Episode 232 of the V-LOG is live!

[Jay 1,431]

2 minutes ago, lssimo said:

What if Splash Damage behaves different depending on the surface the projectile hits?

On dirt, like on the lower ground of Noise hit by Magnums, the Splash Damage will be weak. On concreate higher and on metal, like tanks, depending on penetration, or some ramps, highest.

?

 

 

 

Then each turret's damages will not be consistent. There are some maps with lots of concrete items and there are also maps with very few concrete items and more dirt. Each turret has its own strengths and weaknesses for different scenarios and maps. But, the damage of these turrets shouldn't be dictated by the map. It should be consistent all around

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

I agree with Wolverine. It retains too much of its total damage too far out. 

 

If the person being locked onto has the marker indicating they're being locked onto, that doesn't stop a teammate 10 metres away from the target collecting almost as much as the damage the locked-on person got, and possibly dying too. 

You sound as if you think the Gauss can shoot through walls.

 

If the person being locked on to reacts accordingly to the indicator, by getting behind cover, and the teammate sees the reaction and is smart, then that should be enough of a hint of who's out there doing what.

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

You sound as if you think the Gauss can shoot through walls.

 

If the person being locked on to reacts accordingly to the indicator, by getting behind cover, and the teammate sees the reaction and is smart, then that should be enough of a hint of who's out there doing what.

Triple and quad kills are the problem - not single players taking a snipe-shot.

Suck it up butter-cup : take the hit, use an RK, and move under cover.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

41 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Triple and quad kills are the problem - not single players taking a snipe-shot.

Suck it up butter-cup : take the hit, use an RK, and move under cover.

If you're scared of getting splashed on, then just stay away from your teammates. Problem solved. 

 

I bet if I only target lone players with the sniper shot, I'd still do well.

 

The splash isn't the problem, they just add on to the problem. The real problem is the fact that Gauss can lock on to you and you wouldn't even realize it until too late.

[iWillHealYou 220]

16 hours ago, Ninja said:

I will miss the old bushes for sure :c

I really want to ask, who demanded the New Bushes? Literally, I have never seen someone demanding the New Bushes

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, iWillHealYou said:

I really want to ask, who demanded the New Bushes? Literally, I have never seen someone demanding the New Bushes

I hope they don't make the game lag. I already had trouble getting back onto the HTML5 version.

[lssimo 1,559]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Then each turret's damages will not be consistent. There are some maps with lots of concrete items and there are also maps with very few concrete items and more dirt. Each turret has its own strengths and weaknesses for different scenarios and maps. But, the damage of these turrets shouldn't be dictated by the map. It should be consistent all around

Good point, it was a wild idea.

So, the Splash damage shouldn't depend on terrain or structure differences.

But maybe there should be a difference when a projectile hits a tank or no moving objectes. I'm not sure if more or less, but I'm thinking about reducing the damage during spawn killings.

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

If you're scared of getting splashed on, then just stay away from your teammates. Problem solved. 

 

I bet if I only target lone players with the sniper shot, I'd still do well.

 

The splash isn't the problem, they just add on to the problem. The real problem is the fact that Gauss can lock on to you and you wouldn't even realize it until too late.

Why is this a problem?   In many (most?) cases it does not result in a kill on undamaged tanks.

Why do you need to know you are being locked on?  If you just assume you are being targeted by someone, from somewhere, and act accordingly, you will be hit less often

 

Shaft can pretty much do the same thing - only it DOES result in a kill.  Users of shaft have found a way to get around the laser (hide it until needed).  And there's many maps they don't even need to do that - can kill someone as they spawn in the open. Have been killed many, many times this way by shaft.

 

I use Gauss on my other account.  Some battles it does very well.  Others - not so well. A lot depends on the map and your team.  I don't get killed by Gauss any more than by any other turret - on either account.  Not sure why it's such a thorn in your side...

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

Why is this a problem?   In many (most?) cases it does not result in a kill on undamaged tanks.

Why do you need to know you are being locked on?  If you just assume you are being targeted by someone, from somewhere, and act accordingly, you will be hit less often

 

  Not sure why it's such a thorn in your side...

Does not need to always result in a kill to be a problem. It's damage is high enough that you would need a repair kit for just that moment which is a waste since, you would have to wait for 30 seconds to use another one or travel through dangerous territory when trouble comes.

 

You could argue that railgun can do the same thing, however, you can easily knock it's aim off depending on what hull they're using. But Gauss has that 2 second grace period, so it can just latch right back on you easily.

 

Railgun trail hangs for awhile whereas gauss's trail disappears almost instantly.

