Is CTF still a 'team' game?

[redlinezak 11]

Since the change of battle fund distribution I have noticed an increase in people not actually bothering to worry about capping flags etc.

A lot of the time a stronger team will not even bother to cap but will continue to spawn kill at the enemy base now.

I think this is largely due to the fact the even a 'losing team' can get a higher battle fund dependent on their own score.

 

On a positive note if my team starts to lose (goes a couple of flags down) I can continue to camp and try and take as many kills as possible to retain a decent fund at the end.

 

This does however seem to have taken away the desire to win a battle which was what made this format so much fun.

 

I realise getting all these variables to work is difficult but i do think the battle fund distribution needs a minor rethink.

[Maf 32,300]

Random CTF never really was a team game. Standard battles have always been full of people who either don't know how to play, don't care about playing well or have bad lag/low fps, etc. In most team battles it's every man for himself, and it has been like that long before the fund distribution change.

[DestrotankF1 52]

I can see what you mean, but personally I disagree. You still get many benefits to winning, you do get a higher number of crystals on the winning team, and it's also important to win if you want to complete the "get top 3 of the winning side mission" etc, so there is a good incentive still to win. Also under the new fund system you get proportionally more score (and more crystals) it would seem for capturing flags than under the old system, as I found myself when I tried to spawn camp. Even when I got 50 -1 and the highest k/d by far on the winning team, I found capping flags gave me more score. So personally I don't see a problem with it.

Also the new fund distribution is very important especially with matchmaking, if you are on the losing side you can still get a decent number of crystals, and now that you can no longer choose battles that you would have a good chance of winning, this is CRITICAL. The old system was very bad in my opinion, even if you put in a great performance if you had a bad team you got very few crystals, and this encouraged people to quit the game immediately they sensed their team was losing, which was terrible and one of the worst things about Tanki.

I am very glad to the new scoring system and I certainly wouldn't want the game to return anywhere close to the old, the only problems it has at the minute in my opinion are not with CTF, but with CP and Isida:

1) Under the new system 3+ or even sometimes just 2 players capping a point at the same time can get no score reward for it, which is just silly and removes incentive for capping points.

2) Isida gets vastly less score for healing for some reason, which is silly and encourages Isidas not to heal. Being the only healers in Tanki it was always important that they were encouraged to heal their team, this greatly reduces incentive for teamwork.

Edited July 2, 2018 by DestrotankF1

[redlinezak 11]

Random CTF never really was a team game. Standard battles have always been full of people who either don't know how to play, don't care about playing well or have bad lag/low fps, etc. In most team battles it's every man for himself, and it has been like that long before the fund distribution change.

I get your point Maf but even if it was every man for himself there was still an overwhelming desire to win the battle.  That was what seems to have gone..

[splitterpoint 10,986]

Personally I never cared for the team. I want good scores and rewards as individual though. That didn't change with the new fund distribution.

 

Team spirit grows as you play for longer in the same battle because there's more to lose. Players are mainly fund driven. I haven't noticed a big difference between the previous fund distribution and now.

 

What I used to do was leave the match instantly when the team was losing. Being on the losing side gave you nothing but a miserable time for a miserable reward.

 

The new funds motivates losing teams to stay in the battle and keep playing to get good scores (again as individual)

[Maf 32,300]

I get your point Maf but even if it was every man for himself there was still an overwhelming desire to win the battle.  That was what seems to have gone..

I would disagree. Most battles I was in recently had both teams actively going for the objective. I feel like even if the rewards were completely identical for winning and losing teams, players would still strive to win since it's human nature to be competitive.

[SporkZilla 1,775]

I still play to win with the new battle fund distribution because I still get more crystals.

 

I'll lose interest in the objectives in CTF / RGB / ASL (only play red on ASL) and start going for kills if I think the battle is lost, but under the old battle fund distribution I would have quit.

 

I quit with the new distribution if me and most of my team starts getting spawn killed. Can't score, staying is pointless.

