Devs Love Firebird Hate Freeze

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

For my entire time playing TO, Freeze was only powerful for a month and a half. Meanwhile, Firebird has been very far on the more powerful side of the turret spectrum for pretty much the entire time (except for maybe from December to August 2018). 

 

Now that they are done with rebalancing Firebird and Freeze this year, anyone can notice that they nerfed Freeze so that it's just average (which is perfectly "balanced" if all other turrets in the game were also balanced) and Firebird is still tremendously OP. If you think about it Freeze has been OP for less than 2 months. Firebird will not be rebalanced anytime this year (they already nerfed it a little), so it will be OP for the rest of the year and probably well into next year. 

 

One second of a firebird shooting at me causes my m3 heavy to end up below half health. One second of freezing does not freeze at all. Firebird afterburn lasts for about 10 seconds (it's probably more, but you're probably dead by then) and you also have to take into account that the burn is still taking effect while the Firebird is still shooting. Freeze's freezing doesn't even kick in until around 2 seconds in and isn't viable until 4 seconds. 

 

Firebird's burn is still fairly strong against 35%+ protection modules. Freeze's freezing is literally nonexistant against 35%+ protection modules. 

 

Firebird has always killed freeze for all of TO History except for those 2 months this summer. The only time a Freeze actually wins is if it sneaks behind the firebird. But what are the odds of sneaking behind an enemy firebird when all of the enemies are on the other side of the map? 

 

Remember when Freeze's freezing was usable? What did the devs do it? The nerfed the hell out of it and buffed it's direct enemy, the firebird so that it was completely OP. 

Now, when Firebird's firebird is completely absurd? What did the devs do to it? Only slightly nerf the M0 and M1 firebird's burning effect and nerf it's direct enemy Freeze so that it was average to slightly below average. 

 

Now, as a Freeze player (which i know depreciates much of the value of my argument), I have to face 50% protection modules on every single enemy I face. 

 

I want a longer Freeze Meta. Practically every single turret in the game has had a longer meta than Freeze (except Striker). Firebird has definitely been Meta for an extremely long time. 

 

 

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

I agree that firebird is OP not but Freeze was insanely unfair for awhile cause along with the fact that the damage was bs it freezes you so it was to the point that if one caught you, no matter how many drugs you used or what hulls, you are dead

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

But sensei! The developers want dynamic gameplay and buffing freeze would make gameplay less dynamic! That's why magnum has been broken OP and unchanged for over a year and a half!

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

But sensei! The developers want dynamic gameplay and buffing freeze would make gameplay less dynamic! That's why magnum has been broken OP and unchanged for over a year and a half!

if they lowered the damage on Magnum pretty much at all then people would never use it. besides, I usually only see like one or two per battle anyways

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

if they lowered the damage on Magnum pretty much at all then people would never use it. besides, I usually only see like one or two per battle anyways

True true, but it only takes one or two magnums to ruin a battle for everyone else. Three or four is over kill.

[Guest]

I agree that firebird is OP not but Freeze was insanely unfair for awhile cause along with the fact that the damage was bs it freezes you so it was to the point that if one caught you, no matter how many drugs you used or what hulls, you are dead

I know that Freeze was insanely unfair. But Freeze was only insanely unfair for less than 2 months. From what it appears to be, Firebird will be insanely unfair for about a year from now until they decide to make a balance change. You are also dead no matter what if a firebird shoots you. 

[NatchGa 665]

i agree that freeze needs to be reworked (make freeze effect more potent) but you cant really complain about its damage, as after this whole firebird and freeze update frenzy, in the end, freeze has had its damage increased. the firebird burn time can easily be removed from a well timed repair kit as well. 

[Guest]

i agree that freeze needs to be reworked (make freeze effect more potent) but you cant really complain about its damage, as after this whole firebird and freeze update frenzy, in the end, freeze has had its damage increased. the firebird burn time can easily be removed from a well timed repair kit as well. 

I'm not complaining that Freeze's DPS is UP. I'm complaining that the Devs have favored firebird for so long now that firebird has been in the meta forever and it's more OP now than ever and the moment freeze gets buffed, they quickly nerf it. 