 

That's why it needs an indicator.

 

I could ask you why it's splash mechanics are a problem, but I already told you what to do to reduce the chances of being splashed on.

[r_Given6 859]

6 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

If you're scared of getting splashed on, then just stay away from your teammates. Problem solved. 

 

I bet if I only target lone players with the sniper shot, I'd still do well.

 

The splash isn't the problem, they just add on to the problem. The real problem is the fact that Gauss can lock on to you and you wouldn't even realize it until too late.

Surprise attacks aren't much of a problem. Gauss needs to lock on, Magnum and Railgun don't. You can get one-shot without knowing with these turrets too. I do agree that there should always be a way to respond/avoid any attack, but these turrets work on the principle of surprise. If I get hit by a Gauss shot, it deals more damage than a Railgun hit. But at least I can target the enemy when it comes out to lock again. With Railgun's peek-a-boo tactics, it's two shots and death. Also Gauss requires you to be continuously in the line of sight. If we completely ignore the skill required (the way people do when ranting about Magnum), the target still has to be out in the open for a while, while in the case of other turrets like Shaft and Railgun, it's one peek and boom, you're dead.

The problem that I definitely agree needs to be resolved is the splash radius. If I'm hiding behind a barrier and shooting down the enemy, I don't care whether the freelancer near me gets shot by a Railgun or a Shaft. But I sure don't want to get hurt due to that guy. 

Thunder's shot or a single Striker's rocket- I can avoid by moving away after the first shot, with little difference in health.

Striker's lock on- I can move away before the barrage of rockets lands.

Magnum's shot- huge splash damage in a close radius, but it's not actually the fault of the teammate, right? 

Gauss lock-on shot- again, high damage, but this time, my defensive barrier was rendered useless just because of that teammate sitting in the open, and not even very close. Not quite ideal, is it?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

4 minutes ago, Given said:

1) Surprise attacks aren't much of a problem. Gauss needs to lock on, Magnum and Railgun don't. You can get one-shot without knowing with these turrets too. I do agree that there should always be a way to respond/avoid any attack, but these turrets work on the principle of surprise. If I get hit by a Gauss shot, it deals more damage than a Railgun hit. But at least I can target the enemy when it comes out to lock again. With Railgun's peek-a-boo tactics, it's two shots and death. Also Gauss requires you to be continuously in the line of sight. If we completely ignore the skill required (the way people do when ranting about Magnum), the target still has to be out in the open for a while, while in the case of other turrets like Shaft and Railgun, it's one peek and boom, you're dead.

The problem that I definitely agree needs to be resolved is the splash radius. If I'm hiding behind a barrier and shooting down the enemy, I don't care whether the freelancer near me gets shot by a Railgun or a Shaft. But I sure don't want to get hurt due to that guy. 

Thunder's shot or a single Striker's rocket- I can avoid by moving away after the first shot, with little difference in health.

Striker's lock on- I can move away before the barrage of rockets lands.

Magnum's shot- huge splash damage in a close radius, but it's not actually the fault of the teammate, right? 

2) Gauss lock-on shot- again, high damage, but this time, my defensive barrier was rendered useless just because of that teammate sitting in the open, and not even very close. Not quite ideal, is it?

1) Magnum has a long reload time, and the projectile takes a while to hit the ground depending on how far up you shot it. Railgun has that delay light which can be used to know when it'll fire and trail that gives away it's location. Shaft has to be immobile to snipe, and that laser which gives people a warning. What does Gauss have that are disadvantages besides the self damage and the Fox ears?

 

2) you're partly to blame for that. My advice is to stay away from the teammate that is an obvious target, and you wouldn't get splashed on.

[r_Given6 859]

57 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

1) Magnum has a long reload time, and the projectile takes a while to hit the ground depending on how far up you shot it. Railgun has that delay light which can be used to know when it'll fire and trail that gives away it's location. Shaft has to be immobile to snipe, and that laser which gives people a warning. What does Gauss have that are disadvantages besides the self damage and the Fox ears?

 

2) you're partly to blame for that. My advice is to stay away from the teammate that is an obvious target, and you wouldn't get splashed on.

1) The Railgun flash and the Gauss 'ears' are visible only when you're facing them. You have some time to spot the Gauss, but can't react to a Railgun shot in time unless it came out into the open and then fired its shot.

