Um... explanations for new overdrive situation????

[vulcanrage 22]

Edit: Because of the ease of all players having supplies activated. To remove that ability entirely with a game effect in my view does offer either a severe advantage to the one/ severe disadvantage to the other. 

 

This would be different if use of supplies at all times was rare. To be attacked by an opponent not equipped with drugs, disabling your drug and then its a fair fight.

 

But this is hardly the case. Hunters I see regularly have drugs equipped. Come up to an opponent disable theres, and kill them.

 

Firebird Hunter is devastating and seems to be a favoured choice in battles. Along with many other good combos. So yes, to have a game where drugs are readily available to all, and then cancel that for some tanks in a head to head combat. That will disadvantage them. Now if that was the sole ability of hunter, without any of the rest. No freeze, no deactivating ODs, no dropping rugby and flags. You just lost your drugs. And couldn't use drugs again for 30 seconds. That would not be so broken. 

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Titan's nerf was much needed. It's still strong but not stupidly overpowered. 

 

Hate to say it, if you can't play with Titan's OD, you're just bad at the game. Period. There's a time and place to activate it and it's definitely not when an OD mammoth is rushing you. You simply shouldn't have hunter as a problem because you should be aiming to kill the hunter the moment you see it within range. I have no problems with playing OD Titan. 

 

You can't complain that your OD is no longer invincible. If you haven't realized, none of the other ODs were virtually invincible in the right hands. 

[Potdindy 866]

One thing I think that is encouraging...have you noticed how overdrives are basically ONLY getting nerfed...we mostly all want OD's to go away or be crippled, so its good to see that they are consistently being weakened.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

12 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Why can't you kill that fire-hunter before it gets in range of either the turret or the OD?

You can't function without supplies?  At all?  Maybe you need more practice in no-supply battles.

 

What exactly would you leave it with after you nerf it again?

You realize hornet and viking can kill you from much farther away than Hunter can right?  Why is having supplies on cool-down much worse than guaranteed death?  It makes no sense.

Well the response I thought about was given by Vulcanrage and I totally agree with him.

And I can function without supplies ,but I can’t fight against a guy with full supplies and with half my health already gone. Can you?

Thats why I gave a small example as well.

And it wouldn’t be a guaranteed death if there were no supply cool downs.

Edited December 28, 2019 by E_polypterus
Type

[vulcanrage 22]

8 hours ago, sensei_tanker said:

Titan's nerf was much needed. It's still strong but not stupidly overpowered. 

 

Hate to say it, if you can't play with Titan's OD, you're just bad at the game. Period. There's a time and place to activate it and it's definitely not when an OD mammoth is rushing you. You simply shouldn't have hunter as a problem because you should be aiming to kill the hunter the moment you see it within range. I have no problems with playing OD Titan. 

 

You can't complain that your OD is no longer invincible. If you haven't realized, none of the other ODs were virtually invincible in the right hands. 

yup. in future comments I dulled my original response. 

 

in my opinion the titan vs titan battles are worse. 

 

playing it bit more... was it nerfed to the ground? no. i probably over reacted. but it was nerfed.

 

and I'm confused why something like hornet and hunter are still as they are. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

16 hours ago, vulcanrage said:

Because sometimes the hunter just survives the gap distance? I don't understand your point wolverine.

 

Ok. a certain percentage of time hunter will be killed by a mid range or lange range gun before it gets close. 

 

A certain percentage of time it will have double armour equipped. Drug a repair kit. Have  a drone or something. And survive to get close to you.

 

Interesting point with functioning without supplies. I'm not sure it is going to get you anywhere in this argument. 

 

Years ago I remember it being a point of pride almost to not use drugs. Drugs had to be worked for, bought, spared. And being good without them was sign of skill.

 

Now, I entirely believe drugs and supplies are in this game and all players need to be using them (with slight nuances that could make for exceptions).

