Turrets are now too awkward to use now

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Before I say anything else, let me make this clear that firebird, twins, thunder, and smoky are not related to this topic at all, because they are truly way too easy to use. Ricochet is still awkward, even after that disguised super-buff/balance. 

 

Railgun - Everyone's running around with 50%s against you. You dominate everyone who doesn't wear them but your fastest reload time is way too slow compared to what 3 second reload + charge up time gets you. 

 

Shaft - Most MMS maps are too small to comfortably camp in now. Mid-range turrets are better at sniping than Shaft now. Shaft's arcade is too strong at close range, shaft's damage is too strong at long range, makes it awkward as hell to use. 

 

Isida - You heal someone, drain all of your charge, and you get little EXP back for it. You might as well go for the kill, especially considering how your DPS is almost the highest out of all the turrets, that said, it's also the heal gun of the game. It's energy pool is too short considering how everyone on the map in any mode is a possible target. 

 

Freeze - Freezing doesn't do anything at high ranks. You have to AVOID practically everyone who has at least 30% protection against you, which is literally everyone on the map, because your DPS is just not going to cut it (although its better now) and freezing ability is literally non-existant. Firebird and Isida out DPS you. 

 

Hammer - The random missing even though you are literally within 1 meter of your target and the fact that it is a short range weapon with a reload much slower than Magnum's make this extremely awkward to use. The time between each clip firing is also way too long to be used viably as a short range weapon. Also, it's a shotgun that kill an enemy far across on the map. 

 

Vulcan - Do I really need to say anything? (fine, i will) the charge up time makes me wonder wether or not the the devs are mentally stable (this was supposed to be a buff wasn't it? wth?) The overheating effect is way too much since it's aligned to firebird's burn and the moment you overheat, you're dead. Barrels turn extremely slowly, too. 

 

Magnum - It's even more OP than ever, but what the hell, it's now awkward as hell to use it. To make it extremely OP, you charge it up to 100% and then fire horizontally, which is the exact opposite of what it was meant to do, but it is still OP. Think of it as an OP railgun that's weird to use. 

 

Striker - The aiming system is garbage. It's too bad at doing what it's supposed to be good at (the lock-on feature is just a distraction, it only works 20% of the time). It's just a thunder that sacrificed all of it's aiming abilities and damage for a slightly faster reload and less modules.

 

Ricochet - Although it is practically OP in my opinion, the recent update made it fulfill the same role that twins does with slightly different parameters. The range nerf got rid of what it was supposed to be able to do, ricochet the shots of walls and hitting targets.

 

It used to be that all the turrets were actually good at doing what they were supposed to do. Now all of the turrets are something that either straight up sucks or is sort of fulfilling a role that is not it's main job. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by sensei_tanker

[Pyre 3,485]

Isida's EXP for healing is OK now, I think its 10 EXP for fully healing an ally (I havnt used Isida for a few months so I dont remember). It was 5 but its back to 10.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Department of Redundancy Department

[Total_SkiIl 1,983]

Isida - You heal someone, drain all of your charge, and you get little EXP back for it. You might as well go for the kill, especially considering how your DPS is almost the highest out of all the turrets, that said, it's also the heal gun of the game. It's energy pool is too short considering how everyone on the map in any mode is a possible target. 

 

Just give it back its post-2016 re-balance self heal.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Total_SkiIl

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Isida has currently 10 sec pool for healing but only 5 sec for damage. I think that devs should increase the damage pool to 10 sec to make it stronger.

 

Hammer clips should be completely removed, it should just fire like Smoky.

 

Freezing effect is strong enough to prevent me from rotating the hull amd turret effectively. When Freeze starts circling an enemy, the enemy has NO chance. Even OD does not help you against circling Freeze, you just can not aim on it.

 

Magnum splash was nerfed, so it is not OP anymore. I see less Magnums in battles.

 

Vulcan shot delay should be completely removed or decreased to 0,5 sec. It is just ridiculous that you need to wait 3 sec just to start firing. Thunder can hit you twice during that interval.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Enlightening read. Not sure I’m on board with the ‘every turret is awkward’ concept, but I do see the pattern developing over time of designers giving turrets specific nuances, which prevent each from just being a brick-on-spacebar weapon.

[Guest]

Isida has currently 10 sec pool for healing but only 5 sec for damage. I think that devs should increase the damage pool to 10 sec to make it stronger.