 

It is sad that those really intense battles are less likely to happen, but I don't miss the terror of losing (crystals) at all.

Edited July 2, 2018 by SporkZilla

[redlinezak 11]

Good input guys and some points i hadn't considered.

 

I totally agree that the increased battle funds for the losing team helps keep players in the battle just i personally feel that a little bit of the teamwork has gone but that is just my opinion.

 

Cheers

[Viking4s 10,791]

I get your point Maf but even if it was every man for himself there was still an overwhelming desire to win the battle.  That was what seems to have gone..

If it was the case then they would not have that many battle with running tankers from the losing team. 

When I give up (pause) it's mainly because spawn killing happens and the other team is not capping the last flag.

[thunderousrailgunner 1,934]

Basically I see the present CTF as this,

"How to be cooperative in 10 minutes with person you don't even know"

So far, i haven't been able to cooperate with anyone..but i eventually i guess i will get there  :huh: 

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Technically, yes, but it is very hard to cooperate with a group of people you will only know for about 10 minutes. 

[GorgoBlesk 831]

I was in Forest CTF yesterday and guess what happened. I was using Hunter Ricochet, my teammates cleaned the enemy base and I took a flag and ran away. One of my teammates was in the way and gave me overdrive. When I was getting to our base, enemy Viking with full supplies jumped from the upper ground and took the flag. One of my teammates blocked him, I went to our flag point and 2 enemies started to damage me. My teammates killed the Viking, returned the flag and I captured it just a second before I got killed. That was such a great teamwork!

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

No. Capping flags is hard, and usually it requires drugs or lots of teamwork, so no one caps flags. Or some buyer will steamroll the lother team. This is why I prefer Rugby for now: scoring goals is easier than capping flags, so there is actually some incentive to work as a team.

Edited July 2, 2018 by ThirdOnion

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

I assume at Legend rank it's worse because gaining EXP is beneficial. So my suggestion is that for that rank the battle fund distribution be like 70-30 and not like 55-45 that looks like it is today.

 

The other problem for CTF is the new Earn Score missions, there are those that block you to take the flag for the Earn Score mission and Capture Flag mission.

[u812ic 1,629]

I haven't played much CTF, lately, but I do play CP quite a lot. I've been in a few battles where the CP battlefield belonged to the opposing team and the losing team played TDM instead of trying to overturn the map. Nearly the entire team would respawn, go right past an enemy's CP point and never stop to change it. 

 

In one such battle the MM put me in, the score gap was ridiculous and I was on the losing team. Since my team was keeping the opposing team busy, I took the opportunity to change the CPs. Unfortunately, my team wasn't the best at TDM and got killed rather quickly. While they were respawning, the opposing team would regroup, kill me and change the CPs back. I didn't do any of the killing, except to defend myself the best I could (3 against 1). I managed to close the gap considerably, but my score was in the bottom half while the ones playing TDM made higher scores. 

 

I think part of the reason there has been such a great turn in attitude is not only the raise in individual funds (which I feel is long overdue) but the fact we can no longer stay and play the next battle together and the battles have been reduced from 15 minutes to 10 minutes. That's where a lot of the teamwork came into play. It was like giving the losing team a second chance. Many times the losing team would ban together in teamwork and win the second time around. I found the second battle more exciting and more challenging than the first and the score would be a lot closer. Yeah, yeah, I know. You can do that in Pro battles. But so many of those take 2 (120 minutes)-3 (180 minutes) hours to complete. I've seen a few 6 hour (360 minutes) battles. By that time, most players are mentally exhausted and don't want to play another long battle right away and don't stick around for a second try. Sometimes I wonder if the creator stopped to think how long a 360 minute battle is. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I've not seen anything like ppl eschewing flag caps.

 

Ha! You don't get to use 'eschew' every day.

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

I've not seen anything like ppl eschewing flag caps.

 

Ha! You don't get to use 'eschew' every day.

That's the type of SAT vocab word that I must have forgotten. 