 

But drugs are highly easy to come by now. I get roughly 200 of each drug each week with minimal effort. I have stores of over 10, 000 of each drug. (all points here excluding the case of repairs). So I have it very easy in my ability to double the strength of my tank in any number of ways. 

 

If I wanted to I could not exhaust my supply of drugs. Even with an average of 4 deaths or less in a  game. And the amount of time to reenable drug activation. Not to mention the times I simply pick up the drugs... Why are we fixated anymore on not using supplies? I have thousands of them.

 

To not use them is tactical negligence. 

 

I certainly agree hunter and hornet need to be looked at. Viking and titan I feel are more of a "go somewhere else" effect in field of battle. Everything at some point will catch you off guard. Sure could reduce just the overall damage output. Even 10% less on viking, you ll still get damage and kills. Hornet completely ignoring protection and double armour ugh. Yeah that hurts. etc

 

Not entirely sure my suggestions here. I could see any number of things working. Deactivate the drugs, but let them drug again. Its not like the game allows you to use all drugs at once anyways. They can't reactivate all drugs they had. They could just say activate double armour every time they got zap. 

 

Or just get rid of the freeze effect entirely. They get zapped lose drugs can't drug again. But they can move.

 

Not sure the right amount to remove from hunter. 

 

The whole deal of dropping flags and rugby is a deal breaker too for me. If that is the case. Then give dropping flags and rugby ability to other tanks. A hunter and titan in effect can cancel a titan dome. So how bout dictators also drop flags now. And you can't drive with a flag or rugby through a dome. You ll just drop it. So for 20 seconds, a dome would protect a team from being scored on. ...

 

... does this sound overpowered wolverine? To let dictator and titan dome to drop the flag and rugby from holders. If so. Then same opinion should be held that hunter can do it. So share the love of rugby and flag dropping. 

 

E_polyp I relate to what you are saying. Not sure exactly what needs to be done. But we can't have hulls in game that have 10 good abilities. And others that have 2 good abilities that are easily countered. Devs will do what they will. But player base should certainly make it known what the issues are. 

I wasn't suggesting you stop using supplies.  I was suggesting you should be able to function periodically without them.  If you can't - practice in no-supply battles so you become more proficient for the times you can't use supplies.

 

EVERY turret can make you drop a ball/flag in rugby and assault.  Viking and Hornet are actually better at returning the flag because they can do it from a much greater distance than Hunter can. Not sure how rugby is such a big deal though - ball sits there.

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

On 12/28/2019 at 3:48 AM, vulcanrage said:

and I'm confused why something like hornet and hunter are still as they are. 

I actually don't see why a lot of players dislike hornet's OD. Hornet itself is an extremely weak hull considering it's the slower light hull and can get one shot by almost anything. Half of the times I see a Hornet OD, people just wreck it instantly. But when it goes uncountered, it becomes a problem... just like any other OD.

 

Hunter is different story. The only weak spot is the delay. But otherwise, it nullifies everyone else's overdrives and supplies.

[vulcanrage 22]

Not sure why my point escaped you wolverine. 

 

Let me try to be clearer.

 

You are right that every tank can make you drop  a ball and flag,, if you kill them. But no turret can go up to a tank anywhere, and press a button without firing a shot and make you drop the ball. Only hunter can do that. 

 

Not sure how the ability to instantly press a button and even cause full health tanks to drop rugby and flags is not being discussed by the community. As if that doesn't give severe advantages to hunter teams. If you get the ball very close to the enemy base, it's almost a guarantee that hunter can move in, zap freeze everyone, make the person near their base drop the ball. You just scoot by all frozen tanks pick up ball and score. In a game to 5 points, this ability is not an insignificant one. I'm sorry. This is clear as day.

 

in fact, as a smart player. I'd like you to share with all of us how you think the hunter advantage can be used defensively and offensively to maximize a teams odds of winning in assault and rugby. While I have certainly seen many hunters do things that grinds my gears (simpson shout out), I mean now that I have the hunter tank, I'm open to hearing every single way I can get the most out of this tank and all the tricks. Some stuff I'm sure I don't know yet or haven't seen. I mean, this isn't a genius level question. So to ignore the facts of whats in the game baffles me. Why are we all not giving hunters strengths credit for what it can do better than all other hulls, and turrets for that matter. 

