feedback, even if it's negative, but please try to be constructive so we know what to improve.

 

As for the lack of creativity, please try to understand that every article is different. Some articles are based more on facts or personal experiences like guides and reviews, others require more imagination and creativity like humor-based articles, for example The Dictator. That's why we try to provide wider range of articles to please a variety of readers who like variety of different things. You may not take liking in the articles like kit reviews that you described as repetitive, but bear in mind that you do not represent the opinion of each and every reader. You might not like the format, and the theme, but there are others who like when author is methodical with format and like the topics he writes about.

 

As you said, it's a matter of perspective. That applies also to the point you made about the rating of the componenets. Just because he rates the components highly does not mean that he is lying, it does not mean he is wrong, but it also does not mean he is right. Every reader reflects upon it differently. The writer can rate something 10/10 because from his point the equipment is powerful based on the statistics and experience he gained and I can absolutely agree with him because I share the same opinion and experience but, for example you, can hate that particular equipment and the playing style it offers, thus giving it far lower marks. Of course that does not mean that you or me are wrong, it only means we differ in opinion which is absolutely normal.

[You.Have.to.die 519]

^ I can see the shots being fired from all directions now. Anyone left standing?

The final blow has been made. ^

[gokuMI6 1,290]

End of story 

 

Well i actually bought Tornado after reading it's review

[Quarks 2,255]

Can we just end this discussion? I realize that I propelled some of it, but it is also important to realize that we are not going to be getting anything else out of this conversation due to differences in opinions. While constructive criticism is always important, and it makes Reporters, AWS writers, and other tankers better, we also need to learn when it has gone on too long, and the only thing coming out of this discussion is people butting heads.

 

I think Flexoo made good and valid points in defense of the Newspaper (he is the admin after all) and Guido made some good ones as well that boil down to differences in opinion that I think we all got a bit to riled up on. I propose that the discussion on this particular topic can be concluded and we can enjoy the different parts of the paper that we enjoy and have a place to give feedback that won't turn into a war of different opinions that will never be resolved.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Can we just end this discussion? I realize that I propelled some of it, but it is also important to realize that we are not going to be getting anything else out of this conversation due to differences in opinions. While constructive criticism is always important, and it makes Reporters, AWS writers, and other tankers better, we also need to learn when it has gone on too long, and the only thing coming out of this discussion is people butting heads.

 

I think Flexoo made good and valid points in defense of the Newspaper (he is the admin after all) and Guido made some good ones as well that boil down to differences in opinion that I think we all got a bit to riled up on. I propose that the discussion on this particular topic can be concluded and we can enjoy the different parts of the paper that we enjoy and have a place to give feedback that won't turn into a war of different opinions that will never be resolved.

you don't like the discussion then just don't read. or put me on your ignore list.

wait... he actually hid my reply so the "final blow" could remain his. I wonder which part of my reply was against the rules? my constructive critism?

[Flexoo 6,980]

Please do not make this topic a war field, that applies to everyone. We are not here to attack each other. Everyone is free to make a point, but there is not really a need to go into some personal fights or take this as some personal attacks.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Please do not make this topic a war field, that applies to everyone. We are not here to attack each other. Everyone is free to make a point, but there is not really a need to go into some personal fights or take this as some personal attacks.

did i attack anyone in person? can i know why you removed my reply?

[Flexoo 6,980]

You can contact me in PM if you wish, we can discuss it further.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

make sure your reaction to my PMs wil be as quick as your reaction to me is here. otherwise I'll be forced to be back here

I hope you're not just saying that so you can ignore my PMs

Edited June 12, 2018 by GuidoFawkes

[Flexoo 6,980]

I have no reason to ignore the messages.

[Magenta 5,165]

Hey, let's talk statistics. I do not the ability to create a survey that a large enough number of people can take, but I can do by best to collect data from what we have. And my best I shall do, albeit please keep in mind that the following numbers will not conclude a conclusion as accurate as one a survey would have belched out, but I hope is accurate enough to satisfy our purposes. I would, though, welcome the Newspaper Administration to conduct a proper survey.

 

With that, let's commence.

 

In this month's issue, we had:

 

2 Guides on kits and equipment.

1 Guide that was not on kits, equipment, or other such mainstream things.
1 Editorial that was mainly informative and humorous.

1 Interview.

2 Humorous articles.

There's no reason we should count contests and results.

 

Guido has expressed that he does not like mainstream guides on kits, equipment, maps etc. I can only presume that the demographic he represents has no problems with the kind of guide. With that presumption in mind, we can see that Guido and those who feel the way he does found a bit more than 1/3^rd of this month's issue to be irrelevant. Said demographic probably didn't like the 2 guides, but liked the other 5 articles.

 

Let's rank each of the 5 article categories we mentioned above but the number of likes it's articles received (these numbers are averaged. So if article A and article B, both from the same category, received 5 and 7 likes respectively, we'll say the category received 6 likes on average).

 

Guides on non-mainstream objectives (20 likes)

Humorous articles (average of 17.5 likes) (total of 35 likes received)

Informative and humorous editorial (17 likes)

Interview (17 likes)

Guides on kits and equipment (average of 12.5 likes) (total of 25 likes received)

 

Total likes: 114

Total likes received by guides on kits and equipment: 25

Percentage of total likes that guides on kits and equipments received: 21.9%

 

Having constituted 28.5% of all articles on this month's issue, guides on kits and equipments received 21.9% of all likes received, and fared the worse when ranked by the number of likes received.

