This is the reason why online tanki became a P2W game and the community is getting smaller and smaller.

[flaw03 25]

I think that many will have realized that online tanki has fewer and fewer players. The veterans (like me, who play from 2009-2010) will know of all the changes that tanki has gone online and that most have made it fall.

 

  Clearly the online tanki community has decreased for many reasons (which I will detail in this post) either by the poor optimization of arrival of information packets in a network, by the new weapons that have gotten, but there is one of which I will speak more than the others and it's about why Tanki Online became a P2W game (Pay To Win)

 

 The truth that saddens me enough to know that every time the game becomes smaller (in community) and the as the P2W is remarkable.

 

Let's take an example: 2 players, who are Warrant Officer 1. The player "Y" will be an ordinary player, without paying. The "Z" Player will have the benefits of being premium. We will see how many crystals each earns and how much XP each one obtains in 1 month / 30 days, playing ONLY DM MATCHES, playing 9 games a day. Let's suppose that in all they win 600 crystals. Remember that the premium gives 100% more profits and 50% more XP. We will discard missions and rewards of mission chains.

 

 Player Y obtains on the day 5 400 crystals, in the total month 162 000 crystals and of experience on the day he obtains 9 000, on the month 270 000. If we add 270 000 plus the 57 000 of xp of warrant officer 1 "initial "gives us the result of 327,000, that is, the user would already be in First Lieutenant. 162,000 crystals plus 40 600 of the crystal bonuses when going up in rank gives us a total of 202 600 crystals in a month. Enough to buy a m2 kit. Assuming that the player in all these games has won 600 crystals.

 

 Player Z obtains 10 800 crystals in the day, in the month 324 000 (already exceeded the total of the player "Y" in a full month plus his range bonuses) and experience in the day gets 13 500, in the month 405 000, that is, the user would already be in Lieutenant Colonel. If we add 405 000 plus the 57 000 XP of warrant officer 1 "initial" gives us the result of 462 000. 324 000 crystals plus 76 600 of the range bonus gives us a total of 400 600 crystals. 400 600 crystals ... Sounds funny, does not it? plus the daily bonus given to the premiums (2 500 crystals) which would therefore be 400 600 plus 75 000 gives us the total of 475 600 crystals ... enough to buy 2 kits of m2 ... 2 kits. .. okay. And I'm still left over ... (assuming the kits cost under 210 000).  Wow...

 

• Conclusions:
• a.- Paying to be premium for 1 month gives you a lot of benefits
• b.-being premium for 1 month gives you the benefit of buying not only 1 but 2 kits m2

So? Pay to win

 

And now we go with the KITS.

 

Pay for a kit (rather, for a few) gives you many benefits, such as excessive increase your K / D or your Winrate. It also gives you the possibility to continue "micro-updating" your turret / helmet / module. To the point of being a "Pseudo-m2 turret".

 

  In fact, I still remember that I saw a player of rank Warrant Officer 2 with titan m1 10/10 MU and Thunder M1 9/10 MU. That is ... let's see. In that range you can not even buy Thunder M1 sticks for your rank ... but for buying a kit and crystals and reached a Thunder M2? IS THIS SERIOUS ?!

 

 

  And I'll give you another example. Mine. I was Sergeant Major when I bought the Corsair kit. Believe me that before with my titan m1 2/10 MU and my Smoky 4/10 MU I was doing well. But when I bought this kit, it was much better for me. So now I have Twins m1 10/10 MU ... Buying glasses unfortunately I reached that.

 

 And we go with the last thing because . The crystals.

 

Short answer: Buying crystals really gives you access to everything. Before, this was not the case ... in 2009 it was never like that ... and I never thought that all this would end like this.

 

  Anyway, I know that maybe they will fill me with dislikes, but having so many people playing before, now they have a maximum of 45,000 online at 13 UTC ... the time where there are more players ... I believe.

 

  Never, they never had to put the kits.

 

  Greetings,

Flaw

Edited February 23, 2020 by Flaw

[Maf 32,300]

On 2/23/2020 at 2:54 PM, Flaw said:

Clearly the online tanki community has decreased for many reasons (which I will detail in this post)

You mentioned poor optimisation and P2W. Any more?

I can tell you for a fact that the absolute main reason for player counts dropping is the fact that the game's USP and the Flash game engine have become outdated years ago, and therefore very few new players are staying in. No amount of perfect balancing or removal of P2W will fix that.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 2:54 PM, Flaw said:

202 600 crystals in a month

You completely ignored:

• Daily missions
• Containers (normal and weekly)
• Gold boxes
• Double fund weekends (every weekend, plus sometimes lasting the whole week too)
• Challenges
• Special events (wars, increased gold drops, contests, etc.)

These items seriously boost free players' ability to purchase items and bring down the gap between free and P2W. The days when battle rewards were the only source of crystals are long gone. So please recalculate taking the things above into account.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 2:54 PM, Flaw said:

Pay for a kit (rather, for a few) gives you many benefits, such as excessive increase your K / D or your Winrate.