 

I don't mean to accuse you of it, but you seem like you are playing dumb over the strengths of hunter. I think it is ok to talk fully about how good every ability is. Then we evaluate. 

 

As for supplies... sigh. I just don't know. I'm lucky to use vulcan in a way. It's decent and there isn't usually much protection with it. But if you are any turret facing opponents with protections. This instantly makes double damage pretty vital. Otherwise you are just flat doing 35-50% less damage. I would fully admit that this is problematic to non supply users. With some turrets, maybe they don't see lots of protections, and I agree. A no supply fight vs no supply opponents in MM is fine. I can handle that no problem. No supplies vs supplies in MM will always be challenging. Especially when drones and protections etc are brought into the frame. 

 

I'm regularly in games with legends now... not one myself. I usually do well, but challenges are clear. Sometimes I'm in a game, and I just can't make a dent into a team of 8 legends who know what they are doing.

[vulcanrage 22]

Edit: ok wasp bomb... by killing you can do it. By pressing one button. And mammoth can do it by pressing one button and killing you.

 

You are free to enlighten me about non killing ways of making someone drop rugby and flags. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 minutes ago, vulcanrage said:

Edit: ok wasp bomb... by killing you can do it. By pressing one button. And mammoth can do it by pressing one button and killing you.

 

You are free to enlighten me about non killing ways of making someone drop rugby and flags. 

Non-killing way?  What?

My point was Viking and Hornet can make you drop the flag - from a long distance away - by pressing spacebar.

And you know full well some OD enhance killing to the point of it being all but guaranteed = dropped flag.

 

You are using ridiculous semantics by having the argument revolve around "1 button".  But if it helps your narrative... 

 

[SporkZilla 1,775]

I wouldn't oppose no kill = no drop / return for rugby balls / flags for Hunter

[Legacy 7]

I can understand why you want Hunter and Hornet's OD to be nerfed but why Viking? It already takes ages to fully charge, normally you can use it only once each MM battle and it is useless with Firebird I think that viking's OD is nerfed enough 

[wolverine848 13,097]

41 minutes ago, SporkZilla said:

I wouldn't oppose no kill = no drop / return for rugby balls / flags for Hunter

I don't get why you are ok with hornet-OD one shotting a flag carrier and that flag is dropped but not Hunter's ability.  At least Hunter has to be close to the carrier.

38 minutes ago, Legacy said:

I can understand why you want Hunter and Hornet's OD to be nerfed but why Viking? It already takes ages to fully charge, normally you can use it only once each MM battle and it is useless with Firebird I think that viking's OD is nerfed enough 

Between Dictators and the OD-supply drops, viking gets OD much, much more often than 1x battle.  Why do you think there are still so many Vikings.

[vulcanrage 22]

Wolverine I understood your point.

 

Hunter doesn't need to press space bar to make someone drop the flag.

 

That was mine. They can simply do it by pressing shift. 

 

And that is of the highest importance. I get what you are saying about with some circumstances its all but guaranteed. But if you are dictator in a game. You can not make some drop a ball while they are at full health without some work. Even wasp bomb as few second delay and can be dodged.

 

Wolverine in your posts I've seen your narrative too. You really enjoy underplaying scenarios by saying: if this ever happens just do this. Not addressing the points I make wherein certain scenarios there is nothing you can do. And those scenarios happen.

 

From what I see we are at an empass in our discussion will just slow this thread down. Devs will do what they do. Talking about it seems to do little we just rant. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by vulcanrage
adding

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, sensei_tanker said:

2) I actually don't see why a lot of players dislike hornet's OD. Hornet itself is an extremely weak hull considering it's the slower light hull and can get one shot by almost anything. Half of the times I see a Hornet OD, people just wreck it instantly. But when it goes uncountered, it becomes a problem... just like any other OD.

