Changes in the balance of Vulcan, some Drones and Alterations

[wolverine848 13,097]

If I was tasked to rebalance Vulcan, I would put both shot delays on 0,5 sec like real rotary guns have. Then I would put magazines there instead of stupid overheat. The Vulcan players would simply peek, empty the magazine, hide, reload and repeat.

Not sure why Devs have such a hard time getting it right - unless they do this on purpose to frustrate us.

 

And the comments from CM in original announcement were quite vague and made no sense. If this was the best alternative, I'd hate to see the rejected ones...

 

 

On a side note... with all the nerfs to the vulcan damage, if you see an Incendiary band vulcan on other team, you are way better off equipping fire module if you have to choose between fire & vulcan. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by wolverine848

[CooperO 7,956]

"but just reducing overheating damage wouldn't have solved the problem fully. So we decided to change the mechanics of the turret itself." 

 

What mechanics did you even change? All you changed alongside that was the barrel-spin up time. You said it like other aspects of the turret were changed but there weren't any other changes made. That seems like bad wording. 

 

 

 

"We tried several options and decided to make the necessary changes to the overheating mechanic as described. This makes Vulcan a viable option on any hull." 

 

What train of thought lead to the conculsion that this change makes Vulcan viable on any hull? It's basically a nerf. How would dealing less damage overall to ONE enemy at a time under a sometimes unavoidable circumstance make it viable on any hull? 

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I want to believe they left out an important part of the change because what they''re saying doesn't add up. 

They changed the mechanic of the turret itself (less 'normal' damage when overheating), instead of changing the overheating damage (less burn damage). Reducing burn damage would only affect players who use the incendiary band alteration, this change affects all Vulcan users. 

Previously, Vulcan favored heavy hulls because they could keep firing much longer when overheating than light hulls. Now it's far less interesting to keep firing when you start to overheat and it's likely a better choice to stop firing for a while to recharge. This was already the case for light hulls, but now it is too for heavy hulls. Combine that with a shorter start up time and Vulcan becomes a more versatile weapon, rather than mainly a camping weapon. So much for the reasoning behind the change. Time will tell if the changes have the intended effect or not.

 

can anyone explain what happened to shaft alteration???

With the alteration, you can shoot three times in a row quickly and then the energy tank is empty. The time it takes for your energy tank to completely fill up has been increased. So the speed at which the energy tank fills has been reduced (by 15%)

 

That is a lie. I don't know if it was intentional, or just a mistake but the base damage of Vulcan has been nerfed by 70 percent. It doesn't matter overheating or not, it doesn't matter if we have the alt or not, the damage is reduced by 70 percent. I really don't understand if developers do test their changes before rolling them out or they test it in the main game. I do understand buffing and nerfing is there to balance the game. But at least do what you say. The admins say something else. Developers change something else. This game has been around for years now but still the unprofessionalism is of heights. And this is not the first time a mistake has been made. I remember, when they made the heating temperature change to Firebird months back, they used same mechanics to heat Vulcan up. It seemed like one bullet after the ammo bar was used, and Vulcan heats up like hit by a Firebird.

 

I have been a long time Vulcan player. Long before alts and these increased barrel rolling time. Vulcan was one of the least favorite turret then cause it was too weak. But it was still better than what they have done now with it now. I would prefer not to have the incendiary alt but damage as it was before. This game is rolling downhill. 

It's certainly not intentional for the damage to be reduced when Vulcan isn't overheating, so I've reported it as a bug.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

They changed the mechanic of the turret itself (less 'normal' damage when overheating), instead of changing the overheating damage (less burn damage). Reducing burn damage would only affect players who use the incendiary band alteration, this change affects all Vulcan users. 

Previously, Vulcan favored heavy hulls because they could keep firing much longer when overheating than light hulls. Now it's far less interesting to keep firing when you start to overheat and it's likely a better choice to stop firing for a while to recharge. This was already the case for light hulls, but now it is too for heavy hulls. Combine that with a shorter start up time and Vulcan becomes a more versatile weapon, rather than mainly a camping weapon. So much for the reasoning behind the change. Time will tell if the changes have the intended effect or not.

Reducing the afterburn damage would mainly affect Incendiary Band users. Other Vulcans are able to overheat and are sometimes put in situations where overheating is the only choice you know. 

 

Far less interesting? What was interesting about dying while shooting? The only way I see that being interesting is if you''re using Incendiary Band. Other than that, it isn't interesting. 

 

MM battles are frantic. Sometimes, as stated in the first paragraph, in order to survive, you can't stop and then start shooting again. You can die in that time. You're already getting 300 damage per second of afterburn damage for overheating. Why decrease your damage while overheating by a WHOPPING 70% on top of that? You also can't look at this from a high-rank perspective. Think about the low-ranks. 300 damage per second of afterburn is dreadful down there. Kills M0 light hulls in 4 seconds, mediums in 5 and heavy hulls in 7. For M0 Vulcan, just two seconds of shooting after your energy is depleted results in 6 ticks of afterburn damage. That's enough to kill a medium hull. It is also worth noting that protections are rare down there as they're expensive. So you're going to see them taking the full brink of the afterburn damage.