[u812ic 1,629]

I just left a CTF battle. I was on the losing team and as far as I'm concerned, they deserved to lose. Map: Highways. Most of the players sat at base waiting for the Gold Box to drop while the other team waltzed off with with our flag. Some made a concerted effort to kill the flag bearer, but if the flag bearer didn't die....Oh Well. But when the siren sounded, they all woke up, went for the Gold Box, tried to kill whatever enemy was in the vicinity, died, respawned and waited for the next drop. Pathetic, really pathetic. 

 

I went to the enemy base by myself 3 times, killed the guards, grabbed the flag, loaded a SB. But even with a Titan, it's hard to fight off 3 attackers. If I had team support, we could have made those 3 flags. With my Vulcan, the enemy was fairly easy to kill. Maybe I should have stayed and played DM. 

[thijs-p 54]

perhaps it is because the people in tanki online can not communicate with each other

 

I've responded to this before (like many others) see this -----------------> http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=334233&page=3

 

unfortunately it is not possible to force players to team

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Good input guys and some points i hadn't considered.

 

I totally agree that the increased battle funds for the losing team helps keep players in the battle just i personally feel that a little bit of the teamwork has gone but that is just my opinion.

 

Cheers

I have seen nothing to suggest this. I see the same thing I saw before MM. There are good players and there are a considerable number of high ranking players who are actually quite poor at playing TO. MM has had nothing to do with this. If you want to find a culprit, my suggestion is the Gold Box for the single biggest negative influence on team effort.

 

Basically I see the present CTF as this,

"How to be cooperative in 10 minutes with person you don't even know"

So far, i haven't been able to cooperate with anyone..but i eventually i guess i will get there  :huh: 

You find a team mate who does not suffer from cranial-rectal inversion and work with them. One way of communicating team intent is to share your OD. Example. Last night a team mates freeze was near. I think he was hurt by not sure I remember that right. Whatever, I used my OD on us both. He went off to attack towards the right. I went left around a terrain feature. I arrived to hit the enemy freeze was fighting from the flank. He got it instantly. We went left/right twice more in two more attacks.  We just finished off our 4th or 5th when sure enough: Freeze got his OD. I saw him drive over to me, and zap. We were both healed up and ready to do it again.  Which we did, l/r two more times before we were finally dragged down.

 

These are the moments TO is great. When you know you've found yourself on a team of aware players.

 

No. Capping flags is hard, and usually it requires drugs or lots of teamwork, so no one caps flags. Or some buyer will steamroll the lother team. This is why I prefer Rugby for now: scoring goals is easier than capping flags, so there is actually some incentive to work as a team.

The mind boggles? Goals in Rugby easier than capping flags?  Flags are sometimes undefended but the ball is always held by someone. A team mate might pass it to you but the other guys are a bit stroppy about giving it up. :)

 

Capping flags is a bit of a specialized skill. I shouldn't say flag capping. It is more the case of being the first tank "over the top" in an assault to bust a defense that knows you are coming. And if you are such a player you stop trying if your team mates don't follow up on the disruption you put on the defense. The point tank usually dies so team mates need to follow up ito carry the attack. If you get too many ppl that do not follow up eventually the few attackers quit sacrificing themselves

That's the type of SAT vocab word that I must have forgotten. 

Words I've not used in a decade sometimes just pop into my mind unbidden. It's just something my brain does to me. :)

Edited July 4, 2018 by LittleWillie

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

Random CTF never really was a team game. Standard battles have always been full of people who either don't know how to play, don't care about playing well or have bad lag/low fps, etc. In most team battles it's every man for himself, and it has been like that long before the fund distribution change.

I disagree, most of the random CTFs I played before the MM and BD updates people played more like a team (multi tank squads making a play for the flag, Isidas actually healing, people bothering to try and defend) but lately it doesn't seem more than tdm with a optional objective, it's also say more one sided imo with Battle groups most of the team battles I go into almost always have a group of higher ranked players who stick together and dominate on the team why the other ( typically my team ) runs around like idiots and gets slaughtered