A Happy Meta is a Light Hull Meta - Light Hulls Suck

[GorgoBlesk 831]

the problem isnt that light hulls are weak, but medium hulls, (particularly viking) are way to powerful and popular.

 

the safest route for players now is to just equip viking because it at least will be proficient in any map. in other words, it hardly requires any skill to use. [/color]

Viking is easy to use because of low height and high speed. These 2 parametres make it good with turrets like Fire, Freeze, Isida, Twins and Rico. The last 2 are best with Viking. However, low height of Viking and Hornet make them harder to hull swing so it is sometimes a disadvantage. Hunter is better with turrets like Hammer, Smoky and Thunder.

 

In my opinion, Viking and Hunter are perfectly balanced but Dictator is useless with short and medium range guns so it needs a buff. I think it needs to be smaller.

[NatchGa 665]

Viking is easy to use because of low height and high speed. These 2 parametres make it good with turrets like Fire, Freeze, Isida, Twins and Rico. The last 2 are best with Viking. However, low height of Viking and Hornet make them harder to hull swing so it is sometimes a disadvantage. Hunter is better with turrets like Hammer, Smoky and Thunder.

 

In my opinion, Viking and Hunter are perfectly balanced but Dictator is useless with short and medium range guns so it needs a buff. I think it needs to be smaller.

I dont believe in "this turret goes best with this hull" I believe that any turret can be mounted on any hull and do extremely well as long as the player is skilled. Labeling turrets to ONLY do well on certain hulls is harmful to gameplay. 

 

I agree that dictator needs a buff, there is a reason why nobody uses dictator anymore and the developers need to act on that. However I dont think that shrinking the hull physically is such a good idea, maybe nerfing hunter and viking so players are more willing to use dictator. Or give dictator an armor buff, making it the missing link between medium and heavy hulls. 

[Potdindy 866]

I dont believe in "this turret goes best with this hull" I believe that any turret can be mounted on any hull and do extremely well as long as the player is skilled. Labeling turrets to ONLY do well on certain hulls is harmful to gameplay. 

 

 maybe nerfing hunter and viking so players are more willing to use dictator.

I agree with nerfing Viking especially. I watched an esports hardcore battle and literally every single player was using viking...that is a problem.

 

As for which turrets go with which hull, the combo is very important. Fire and mamoth is an obviously bad combo in most cases for example. Between medium hulls, close range turrets do better with Viking because the speed allows them to close the distance quickly. I like Hunter more with Rail/Smoky/Thunder because it doesnt get pushed around by impact turrets as much. Viking still could use a bit of an hp nerf tho...Hunter is probably okay.

 

I would suggest that "Best of both worlds" is not good. Maybe since you get a balanced hull, you should lose some overall strength. Meaning, lets say light hulls are 10 on speed but 1 on hp, while heavy hulls are 1 of speed and 10 on hp. Medium hulls shouldn't be 6 on both...maybe 4-5 would be better. You give up overall ability in return for being able to do everything

Edited August 9, 2018 by Potdindy

[wolverine848 13,097]

I agree with nerfing Viking especially. I watched an esports hardcore battle and literally every single player was using viking...that is a problem.

 

As for which turrets go with which hull, the combo is very important. Fire and mamoth is an obviously bad combo in most cases for example. Between medium hulls, close range turrets do better with Viking because the speed allows them to close the distance quickly. I like Hunter more with Rail/Smoky/Thunder because it doesnt get pushed around by impact turrets as much. Viking still could use a bit of an hp nerf tho...Hunter is probably okay.

 

I would suggest that "Best of both worlds" is not good. Maybe since you get a balanced hull, you should lose some overall strength. Meaning, lets say light hulls are 10 on speed but 1 on hp, while heavy hulls are 1 of speed and 10 on hp. Medium hulls shouldn't be 6 on both...maybe 4-5 would be better. You give up overall ability in return for being able to do everything

Here's the ratios on Health / speed

2000 / 12

3000 / 9.5

4000 / 6

Seems bang on to me.  Change any of those stats in favor of one hull and it becomes unbalanced.

 

Perhaps giving hulls with less armor better acceleration is key.  I don't think it works correctly as is.

[Potdindy 866]

Here's the ratios on Health / speed

2000 / 12

3000 / 9.5

4000 / 6

Seems bang on to me.  Change any of those stats in favor of one hull and it becomes unbalanced.

 

Perhaps giving hulls with less armor better acceleration is key.  I don't think it works correctly as is.

 

If the numbers you give are correct, notice the 9.5 speed on, I'm assuming Viking M4. Hunter/Dictator actually feel balanced, so maybe my gripe is just with Viking.

