Declined Cut module protections by half

[thesquarerootof2 165]

You tried to make a point about what protections are used and not used.  And failed completely.

More ppl use protections against the turret they see in battles the most.  They use protections least against turrets they see the least.

Has nothing to do with bias.  You try to complicate it to suit your needs. 

Ok maybe it's not biased but it's definitely not balanced

It doesn't really matter WHY it's not balanced, the issue is that some modules are way more used than others and that puts certain turrets at a disadvantage

Unless you're denying that such a thing exists, of course

and for post #11 - don't bother.  If could not come up with a response by now, it just doesn't matter.

I detect a slight hint of salt there  ;)

[thesquarerootof2 165]

I haven't forgotten post #11. I actually have an idea already that should solve your complaints listed there. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Ok maybe it's not biased but it's definitely not balanced

It doesn't really matter WHY it's not balanced, the issue is that some modules are way more used than others and that puts certain turrets at a disadvantage

Unless you're denying that such a thing exists, of course

I detect a slight hint of salt there  ;)

The number of turrets in use made it unbalanced in terms of modules in use, yes.

 

But over past 6 months with many of the turrets getting boosts that is changing.

Any player that just equips Rail+Thunder+? and ignores the other turrets that have become OP is a fool.

 

Spend your crystals and buy some flexibility with a second turret combo.

Rail is not very good on Sandbox, Sandal, Polygon or Red Alert compared to many other turrets.

Even ignoring protection modules you are handi-capping yourself with just Rail (or Shaft).  Not every map you play will be Brest or Highways or Kunger.

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

That is an issue with Thunder and equipment differences, and modules are not the correct solution to either of those. 

Not the correct solution? I am tired of being one shooted by Railguns hiding behind houses or wall. This is why Rail is my most used protection. And even if it's 46%, I still die in 2 shots...

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Not the correct solution? I am tired of being one shooted by Railguns hiding behind houses or wall. This is why Rail is my most used protection. And even if it's 46%, I still die in 2 shots...

My point exactly. You equip those protections for no other reason besides "you're tired" of being killed by Rail. 

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Well technically I have plenty of money to buy some more turrets. But my favorite turret by far is Railgun. It is the only turret that I really love playing with. And Rail is one of those turrets that gets discriminated against by modules.

 

In any case, I just feel like it's really wrong how M3 and M4 weapons can be crippled by simple community dislike. Community doesn't like being killed by turret "x", suddenly turret "x" is at a massive disadvantage.

Rail is UP, that is the reason why it is useless against protected enemies. I already suggested to buff Rail...

[thesquarerootof2 165]

I know that this hasn't been posted in for a month, but i figured I'd revive this. 

 

And as promised, I will answer wolverine's post #11. Yes you have a point. No I can't deny you're right. So here's kind of an "alternative idea": 

 

(wolverine's post for reference) 

 

I can't argue with math.

 

However, I can use some math of my own too ... ;)

 

I have invested a lot of crystals on both my accounts to accumulate and upgrade protection modules. Crystals that might have instead been used to upgrade hulls and turrets even more.  But survivability in a battle is important to me.

 

As an example, I might have 40% protection compared to enemy at 20%.  That is an advantage of 20% in protection.  Perhaps my enemy spent crystals on MU for equipment instead, and has a 10% advantage on both hull and turret.

 

If you cut module protection in half, my advantage is cut in half as well - dropping to 10%.  But my enemy equipment advantage remains the same.

 

Drastically reducing one parameter of the game while leaving other parameters untouched can shift the balances.  I don't see this as reasonable.

 

 

Basically this idea is to still cut the module protections in half and keep the prices the same. HOWEVER, your modules will be taken away and refunded, including the microupgrades. The full value of the protections are refunded even if you did not actually pay that amount for them (such as if you bought/upgraded them during sales). The reason for this is that sales aren't common, and it's really frustrating to have to wait months for the next sale because you weren't refunded enough money to pay the costs normally. 

