Thunder vs. Vulcan

[u812ic 1,629]

My problem with the "new and improved" Vulcan is not the killing or damage made. It's the extra time it takes to fire a shot. A lot can happen in a second or two. I see Firebird/Wasp/Hornet coming, I start to fire up my Vulcan. Firebird has destroyed me before I can get off the first shot. Whereas, before, I could at least get off some damage shots before being destroyed. When in the heat of battle when the enemy is invading our territory, I feel by the time Vulcan is geared up to fire, I could have eaten lunch, taken a nap, played with the dogs or did the dishes. 

 

Before I knew of the "improvement" I thought I was having a terrible lag. First thing I noticed was the barrel turning much slower. 

 

Well, I guess we have to live with it, for the Devs are the aggressors and we are the victims, all by prior agreement. We are at their mercy and all we can do is say, Thank you, thank you, thank you for the inconvenience or quit the game. Some choice. Personally, I'm on the fence and leaning towards the quitting side. 

[sezze100 416]

I agree with MAF being not as bad as you think it is . Sure you have to adapt to the new vulcan , but the biggest difference is the much higher strength at larger distance . Before , once you got to medium range , the damage rapidly fell , while i feel now the damage at these distances is still very big . Plenty to kill all tanks who do not have a module running .

The problem is when you want to use it for closer encounters and there the extra buff in power does not compensate the loss in turnup speed + turret rotation which are both rediculous slow .

Now with the change you have to adapt and this means , no more close encounters so forget vulcan in small maps ( or maps like Iran ) .

Since i tested the m1 alt , i know i can get my turret rotation back to where it was and i guess with the m2 alt , you can get the turnup back also and only lose little firing power to before .

Fitting both alts now makes sence ... while before i felt them being totally useless .

 

BTW , the gyro does not excist anymore since long time .

[wolverine848 13,097]

I agree with MAF being not as bad as you think it is . Sure you have to adapt to the new vulcan , but the biggest difference is the much higher strength at larger distance . Before , once you got to medium range , the damage rapidly fell , while i feel now the damage at these distances is still very big . Plenty to kill all tanks who do not have a module running .

The problem is when you want to use it for closer encounters and there the extra buff in power does not compensate the loss in turnup speed + turret rotation which are both rediculous slow .

Now with the change you have to adapt and this means , no more close encounters so forget vulcan in small maps ( or maps like Iran ) .

Since i tested the m1 alt , i know i can get my turret rotation back to where it was and i guess with the m2 alt , you can get the turnup back also and only lose little firing power to before .

Fitting both alts now makes sence ... while before i felt them being totally useless .

 

BTW , the gyro does not excist anymore since long time .

Thing is, I never had issues using Vulcan at long distance - the 50% "weak" damage ensured it did well even on the longest maps.

 

And problem with close encounters is - we can't choose our maps.  Get placed in IZ, Iran or Sandal and Vulcan will struggle greatly. The longer overheat time serves no purpose when targets can disappear in a couple of seconds.

 

I don't understand why they made such drastic changes to Vulcan - this was unnecessary.  All it needed was a tweak for overheating.

But then maybe they did it so we would be "encouraged" to spend more crystals on the alterations.

 

Sure Vulcan can work great on wider-open maps.  But it lost a lot of flexibility IMO.  Especially at lower ranks where spin-up is crippling and players can't afford to get alteration due to rank or funds.

[Delta_Rail 142]

Thunder is utter trash due to so many modules popping up, its only good if you have DD against a tank without protection

[Reddkuest 76]

 

EDIT: 1 battle?  Yeah - I've played > 12 battles with "new" Vulcan, on different maps. Useless on a lot of those maps and might as well just exit when placed there.

I am sorry but that argument isn't a valid point, it is true of many turrets. This from a Shaft player also having to deal with MM.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I am sorry but that argument isn't a valid point, it is true of many turrets. This from a Shaft player also having to deal with MM.

Doesn't take you 3 seconds to get off your first shot though does it.   ;)   At least Shaft has a secondary fire mode.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Thunder is utter trash due to so many modules popping up, its only good if you have DD against a tank without protection

I don't think it's as bad as you claim it is. It does however perform better on some hulls than it does on others.

[Reddkuest 76]

Doesn't take you 3 seconds to get off your first shot though does it.   ;)   At least Shaft has a secondary fire mode.

No, it takes more time to get a shot at full strenght, also having to stand exposed to enemy fire. It's not the point, most turrets are disavantaged on some maps, including Vulcan.

