Let's Discuss Spawn Killing

[Potdindy 866]

Spawn killing is something that happens in a nonzero number of games. One team pushes forward and gets a number of kills on enemies who are just entering the game. There might be another topic about this, but I think it would be interesting to talk about what causes this and how it can be prevented.

 

What I think causes it:

 

One team is just better by a lot than the other. We've all seen players who cant turn their turrets, who use speed boost when the enemies is close by, etc...sometimes this happens and I dont know if it can be helped...its a thing in every game, some are better than others.

 

One team has more runners which aren't replaced. When you are low on numbers, every defender now is responsible for more opponents.

 

Some maps lend themselves to spawn killing. Some of the worst blowouts I've seen are in highland. The attacking team pours into the defending base and the defenders have nowhere to go. 

 

What I do not think causes it:

 

Lack of ability to use supplies: I don't want this to be a hate druggers topic. Everyone gets a bagillion armors and damages so everyone can defend themselves.

 

Lack of ability to use drones: Drones help but are only a small percentage of an advantage....now overdrives are lovely as they are free and give a variety of bonuses.

 

So, where do you see spawn killing the most? What causes it, and how can teams/players adapt to keep from regularly getting wrecked

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Alright...but we need to discuss some possible solutions to spawn killing. There are some ideas already, but we can add more.

[CabbageRoll 3,018]

it would be interesting to talk about what causes this and how it can be prevented

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

I see it in TDMs and CTFs. 

 

Almost every TDM battle I get put into results in one team winning by 20 kills or more. There are the few battles where the gab is less than 5 kills but that's so rare these days. One team always has better equipment than another team, and it's not like the team with "less" has one person with considerably less than expected equipment. It's less equipment throughout with two of the aforementioned players. 

 

I'm doubting that MM assembles teams with similar strengths. 

 

One thing I subtly noticed with MM is that sometimes, when you have teams that, in terms of rank, contains: 3, 3, 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 1  vs 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, the former team would have many players who bought product kits or have great equipment for their rank and would dominate the team that seemingly has better-ranked players. So whenever I see this, I feel as if ranks have more priority over equipment in the MM system. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

LOL!

[u812ic 1,629]

Today on Wolfstein assault, 3 Smoky/Vikings (blue team) came into red's base and killed the entire team with their OD activated and left. When their OD reactivated, they came back with the rest of their team. We were spread out fairly well, only 4 were guarding the flag base the rest of us were guarding the entrances. We were already losing and you know how OD works on the losing team....rare to none. 

 

In the first half of the battle, we tried hard to score, but were unable to. The second half was when we were being spawn killed. 

 

Spawn killing has always been a problem, now it's worse. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by u812ic

[ZloyDanuJI 409]

I think that the problem is that the spawn killing team has access to the drop boxes of the whole map so they can always arrive with full supplies while the team getting spawn killed can only activate 1 supply and then a repair (which is gonna get cancelled before it fully heals)  which may help them last slightly longer but isn't enough to get enemies with 3 supplies activated out of their base.

another problem is that they spawn at different times so each time they spawn they'll have to face 2 or 3 enemies and die very quickly so they won't be there by the time their next teammate spawns.

solution for the supplies problem is trooper drone. solution for driving enemies out of their base is blaster drone. the way to prevent too many enemies from getting in is saboteur drone.

Edited April 16, 2019 by ZloyDanuJI

[Boeing_787 1,455]

I like how you posted the same topic three times.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

What I think causes spawn killing:

 

When in CP, your team got all the points and have nothing else to do except span kill. Also similar in CTF and rugby when one member has the flag or ball.

 

Solution: devs should combine all three aforementioned game modes plus ASL into one new game mode and call that the new ASL.

 

Certain map layouts.

 

Solution: devs should make fixes to them.

[TWICE 798]

I see it in TDMs and CTFs. 

 

Almost every TDM battle I get put into results in one team winning by 20 kills or more. There are the few battles where the gab is less than 5 kills but that's so rare these days. One team always has better equipment than another team, and it's not like the team with "less" has one person with considerably less than expected equipment. It's less equipment throughout with two of the aforementioned players. 

 

I'm doubting that MM assembles teams with similar strengths. 

 

One thing I subtly noticed with MM is that sometimes, when you have teams that, in terms of rank, contains: 3, 3, 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 1  vs 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, the former team would have many players who bought product kits or have great equipment for their rank and would dominate the team that seemingly has better-ranked players. So whenever I see this, I feel as if ranks have more priority over equipment in the MM system. 

Spawn killing is all over the place even in Rugby.  I also agree that happens mostly because of the better equipment.  

 

Would it be better if MM system considers Gear Score instead of Rank?

[Jade 1,420]

Spawn-Killing is definitely present in XP/BP, I don't see it as a problem but more of a tactic. It does take some effective maneuvering and use of the map by both teammates (in a 2v2 for example) to trap the enemy team in their spawn, but sometimes it does get a little annoying when it's a cycle of repetitive spawn kills as you pray for one of the two spawn killers to finally miss their shot. 

