Drones, Batteries and Modules Update

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Sounds very on the point.

 

But maybe, players like you and me are not the target group of the drone/battery system.

IMHO I believe that drones are very useful for players that buy batteries by money, equip their favourite drone of choice and enjoy the higher power without needing to think about when to activate which drug.

 

The way it is implemented now it looks like a feature

- where you pay for convenience and power

- but that you can only keep powered up by money

 

 

And exactly this makes me think why they refunded exceeding protections by adding batteries to the players accounts.

Non-buyers can not keep that up-and-running; and buyers do not need to be given thousands of batteries.. they would try to buy them anyways.

 

On the other hand.. what else can you refund to a buyer, that owns already sooo many protections that his garage was exceeding the new protection prices? There is not much left, except batteries and supplies..

I think you are on a lot of solid ground here. The biggest module collections that returned zero batteries were probably bought for cash to a large extent.   TO wants them to have something to buy. That seems plausible.

 

But they could have still developed a logarithmic scaled payback curve. .... 100x the trae-in value returned only 2x the Batteries. So everyone would have gotten something and been much happier.

 

Oh yes your are. You also said many other things, but where is the quadruple protection modules how close is that?  

How bad? Bad for whom, for what? You don't own a drone and you don't intend to use one.

Stop please being a Cassandra. You might be right one time and wrong the other, but still everything will follow its fate.

Continue to suggest ideas and bring constructive critics but please don't turn into a salty and/or sour player/spammer.

That job is taken. And I'm not looking for an assistant.

 

The Quad idea is very good...

 

 

Not it's not.

 

There are only 8 players on a team. With only 3 modules all it takes is one duplicate weapon for a 3-pack to give protection against 50% of the enemy force.  If the enemy force has more than one duplicate a three-pack can give protection against 75% of all enemy tanks .. even more.  The module system wold be the #1 factor is team balance most likely

 

Add a 4-pack system and in 8v8 battles every team could mount protections against the majority of the enemy team, every battle.

 

Why should protections be given such a predominant effect in the game.  What issue would this solve?  I've never read you give a reason for the 4-pack system other than Basic Guy Theory: More / Bigger Is Always Better.

Edited June 10, 2018 by LittleWillie

[VaudeVille 1,428]

I've come back like after a year and I've no idea what's happening

Drones..? XD XD

 

Will we also have submarines in the future?

Edited June 11, 2018 by VaudeVille

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

Not it's not.

 

There are only 8 players on a team. With only 3 modules all it takes is one duplicate weapon for a 3-pack to give protection against 50% of the enemy force.  If the enemy force has more than one duplicate a three-pack can give protection against 75% of all enemy tanks .. even more.  The module system wold be the #1 factor is team balance most likely

 

Add a 4-pack system and in 8v8 battles every team could mount protections against the majority of the enemy team, every battle.

 

Why should protections be given such a predominant effect in the game.  What issue would this solve?  I've never read you give a reason for the 4-pack system other than Basic Guy Theory: More / Bigger Is Always Better.

You're right, I have not explained all the reasons behind my idea. And I'm not saying it's a good idea because of the quad protection alone, because it can also be converted to a triple protection. But I'll explain it another day, some do understand though.

 

I like your idea about ranks and waiting priorities and I'm thinking of a modified version, that could also help with the Groups problem, but I have to think on all the possible issues first. Maybe after the Matchmaking and Module topics are archived you can post it in IAS so I can add what I have on mind.

Edited June 11, 2018 by r_Issimo2

[CooperO 7,956]

That job is taken. And I'm not looking for an assistant.

There's a difference between the salt that brings out the flavor and the salt that kills the flavor though. You're the former.

 

I've come back like after a year and I've no idea what's happening

Drones..? XD XD

 

Will we also have submarines in the future?

We'd need water for that first, don't you think?..;p

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

If I get a free drone for completing a giveaway or other event, then I will use it, but I will never ever spend crystals to buy a drone, like I promised you folks before.