 

1) Hunter is different story. The only weak spot is the delay. But otherwise, it nullifies everyone else's overdrives and supplies.

1) Hunter has another weakness. It has to get in close.

 

2) hornet also two weaknesses: low health and lack of stability. Also I see about 4-6 hornets per battle, most of them are long ranged turrets, two of which can bypass it's weaknesses. But the point is that these four turrets with Double damage and hornets OD activated can one shot anything from afar.

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

30 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Hunter has another weakness. It has to get in close.

But I mean... that is traded off for its dominating crowd-control effect.

Edited December 29, 2019 by sensei_tanker

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, sensei_tanker said:

But I mean... that is traded off for its dominating crowd-control effect.

If you have problems dealing with hunters OD, it's either 1) the player is really skilled and knows how and when to use it or 2) you lack in awareness. But this is an easy fix, all you need to do is start using your camera angle controls.

[vulcanrage 22]

4 hours ago, Legacy said:

I can understand why you want Hunter and Hornet's OD to be nerfed but why Viking? It already takes ages to fully charge, normally you can use it only once each MM battle and it is useless with Firebird I think that viking's OD is nerfed enough 

I agree. hornet and hunter need it more. 

 

Viking is probably fine. But it is in my mind like the reverse of titan. Titan helps to reduce huge damage. Viking dishes out huge damage. Anyways. 

[vulcanrage 22]

1 hour ago, DieselPlatinum said:

If you have problems dealing with hunters OD, it's either 1) the player is really skilled and knows how and when to use it or 2) you lack in awareness. But this is an easy fix, all you need to do is start using your camera angle controls.

Confused. Ok So a hornet is playing defines in assault or CTF. It is just sitting there. 

 

You have flag and go up try and score. Hunter activates and disables you. 

 

Did this take skill by hunter? OK... I could try and destroy it. What if hunter is hiding behind the building? I don't have a splash damage turret. I can't kill it without getting close.

 

.... 

 

Now. hunter is attacking. He just needs to get semi close. Drug up, close the gap activate his ability and a large number of defenders become frozen. We drives around them and score them. This takes no skill that I'ma ware of. In this case, yes we have chance to defend by killing him. So lets say its isida hunter. And he's trailing to titans. Titans take all the damage then he drives passed.

 

I don't feel i'd have to write very much to show how much hunter can do with all its abilities. 

 

Sigh

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

2 hours ago, vulcanrage said:

Confused. Ok So a hornet is playing defines in assault or CTF. It is just sitting there. 

 

You have flag and go up try and score. Hunter activates and disables you. 

 

Did this take skill by hunter? OK... I could try and destroy it. What if hunter is hiding behind the building? I don't have a splash damage turret. I can't kill it without getting close.

 

.... 

 

Now. hunter is attacking. He just needs to get semi close. Drug up, close the gap activate his ability and a large number of defenders become frozen. We drives around them and score them. This takes no skill that I'ma ware of. In this case, yes we have chance to defend by killing him. So lets say its isida hunter. And he's trailing to titans. Titans take all the damage then he drives passed.

 

I don't feel i'd have to write very much to show how much hunter can do with all its abilities. 

 

Sigh

camera angle controls exists for a reason. 

also it dominates in defending team in ASL because the game mode is extremely broken.

 

There are two types of hunter users: noob and pro. Noob hunters will typically rush at you which is a dead giveaway that they're about to use their OD. Pro hunters will use tactics such as ambushes and lures, so they're a lot less obvious.

 

If you're still having trouble dealing with hunter, then maybe you need to work on your awareness.

[vulcanrage 22]

46 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

camera angle controls exists for a reason. 

also it dominates in defending team in ASL because the game mode is extremely broken.

 

There are two types of hunter users: noob and pro. Noob hunters will typically rush at you which is a dead giveaway that they're about to use their OD. Pro hunters will use tactics such as ambushes and lures, so they're a lot less obvious.

