Declined Making Tanki Great Again -- quality post

[Picassoo 134]

TL; DR: Bring back the game to its old state or allow PRO battles to work like in 2015. The game was way more fun at that time. Everything explained in detail under the spoiler:

 

 

As all old players know, the game used to be way more fun than it is now. 2014-15 were arguably the best years for Tanki Online. However, since 2016 the game is constantly declining. Although this is partly because of people losing interest in it, the major reason is bad updates. Changing drug cooldowns, adding drones and overdrives, as well introducing matchmaking battles to push down PRO battles (nowadays the former are surely the most profitable) made the game way worse than it used to be. Challenges and the new score system make defense obsolete when it comes to earning stars and scoring points. Because of this, most players just leave cover and rush at enemies to score points. None of them have a niche role in battle anymore.

Another problem is Magnum. It makes cover unreliable and makes PRO battles, specifically Noise CTF, but also Serpuhov CTF a terrible experience. It simply spoils the game for other players, which is especially noticeable in non-drug battles since you cannot just repair your tank. During the 7 minutes of a battle people just rush for the flag without thinking, so that the score changes quite rapidly. Capturing a flag is nothing special, besides that it gives you extra points. Nobody cares about the team score -- the battle is just a few minutes long after all.

 

Now in 2014 the gameplay was way more fun. Playing with friends was way easier in player-created battles. People played on maps they actually liked: Serpuhov, Rio, Sandbox, Kolhoz, Polygon, Esplanade...

Each role in battle was very important -- Mammoths for defense, midfielding Smokies and Thunders, as well as light/medium tanks supported by Isidas for attacking. The gameplay was slower and involved more strategy. Often a group of tanks would stick around the corner, waiting for a good moment to attack, while the defenders would try to survive the fire of enemy mid-range support.

Attacking involved teamwork, not just one-man pushes on drugs.

In order to advance on the battlefield, you had to move carefully from cover to cover, watching for enemy Shafts.

Defenders would usually stay in one place, while attackers would continously try to push successfully.

Battles were longer, and capping a flag was quite an achievement.

 

Besides the gameplay itself, the game was better in another way: winning a battle actually mattered. The longer the game lasted, the bigger the stakes were. Teamwork was key. Epic clutch captures, heroic defenses -- all of that used to be an integral part of the game.

 

People who played in 2014 know all of this very well. Now why introduce matchmaking? Why all these updates? Did players ask for them? Did we not keep insisting on reverting the game?

I assume the reason is that the devs need to show that they are working on something; that is what they are paid for, and that is why they introduce 'innovative' features that seem good, but have no positive impact on the gameplay.

 

 

I know that ideas for bringing back the game to its previous state are considered invalid. But that was so long ago. The game has lost players. Why? The reason is obvious. I bet it is not as profitable anymore, even with more and more P2W features. Especially since you gave away XT's in challenges (even though you stated that they will only be available in the shop and containers), buyers do not trust you anymore.

 

Some players try playing PRO battles, since they are more similair to 2014 gameplay than MM battles. However, Magnum spoils the fun for them. I hardly ever see Noise CTF anymore. Those who used to play it simply gave up.

 

Even though bringing back the game to its past state would be the best thing to do, I do not expect the developers to do this -- if they listened to players that much, they would have done it already.

 

However, some other things could partly remedy this:

Adding an option to create battles in which using Magnum would be forbidden. This could also be a format available exclusively to turrets (and hulls, since there is a new one to come) introduced before 2016.

 

Another option is to rework drugs. Make their active time, cooldowns and smart cooldowns longer.

 

I also believe the score system in MM should be changed to reward all roles in a battle, be it defense, attack, midfielding or sniping.

[Maf 32,336]

Declined
 
TL; DR: We still don't accept ideas about reverting Tanki to a previous state
 

 

the major reason is bad updates.

You don't know that. In fact, I can guarantee you that you're wrong. After all, if Hazel Rah is the man responsible for designing most of the changes in the game since 2013 (I think) and those changes were actually bad, do you think he would be immortalised as a 10-year anniversary gift stamp, let alone still be working at Tanki?
 
 

During the 7 minutes of a battle people just rush for the flag without thinking, so that the score changes quite rapidly.

That's what Tanki is meant to be - a fast-paced arcade game with maximum action. If you want careful thinking and strategy, then there's PRO battles. But analytics have shown that the majority of players plays more when battles are of the Matchmaking type.
 
 

Now in 2014 the gameplay was way more fun. Playing with friends was way easier in player-created battles. People played on maps they actually liked: Serpuhov, Rio, Sandbox, Kolhoz, Polygon, Esplanade...