 

Nonetheless, it can end up being a much worse situation in larger battles (for example MM), where you simply have an entire cluster of opponents charging into your base. Can't hope on one person missing their shot, that won't help you when there are many others to come after that!  :P

 

In my opinion, spawn killing is just a part of any multiplayer Team-vs-Team game, it's not really something that can be prevented easily, and it's not always someone's fault. Just requires a lot of timed quantity and skilled teamwork to get out of it, which is easier said than done.

[Potdindy 866]

I like how you posted the same topic three times.

Yes, you can report it...idk how to get rid of it....I posted but it said error...twice so..yeah

 

Three things that I have seen help vs spawn killing altho not a final help is trooper drone, titan, mamoth and hunters OD. Hunter and titan especially as they can stop spawn killing instantly. We will see how they work in the future.

 

Any maps that see it more than others?

[TWICE 798]

What I think causes spawn killing:

 

When in CP, your team got all the points and have nothing else to do except span kill. Also similar in CTF and rugby when one member has the flag or ball.

 

Solution: devs should combine all three aforementioned game modes plus ASL into one new game mode and call that the new ASL.

 

Certain map layouts.

 

Solution: devs should make fixes to them.

Spawn killing actually is a great tactic in those situations.  For CP, you can keep enemies from capturing any of the Points.  And in CTF & Rugby, teammate can capture the flag or score a goal with ease.

 

This tactic is also written on the wiki page of Control Points:

Then, together with your team-mates, you should try to drive the enemy out of the remaining points, and to lock them inside their own base.

[LunaStar 348]

The moment when Two zone players Pro(s) Keep destroying the 2 Enemies again and again. They keep spawning again and again. Hahahha,,,,

[wolverine848 13,097]

Teams is the key factor.

 

Either a very strong team on one side or a weak team on the other - or combination.

The Team then controls the map.  Once you have control of the map you have the supply drops and the "higher ground".

Once the Team has control it scores faster and thus generates OverDrive faster.  Now it's a positive feedback loop and the powerful stay more powerful.

 

Another way "teams" become more powerful is through sheer numbers.

1) MatchMaker is a terrible system and I've seen 8 players start playing on one team while the other has 4 active players.  See above.

2) Once a team starts losing, you can have desertions. Once this starts, the numbers make it easy for Spawn-killing to begin.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Spawn killing actually is a great tactic in those situations.  For CP, you can keep enemies from capturing any of the Points.  And in CTF & Rugby, teammate can capture the flag or score a goal with ease.

 

This tactic is also written on the wiki page of Control Points:

Then, together with your team-mates, you should try to drive the enemy out of the remaining points, and to lock them inside their own base.

But it also ruins battles because when players realize they can't bounce back, they'll just leave, making their team even weaker, resulting in blow out matches.

[Potdindy 866]

Teams is the key factor.

 

Either a very strong team on one side or a weak team on the other - or combination.

The Team then controls the map.  Once you have control of the map you have the supply drops and the "higher ground".

Once the Team has control it scores faster and thus generates OverDrive faster.  Now it's a positive feedback loop and the powerful stay more powerful.

 

Another way "teams" become more powerful is through sheer numbers.

1) MatchMaker is a terrible system and I've seen 8 players start playing on one team while the other has 4 active players.  See above.

2) Once a team starts losing, you can have desertions. Once this starts, the numbers make it easy for Spawn-killing to begin.

I kinda wish teams were bigger, thus balancing out stronger players hopefully more often. Ive seen some 12v12 old games, with no spawning...I did also see players with ridiculous k/ds tho in those games too so idk

[TWICE 798]

But it also ruins battles because when players realize they can't bounce back, they'll just leave, making their team even weaker, resulting in blow out matches.

Yes, that's why the system would end the battle earlier when the number of players in the teams were very uneven before MM was introduced.  I still don't understand why they take away this nice mechanism.

 

 

I kinda wish teams were bigger, thus balancing out stronger players hopefully more often. Ive seen some 12v12 old games, with no spawning...I did also see players with ridiculous k/ds tho in those games too so idk

You are on the point.  More is always better than less in any online games.  It was much easier to get 3-4 other teammates to work together in the old 12v12 or 10v10 battles.  But, it is really random and lucky if I can stick with 2 other teammates to work as a group in those 8v8 MM battles these days.

[TankiNoob2000 231]

Hammer should be nerfed. It's a definite spawn kill weapon

[Potdindy 866]

Hammer should be nerfed. It's a definite spawn kill weapon

Basically all short range turrets are great at spawn killing. Fire/freeze/hammer/isida/twins...all of these can end you quickly. I just played several games in highland and both games had a lot of powerful viking assaults....Titan was MVP here. Providing that dome allowed our team to continually rally and drive the attackers back.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Basically all short range turrets are great at spawn killing. Fire/freeze/hammer/isida/twins...all of these can end you quickly. I just played several games in highland and both games had a lot of powerful viking assaults....Titan was MVP here. Providing that dome allowed our team to continually rally and drive the attackers back.

If a titan was on the enemy team, you'd have a lot of trouble taking it down if it was spawn killing you.

[Potdindy 866]

If a titan was on the enemy team, you'd have a lot of trouble taking it down if it was spawn killing you.

True but that dome isnt that big. In highland yes, but defending titans or mamothers will respawn and hopefully be able to fight back. That is a good observation tho. Highland is a small map that also spawns in a choke point which can lead to massacre