 

I have a good idea for one drone that can reward players. How about having a drone that can drop 1 gold box or 1 container? That sound good because it is not the same as the current drones because it does not do the same effect as the overdrive. By having a drone drop 1 gold box or 1 container is a good idea. If this type of drone gets implemented, it will drop 1 gold box or 1 container without using any gold box or container supplies that you own, just like the overdrives. The overdrives does not use any of your supplies, so a gold box and container drone will do the same. That is to not use any of your golds and containers supplies.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

You're right, I have not explained all the reasons behind my idea. And I'm not saying it's a good idea because of the quad protection alone, because it can also be converted to a triple protection. But I'll explain it another day, some do understand though.

 

I like your idea about ranks and waiting priorities and I'm thinking of a modified version, that could also help with the Groups problem, but I have to think on all the possible issues first. Maybe after the Matchmaking and Module topics are archived you can post it in IAS so I can add what I have on mind.

Fair enough, I will explain what I mean. From what I saw LCY module owners were very upset they were losing the ability to run 4 protections.  So naturally many players started thinking of ways to made a 4-way version of the new system.  The goal was just keeping a 4-way system for the sake of keeping a 4-way system. But I did not read every detail because....

 

It is fun to talk about game theory but there is little point to getting into the nitty gritty details. The devs are not going to  create software based on a forum post.  Generl concernes will filter thjrough over time.  Sometimes the suggestions appear in odd ways.

 

The new drones system in short brings a way to manipulate the basic DA/DD/SB/M/RK supplies system. That is a simplistic system.  Drones add a level of complexity to that. So in a sense these Drones might be considered a response mades two years ago for a more clever way to use Supplies.

 

But did anyone say the way to do that is make these hear drones?  No.  A lot of other specific designes were suggested. But we ened up with a dev idea: drones.

 

There's a difference between the salt that brings out the flavor and the salt that kills the flavor though. You're the former.

 

We'd need water for that first, don't you think?..;p

Well thanks. One side of the coin is you gotta do what you're good at doing. Maybe not as often tho

 

''''''''

 

As far a drone ideas go I was thinking in the defensive category an anti-drone drone.  Y'know, it zaps a nearby enemy drone disabling it for awhile.

Edited June 11, 2018 by LittleWillie

[BlackEliteEnemy2 250]

Well, i got this flying stuff in my garage, i equipped it, got several times spawn killed and lost 10 batteries.

My idea is, press '7', like activating a battery. U got 1 minute to do what you should to activate your drone. (Activating drone, not to waste batteries just like that)

[wolverine848 13,097]

Fair enough, I will explain what I mean. From what I saw LCY module owners were very upset they were losing the ability to run 4 protections.  So naturally many players started thinking of ways to made a 4-way version of the new system.  The goal was just keeping a 4-way system for the sake of keeping a 4-way system. But I did not read every detail because....

 

I think part of the outcry over the removal of LGC modules was the players were going to lose items they invested a lot of crystals in with no compensation. Usually that 4th protection was moderate at best, and many times a token %.

 

And turns out they were correct.  very few players received decent (if any) compensation for their investments. I had a number of LGC modules and though I did not lose nearly as much investment as others did, I received no batteries. Nada. pretty sure when they converted they subtracted (at least part of) the cost of the paint even though it had no effect on gameplay.

[Maf 32,300]

Well, i got this flying stuff in my garage, i equipped it, got several times spawn killed and lost 10 batteries.

My idea is, press '7', like activating a battery. U got 1 minute to do what you should to activate your drone. (Activating drone, not to waste batteries just like that)

Topic merged

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I think part of the outcry over the removal of LGC modules was the players were going to lose items they invested a lot of crystals in with no compensation. Usually that 4th protection was moderate at best, and many times a token %.

 

And turns out they were correct.  very few players received decent (if any) compensation for their investments. I had a number of LGC modules and though I did not lose nearly as much investment as others did, I received no batteries. Nada. pretty sure when they converted they subtracted (at least part of) the cost of the paint even though it had no effect on gameplay.

Yes that was another LGC owner concern and on that score I agree 100%.  A little brainstorming would have created a formula that gave everyone some return on that investment.  Some accounts made out like tieves in teh conversion. Other accounts wee robbed.  That is not the sign of a good system.