 

"Wait but you suggested this some time ago and I told you why it's not good" - Yeah. But that idea involved a price cut as well, which was why it was bad (for anyone else reading this, I have an explanation for this in the main post). This one doesn't. 

 

What will this accomplish, now? So you were saying how after this proposed change, you'll lose part of your advantage if you invested in modules compared to someone who invested in other stuff? Well, now you get a second chance to invest in not-modules if you feel that way. If you don't, then you can just re-invest in modules again :D

 

Am I admitting that modules will become overpriced/unworth? Overpriced, probably, but not unworth. Why? There will be a time when you've got the best equipment you could want. Fully upgraded hull, turret with your favorite alteration, drones, supplies, etc. You don't have any better equipment to spend your crystals on, except...MODULES! 25% is still a significant number so it's still a goal worth reaching for, even if it's last-priority. 

 

"But...micro-upgrade times..." - I unfortunately can't think of a simple solution to this one. However, it might help to know that it's a relatively small margin between an M3 thing and an M4 thing  :), so at least it won't be too grueling. I have low M1 equipment but I've done well in battles with high M1s/low M2s, so I can attest that while the difference between two M levels is definitely noticeable, you can mostly overcome it with some extra skill and drugs  :) Also I know the difference between 35% and 50% for modules is actually a big gap but remember that if this change goes forward the margin will no longer be 15%, but 7%. 

 

If you guys think this is good I'll add it to the main idea. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

I know that this hasn't been posted in for a month, but i figured I'd revive this. 

 

And as promised, I will answer wolverine's post #11. Yes you have a point. No I can't deny you're right. So here's kind of an "alternative idea": 

 

(wolverine's post for reference) 

 

 

 

 

Basically this idea is to still cut the module protections in half and keep the prices the same. HOWEVER, your modules will be taken away and refunded, including the microupgrades. The full value of the protections are refunded even if you did not actually pay that amount for them (such as if you bought/upgraded them during sales). The reason for this is that sales aren't common, and it's really frustrating to have to wait months for the next sale because you weren't refunded enough money to pay the costs normally. 

 

"Wait but you suggested this some time ago and I told you why it's not good" - Yeah. But that idea involved a price cut as well, which was why it was bad (for anyone else reading this, I have an explanation for this in the main post). This one doesn't. 

 

What will this accomplish, now? So you were saying how after this proposed change, you'll lose part of your advantage if you invested in modules compared to someone who invested in other stuff? Well, now you get a second chance to invest in not-modules if you feel that way. If you don't, then you can just re-invest in modules again :D

 

Am I admitting that modules will become overpriced/unworth? Overpriced, probably, but not unworth. Why? There will be a time when you've got the best equipment you could want. Fully upgraded hull, turret with your favorite alteration, drones, supplies, etc. You don't have any better equipment to spend your crystals on, except...MODULES! 25% is still a significant number so it's still a goal worth reaching for, even if it's last-priority. 

 

"But...micro-upgrade times..." - I unfortunately can't think of a simple solution to this one. However, it might help to know that it's a relatively small margin between an M3 thing and an M4 thing  :), so at least it won't be too grueling. I have low M1 equipment but I've done well in battles with high M1s/low M2s, so I can attest that while the difference between two M levels is definitely noticeable, you can mostly overcome it with some extra skill and drugs  :) Also I know the difference between 35% and 50% for modules is actually a big gap but remember that if this change goes forward the margin will no longer be 15%, but 7%. 

 

If you guys think this is good I'll add it to the main idea. 

 

 

Problem with re-investing in modules again is... takes F-O-R-E-V-E-R to upgrade them. 

I've been working on my M3 modules for over a year now.

 

But all that aside... have you noticed with drones and new alterations how TO is leaning toward offense and killing much faster?

Seen the new drone that gives you 400% power for 5 seconds?  How long you think tanks will last without decent modules?