 

Hammer clips should be completely removed, it should just fire like Smoky.

 

Freezing effect is strong enough to prevent me from rotating the hull amd turret effectively. When Freeze starts circling an enemy, the enemy has NO chance. Even OD does not help you against circling Freeze, you just can not aim on it.

 

Magnum splash was nerfed, so it is not OP anymore. I see less Magnums in battles.

 

Vulcan shot delay should be completely removed or decreased to 0,5 sec. It is just ridiculous that you need to wait 3 sec just to start firing. Thunder can hit you twice during that interval.

I'm not sure if that's the right balance for Isida and I think balancing a turret as difficult to balance like Isida will involve more parameters and abilities being changed.

 

I agree, but the moderators have made it clear many times that the only reason why Hammer is truly special is its reload mechanic, which will never be removed.

 

If you have 0 protection, you're toast. But at Legend, everyone has 40%+ protection, which makes it impossible to use.

 

Magnum players need to change their strategy. Give it some time, we are all jumping to conclusions before we have seen anything. 

 

Yeah, Vulcan shot delay needs to be removed or minimized at best. 

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

I agree with Isida and Hammer, Isida should have it's healing charge doubled and another 2.5 seconds for Attack. Hammer should have a second of two taken off of it's reload time, the time between shots is perfect to manage it's recoil

[nemoetnihil 388]

I think isida and hammer are two of the most balanced turrets right now. There is no need to change them.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Hmm, modules vs turrets... there’s probably room for discussion, maybe a new thread, on the effectiveness of various turrets against their respective modules.

 

Off the top of my head, I feel like Twins and Firebird modules help the least, while Thunder/Rail/Smoky modules basically render those turrets useless. Hammer and Isida modules are up there too - 40%+ protection make it extremely difficult to kill enemy tanks.

 

.

Edited October 4, 2018 by austen_pierce

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

Austen, if you don't have DA, rail module is useless vs a M4 rail with the alteration. Same for Thunder module, I die in 3 shots without the DA.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I think isida and hammer are two of the most balanced turrets right now. There is no need to change them.

Isida needs more benefits when healing a teammate.

 

Like 10 exp when healing a light hull, 15 exp for healing a medium hull, and 20 exp when healing a heavy hull.

 

Hammer is a bit underpowered. It either needs a damage buff or a slight firing rate buff and an improvement in the reload time in between clips, or a combination of the two.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

I feel like Twins and Firebird modules help the least, while Thunder/Rail/Smoky modules basically render those turrets useless.

You are wrong. Fire and Twins need to out-DPS enemies to kill them. When you have M3 Twins module, you kill the Twins before it kills you.

 

Rail has absurdly low DPS so it tends to be useless against modules. However, when enemy team lacks skilled Smokies and Thunders, you can get easy kills because nobody can knock your aim. Rail buff would solve the problem.

 

Thunder and Smoky are OP because they have 50% 'weak' damage and far more DPS than Rail so they are effective at ANY range. They can just snipe across the map and kill everything, it just takes lot of time (when enemy has DA and M3 module). I think that Thunder and Smoky modules are a must-have.

[wolverine848 13,097]

You are wrong. Fire and Twins need to out-DPS enemies to kill them. When you have M3 Twins module, you kill the Twins before it kills you.

 

Rail has absurdly low DPS so it tends to be useless against modules. However, when enemy team lacks skilled Smokies and Thunders, you can get easy kills because nobody can knock your aim. Rail buff would solve the problem.

 

Thunder and Smoky are OP because they have 50% 'weak' damage and far more DPS than Rail so they are effective at ANY range. They can just snipe across the map and kill everything, it just takes lot of time (when enemy has DA and M3 module). I think that Thunder and Smoky modules are a must-have.

Fire has deadly afterburn so it does not need as high DPS - so you are wrong.   R-O-N-G.  Wrong.

 

Ranged weapons like Rail (and Shaft, and Magnum) don't rely on "DPS" - that stat is irrelevant.  It is their ability to do huge amounts of damage instantly that matter.  Their ability to one-shot unprotected tanks makes them a big threat. This is why, in addition to being a "common" turret, that many players equip Rail protection by default.

 

Rail has even better "weak" damage than Thunder & Smoky though, right?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Fire has deadly afterburn so it does not need as high DPS - so you are wrong.   R-O-N-G.  Wrong.