[wolverine848 13,097]

No, it takes more time to get a shot at full strenght, also having to stand exposed to enemy fire. It's not the point, most turrets are disavantaged on some maps, including Vulcan.

I don't use Shaft, but if you're in close-combat, trying to get off a shot "at full strength" and you die, that's on you.

The Shaft has an arcade shot that does almost as much damage as a smoky, but you choose to ignore that?

 

In close quarters, for the time it's takes Vulcan to spin-up...

1) The Vulcan is often killed before shooting 1 bullet

2) an m3 Shaft clan flip on a DD and do over 2000 damage.

 

Some turrets are worse than others in close-combat.  Shaft can at least function with Arcade while Vulcan has been crippled.

[Reddkuest 76]

I don't use Shaft, but if you're in close-combat, trying to get off a shot "at full strength" and you die, that's on you.

The Shaft has an arcade shot that does almost as much damage as a smoky, but you choose to ignore that?

 

No dude, I'm saying that each have advantages and disadvantages, and function better or less on different maps acording to the turret's ability.

 

Since the last nerf, Shaft is now almost useless at mid-long range in between charged shots. I used to finish off targets with arcade, now it sucks at it. Freeze is totally useless at long range. Vulcan is now better at long range and perform less at short. I am taking into account your ability to adapt to the new firing delay and learn to spin your barrels before use.

 

Adapt and learn.

[wolverine848 13,097]

No dude, I'm saying that each have advantages and disadvantages, and function better or less on different maps acording to the turret's ability.

 

Since the last nerf, Shaft is now almost useless at mid-long range in between charged shots. I used to finish off targets with arcade, now it sucks at it. Freeze is totally useless at long range. Vulcan is now better at long range and perform less at short. I am taking into account your ability to adapt to the new firing delay and learn to spin your barrels before use.

 

Adapt and learn.

Shaft almost useless at long range... becuase every time you shoot you think it should be a kill? :o

 

Never mind...

Edited August 23, 2018 by wolverine848

[Reddkuest 76]

You only read what you want to read do you?

[wolverine848 13,097]

You only read what you want to read do you?

You don't seem to understand the difference between "useless" and "advantage".

 

I'm not going to explain it to you - just go google it.

[Reddkuest 76]

And yet, some turrets are totally useless at long range, Vulcan is no good at short, so? You're just complaining because one of your toy doesn't work as it used to, deal with it.

 

And btw, you may spin all you like that Shaft arcade shot at short range is almost as good as Smoky - keyword is almost, Smoky, and all other close/mid range turrets violate Shaft at short range, there is no contest.

 

Vulcan are very good on some maps, especially in Low Gravity mode, enough with the whining.

[Delta_Rail 142]

And yet, some turrets are totally useless at long range, Vulcan is no good at short, so? You're just complaining because one of your toy doesn't work as it used to, deal with it.

 

And btw, you may spin all you like that Shaft arcade shot at short range is almost as good as Smoky - keyword is almost, Smoky, and all other close/mid range turrets violate Shaft at short range, there is no contest.

 

Vulcan are very good on some maps, especially in Low Gravity mode, enough with the whining.

Most people play MM and it doesnt have low gravity mode .-.

[Reddkuest 76]

Most people play MM and it doesnt have low gravity mode .-.

I was giving one example, stop picking at words...

 

I've seen Vulcans in heavy hull with isida support hold entire flanks or choke point by themselves literally filling the approaching lane with wrecks, which a low dps turret can't do.

 

Maybe the devs will reduce the heat damage but the changes are going to stay, devs are well known not to roll back updates and so called 'balance' patches.

[wolverine848 13,097]

And yet, some turrets are totally useless at long range, Vulcan is no good at short, so? You're just complaining because one of your toy doesn't work as it used to, deal with it.

 

And btw, you may spin all you like that Shaft arcade shot at short range is almost as good as Smoky - keyword is almost, Smoky, and all other close/mid range turrets violate Shaft at short range, there is no contest.

 

Vulcan are very good on some maps, especially in Low Gravity mode, enough with the whining.

There's a difference between "long range" and large maps. Players have the ability to reduce that "long range" to short range via movement.

 

Of course freeze can't damage a rail or shaft from the other side of Kunger or Highways.  And yet that freeze can use cover and RKs and work it's way over to where the shaft is camping, and has the possibility of killing it.

 

My point is when a Vulcan spawns and an enemy is near (maybe due to map-size, or whatever reason) the possibility of that Vulcan fighting back is close to zero - due to the fact it cant even begin to fire for 3 seconds.

 

Even though shaft is not as good as smoky up close it can fight back. Arcade shot doing 600+ damage and 2 seconds later another.