[NatchGa 665]

I'm not complaining that Freeze's DPS is UP. I'm complaining that the Devs have favored firebird for so long now that firebird has been in the meta forever and it's more OP now than ever and the moment freeze gets buffed, they quickly nerf it. 

You do have a point, but unfortunately, its kinda always been like that. It always seems that they are trying to keep the more popular turrets powerful. Firebird being one of them. Along with Railgun, Thunder, and Ricochet...

[Mjro7 2,837]

i'm not sure about your topic title since Development listen to players ideas and do the best in that situation.

they will never update fire and make it OP cause they love it.

 

and i wanted to add that Fire will not beat every Freeze in the game Fire got away to play and also Freeze while Freeze if he start to shoot him and going around him Fire will not have chance to move fast or hit him.

thats an advice try to use it.

 

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

I'm not complaining that Freeze's DPS is UP. I'm complaining that the Devs have favored firebird for so long now that firebird has been in the meta forever and it's more OP now than ever and the moment freeze gets buffed, they quickly nerf it.

if you think firebird is more OP than ever then you never saw it right after they added the Afterburn Alt

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

True true, but it only takes one or two magnums to ruin a battle for everyone else. Three or four is over kill.

not really when the people using them usually have no clue what their doing, Mag is only devestating if it's got constant DD

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I've got to say I disagree. There are lots of notorious buyers / OP tankers and they almost always use freeze in battle. The lack of freeze effect could be because they are using corrosive mix (aka freeze M5) but either way freeze does insane damage.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Now that they are done with rebalancing Firebird and Freeze this year, anyone can notice that they nerfed Freeze so that it's just average (which is perfectly "balanced" if all other turrets in the game were also balanced) and Firebird is still tremendously OP. If you think about it Freeze has been OP for less than 2 months. Firebird will not be rebalanced anytime this year (they already nerfed it a little), so it will be OP for the rest of the year and probably well into next year.

 

One second of a firebird shooting at me causes my m3 heavy to end up below half health. One second of freezing does not freeze at all. Firebird afterburn lasts for about 10 seconds (it's probably more, but you're probably dead by then) and you also have to take into account that the burn is still taking effect while the Firebird is still shooting. Freeze's freezing doesn't even kick in until around 2 seconds in and isn't viable until 4 seconds.

 

Remember when Freeze's freezing was usable? What did the devs do it? The nerfed the hell out of it and buffed it's direct enemy, the firebird

 

Now, as a Freeze player (which i know depreciates much of the value of my argument), I have to face 50% protection modules on every single enemy I face.

 

I want a longer Freeze Meta. Practically every single turret in the game has had a longer meta than Freeze (except Striker). Firebird has definitely been Meta for an extremely long time.

1. Freeze was good after the 30% buff. It was considered OP just because it killed UP Fire. The nerf after it was only 10% so Freeze stayed balanced after the nerf. Fire is as strong as Freeze after the buff. After these changes, both Fire and Freeze are stronger than before.

 

2. Freezing is strong enough to prevent the enemy from running away and enable you to deal full DPS (450-900) which is enough to kill light hulls in 2,22 seconds, medium in 3,33 seconds and heavy in 4,44 seconds. I think that is enough.

 

3. Freezing was not nerfed, only the damage. Firebird was UP before the buff so it needed a buff. Devs chose a weird way to buff it (I would simply buff damage by 10%).

 

4. Players simply do not want to be frozen because it turns them into sitting ducks.

 

5. All turrets should be perfectly balanced, if there should be any meta, it has to be Wasp Rail (BP) because it needs more skill than any other combo.

[Guest]

1. Freeze was good after the 30% buff. It was considered OP just because it killed UP Fire. The nerf after it was only 10% so Freeze stayed balanced after the nerf. Fire is as strong as Freeze after the buff. After these changes, both Fire and Freeze are stronger than before.

 

As a player who uses Freeze as the main combo, Freeze was extremely OP right after the 30% buff, and not because it killed the UP Fire. After Freeze got brought back down to Earth, Freeze's DPS was relatively balanced, just a teeny bit too low for how much charge it has in its energy pool.

2. Freezing is strong enough to prevent the enemy from running away and enable you to deal full DPS (450-900) which is enough to kill light hulls in 2,22 seconds, medium in 3,33 seconds and heavy in 4,44 seconds. I think that is enough.