 

Ranged weapons like Rail (and Shaft, and Magnum) don't rely on "DPS" - that stat is irrelevant.  It is their ability to do huge amounts of damage instantly that matter.  Their ability to one-shot unprotected tanks makes them a big threat. This is why, in addition to being a "common" turret, that many players equip Rail protection by default.

 

Rail has even better "weak" damage than Thunder & Smoky though, right?

The only weak damage that railgun has is in the form of its min damage.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Rail has even better "weak" damage than Thunder & Smoky though, right?

Yes, but Rail has several disadvantages, for example 1 second shot delay, bad auto-aim, long reload, random damage output, 'nice' shooting effect which reveals your cover and of course, bad DPS. Do whatever you want, you just sometimes GET to a short/medium range fight, even if you do your best to avoid it.

 

Smoky and Thunder have enough DPS to get short range kills, Railgun gets short range kills only by luck. Smoky and Thunder are much more versatile than Rail because of higher DPS, lack of shot delay and better auto-aim.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Yes, but Rail has several disadvantages, for example 1 second shot delay, bad auto-aim, long reload, random damage output, 'nice' shooting effect which reveals your cover and of course, bad DPS. Do whatever you want, you just sometimes GET to a short/medium range fight, even if you do your best to avoid it.

 

Smoky and Thunder have enough DPS to get short range kills, Railgun gets short range kills only by luck. Smoky and Thunder are much more versatile than Rail because of higher DPS, lack of shot delay and better auto-aim.

They have different uses and are effective in different ways.

 

And Thunder does not exactly like "close encounters" as it suffers from it's own splash.

 

If smoky and thunder were so much better than rail you would see a lot more of either of those compared to rail.

I'm not seeing that evidence on the battle-field.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Yes, but Rail has several disadvantages, for example 1 second shot delay, bad auto-aim, long reload, random damage output, 'nice' shooting effect which reveals your cover and of course, bad DPS. Do whatever you want, you just sometimes GET to a short/medium range fight, even if you do your best to avoid it.

Smoky and Thunder have enough DPS to get short range kills, Railgun gets short range kills only by luck. Smoky and Thunder are much more versatile than Rail because of higher DPS, lack of shot delay and better auto-aim.

Maybe rail can use a slight buff in vertical auto aiming. But not a buff in damage or firing rate, because otherwise not only it would make the HCA alt even more OP, but it would also buff the rail modules since people would have more of a reason to equip rail protections.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

about magnum... i wouldn't call it akward to use, more like awesome

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Austen, if you don't have DA, rail module is useless vs a M4 rail with the alteration. Same for Thunder module, I die in 3 shots without the DA.

Agreed. Although I didn’t say it, I was assuming both tanks are fully drugged. My experience has been that I can mostly ignore Rail when I have the module equipped.

 

 

 

You are wrong. Fire and Twins need to out-DPS enemies to kill them. When you have M3 Twins module, you kill the Twins before it kills you.

 

I like a good numbers game as much as the next guy, but with these two it’s all about range, not DPS. When you’re in range, attacking with these turrets against unprotected hulls is always a win. Against protected hulls, it’s also usually a win, because they are so good at dealing damage at close RANGE whereas the victim is more often than not a mid or long range turret and cannot hurt you as quickly at close range.

 

.

Edited October 5, 2018 by austen_pierce

[Guest]

You are wrong. Fire and Twins need to out-DPS enemies to kill them. When you have M3 Twins module, you kill the Twins before it kills you.

Not really. It's actually quite the opposite. 

 

Firebird doesn't need to out DPS anyone. They have the afterburn which is literally a death sentence. 

 

Twins really doesn't need to out DPS anyone. Giving the turret the highest firing rate the highest DPS is a really bad idea considering you will never catch if off guard or out of ammo and they will always beat you in a 1 v 1.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

^beat me to it. I was going to add this - that Fire’s afterburn finishes off enemies for you, while you can simply outlast enemies with Twins while they run out of ammo or wait for reload

[Michael828 816]

Might as well call Ricochet's ricocheting effect an extra feature cause it is barely noticed now with the range nerf, though I'm not complaining at all cause those 25-30 shots are more than enough to kill anything, may be kinda awkward but still very useful.

 

Considering the other turrets I 100% agree with you.

[Heles 9,220]

For me 

It would be vulcan and striker 

[PlazmaKG 14]

I feel the problem isn't the turrets. but the modules. I think modules protection should be cut in half for all modifications so people aren't too over powered against 1 turret.