 

Acceleration: I like that idea. When I first started playing TO, I thought that the idea of light hulls was to zip in and out dodging shots. While that is somewhat possible, most times you drive in and get lit up. xpbp battles would require even more skill if dodging was more possible. Wasp's acceleration is terribad, so, many time I run in, turn around, and get crushed because it takes so long to switch directions despitre being a tiny hull

[NatchGa 665]

I agree with nerfing Viking especially. I watched an esports hardcore battle and literally every single player was using viking...that is a problem.

 

As for which turrets go with which hull, the combo is very important. Fire and mamoth is an obviously bad combo in most cases for example. Between medium hulls, close range turrets do better with Viking because the speed allows them to close the distance quickly. I like Hunter more with Rail/Smoky/Thunder because it doesnt get pushed around by impact turrets as much. Viking still could use a bit of an hp nerf tho...Hunter is probably okay.

 

I would suggest that "Best of both worlds" is not good. Maybe since you get a balanced hull, you should lose some overall strength. Meaning, lets say light hulls are 10 on speed but 1 on hp, while heavy hulls are 1 of speed and 10 on hp. Medium hulls shouldn't be 6 on both...maybe 4-5 would be better. You give up overall ability in return for being able to do everything

The hull is basically being abused, and there will be a lot of backlash from the community however when the devs decide to nerf it. 

 

your talking to someone who usually mains with isida and mammoth in every battle. I personally think mammy and firebird is a lovely combo, if you use it correctly. look at the xp/bp community, some of those players are so used to using rail and hornet that its they're go to combo for every battle, now, is it statistically speaking a "good combination"? not really, but the player has gotten so used to using that combo, that they do better with it than with anything else. 

[Potdindy 866]

The hull is basically being abused, and there will be a lot of backlash from the community however when the devs decide to nerf it. 

 

your talking to someone who usually mains with isida and mammoth in every battle. I personally think mammy and firebird is a lovely combo, if you use it correctly. look at the xp/bp community, some of those players are so used to using rail and hornet that its they're go to combo for every battle, now, is it statistically speaking a "good combination"? not really, but the player has gotten so used to using that combo, that they do better with it than with anything else. 

Yes...of course I run into the one isida mammoth character. Your point is well taken though, except about the xpbp part...I love seeing enemy xp players...yummy. As for backlash...they just buffed a turret and then nerfed it, so clearly backlash isnt a concern of theirs

[wolverine848 13,097]

If the numbers you give are correct, notice the 9.5 speed on, I'm assuming Viking M4. Hunter/Dictator actually feel balanced, so maybe my gripe is just with Viking.

 

Acceleration: I like that idea. When I first started playing TO, I thought that the idea of light hulls was to zip in and out dodging shots. While that is somewhat possible, most times you drive in and get lit up. xpbp battles would require even more skill if dodging was more possible. Wasp's acceleration is terribad, so, many time I run in, turn around, and get crushed because it takes so long to switch directions despitre being a tiny hull

Yes - the 9.5 is Viking. 

That 0.5 (difference from Hunter) is almost negligible.  And is offset by fact that most impact shots rock Viking like a cradle.

 

I think tweaking acceleration will make a big difference in how hulls are used / perform.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Here's the ratios on Health / speed

2000 / 12

3000 / 9.5

4000 / 6

 

M4 Titan has 6,5 speed. Players with Mammoth usually camp all the time and attack only with overdrive.

[Strikechard123 241]

why use light hulls when they can't be used at all, with the 1 shots and flips

[nrvus 31]

People don't like playing a game where you have to spend a minute trying to kill an enemy because all they see are heavy tanks and medium tanks everywhere. You practically see no light hulls anymore except for the occassional isida or that noob XP/BP guy. This is not healthy for the game.

 

People WANT to kill light hulls because it's easy and quick. If everyone believes light hulls are really good, then they use light hulls, then everyone will have fun killing light hulls. 

 

An m3 light hull right now has about the same health as an m0 heavy hull, which SUUCKS. It's just faster, which doesn't do anything because you are probably dead before you fully accelerate. Step on a mine, insta-dead. Find an enemy not light hull, insta-dead. 

 

We need a light hull meta again but I think light hulls need to be stronger. Maybe more speed, weight, and some armor would help. 