2) Not at all, I have no blame. It was I who was hiding in the first place when the freelancer came about, otherwise I would have choosen a distant spot, anyway. And it's certainly not my duty to keep track of such freelancers; only watch out for the enemies.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, Given said:

1) The Railgun flash and the Gauss 'ears' are visible only when you're facing them. You have some time to spot the Gauss, but can't react to a Railgun shot in time unless it came out into the open and then fired its shot.

2) Not at all, I have no blame. It was I who was hiding in the first place when the freelancer came about, otherwise I would have choosen a distant spot, anyway. And it's certainly not my duty to keep track of such freelancers; only watch out for the enemies.

1) not even a second before guass's lock on is complete where as railgun delay is 1.1 seconds.

 

2) then why you say that it's splash mechanics are a problem, when really they just add on to the real problem. If I had a problem with splash damage, I would stay as far away from them as possible. Hell I would go as far as to push them off the ledge. But I don't have a problem with splash at all.

 

Yes I've died to being splashed, but that's either because of my mistakes or my teammates mistakes. I should've kept my distance from them, but again I don't have a problem with splash.

 

The difference between me and you guys who say that the splash is the real problem is that at least I'll admit it when I'm wrong, just like the difference between the splash problem and the stealth problem of Gauss is that at least the splash problem can be dealt with whereas there is no counter to the stealth problem.

[r_Given6 859]

1 hour ago, DieselPlatinum said:

1) not even a second before guass's lock on is complete where as railgun delay is 1.1 seconds.

 

2) then why you say that it's splash mechanics are a problem, when really they just add on to the real problem. If I had a problem with splash damage, I would stay as far away from them as possible. Hell I would go as far as to push them off the ledge. But I don't have a problem with splash at all.

 

Yes I've died to being splashed, but that's either because of my mistakes or my teammates mistakes. I should've kept my distance from them, but again I don't have a problem with splash.

1) Gauss takes more time in the lower modifications.

2) Okay, so imagine this:

You're on the lower end of Serpuhov ASL, making way for the flag bearers by shooting/sniping down the enemies, hiding behind a building during the reload. 

A Wasp spawns and comes out from the cover into the open space near you, gets locked on and shot by the Gauss, killing both his and your tank (from the massive splash). 

How the heck were you supposed to 'keep your distance'? By running away from all spawning teammates?

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

1) not even a second before guass's lock on is complete where as railgun delay is 1.1 seconds.

 

2) then why you say that it's splash mechanics are a problem, when really they just add on to the real problem. If I had a problem with splash damage, I would stay as far away from them as possible. Hell I would go as far as to push them off the ledge. But I don't have a problem with splash at all.

Yes I've died to being splashed, but that's either because of my mistakes or my teammates mistakes. I should've kept my distance from them, but again I don't have a problem with splash.

 

The difference between me and you guys who say that the splash is the real problem is that at least I'll admit it when I'm wrong, just like the difference between the splash problem and the stealth problem of Gauss is that at least the splash problem can be dealt with whereas there is no counter to the stealth problem.

What do you mean "not even a second before..."?  If you are comparing to Rail "delay" then it's 2 seconds for Gauss. And Rail can start that "delay" under cover while Gauss needs to be in the open.

Rail can fire every 3.7 seconds.  Gauss can snipe every 5 seconds.

 

How is using a repair kit when hit by a gauss shot a "waste"?  It's likely doing > 50% of your health.  Use the RK to survive (at least one more shot) and move.  No different than a hit from any other high-damage turret that does not kill you outright.

 

It's a tank game - it's inevitable that you WILL be hit.  It's what happens after that first hit that is important.

A "snipe" shot that deals a lot of damage to one target just should not be doing a huge amount of damage to other targets in the vicinity.

 

Guess we have different philosophies on this.  You want to reduce the chance of getting off the shot outright.  I want to to reduce the collateral damage that comes from actually getting that hit.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

7 hours ago, Given said:

1) Gauss takes more time in the lower modifications.

2) Okay, so imagine this:

You're on the lower end of Serpuhov ASL, making way for the flag bearers by shooting/sniping down the enemies, hiding behind a building during the reload. 

A Wasp spawns and comes out from the cover into the open space near you, gets locked on and shot by the Gauss, killing both his and your tank (from the massive splash). 

How the heck were you supposed to 'keep your distance'? By running away from all spawning teammates?

2) it may be harder than it sounds, but yes. If you keep an eye on your surroundings and assume that that wasp was a marked target 2 seconds prior,  you would've suffered much less damage or even  not any at all. Also that's a problem with the flawed mechanics of the game mode combined with gauss's stealth ability, the splash mechanics just add on to it.