A kit on its own doesn't do that. But even if it did, it doesn't matter because kits can be purchased for both crystals and TKs, therefore being available to free players. In fact, with the modifications update even the 4-rank advantage was removed, and now both crystal and TK kits can be bought just 1 rank before the actual equipment in them becomes available separately.

On 2/23/2020 at 2:54 PM, Flaw said:

Buying crystals really gives you access to everything

With careful planning and smart spending, a free player is able to earn enough crystals to purchase almost the same items someone who buys crystals with money. This is especially true for high ranks, where rewards are greater and the pressure from earning enough before the next equipment Mk unlocks is no longer present.

Yes, a free player will never have the same variety of equipment as a buyer, but that's the nature of a F2P game, and it cannot be changed without creating a whole new separate game with a different economic model.

 

Since you're bringing up the same points that we covered in many other discussion topics, I invite you to read the Livestream summary, where things like P2W and decreasing player counts are explained in great detail.

[799169 48]

21 minutes ago, Maf said:

 

A kit on its own doesn't do that. But even if it did, it doesn't matter because kits can be purchased for both crystals and TKs, therefore being available to free players. In fact, with the modifications update even the 4-rank advantage was removed, and now both crystal and TK kits can be bought just 1 rank before the actual equipment in them becomes available separately.

 

only 1 kit available for crystals every 12 hours.

98 mk5 kits

98mk4 kits

both types can be offered  to a player in appropriate rank

 

so to buy a kit that i need, i need to check every 12 hours, and it could take 98 days for my kit of choice to occur.

free players are practically deprived of kits now, even though kit prices are very affordable now.

 

[Maf 32,300]

3 minutes ago, 799169 said:

so to buy a kit that i need, i need to check every 12 hours, and it could take 98 days for my kit of choice to occur.

Yes, but it's possible. Which is why I always say - by spending money you're paying for convenience, rather than raw power.

[flaw03 25]

 

2 hours ago, Maf said:

You mentioned poor optimisation and P2W. Any more?

I can tell you for a fact that the absolute main reason for player counts dropping is the fact that the game's USP and the Flash game engine have become outdated years ago, and therefore very few new players are staying in. No amount of perfect balancing or removal of P2W will fix that.

 

You completely ignored:

• Daily missions
• Containers (normal and weekly)
• Gold boxes
• Double fund weekends (which happen once every 2-3 weeks)
• Challenges
• Special events (wars, increased gold drops, contests, etc.)

These items seriously boost free players' ability to purchase items and bring down the gap between free and P2W. The days when battle rewards were the only source of crystals are long gone. So please recalculate taking the things above into account.

 

A kit on its own doesn't do that. But even if it did, it doesn't matter because kits can be purchased for both crystals and TKs, therefore being available to free players. In fact, with the modifications update even the 4-rank advantage was removed, and now both crystal and TK kits can be bought just 1 rank before the actual equipment in them becomes available separately.

With careful planning and smart spending, a free player is able to earn enough crystals to purchase almost the same items someone who buys crystals with money. This is especially true for high ranks, where rewards are greater and the pressure from earning enough before the next equipment Mk unlocks is no longer present.

Yes, a free player will never have the same variety of equipment as a buyer, but that's the nature of a F2P game, and it cannot be changed without creating a whole new separate game with a different economic model.

 

Since you're bringing up the same points that we covered in many other discussion topics, I invite you to read the Livestream summary, where things like P2W and decreasing player counts are explained in great detail.

 Tanki  stated  they will take  "  players feedback", not to me they are taking of our feedback, they are making it worst and soon no one will give feedback.

Look at the recent contest "Crystallizer contest", you have to buy  Premium  to get top prize beacause it gives you 2x the crystals

How is that fair on other players?

Plus, if u have the pass, u will have 3x crystals.

More like a contest for buyers.

 

Another example:  A  tanki player stated that  "

PAY2WIN

plus whats the point in even having fractions if you get rewarded for your efforts

you need to buy a battle pass

plus i see you have increased the war paint price  from 10 to 15 tankcoins

why does it even have to costs tankcoins, i mean if a player from 2014 would want to participate why would they, they would have to grind 3 weekly missions just to buy the pant, and then grind a few hours everyday and use up all their suppies and buy a battle pass, uggh

tanki is becoming more and more disgusting every time.

they say they want to listen to the players advice

soon they will have no players to take advice from if this continues"

 

I agree with this point, why would you put tankcoins to   participate, it's so dumb, i dont get it , why do players have to waste their time, when buyers can just buy it  in  a minute. it seems like a p2w

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Flaw

[Dopey 0]

m

2 hours ago, Maf said:

Yes, but it's possible. Which is why I always say - by spending money you're paying for convenience, rather than raw power.

  You are just  arguing just because u buy , i saw your ratings , you had a paint called "Galaxy", which is $55.99. Just to show, he's mad

All these people who are arguing are just mad, beacuse they bought in the past

[Maf 32,300]

10 minutes ago, Dopey said:

You are just  arguing just because u buy

The only things I bought in the past 5 years were battle passes, back when I played a lot in the first half of 2019. But that's not important since my whole situation is different when it comes to competing against "buyers".