 

If you're still having trouble dealing with hunter, then maybe you need to work on your awareness.

Thanks for your continued presence in this topic. I'll try write more in my comments. Apparently my point is still not coming across.

 

I am perfectly capable of using my camera angles Q and E. 

 

I know the hunter is there. 

 

I have vulcan. Let's say with flag trying to score with dictator. (yes I could use titan, but to score flag, I tend to score well enough with dictator). Now I guess you could just say... don't try to score in AS L or CTF with vulcan. Fine. I like to sit back to and just layer the blue point full of bullets. But let's say I'm pretty good at scoring and want to help my team directly win. 

 

So, I know where the hunter is. And I know where the out in the open defenders are. There is a hidden isida. And a hidden hunter. And 2 other defenders. 

 

Your comment if you were unaware diesel was not well written. If this was a school assignment you'd get a D. Maybe F? 

 

Not only was it perhaps well written I don;t think you actually realize the points were wrong.

 

You just stated that a NOOB hunter, a terrible word... noob. Usually only written by people who are noob themselves and just want to transpose that onto others instead of gaining the self realization they require... a noob hunter charges with OD which makes it obvious. 

 

Well... to counter. Pro hunters also charge. See, they have this insane unique ability that when they get close they entirely disable a group of tanks. So let's say you have 3 tanks defending point in assault. On some random map with enough cover that the hunter can get within a building or two of the point fairly safely. Also, he has 7 teammates so he brings 1 or 2 along. Please do not patronize me with the response ... so kill him. He's drugged. Armed with drone. Willing to self repair. and ready to use OD. So he himself decides aha! I'm gonna attack those three defenders and disable them all. That isn't noob. Especially if he or someone else behind him is gonna use it to score. Charging might make it obvious. Just like a mammoth charging you is obvious. But if they have the health and range to do it... do it. In highways if you make it up a the first couple of ramps of an enemy base where there is only one more ramp. As hunter or mammoth, you have the ability to get the rest of the way and not much will stop you. Sure if you are freeze you might stop them. 

 

That's the first point i'll make. I agree with you... that hunters will use tactics and lure and ambushed. But a charging hunter who knows when to charge. Yeah thats good. I'd do that. The smart defenders should be separating themselves so they can't all be zapped. But if you have an isida... he needs to be close to do is job. So a charging hunter with objective of neutralizing an isida paired with another tank. Come on. 

 

Ok, I think you wrote camera angle... as the actual point of how to stop hunter. As if, no one knows how to stop a hunter? Well you just use your camera angle DUH! Um, camera angles don't deal damage. They don't heal you. They don't unzap you. Or give you drugs. But yes thanks. I am fully aware of the hunter. But not always. Sometimes! I'm attack by multiple tanks. From multiple directions. God forbid that that happens. I would love if all my opponents only attacked from one direction. Or that my team was never overwhelmed by opponents for any number of reasons that sometime happen in game. Outnumbered. Etc. So I'm aware of hunters. But sometimes, you are stuck fighting two long range titan shafts. And in shooting at them using  particular camera angle YOU HAVE TO USE TO TARGET THEM, a hunter comes from behind. 

 

Ok. so I will work on that awareness of shooting at an opponent who is killing all my teammates from the other side of map... and also simultaneously check every corner of my base cause thats possible...

 

I like how you wrote "if you are still having troubles". As if the minimal useless amount you wrote actually provided a solution to hunter. I'll use that quote as reference for anyone else needing help against hunter. 

 

Come on. Actually write something when you post. 

 

The camera angle... for those who don't use them? Maybe you thought I was one... Is a tip for sure. But it does not solve hunter. 