 

It is MM, there are 8 enemies. Enemies will be coming after us. It's not like we can't be touched by the enemy team you know. Factor that in with the fact that the afterburn damage is huge, it means we're not gonna be performing that well come the times when drastic measures (overheating) needs to take place. 

 

The spin-up time decrease is negligible in the low ranks. By the M2 ranks, then there would be a noticeable difference. It doesn't compensate for your DPS dropping to 30% of whatever damage you were doing at that range. 

I must be using it wrong because I don't camp with it. So what if light hulls using Vulcan have to overheat in order to finish off this pesky enemy who is doing your team dirty? You want them to suffer as well? Vulcan's gyroscopic feature is hard to get accustomed to. Plus, you need your bullets to hit. You wouldn't want a Smoky knocking your light hull's aim all over the place now would you? Heavy hulls can stay stable and deal the proper damage to enemies. Why do you think people don't like Wasp + Vulcan combos on their team? 

 

Hopefully the intended effect satisfied them because Vulcan doesn't seem to be a worthy pick over any other turret right now. 

[Matt_Black 203]

Wow great update. 

 

Invincible tanks, force fields, nukes and not forgetting that everyone gets a free 70% vulcan protection module.

 

So glad that what little money I spent on this game was on Vulcan. Now I have a turret that kills me faster than it kills anyone else. At M3+ I should be seeing damage of over 500 points a second, So why am I seeing damage in double figures when shooting un-armoured opponents and single figures (1s and 2s FFS) when overheating. 

 

Freeze is still OP

I'm sick of getting killed by hammer, bang bang your'e dead.

Finally Vulcan gets a decent alt and a bit of a buff and if you know what you are doing with it can be a good choice. But no slap it down to Fkin useless again.

 

Oh and firebird gets a free kill on any Vulcan. If you can get your turret spun up in time (.5 of a second big wow) to hit them you are overheating so can't kill them. Wasp+firebird against titan+vulcan=no contest. I was overheated before the turret span up and was doing single digit damage after. it was just easier to let him spawn kill me, then hit pause until he Fked off to bother someone else.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

They changed the mechanic of the turret itself (less 'normal' damage when overheating), instead of changing the overheating damage (less burn damage). Reducing burn damage would only affect players who use the incendiary band alteration, this change affects all Vulcan users. 

Previously, Vulcan favored heavy hulls because they could keep firing much longer when overheating than light hulls. Now it's far less interesting to keep firing when you start to overheat and it's likely a better choice to stop firing for a while to recharge. This was already the case for light hulls, but now it is too for heavy hulls. Combine that with a shorter start up time and Vulcan becomes a more versatile weapon, rather than mainly a camping weapon. So much for the reasoning behind the change. Time will tell if the changes have the intended effect or not.

CooperO, I take your point that this will mean Vulcan is more equal in power with all hulls... but why does non - Incendiary brand Vulcan need to be nerfed at all??? Vulcan without alterations is, and was arguably the weakest turret as it stands, before this nerf, and yes the Incendiary brand was strong but there is absolutely no need to nerf other Vulcans. This change makes absolutely no sense, why not just get rid of being able to fire when overheating all together? With such an insane damage reduction, 70%, it is literally counter-productive to continue firing after you start overheating in almost any situation, you do more damage to yourself than to the enemy. Why have a whole mechanic of a turret destroyed?

 

If they wanted to make Vulcan equal across all hulls they should do something like change the overheating damage to a PERCENTAGE of hull health per tick, and not have nerfed the damage of regular Vulcans whatsoever. Lets say it reduces by 3-4% per tick, then it can fire for an equally long length of time with wasp or with Titan - problem solved without nerfing an already weak turret.

 

If they wanted to nerf Incendiary brand Vulcan damage they should have done just that, fine make it -70% Vulcan damage when overheating, but only for that alteration. Really though, that is too much, 50% would have been enough.  The best change of all would have been to have Vulcan heating on the enemy count as Vulcan and not Fire damage, as it always should have been, and then it could be dealt with separately and reduced in damage without affecting Firebird, and also reduced by Vulcan module, not requiring two modules. But if that's too complicated to code a flat Vulcan damage reduction when overheating would have sufficed.

 

A reduction in charge - up time is something but that means very little for decent Vulcan players who would always pre - charge the turret and keep the barrels spinning before engaging an enemy, it does not at all compensate for such a huge damage penalty when overheating, and this completely destroys one of the turrets key mechanics. Vulcan should have had the buff of the reduced charge - up time without the damage penalty, as it was already too weak.