This is up for debate, but I remember it differently. All servers were full of the same 3 or 4 maps - Polygon, Silence, Sandbox and Serpuhov. There were very rarely any interesting battles on other maps, and if you tried to create one yourself, it would take ages for it to fill with players (if it filled at all). In my opinion the best time was when the "Battle!" button was added and standard battles were created automatically with a much wider variety of maps, but you could still choose the map to join.
 
 

Besides the gameplay itself, the game was better in another way: winning a battle actually mattered.

And losing the battle meant you get basically nothing. In that sense MM is better - losing is no longer so massively demotivating, while winning does give better bonuses (more stars and extra crystals)
 
 

Now why introduce matchmaking? Why all these updates? Did players ask for them? Did we not keep insisting on reverting the game?

People vote on updates by playing or not playing the game. Back in 2015 when the game had no updates and everything was kept as is, players didn't complain - they simply got bored and left. Then new updates happened, including stuff like modules, overdrives and matchmaking. Did players complain? Yes, more than ever. But guess what? Player retention improved and the number of hours played per person greatly increased.
 
The reality is that the thing that the majority asks for is not always the best thing to do. This applies not only to games, but other industries and even politics.
 
 

Even though bringing back the game to its past state would be the best thing to do, I do not expect the developers to do this -- if they listened to players that much, they would have done it already.

It's not the best thing to do. Even if it would somehow bring more players back, the costs and effort required to do it are so astronomically huge that it would probably be cheaper and better to develop a whole new game from scratch, which is basically what devs are doing with things like Tanki on HTML5 and other projects like King Hardcore.

 

However, some other things could partly remedy this:
Adding an option to create battles in which using Magnum would be forbidden. This could also be a format available exclusively to turrets (and hulls, since there is a new one to come) introduced before 2016.

Option to restrict specific turrets.
Although it's not going to happen. The number of people playing PRO battles is so small that it's not worth developing any major new feature for them.

I also believe the score system in MM should be changed to reward all roles in a battle, be it defense, attack, midfielding or sniping.

That sounds useful, but you have to post a separate topic explaining exactly how it would work and how the system would automatically detect that you're actively defending and not just sitting in a corner or uselessly camping with Shaft.

[ILiveOnTheChatBox123 936]

Shafts just ruin all battles!

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Winning battles actually still matters. It's just that now losing battles won't feel like a waste of time, effort, or supplies.

[r_Spytank2 129]

I started playing in 2015 and I tell you this is all true

[Picassoo 134]

Shafts just ruin all battles!

Even more so -- Magnums. Imagine a Shaft hitting you behind a house :0

[Picassoo 134]

Declined

 

TL; DR: We still don't accept ideas about reverting Tanki to a previous state

 

 

 

 

 

1. You don't know that. In fact, I can guarantee you that you're wrong. After all, if Hazel Rah is the man responsible for designing most of the changes in the game since 2013 (I think) and those changes were actually bad, do you think he would be immortalised as a 10-year anniversary gift stamp, let alone still be working at Tanki?

 

 

That's what Tanki is meant to be - a fast-paced arcade game with maximum action. If you want careful thinking and strategy, then there's PRO battles. But analytics have shown that the majority of players plays more when battles are of the Matchmaking type.

 

 

This is up for debate, but I remember it differently. All servers were full of the same 3 or 4 maps - Polygon, Silence, Sandbox and Serpuhov. There were very rarely any interesting battles on other maps, and if you tried to create one yourself, it would take ages for it to fill with players (if it filled at all). In my opinion the best time was when the "Battle!" button was added and standard battles were created automatically with a much wider variety of maps, but you could still choose the map to join.

 

 

And losing the battle meant you get basically nothing. In that sense MM is better - losing is no longer so massively demotivating, while winning does give better bonuses (more stars and extra crystals)

 

 

2. People vote on updates by playing or not playing the game. Back in 2015 when the game had no updates and everything was kept as is, players didn't complain - they simply got bored and left. Then new updates happened, including stuff like modules, overdrives and matchmaking. Did players complain? Yes, more than ever. But guess what? Player retention improved and the number of hours played per person greatly increased.

 

3. The reality is that the thing that the majority asks for is not always the best thing to do. This applies not only to games, but other industries and even politics.

 

 

4. It's not the best thing to do. Even if it would somehow bring more players back, the costs and effort required to do it are so astronomically huge that it would probably be cheaper and better to develop a whole new game from scratch, which is basically what devs are doing with things like Tanki on HTML5 and other projects like King Hardcore.

 

 

 

Option to restrict specific turrets.

Although it's not going to happen. The number of people playing PRO battles is so small that it's not worth developing any major new feature for

1.

The game had over twice as many players active at the same time in 2017. Even six months ago, before new overdrives and challenges were introduced, the game had 30% more players online.

The game has never declined so rapidly before.