 

And please stick to match-making (no space mode) since in Pro-Battles I can actually pick a vulcan-friendly map. 

My point is not about Vulcan be terrible on every map. It's about Vulcan being crippled completely at close range.

[u812ic 1,629]

I was fine with the performance of Vulcan. All it needed was a heat suppressant. If the Devs wanted to make some money, they could have made it an alteration. 

 

Before the "new and improved" Vulcan, I was using it like Railgun, starting the gearing up process before coming out from behind buildings, walls, etc. Like Railgun, I had it timed. Now, my timing is off and Railgun can reload and get a shot off before my first bullet is delivered. Supposing they added another second of reload to Railgun. Why not? Same difference. Timing would be off, enemy disappears before a shot is made, bigger chance of being destroyed, less chance of defence. 

 

In RGB, I'm usually goaltender. Yesterday, I played RGB on Industrial Zone blue. Because of the extra time it took to gear up my Vulcan, I feel I failed the team. Of course, it would have been a BIG help if someone was tending with me.

Edited August 23, 2018 by u812ic

[GorgoBlesk 831]

No dude, I'm saying that each have advantages and disadvantages, and function better or less on different maps acording to the turret's ability.

 

Since the last nerf, Shaft is now almost useless at mid-long range in between charged shots. I used to finish off targets with arcade, now it sucks at it. Freeze is totally useless at long range. Vulcan is now better at long range and perform less at short. I am taking into account your ability to adapt to the new firing delay and learn to spin your barrels before use.

 

Adapt and learn.

I even switched to Ricochet after Shaft arcade shot nerf. Titan Ricochet is not really the best combo in Tanki but I actually managed to upgrade it to M2 and it is quite powerful (but it needs more drugs than Titan Shaft before nerf).

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Red alert is a popular matchmaking battle. In the time it takes vulcan to start firing, freeze and firebird from the opposite team will already be near your base and those turrets are nowhere near balanced.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Vulcan M3

before "buff" (LMAO)... 476 DPS and spin-up of 1

after "buff" ................. 529 DPS and spin-up of 2.74

 

Some people say ... "all you have to do is spend 100k (50k on sale) and get the MFR Alteration".

 

Let's see...

Spin-up -50%, time-to-overheat +50%, and -25% damage.

529-25% = 529-132 = 397.   Spin-up = 2.74/2 = 1.37      

 

It may take longer to overheat, but net effect is less damage than before the change and still has longer spin-up.

I don't recall seeing many complaints about Vulcan doing too much damage before this change was implemented...

 

These changes were designed to sell more alterations - but in the end you are no better off than before the "buff" (LMAO)

[u812ic 1,629]

Vulcan M3

before "buff" (LMAO)... 476 DPS and spin-up of 1

after "buff" ................. 529 DPS and spin-up of 2.74

 

Some people say ... "all you have to do is spend 100k (50k on sale) and get the MFR Alteration".

 

Let's see...

Spin-up -50%, time-to-overheat +50%, and -25% damage.

529-25% = 529-132 = 397.   Spin-up = 2.74/2 = 1.37      

 

It may take longer to overheat, but net effect is less damage than before the change and still has longer spin-up.

I don't recall seeing many complaints about Vulcan doing too much damage before this change was implemented...

 

These changes were designed to sell more alterations - but in the end you are no better off than before the "buff" (LMAO)

I looked at that , too. By using logic, I came up with the same conclusion. I didn't know how to put it into words, but here you have the math to go with it. 

[Delta_Rail 142]

Vulcan M3

before "buff" (LMAO)... 476 DPS and spin-up of 1

after "buff" ................. 529 DPS and spin-up of 2.74

 

Some people say ... "all you have to do is spend 100k (50k on sale) and get the MFR Alteration".

 

Let's see...

Spin-up -50%, time-to-overheat +50%, and -25% damage.

529-25% = 529-132 = 397.   Spin-up = 2.74/2 = 1.37      

 

It may take longer to overheat, but net effect is less damage than before the change and still has longer spin-up.

I don't recall seeing many complaints about Vulcan doing too much damage before this change was implemented...

 

These changes were designed to sell more alterations - but in the end you are no better off than before the "buff" (LMAO)

You exposed the devs once again, but its unlikely those speds will do anything about it

[Strikechard123 241]

By the time vulcan starts to shoot, thunder has killed 2 or 3 enemies, maybe 4 with double damage 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

By the time vulcan starts to shoot, thunder has killed 2 or 3 enemies, maybe 4 with double damage

 

More like crippled a few enemies but yeah I get where you're going at here.