Edited April 12, 2019 by DestrotankAI9

[TWICE 798]

If I was tasked to rebalance Vulcan, I would put both shot delays on 0,5 sec like real rotary guns have. Then I would put magazines there instead of stupid overheat. The Vulcan players would simply peek, empty the magazine, hide, reload and repeat.

 

Ya, they could revamp Vulcan's recharge mechanic to Hammer's one.  Nerfing the damage per shot while overheating doesn't make sense (yeah, I know Tanki is just a game).  But, why would the damage decrease?  The bullets are melting when they are coming out from a overheating gun, thus they do less damage?

 

Maybe devs could consider to give a number of rounds (70-80) per magazine similar to Hammer.  According to wiki, the damage (HP/sec) for M3+ Vulcan is 600 while The maximum HP for hulls in game is 4000.  Thus, Vulcan with 70 rounds could have a chance kill the opposition before reloading (when relevant module is not equip and supplies are off).  The reloading time can be the same as the cool down time, thus normal Vulcan won't suffer from overheat.

 

They may even make 2 other alternations. (1) Increasing the number of rounds per magazine (maybe +50%?), but the Vulcan should suffer from overheating after continuously firing more than the rounds in a normal magazine like the existing mechanism. (2) Shortening the reloading time (-50%?), but the shot makes less damage and it could easily suffer from overheating if keeps firing right after reload.

[NatchGa 665]

Shooting Speed Regulator still has a 20% damage nerf - it's garbage.

You won't kill tanks until you start to overheat.  Then add a nother 70% damage nerf.     It's not worth it.

you dont go overtime, you gain an extra 50% more time too shoot lol that makes up for the minor 20% damage loss

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

you dont go overtime, you gain an extra 50% more time too shoot lol that makes up for the minor 20% damage loss

20% isn't minor. 

[tanker_m7mod 8]

I want gyroscope effect return to vulcan  -_-

[HD-3-4-5R-2 50]

Vulcan will deal 70% less damage when overheating due to prolonged firing.

You sure explained that to him by quoting what's already said in the thread.

[Nexonthebeach 0]

that's unacceptable. Vulcan has gone from being one of the strongest weapons, to a completaly useless one. 70% of reduction is unacceptable. Now that i'm almost m4 with vulcan. That's unrespectfull for playing users. 

[The_Pakistani 16,768]

You sure explained that to him by quoting what's already said in the thread.

Yeah because he was too lazy to read that.

Edited April 12, 2019 by The_Pakistani

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Yeah because he was too lazy to read that.[/quote

You repeated to him exactly what he was confused about. That isn't helpful; you have to elaborate further to make easier for him to understand.

[The_Pakistani 16,768]

Yeah because he was too lazy to read that.[/quote

You repeated to him exactly what he was confused about. That isn't helpful; you have to elaborate further to make easier for him to understand.

That's not my jobs. Give me a favour; why you don't tell him?

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

That's not my jobs. Give me a favour; why you don't tell him?

Well you were the one to engage in explaining it to him. Sure it's not your job but it doesn't have to be. If you saw someone on the groud hurting and pleading to be taken to a hospital, would you say, "That's not my job"?

 

"Give me a favour; why you don't tell him?". That right there sounds like you started a job and want someone else to do the work. If you can't explain to him in a way that he can understand, then you were really no help at all and shouldn't have attempted to help him understand.

[wolverine848 13,097]

You sure explained that to him by quoting what's already said in the thread.

Is there really a simpler way to explain "Vulcan will deal 70% less damage"?

 

That's not my jobs. Give me a favour; why you don't tell him?

Ooops-- wrong quote...

Edited April 12, 2019 by wolverine848

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Is there really a simpler way to explain "Vulcan will deal 70% less damage"?

 

 

Ooops-- wrong quote...

You have to make it extra easier for them to understand. While others may deem it unnecessary to try, I still would try in hope that they would understand.

 

It's kind of like a 'leave no man behind' thing. Where others may fail at trying to explain something to a player, I would step in and try myself but where others would not even make an attempt to properly explain, I would urge them to make an effort.

[Matt_Black 203]

I guess the game dev's really hate Vulcan. 

 

I thought it would be fun to try Viking+Vulcan, four seconds of screaming chaingun fun!

 

Viking is a poor choice for Vulcan as it's stability is crap and I was being bounced all over the place and hitting little. Eventually the overdrive powered up and. . . . .

 

Nothing.

 

Burning tank, no screaming gun rotating a thousand miles an hour and still doing low 2 figures damage when I eventually managed to hit someone. 

 

Guys if you really hate it that much get rid of it and replace it with another long range turret, one that has no splash self damage, the ability to fire continuously, and no minimum range penalty. To really cripple it you could make it all but useless on smaller hulls, practically impossible to track close targets due to a turret mechanic that was supposed to help but now doesn't. Oh and a stream of glowing bullets showing the enemy exactly where you are don't forget. 