[Viking4s 10,791]

Yes that was another LGC owner concern and on that score I agree 100%.  A little brainstorming would have created a formula that gave everyone some return on that investment.  Some accounts made out like tieves in teh conversion. Other accounts wee robbed.  That is not the sign of a good system.

Let's us not talk about all the players whom had the overall old module value below the value of the new module system. Let's not say that they had a pretty good bargain with this update.

 

Players with a weak module protection system benefited hugely from this update. However the new single flexible modules are expensive, so their gain against strong players is still limited. They will still have to spend many crystals in the future to catch up with other players who had many modules to start with. So good bargain but still a long way to full protection.

 

The players with many modules don't have now to spend that much money anymore to complete the full set of protection, therefore they keep their advantage 1/ by a wider module combining and 2/ by using these spare crystals to other use such as turrets and hulls MUing.

 

The power play/balance/investment is preserved, in some case it is better in some case it is less, but it is marginal as overall the hierarchy remains.

 

The magic conversion formula your are suggesting to make everyone happy is an utopia, whatever solution you come up with will never satisfy anybody -  players still have the mindset about complaining (not all of them ofc). 

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

Let's us not talk about all the players whom had the overall old module value below the value of the new module system. Let's not say that they had a pretty good bargain with this update.

 

Players with a weak module protection system benefited hugely from this update. However the new single flexible modules are expensive, so their gain against strong players is still limited. They will still have to spend many crystals in the future to catch up with other players who had many modules to start with. So good bargain but still a long way to full protection.

 

The players with many modules don't have now to spend that much money anymore to complete the full set of protection, therefore they keep their advantage 1/ by a wider module combining and 2/ by using these spare crystals to other use such as turrets and hulls MUing.

 

The power play/balance/investment is preserved, in some case it is better in some case it is less, but it is marginal as overall the hierarchy remains.

 

The magic conversion formula your are suggesting to make everyone happy is an utopia, whatever solution you come up with will never satisfy anybody -  players still have the mindset about complaining (not all of them ofc). 

 

 

as opposed to the "secret conversion formula" actually used? 

The 3x increase in price ensured many did not get compensated.

 

 

Another flaw in the conversion done was ignoring duplicate modules from 2017 system.

 

Player A bought 3 triple M3-modules covering 7 protections - lets say they own a Thunder and like to be covered on a few combos.

Player B bought 3 triple modules covering 9 different protection - lets say does not use Thunder and not worried about Splash damage.

 

After conversion Player B has protection from 2 more turrets than Player A, even though they invested the same amount of crystals.

To catch up Player A needs to invest 250k-500k crystals just to catch up.

And yet did not receive any batteries for those two duplicate protections they invested in.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

There are only 8 players on a team. With only 3 modules all it takes is one duplicate weapon for a 3-pack to give protection against 50% of the enemy force

 

Good point.

 

There are always PRO battles. Perhaps Quad coverage modules could be enabled for PRO only battles.

 

Oh, wait, I forgot TO dislikes PRO battles and will probably remove them as soon as they think they can get away with it. :ph34r:

[Viking4s 10,791]

as opposed to the "secret conversion formula" actually used? 

The 3x increase in price ensured many did not get compensated.

 

Another flaw in the conversion done was ignoring duplicate modules from 2017 system.

 

Player A bought 3 triple M3-modules covering 7 protections - lets say they own a Thunder and like to be covered on a few combos.

Player B bought 3 triple modules covering 9 different protection - lets say does not use Thunder and not worried about Splash damage.

 

After conversion Player B has protection from 2 more turrets than Player A, even though they invested the same amount of crystals.

To catch up Player A needs to invest 250k-500k crystals just to catch up.

And yet did not receive any batteries for those two duplicate protections they invested in.

They were no secret formulation - it was explained in the Vlog and many other time in the topic associated.

The advantage of power/protection they still have it. Everybody went up in power (the highest protection and up to 50%) and in protection (more combo possible + mine). If you didn't received batteries it means that your old protection module system in value is lower than the value of the new one.