 

Although Freeze does have the ability to prevent the enemy from running away 95% of the time, M3 Wasps or Hornets with Nitro always gets out of the Freeze's grasp. That said, they are killed almost instantly so there's nothing I can complain about for that. However, Freeze's circling method is non-existant now, it's more of a sneak attack or defend only type weapon.

 

3. Freezing was not nerfed, only the damage. Firebird was UP before the buff so it needed a buff. Devs chose a weird way to buff it (I would simply buff damage by 10%).

 

Nerfing the damage is the same thing as nerfing the Freeze. Firebird definitely need a slight buff but not the way the Devs did it. But the Devs overdid the buff and made it way too powerful to be realistic, also I would like to mention that by buffing Firebird a lot, you are drastically indirectly nerfing Freeze.

4. Players simply do not want to be frozen because it turns them into sitting ducks.

 

Players simply do not want to be burned a teeny-bit because it causes their fate has been sealed. Seriously, what's the whole point of using Freeze if you can't get freeze anyone? I could use that argument for Magnum. Players simply do not want to be shot be Magnum because it kills them from out of the blue. 

5. All turrets should be perfectly balanced, if there should be any meta, it has to be Wasp Rail (BP) because it needs more skill than any other combo.

 

I agree, except for the BP part. I believe that Striker Hornet is the hardest combo to master. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by sensei_tanker

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Firebird right now is actually less OP than the overbuffed Freeze imo. The overbuffed freeze was able to kill as effectively as the current firebird but also take very little damage in return. 

Firebird cannot do the latter, particularly since its normal damage got nerfed, ensuring that even a Railgun can usually turn 180 degrees and get a shot off before dying. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by thesquarerootof2

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Simply said, the Fire buff was quite ironic because it significantly buffed the turret's killing power, yet it also made it EASIER to fight back against it. It's just that you'll die afterwards as well

[u812ic 1,629]

My anti-freeze protection is M2.3. When Freeze hits me I'm useless. My tank won't respond and Vulcan....well the rotation has been nerfed anyway, but it freezes up, too. So, don't tell me Freeze is an underachiever. If I'm hit from the side or back all I can do is sit there and die. I don't even try to defend myself anymore. You want some kill points? Go after Vulcan/Titan, you'll get all the kills you want, just don't attack from the front. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

not really when the people using them usually have no clue what their doing, Mag is only devestating if it's got constant DD

And a ledge just makes them unreachable.

 

Which is why magnums short range capabilities needs to be significantly nerfed.

Edited September 12, 2018 by DieselPlatinum

[Guest]

My anti-freeze protection is M2.3. When Freeze hits me I'm useless. My tank won't respond and Vulcan....well the rotation has been nerfed anyway, but it freezes up, too. So, don't tell me Freeze is an underachiever. If I'm hit from the side or back all I can do is sit there and die. I don't even try to defend myself anymore. You want some kill points? Go after Vulcan/Titan, you'll get all the kills you want, just don't attack from the front. 

You're not gonna beat a Freeze with a Vulcan... it doesn't work that way. That's a falacy on Vulcan's side. M2.3 isn't really enough to guarantee, but it is definitely strong enough to ensure that you beat up a lot of freezes.

[CabbageRoll 3,018]

Looks like it got nerfed. Now i have to wait for 3 seconds to actually see damage appearing. 

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Buff rail and I will show you a death machine. Then nerf magnum would be sweet.

Railgun buff is needed more than ever before because Smoky is now as OP as Thunder...

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Rail doesn't really seem to need a buff IMO but i guess a minor buff would be nice

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Rail doesn't really seem to need a buff IMO but i guess a minor buff would be nice

Something like 20% min damage buff?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Something like 20% min damage buff?

Hell no, rail is fine as is. It doesn't need a damage buff. A vertical aiming buff or a buff in rotation speed is ok. But do not buff in damage.

 

If it got a buff in damage, especially the min damage, light hulls without any protections wouldn't stand a chance against a railgun on DD, since they'd be dead in one shot.

 

The damage is fine as it is now became light hulls can at least have that lucky chance of survival.