True, true, but when you're having a great day with a light hull, it's the bast.  A skilled noob XP or BP player can own the battle in spite of the fact that rail hasn't been buffed for a while... I think the days that I get killed over and over are an acceptable problem because when I'm having a good day it's so much fun.  Full disclosure: I use heavily hulls almost exclusively with this account but run light hulls exclusively in another account..  Cheers.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

M0 Wasp and Hornet: 1000 hp

 

M1 Wasp: 1344

M1 Hornet: 1450

 

M2 Wasp:1753

M2 Hornet: 1600

 

M3 Wasp and Hornet: 2000

 

M4 Wasp and Hornet: 2350

[Delta_Rail 142]

M0 Wasp and Hornet: 1000 hp

 

M1 Wasp: 1344

M1 Hornet: 1450

 

M2 Wasp:1753

M2 Hornet: 1600

 

M3 Wasp and Hornet: 2000

 

M4 Wasp and Hornet: 2350

Fun Fact: Titan M0 has as much HP as M3 Wasp and Hornet

[Delta_Rail 142]

Viking is easy to use because of low height and high speed. These 2 parametres make it good with turrets like Fire, Freeze, Isida, Twins and Rico. The last 2 are best with Viking. However, low height of Viking and Hornet make them harder to hull swing so it is sometimes a disadvantage. Hunter is better with turrets like Hammer, Smoky and Thunder.

 

In my opinion, Viking and Hunter are perfectly balanced but Dictator is useless with short and medium range guns so it needs a buff. I think it needs to be smaller.

dictators trash-ness is made up for with a lot of weight and power compared to multiple hulls, increased height, and the ability to climb onto hulls without effort, basically, if you like goldboxes, get a dictator

[Strikechard123 241]

Noobctator, it lags out of everything while having stability, also it is ugly

[SplashGun 22]

Wasp is the most fun hull to use.  It requires quite a lot of skill to use it effectively with any turret.  With wasp only the speed and 

your driving skills are your protection.  Wasps work well at least with close range turrets, thunder, smoky, rail and also with twins.  It is  maybe the best hull to cause chaos at enemy while driving around with fire, thunder or twins and keeping 2 to 4 enemies busy with you while others steal enemy flag.  It is a pity though that they nerfed  wasp some time ago, it is not as agile as it used to be.

Edited August 26, 2018 by SplashGun

[austen_pierce 1,948]

IMO light hull usability in MM battles suffers because of crowded maps and over exposed areas within those maps. Light hulls just can’t survive with turrets designed to take out medium hulls and keep heavy hulls from seeming immortal. And in any given MM battle, turrets are dealing a lot of damage.

 

My suggestion is to redesign maps to have areas safe for small light hulls. Like long narrow tunnels or ramps impassable by larger tanks. Future has some of these in the central building, but it’s not useful enough.

[xIninjamaster713Ix 0]

I think removing mines would be a good start, for light hulls

[GorgoBlesk 831]

I think removing mines would be a good start, for light hulls

Good idea. Then remove RK, SB, DD and DA xD

[wolverine848 13,097]

IMO light hull usability in MM battles suffers because of crowded maps and over exposed areas within those maps. Light hulls just can’t survive with turrets designed to take out medium hulls and keep heavy hulls from seeming immortal. And in any given MM battle, turrets are dealing a lot of damage.

 

My suggestion is to redesign maps to have areas safe for small light hulls. Like long narrow tunnels or ramps impassable by larger tanks. Future has some of these in the central building, but it’s not useful enough.

I agree - the crowded maps are one of the largest reasons light hulls suffer.

 

Forcing 8 vs 8 on all MM maps is a mistake. 16 tanks on Highland or the "new" Sandbox?  :huh:

 

maybe if they re-added maps like Skylark it would not be so bad.  Light hulls can thrive on that map.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

I agree - the crowded maps are one of the largest reasons light hulls suffer.

 

Forcing 8 vs 8 on all MM maps is a mistake. 16 tanks on Highland or the "new" Sandbox? :huh:

 

maybe if they re-added maps like Skylark it would not be so bad. Light hulls can thrive on that map.

I actually like the new MM Sandbox. It is really good for my M2 Titan Rico. Spawn, rush, use DD, shoot, kill, die, repeat.

[Potdindy 866]

I have found if you want to use light hulls, pay no supply battles. I have reverted back to them and am finding my wasp to be great again. Also, if you play no supplies on a big map, light hulls are a must. No more using speed boost to get your titan to the front quickly...you use Titan and you will play defense only

[wolverine848 13,097]

I actually like the new MM Sandbox. It is really good for my M2 Titan Rico. Spawn, rush, use DD, shoot, kill, die, repeat.

It's still somewhat of a mosh-pit - but - heavy hulls are built for that.  Light hulls?  Not so much...

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Good idea. Then remove RK, SB, DD and DA xD

And then the game itself :ph34r:

[Guest]

I have found if you want to use light hulls, pay no supply battles. I have reverted back to them and am finding my wasp to be great again. Also, if you play no supplies on a big map, light hulls are a must. No more using speed boost to get your titan to the front quickly...you use Titan and you will play defense only

I've always found light hulls on big maps an odd combo for it. To be honest, everyone's using long-range weapons that one shot me on those maps, so I actually don't understand why I should go with those.