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

The problem with the conversion was the new module system, it didn't allow for a better conversion method.

 

I knew splitting protections wouldn't be fair because it'd leave some Legends with 4 or 5 m3+ modules with a complete system, while having to give a lot of batteries to others that invested a lot more, then leaving the rest with an expensive to manage system.

 

That's why I was talking about these issues before the update and offering an alternative, while many of you were defending it, likely because some of you were going to benefit from the conversion tremendously or you thought you would.

 

The new system is still bad even if we get over the conversion pains.

 

I say it didn't allow for a better conversion because if it was converted based only on Crystal value, those with 4 m3+ triple modules would have got the equivalent 4 new m3+ modules and they would have been very upset; those with 14 m3+ triple modules would have got the complete system fairly; those with more would have got compensated; and the rest would have got the expensive system with even less protection.

[LibertyInChrist 2]

ANY chance TO will give us all a free weekend with free drones and unlimited batteries to find out how to use them and enjoy them and maybe get hooked on them thus increasing use and sales? :D

[wolverine848 13,097]

They were no secret formulation - it was explained in the Vlog and many other time in the topic associated.

The advantage of power/protection they still have it. Everybody went up in power (the highest protection and up to 50%) and in protection (more combo possible + mine). If you didn't received batteries it means that your old protection module system in value is lower than the value of the new one.

Did the LGC paints purchased (example Africa) get credited for their full value (300,000 crystals) during the conversion?

 

If I had - from all my triple-modules - 3 versions of Thunder at 43% and 3 versions of Shaft at 43%, etc... all I ended up with at end was 43% for each of those.  The evaluating of new protections at 3x the value of old ensured the conversion was not in my favor.

[Viking4s 10,791]

Did the LGC paints purchased (example Africa) get credited for their full value (300,000 crystals) during the conversion?

If I had - from all my triple-modules - 3 versions of Thunder at 43% and 3 versions of Shaft at 43%, etc... all I ended up with at end was 43% for each of those.  The evaluating of new protections at 3x the value of old ensured the conversion was not in my favor.

No the cost of the paint is not counted as you still have it.

 

"The evaluating of new protections at 3x the value of old ensured the conversion was not in my favor."  The sum of your new module cost more than the sum of the old one.

[wolverine848 13,097]

No the cost of the paint is not counted as you still have it.

 

"The evaluating of new protections at 3x the value of old ensured the conversion was not in my favor."  The sum of your new module cost more than the sum of the old one.

1) The players paid for the protection on LGC... the paint was a throw-in before separation.

This is what I was referring to wrt "secret formula".  So for Africa, what was the "value" a player would have received for their module?

Let's consider a stock one to keep it simple.

 

2) A circular argument.

Of course the "new modules" cost more than what I paid for - since TO multiplied the cost after I paid.   #mafiaaccounting?

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

Haven't read the details but I think if you had a Legacy module, the module was worth 0 for Tanki because the paint took the whole value when they separated the paints and modules. That's why they say that you have that value in the paints you still have.

 

The equivalent in real life would be when you sell someone a bike, then go to this person's house and you separate the the seat from the rest of the bike, then come back days later take the bike and give them bananas in exchange, and if he complains you tell him that he still has the seat which is worth as the whole bike was at one time in the past. Moral: Don't complain, have a seat and eat a banana... one every minute.

 

Now what I don't know is if they took the value of the MUs of the Legacy modules into the conversion equation.

 

 

PS: I wrote this mostly for entertainment purposes. ; )

 

ANY chance TO will give us all a free weekend with free drones and unlimited batteries to find out how to use them and enjoy them and maybe get hooked on them thus increasing use and sales? :D

Check the test server.

Edited June 11, 2018 by r_Issimo2

[Viking4s 10,791]

1) The players paid for the protection on LGC... the paint was a throw-in before separation.

This is what I was referring to wrt "secret formula".  So for Africa, what was the "value" a player would have received for their module?

Let's consider a stock one to keep it simple.

 

2) A circular argument.