Most games remain what they originally were and decline way less.

 

The gift stamp has nothing to do with this. Also, maybe Semyon's manager gives such ideas? How about marketers?

 

PRO battles got spoiled by Magnum. Also, now you cannot play them until WO1, meaning that new players do not get introduced to them. That was the purpose, I guess. What else could that serve?

 

Turrets are balanced without taking PRO battles into account. Best examples are Firebird (and alterations with burning effect) and Magnum.

 

Majority of players play MM. They simply grind through challenges. But even they are becoming a smaller and smaller group.

Also, the reason is that the devs tried destroying PRO. They are way more successful in that than in making MM fun.

 

There were more maps created. Remember Noise, Kolhoz and Rio? Also Esplanade. And those were the maps people loved. That is why they were popular. Why did no one play Magistral? Or other MM maps? Because they are boring.

Now PRO is not that much fun due to the fact that less people play them and because Magnum spoiled the maps I mentioned.

 

Winning did make a difference. The distribution of the fund was different. Also, the battles used to be longer.

 

 

2.

Players did get bored and leave. Yet the playerbase did not decline much until the 2016/17 updates kicked in.

Now the game is declining faster even in numbers, let alone the percentage of players quitting.

 

Most people prefered the game before the updates came. At the time you did not care about what 80% of the people said. Now, when most of them quit, you suddenly started caring about the majority. And even now I don't think MM is so popular (percentage-wise, since surely the current playerbase is not comparable to that of 2014 or even 2017). Quite many people still hate it.

 

 

3.

Yes, this is often the case, especially with taxes. But it didn't work for TO. The devs had two years to think why the playerbase decline has been increasing so rapidly, and yet they take what they were doing further, leaving us with 25% less players online throughout compared to Fall of 2018. And you said that people play more Tanki on average now. Does that mean we lost 40-50% players in half a year?

 

 

4.

They did it before, and it does not involve many new mechanics. Can't be that hard.

 

 

To sum up, we are left with 20% of the old playerbase, a large amount of it being MM players grinding through challenges. This is surely less profitable in the end, and leaves the games future questionable.

I'd speculate that if the game remained the same since 2015, we would be left with way more players, and the game would still be an equally good (or better) source of revenue as it is now.

[Maf 32,336]

 Also, maybe Semyon's manager gives such ideas? How about marketers?

He's the lead game designer. He makes the decisions. Yes, he's constrained by the game's necessity to remain profitable, but gameplay-related things which do not directly affect the economy are designed by him.

 

 Why did no one play Magistral? Or other MM maps? Because they are boring.

Speak for yourself  <_>

Magistral used to be my favourite map and I always wanted to play a 12v12 XP/BP CTF match on it. I love how the spawn locations are arranged in the PRO version.

Besides this personal preference of mine, people played maps which resulted in the highest fund/hour ratios. They played maps which gave the most crystals - simple as that.

 

 

Anyway, I won't argue about the rest of the points since both of us can merely speculate what the game would have been if development was different. If Tanki stayed as it was, everyone would have been long gone years ago. A game does not stay relevant by remaining the same, and even a controversial change is almost always more beneficial than no change at all. This is what the developers say when asked about why they are making these updates. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.

[Picassoo 134]

Speak for yourself <_<

Magistral used to be my favourite map and I always wanted to play a 12v12 XP/BP CTF match on it. I love how the spawn locations are arranged in the PRO version.

Besides this personal preference of mine, people played maps which resulted in the highest fund/hour ratios. They played maps which gave the most crystals - simple as that.

 

 

Anyway, I won't argue about the rest of the points since both of us can merely speculate what the game would have been if development was different. If Tanki stayed as it was, everyone would have been long gone years ago. A game does not stay relevant by remaining the same, and even a controversial change is almost always more beneficial than no change at all. This is what the developers say when asked about why they are making these updates. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.

Ah yes, XP/BP :)

 

Polygon was surely the best crystal farm, yet it wasn't the most popular map. Sure, some people just get addicted and grind, but there's more to it than that.

 

I once wanted to get skins. I ground through an entire challenge. My brother even helped me because I was so bored of grinding. After that I noticed it wasn't worth it. Now I play Serpuhov CTF from time to time, no drugs, just drops. It is fun, provided there is no more than one Magnum on the enemy team. Best if there are none.

 

Still, this is nothing like playing on my old account in 2014. :(

 

Also, a good game will stay relevant.

Some old players will get bored, but new will come to check it out. Tanki used to be a unique and fun game in the past.

Now old players keep quitting, but new ones have no reason to stay. The game is just like any other.

 

Yet somehow I still hope they will come back. Of course, lots of players have left and TO YouTube is dead, but the gameplay itself matters, too.