 

I was in camp that considered dropping modules to 35%-40% IF they were allowed to gain a 4th protection - more turrets been added over past couple years means you are covered by less % of total turrets compared to 3-4 yrs ago.

 

But now I'm not so sure. 

Consider an m2 Hunter.  Shaft can kill that in one shot.  DD & DA cancel.  Under current system an m2 player likely to have 25% to 30% protection. But then the Shaft player equips the alt that gives +30% damage.  Unless that target has managed to reach 30% it will die in one shot, and module is useless.

Under your proposal that m2 player does not have a chance of getting close to 30% protection.  Will always be killed in one shot and module would be... useless.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

But all that aside... have you noticed with drones and new alterations how TO is leaning toward offense and killing much faster?

Seen the new drone that gives you 400% power for 5 seconds?  How long you think tanks will last without decent modules?

 

I was in camp that considered dropping modules to 35%-40% IF they were allowed to gain a 4th protection - more turrets been added over past couple years means you are covered by less % of total turrets compared to 3-4 yrs ago.

 

But now I'm not so sure. 

Well, the thing is, if everyone is OP then no one is OP, so even if Railguns and Thunders were getting Booster drones and OP alterations, everyone else, be they Firebirds, Freezes, Twins, Shafts, etc. would be getting them as well, so there is no general advantage, and it's right back to Railguns and Thunders struggling against protections again. 

 

I really am not a fan of the way Tanki is adding all this new mega-killing stuff though, I have to agree with you on that. 

 

 

Consider an m2 Hunter.  Shaft can kill that in one shot.  DD & DA cancel.  Under current system an m2 player likely to have 25% to 30% protection. But then the Shaft player equips the alt that gives +30% damage.  Unless that target has managed to reach 30% it will die in one shot, and module is useless.

Under your proposal that m2 player does not have a chance of getting close to 30% protection.  Will always be killed in one shot and module would be... useless.

One thing you have to consider is that the Shaft is paying 50,000 crystals, a 2x longer charge time, and -30% turret rotation for that alteration. Don't you think that with all that it would be unfair to take away his ability to one-shot anyways? 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Well, the thing is, if everyone is OP then no one is OP, so even if Railguns and Thunders were getting Booster drones and OP alterations, everyone else, be they Firebirds, Freezes, Twins, Shafts, etc. would be getting them as well, so there is no general advantage, and it's right back to Railguns and Thunders struggling against protections again. 

 

I really am not a fan of the way Tanki is adding all this new mega-killing stuff though, I have to agree with you on that. 

 

 

One thing you have to consider is that the Shaft is paying 50,000 crystals, a 2x longer charge time, and -30% turret rotation for that alteration. Don't you think that with all that it would be unfair to take away his ability to one-shot anyways? 

I dislike battles where I spend half the time dying and re-spawning - that kind of battle has no interest for me.  Protection modules alleviate this.

 

 

After being on the end of many Shaft one-shot kills (especially at m2 level), my answer without hesitation is .... NO.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Also, one more thing, and I actually already proved this to you, and this is that Shaft's Heavy Capacitors alteration is actually more than nullified by a 25% module

I dislike battles where I spend half the time dying and re-spawning - that kind of battle has no interest for me.  Protection modules alleviate this. 

Agreed. I definitely like that aspect about modules. What I don't like is how protection modules hit certain weapons much more harshly than others. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Also, one more thing, and I actually already proved this to you, and this is that Shaft's Heavy Capacitors alteration is actually more than nullified by a 25% module

Agreed. I definitely like that aspect about modules. What I don't like is how protection modules hit certain weapons much more harshly than others. 

Under your proposal, an m2 player would not have even close to 25% protection.  But an m2 Shaft player can get Heavy Capacitors.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Under your proposal, an m2 player would not have even close to 25% protection.  But an m2 Shaft player can get Heavy Capacitors.

Yeah, it sucks that that alt unlocks before players can completely negate its pros with a module, leaving only its cons.