 

From that data, I think it's safe to conclude that guides are unpopular.

[Quarks 2,255]

 

Hey, let's talk statistics. I do not the ability to create a survey that a large enough number of people can take, but I can do by best to collect data from what we have. And my best I shall do, albeit please keep in mind that the following numbers will not conclude a conclusion as accurate as one a survey would have belched out, but I hope is accurate enough to satisfy our purposes. I would, though, welcome the Newspaper Administration to conduct a proper survey.

 

With that, let's commence.

 

In this month's issue, we had:

 

2 Guides on kits and equipment.

1 Guide that was not on kits, equipment, or other such mainstream things.

1 Editorial that was mainly informative and humorous.

1 Interview.

2 Humorous articles.

There's no reason we should count contests and results.

 

Guido has expressed that he does not like mainstream guides on kits, equipment, maps etc. I can only presume that the demographic he represents has no problems with the kind of guide @Viking4s did. With that presumption in mind, we can see that Guido and those who feel the way he does found a bit more than 1/3^rd of this month's issue to be irrelevant. Said demographic probably didn't like the 2 guides, but liked the other 5 articles.

 

Let's rank each of the 5 article categories we mentioned above but the number of likes it's articles received (these numbers are averaged. So if article A and article B, both from the same category, received 5 and 7 likes respectively, we'll say the category received 6 likes on average).

 

Guides on non-mainstream objectives (20 likes)

Humorous articles (average of 17.5 likes) (total of 35 likes received)

Informative and humorous editorial (17 likes)

Interview (17 likes)

Guides on kits and equipment (average of 12.5 likes) (total of 25 likes received)

 

Total likes: 114

Total likes received by guides on kits and equipment: 25

Percentage of total likes that guides on kits and equipment received: 21.9%

 

Having constituted 28.5% of all articles on this month's issue, guides on kits and equipment received 21.9% of all likes received, and fared the worse when ranked by the number of likes received.

 

From that data, I think it's safe to conclude that guides are unpopular.

 

Statistics can mean what ever you want them to mean. What would have been more productive was establishing the different people to calculate the net-likes, otherwise these statistics can mean whatever you want. I could view these articles as getting the second highest mount of gross likes, and therefore they should stay. Also, there is a difference between less liked and unpopular; according to this data, a fifth of the likes that the newspaper received would not be there. 

 

It would also be safe to assume that there would be a number of people who would be unhappy if these guides went away, and I know for a fact that there are some people, myself included, that enjoy reading reviews and guides the most, as they are the most practical to the game that is directly related to this newspaper. Guides have been a part of TO Newspaper history for 6 years, and a few dissenting opinions will probably not stop them from being written. 

[Magenta 5,165]

I've merely said that guides are unpopular. Perhaps it would be more accurate of me to say that guides are not as popular as other kinds of articles.

 

l'm sorry I didn't, the end was a bit rushes, I had to attend personal business on short notice, and I typed the last sentence in utter haste.

 

Anyway, I've not once proposed that guides be removed. My purpose is to be of help; if I am to deviate from this purpose, pray correct me. Before collecting the data I've presented above (quite a bit above), I honestly did not have an opinion formed. To put it in the generic way, the slate was clean.

 

I understand both sides of the argument. As many have pointed out, dear Guido, I see no reason why the existence of guides should bother you in the least, since you do not lack the power to ignore. As Guido has pointed out, dear many, it's probably time that the field of guide writing has some innovation, a bit of deviation from the same old rigid structure.

 

Some of the most active guidewriters have tried to innovate, to change. They have worked hard to make guides less boring. Their interest is to entertain, afterall.

 

So can the guides get better? Yes, like everything else, except maybe The Dictator because that's yis and yis is God.

 

But that's not our problem here. Our real problem is that Guido - and those that he represents, which is everyone to a certain degree - is not entertained enough. 7 articles are not enough to live a month through. And at the heart of that problem lies not a lazy and corrupt Flexoo, but a lack of reporters.

 

So if you are sick of guides and reviews, go apply for being a reporter, and write what you want to read. Now I understand that might be impossible for all sorts of reasons. So I can only ask you to understand what the problem really is, and work productively against it. Let your friends know about this game, this community, this newspaper. Help it grow. And above all, don't demorale the people already here with negativity.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Magenta

[Quarks 2,255]

So if you are sick of guides and reviews, go apply for being a reporter, and write what you want to read. Now I understand that might be impossible for all sorts of reasons. So I can only ask you to understand what the problem really is, and work productively against it. Let your friends know about this game, this community, this newspaper. Help it grow. And above all, don't demorale the people already here with negativity.

I was a Reporter ;), did you ever check the archives? Anyways, I get your point, and I did rush to a conclusion on your potential bias, so sorry about that. In case you were wondering about my biases, I wrote mostly guides, reviews, and opinion pieces, which is why I was defending them so much against Quido, as I wrote them and know the amount of work that goes into them. 

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

I have no reason to ignore the messages.

okay you're ignoring now. I don't think any of the forum trolls come to the newspaper section but you'll have one now

 

You told me i could discuss with you in PM but that's not ture cause you don't reply

Edited June 13, 2018 by GuidoFawkes

[GrandExecutioner 1,403]

okay you're ignoring now. I don't think any of the forum trolls come to the newspaper section but you'll have one now

 

You told me i could discuss with you in PM but that's not ture cause you don't reply

He's probably not seen it yet. He is an admin. Be patient.