3 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

 

 

1) How is using a repair kit when hit by a gauss shot a "waste"?  It's likely doing > 50% of your health.  Use the RK to survive (at least one more shot) and move.  No different than a hit from any other high-damage turret that does not kill you outright.

 

2) It's a tank game - it's inevitable that you WILL be hit.  It's what happens after that first hit that is important.

A "snipe" shot that deals a lot of damage to one target just should not be doing a huge amount of damage to other targets in the vicinity.

 

 

1) because what if you use it and move behind cover, and yet you get hit by it again? You won't be able to use another repair kit for 30 seconds. At least railgun has a trail that lasts a while. Gauss trail just disappears almost instantly.

 

2) of course it's impossible not to be hit by any turret, but that's not the point. The point is that Gauss has the highest hit rate and probably kill rate in the game because of that stealth ability. Might not be as much damage in one shot as shaft, but it's still enough to be up there.

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

1) because what if you use it and move behind cover, and yet you get hit by it again? You won't be able to use another repair kit for 30 seconds. At least railgun has a trail that lasts a while. Gauss trail just disappears almost instantly.

 

2) of course it's impossible not to be hit by any turret, but that's not the point. The point is that Gauss has the highest hit rate and probably kill rate in the game because of that stealth ability. Might not be as much damage in one shot as shaft, but it's still enough to be up there.

1)  Not sure how you are getting hit by it again if under cover - but - even if you do you are not dead since you used the RK. You still have options.

2) IMO Shaft has higher kill rate and as Rail fires faster could have a higher hit rate.  Gauss slots in the middle as it really needs the snipe to do much.  It's regular shot is fairly weak and when forced up close it's even weaker than rail - since it can self-damage significantly with that large and powerful splash effect.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

1)  Not sure how you are getting hit by it again if under cover - but - even if you do you are not dead since you used the RK. You still have options.

2) IMO Shaft has higher kill rate and as Rail fires faster could have a higher hit rate.  Gauss slots in the middle as it really needs the snipe to do much.  It's regular shot is fairly weak and when forced up close it's even weaker than rail - since it can self-damage significantly with that large and powerful splash effect.

 

3) We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

1) but again the Gauss can reload 4 times in the time it takes for the second repair to cool down.

 

2) shaft has to be immobile to snipe, so they're moving via turret controls alone, and the only way to speed it up is speed boost. And it's pointless trying to snipe something that keeps knocking you're aim off, might as well cancel and relocate, while Gauss is a mobile sniper and has to lock on just long enough to fire. And railgun only has the amount of time after firing to reach and stay on the target before it goes off, other wise it's a detrimental turn of events, where as Gauss has the grace period. Also this does not mean this. Railgun has a faster firing rate, but Gauss has more successful hits, so it has a higher hit rate.

 

3) Alright fine.

[Viking4s 10,791]

So, according the the test server the Mk system applies to turrets as well as hulls and protection modules.

Always tell half the story so we have a surprise. 

It all make sens to have all three equipment modified, for one it simplify the headache of the product kit. Protection module starting at 5% is better than starting at 10% especially since Brutus. It looks like there is no M0 protection module, you buy directly at MK1 at 5%.

Protection modules

 5 % Mk1 - 5 MU
10% Mk2 - 5 MU
15% Mk3 - 5 MU
20% Mk4 - 5 MU
25% Mk5 - 5 MU
30% Mk6 - 5 MU
35% Mk7 - 15 MU

 

Wasp (here again no MK0)

Wasp   Modification   MU   Weight kg
Recruit   M0    -     - 
Private   Mk1   ?   1000
Staff Sergeant   Mk2   ?   1176
Sergent major   M1 / Mk3   ?   1265
WO4   Mk4   ?   1382
Captain   Mk5   ?   150
Colonel   M2 / Mk6   10 MU   1618
Marshal   M3 / Mk7   20 MU   1765
 -    M3+ / Mk7+      2000
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Viking4s

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

8 hours ago, Viking4s said:

Spoiler

 

So, according the the test server the Mk system applies to turrets as well as hulls and protection modules.

Always tell half the story so we have a surprise. 

It all make sens to have all three equipment modified, for one it simplify the headache of the product kit. Protection module starting at 5% is better than starting at 10% especially since Brutus. It looks like there is no M0 protection module, you buy directly at MK1 at 5%.