Of course the "new modules" cost more than what I paid for - since TO multiplied the cost after I paid.   #mafiaaccounting?

The cost of the Mu. Africa fully Mued cost 900 k crystals, did you had it fully Mued?

No mafia accounting but the flexibility increased which is as valuable as a triple module.

[wolverine848 13,097]

The cost of the Mu. Africa fully Mued cost 900 k crystals, did you had it fully Mued?

No mafia accounting but the flexibility increased which is as valuable as a triple module.

Nah... didn't have Africa - had some other "lesser" ones Loam and Cherry [gave me an m1 Vulcan module after conversion - no point in upgrading that].

 

Wanted to use stock Africa so it would be a simple example... players paid 300k for it.  Hopefully they received ~ 300k value for it as at that time as only a few select buyers might have paid anything over 30k for a paint sans protection.

 

For example Cherry paint sits in my garage and never gets used. I wouldn't pay even 20k for it. I wanted it for the protection it offered.

Did I get > 100k value on that for conversion?

[Viking4s 10,791]

Nah... didn't have Africa - had some other "lesser" ones Loam and Cherry [gave me an m1 Vulcan module after conversion - no point in upgrading that].

 

Wanted to use stock Africa so it would be a simple example... players paid 300k for it.  Hopefully they received ~ 300k value for it as at that time as only a few select buyers might have paid anything over 30k for a paint sans protection.

 

For example Cherry paint sits in my garage and never gets used. I wouldn't pay even 20k for it. I wanted it for the protection it offered.

Did I get > 100k value on that for conversion?

What a shame Cherry is a beautiful paint. And you are right this is going in circle.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Let's us not talk about all the players whom had the overall old module value below the value of the new module system. Let's not say that they had a pretty good bargain with this update.

 

Players with a weak module protection system benefited hugely from this update. However the new single flexible modules are expensive, so their gain against strong players is still limited. They will still have to spend many crystals in the future to catch up with other players who had many modules to start with. So good bargain but still a long way to full protection.

 

The players with many modules don't have now to spend that much money anymore to complete the full set of protection, therefore they keep their advantage 1/ by a wider module combining and 2/ by using these spare crystals to other use such as turrets and hulls MUing.

 

The power play/balance/investment is preserved, in some case it is better in some case it is less, but it is marginal as overall the hierarchy remains.

 

The magic conversion formula your are suggesting to make everyone happy is an utopia, whatever solution you come up with will never satisfy anybody -  players still have the mindset about complaining (not all of them ofc). 

This is a false choice: I never suggested TO could have made everyone happy. I am suggesting it'd be possible to make more people happier than what happened.

 

Your points made above are valid but they do not cover the entire spectrum of concern.  I have two accounts one rank apart in the two situations so I know exactly what the differences are.  I know how much my low-protection guy will have to spend to get what the account one rank above already owns.  (2.5 million is the answer). So no, I do not see my lower rank catching up to my higher rank in terms of protection.  But that sort of this was not my concern.

 

What I am talking about is pure economics. I have one account that owned 5 triple m2 modules and the mine all at 35%. That is very little redundant coverage "wasted". That account now owns modules (in the current system) worth about 2.6x moe than what I padi for it.  I got new items at the old prices.

 

Compare me to some schmuck who had 13 triple modules and another half dozen legacy modules.  They too now own all 14 protections at the highest level they had previously.  But they get noting more than me who just barelky cleared the wire. Why?  Because these players are getting the new equipment but are forced to pay the new prices retroactively.

 

Why does this matter?  Because if the schmuck above had spent his Cry differntly he would NOT pay the prices retroactively.  If our schmuck had bought just enough modules for coverage, like my account did, that would have left him with millions of Cry to invest instead in hulls and turrets and mu them.  

 

This is sort of like claiming players have to be clairvoyant to play.  "Well, you should have known prices woulr triple two years from now. If you spent that Cry on hulls instead we'd let you keep your investments".

 

You cannot tell me it is impossible to think up a system that does not have such lopsided effects frok player to player.

[Viking4s 10,791]

This is a false choice [...]

there is no choice