[Potdindy 866]

Id say the hull overdrives are very well balanced right now. Hunter was a problem a while ago, but since the nerf it feels very reasonable. Strong but not overbearing. I dont think titans dome was but I also dont hate the nerf. Glad the devs are only neefing these...make them have less of an impact on the game

[E_polypterus 2,374]

8 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

I don't get why you are ok with hornet-OD one shotting a flag carrier and that flag is dropped but not Hunter's ability.  At least Hunter has to be close to the carrier.

You need to kill the flag carrier to make him drop the flag like any other turret but hunter needs to just press shift and engine else carrying the flag(in asl) too drips the flag. Even though the hunter needs to be close it’s still annoyingly op. Why do you think there are so many hunters in every battle? I don’t see as much of them in PRO battles than in MM battles anyway.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

2 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

camera angle controls exists for a reason. 

How can the camera help? Even if you see them sneaking behind you you’re dead anyway.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, vulcanrage said:

 

1) Not only was it perhaps well written I don;t think you actually realize the points were wrong.

 

2) You just stated that a NOOB hunter, a terrible word... noob. Usually only written by people who are noob themselves and just want to transpose that onto others instead of gaining the self realization they require... a noob hunter charges with OD which makes it obvious. 

 

3) Well... to counter. Pro hunters also charge. See, they have this insane unique ability that when they get close they entirely disable a group of tanks.

 

4) So let's say you have 3 tanks defending point in assault. On some random map with enough cover that the hunter can get within a building or two of the point fairly safely. Also, he has 7 teammates so he brings 1 or 2 along. Please do not patronize me with the response ... so kill him. He's drugged. Armed with drone. Willing to self repair. and ready to use OD. So he himself decides aha! I'm gonna attack those three defenders and disable them all. That isn't noob. Especially if he or someone else behind him is gonna use it to score. Charging might make it obvious. Just like a mammoth charging you is obvious. But if they have the health and range to do it... do it. In highways if you make it up a the first couple of ramps of an enemy base where there is only one more ramp. As hunter or mammoth, you have the ability to get the rest of the way and not much will stop you. Sure if you are freeze you might stop them. 

 

5) That's the first point i'll make. I agree with you... that hunters will use tactics and lure and ambushed. But a charging hunter who knows when to charge. Yeah thats good. I'd do that. The smart defenders should be separating themselves so they can't all be zapped. But if you have an isida... he needs to be close to do is job. So a charging hunter with objective of neutralizing an isida paired with another tank. Come on. Ok, I think you wrote camera angle... as the actual point of how to stop hunter. As if, no one knows how to stop a hunter? Well you just use your camera angle DUH! Um, camera angles don't deal damage. They don't heal you. They don't unzap you. Or give you drugs. But yes thanks. I am fully aware of the hunter. But not always. Sometimes! I'm attack by multiple tanks. From multiple directions. God forbid that that happens. I would love if all my opponents only attacked from one direction. Or that my team was never overwhelmed by opponents for any number of reasons that sometime happen in game. Outnumbered. Etc. So I'm aware of hunters. But sometimes, you are stuck fighting two long range titan shafts. And in shooting at them using  particular camera angle YOU HAVE TO USE TO TARGET THEM, a hunter comes from behind. 

 

 

1) oh I know what you wrote and took it into consideration. But I don't think it's as bad as you're make it sound.

 

2) well what did you want me to call them? The pretty pink pony hunters?

 

3) pro hunters charge when they need to.

 

4) again that is a problem with the crap fest that's known as ASL. Hunter and mammoth (defending), wasp, Gauss, Viking, and hornet just makes it more obvious.

 

5) sometimes you just can't win every encounter. Hunter is supposed to win here.

22 minutes ago, E_polypterus said:

You get to kill the flag carrier to make him drop the flag like any other turret but hunter needs to press shift and engine else carrying the flag(in asl) too drips the flag. Even though the hunter needs to be close it’s still annoyingly op. 

fixed.  this is a problem with ASL, not hunter.

17 minutes ago, E_polypterus said:

How can the camera help? Even if you see them sneaking behind you you’re dead anyway.

Just keep your distance if you can go faster than it.