 

It was possible with skill to fight off freeze, isidia, and firebird at close range. now it's a free kill to anyone who can get close to you and keep you firing. Do you overheat while they kill you without taking significant damage, or do you stop shooting while they kill you? 

 

Devs if you gave everyone a 70% protection module for freeze there would be uproar. Buy that;'s what you have done to all Vulcan users.

 

What did we get in exchange? Half a second less spin up time and 20% less damage overall?

 

Not exactly a fair exchange is it? How about a 50% reduction in damage when overheating with incendiary band but give us better turret speed. Buff the plus and minus elevation stats and drop the spin up time across the board. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

You have to make it extra easier for them to understand. While others may deem it unnecessary to try, I still would try in hope that they would understand.

 

It's kind of like a 'leave no man behind' thing. Where others may fail at trying to explain something to a player, I would step in and try myself but where others would not even make an attempt to properly explain, I would urge them to make an effort.

So how would you explain it - without using the current description?

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Is it a 70% decrease in self-damage or in damage dealt for the Vulcan?

So how would you explain it - without using the current description?

It is damage dealt for the Vulcan. Afterburn damage remains the same number after the change. As you have it at M3, it would deal at least 530 damage per second at close to medium range. When you're overheating, the damage that your Vulcan deals would decrease to 159 damage per second at close to medium range. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

It is damage dealt for the Vulcan. Afterburn damage remains the same number after the change. As you have it at M3, it would deal at least 530 damage per second at close to medium range. When you're overheating, the damage that your Vulcan deals would decrease to 159 damage per second at close to medium range. 

Well unless you have charts handy, that explanation takes way too much time and is way more than is needed.

 

To answer the question "Is it a 70% decrease in self-damage or in damage dealt for the Vulcan?" 

all you need to do is reply...

"damage dealt for the Vulcan?"

 

Since you use the words of the poster, the meaning should be 100% clear.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Well unless you have charts handy, that explanation takes way too much time and is way more than is needed.

 

To answer the question "Is it a 70% decrease in self-damage or in damage dealt for the Vulcan?" 

all you need to do is reply...

"damage dealt for the Vulcan?"                                                                                                                               

 

Since you use the words of the poster, the meaning should be 100% clear.

I understand. I don't like to give short answers as I feel they may be too vague or open to too many interpretations and encourage even more questions so I try to answer as many questions as possible that may have its roots from the original question. So I guess you can say that I give "long answers" to questions that can ultimately suffice with a short answer.

[NatchGa 665]

20% isn't minor. 

...yes it is. see, i can also quote people out of nowhere and state random opinions that stand alone with nothing to back them up

[AncientFire 1,894]

well many ppl are talking about vulcan here, seems as if the other changes never even happened

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

...yes it is. see, i can also quote people out of nowhere and state random opinions that stand alone with nothing to back them up

Hmm, if it was minor, then why isn't it being used instead of Stock Vulcan? That barrel spin-up and slowdown times are gorgeous, aren't they? Don't forget that now you can shoot for at least 14 seconds before overheating. That definitely makes up for a 20% damage decrease in MM battles. 

 

You don't even use Vulcan (according to the account that you're posting on's stats). When was the last time you've seen a Non-Incendiary Band Vulcan in MM? If you've been seeing them around, how well do they do? Chances are, they did pretty poorly compared to Incendiary Band Vulcans.  

 

For M4 Vulcan, a Stock Vulcan can do at most 7,200 damage before beginning to overheat. A Shooting Speed Regulator Vulcan can deal at most 8,640 damage before beginning to overheat. MM battles are fast-paced. Many maps contain lots of cover for enemies to hide behind. People would prefer to use the version of a turret that deals the most damage in the least amount of time because anyone can hide. 10 seconds is pretty good for that as you can expel a few seconds of bullets onto the enemy and catch them right as they get behind cover with Stock Vulcan. With Shooting Speed Regulator Vulcan, you wouldn't kill them because that 20% damage reduction would not allow you to deal the finishing blow in time. Then there are the situations where an enemy is coming and you need to take them out as fast as possible. You can do that with Stock Vulcan but you may suffer damage from them using SSR Vulcan.

 

In maps that don't have much cover, Shooting Speed Regulator can do well. I'm not saying it's useless, I'm just saying that it's better to use Stock Vulcan than regular Vulcan in most if not all MM battles. I like the pros of Shooting Speed Regulator. It's just that I like to keep my damage high at all times since my team needs to secure victory. It's overpriced at the moment which is a deterring factor for anyone interested in it. However, Incendiary Band is right there for less than half of the cost of SSR and could have dominated battles with it. Alterations bring too much disequilibrium to whatever balance we had before.