Protection modules

 5 % Mk1 - 5 MU
10% Mk2 - 5 MU
15% Mk3 - 5 MU
20% Mk4 - 5 MU
25% Mk5 - 5 MU
30% Mk6 - 5 MU
35% Mk7 - 15 MU

 

Wasp (here again no MK0)

Wasp   Modification   MU   Weight kg
Recruit   M0    -     - 
Private   Mk1   ?   1000
Staff Sergeant   Mk2   ?   1176
Sergent major   M1 / Mk3   ?   1265
WO4   Mk4   ?   1382
Captain   Mk5   ?   150
Colonel   M2 / Mk6   10 MU   1618
Marshal   M3 / Mk7   120MU   1765
 -    M3 + / Mk7+      2000
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if it'll help me get my currently 28% protections up a bit. But I do know that this will end my dreams of having an m4 combo without having to rank up to Marshall and play with exploiting legends.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Leur
Kindly use spoiler when quoting long text.

[sunhawk 99]

On 12/6/2019 at 12:24 PM, SamGamgee55 said:

Seige mode is going to be devoid of any strategy. Just rush in with twins/titan and shoot...

It will probably be a lot like the old Polygon control points. Remember that? Crystal-farming bloodbath of firebirds and twins, with thunders splashing the area from medium range? Average life-span: 3 seconds. Which means it will probably be popular despite the bone-headed play style. In fact, maybe even more so because there will be the 'thrill' of scrambling to get to each new point 'firstest with the mostest'.

 

I don't know, could be interesting. Each new point will be in different surroundings; most turrets will probably be able to get in on the action, but sometimes they will have to scramble.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, sunhawk said:

It will probably be a lot like the old Polygon control points. Remember that? Crystal-farming bloodbath of firebirds and twins, with thunders splashing the area from medium range? Average life-span: 3 seconds. Which means it will probably be popular despite the bone-headed play style. In fact, maybe even more so because there will be the 'thrill' of scrambling to get to each new point 'firstest with the mostest'.

 

I don't know, could be interesting. Each new point will be in different surroundings; most turrets will probably be able to get in on the action, but sometimes they will have to scramble.

I've always disliked Poly CP, but you could get lots of XP there. This new mode won't even have that and will just be a boring drugfest that lasts for 5 minutes.

[sunhawk 99]

9 minutes ago, SamGamgee55 said:

I've always disliked Poly CP, but you could get lots of XP there. This new mode won't even have that and will just be a boring drugfest that lasts for 5 minutes.

And I wonder if some players will do a lot of gold-dropping (which I've also disliked, as everybody abandons the game-mode objective) to pull enemies away from the point. That will be what passes for strategy, I guess.

 

All battles in MM are drugfests these days. While I'm on memory lane, remember about six years ago when the battle-chat would be full of 'drugger!' and 'buyer' if someone used supplies too obviously? Tanki has done a good job of changing that.

Edited December 9, 2019 by sunhawk

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, sunhawk said:

 

All battles in MM are drugfests these days. While I'm on memory lane, remember about six years ago when the battle-chat would be full of 'drugger!' and 'buyer' if someone used supplies too obviously? Tanki has done a good job of changing that.

For the worse if you ask me. In the past, you needed positioning, strategy, and tactics to outwit the enemy. Maps had much more stealth routes back then, allowing a frail Wasp (which wasn't just a "better" version of hornet back then) to sneak past defenders and swipe the flag. Now those attack routes are gone and everyone spams supplies brainlessly.

 

Sure, I have enough drugs to compete. But do I like to win because "oh that player's double armor ran out so I could kill him"? All this druspam makes getting kills feel fake, as for the only reason why you won was that you had your drugs enabled and you had the OP turret of the month.

 

Tanki "fixed" druggers, but at what cost? These days there are less than 20k players online, with the numbers decreasing with each horrible and distasteful updates that these egotistical developers release.

[sunhawk 99]

18 minutes ago, SamGamgee55 said:

For the worse if you ask me. In the past, you needed positioning, strategy, and tactics to outwit the enemy. Maps had much more stealth routes back then, allowing a frail Wasp (which wasn't just a "better" version of hornet back then) to sneak past defenders and swipe the flag. Now those attack routes are gone and everyone spams supplies brainlessly.

 

Sure, I have enough drugs to compete. But do I like to win because "oh that player's double armor ran out so I could kill him"? All this druspam makes getting kills feel fake, as for the only reason why you won was that you had your drugs enabled and you had the OP turret of the month.

Oh I agree with you completely. Tanki has been very clever, I mean. I think it's helped their bottom line a lot, but degraded the game. Everything is aimed at making it easier to kill and be killed. They want the shortest possible life-span for all players in the battle; it increases frustration and the immediate quest for more dopamine; spawn and re-spawn. Despite their constant talk of strategy and tactics, they've removed a lot of that deliberately.