35 minutes ago, Flaw said:

Look at the recent contest "Crystallizer contest", you have to buy  Premium  to get top prize beacause it gives you 2x the crystals

How is that fair on other players?

Yes, it's a contest for Premium players, but the rewards are no different than buying a bunch of stuff from the Shop directly. There's nothing special about a few thousand crystals, some containers and TK. As a non-premium player you are not expected to participate without buying Premium, so just ignore the contest and keep playing the game normally.

How it's fair to other players? The rewards are unlimited. You can submit any screenshot and get 2000 bonus crystals with minimal effort. Not to mention that any valid entry is entered into the giveaway with massive prizes.

41 minutes ago, Flaw said:

why does it even have to costs tankcoins

Because 10-15 tankoins is an affordable price for a bonus feature like a "war" event, and because it was deemed economically viable for the game.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that Tanki Online is a free to play game, which needs to somehow raise funds for its development and maintenance. The "friendly" way of doing this by selling only fancy cosmetic items is not effective enough, which is why we have things like supplies, drones, and micro-upgrades, which give buyers an advantage by making it easier to obtain them earlier in the game if you pay real money.

Notice how I say "easier", because a free player is also able to obtain every gameplay-affecting item in the game*, albeit with much greater difficulty and through restrictive gameplay. Things like paints and skins do not affect gameplay, therefore it's fair to lock them behind a paywall as they are not necessary for enjoyment of the game. But everything else (turrets, hulls, supplies, drones, modules, alterations, MUs) can be bought by a free player, given enough time.

Real "Pay-to-win" would be if Tanki had an extremely powerful turret/hull/module that could only be bought for real money, which free players would not be able to compete against without spending money. Tanki does not have this.

*I realise the new Vulcan special offer kit has a gameplay-affecting alteration, but it does not give a significant advantage with the exception of some very specific situations. Not to mention that the same effect can be achieved using Ricochet.

[flaw03 25]

21 minutes ago, Maf said:

 

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that Tanki Online is a free to play game, which needs to somehow raise funds for its development and maintenance. The "friendly" way of doing this by selling only fancy cosmetic items is not effective enough, which is why we have things like supplies, drones, and micro-upgrades, which give buyers an advantage by making it easier to obtain them earlier in the game if you pay real money.

 

You do realise the new Vulcan gives a significant advantage which is only available for buyers. Let's say tanki introduce a new kit, and  you can buy it  advance with money. This gives them an advantage and abuse, whereas other tanki players do not have access to buy the kit with crystals, it just  not fair, and just makes the game unfair.

1 hour ago, Flaw said:

 

 Tanki  stated  they will take  "  players feedback", not to me they are taking of our feedback, they are making it worst and soon no one will give feedback.

Look at the recent contest "Crystallizer contest", you have to buy  Premium  to get top prize beacause it gives you 2x the crystals

How is that fair on other players?

Plus, if u have the pass, u will have 3x crystals.

More like a contest for buyers.

 

Another example:  A  tanki player stated that  "

PAY2WIN

plus whats the point in even having fractions if you get rewarded for your efforts

you need to buy a battle pass

plus i see you have increased the war paint price  from 10 to 15 tankcoins

why does it even have to costs tankcoins, i mean if a player from 2014 would want to participate why would they, they would have to grind 3 weekly missions just to buy the pant, and then grind a few hours everyday and use up all their suppies and buy a battle pass, uggh

tanki is becoming more and more disgusting every time.

they say they want to listen to the players advice

soon they will have no players to take advice from if this continues"

 

I agree with this point, why would you put tankcoins to   participate, it's so dumb, i dont get it , why do players have to waste their time, when buyers can just buy it  in  a minute. it seems like a p2w

 

 

Are u not going to  talk about this? You need to buy the battle pass  and tankions which you can buy in 1 minute or grind it out. How is this fair?

Yeah don't talk about the prizes, because you  have to buy the battle pass too for non-buyers that is  hard and have to grind it out again, wheras the buyers just buy the battle pass in a minute.

 

 

[Maf 32,300]

1 minute ago, Flaw said:

You do realise the new Vulcan gives a significant advantage which is only available for buyers.

New Vulcan mechanics have been applied to all Vulcans of all players. The Ultra skin changes nothing but looks.

2 minutes ago, Flaw said:

Are u not going to  talk about this?

I didn't talk about it because most of it is incoherent and makes little sense. Are you saying that it's unfair that buyers can complete challenges quickly and get all rewards?

[flaw03 25]

9 minutes ago, Maf said:

New Vulcan mechanics have been applied to all Vulcans of all players. The Ultra skin changes nothing but looks.

I didn't talk about it because most of it is incoherent and makes little sense. Are you saying that it's unfair that buyers can complete challenges quickly and get all rewards?

It made all sense but i repeat again.

 

I stated my reassons:

plus whats the point in even having fractions if you get rewarded for your efforts

 

you need to buy a battle pass

 

plus i see you have increased the war paint price  from 10 to 15 tankcoins

 

why does it even have to costs tankcoins, i mean if a player from 2014 would want to participate why would they, they would have to grind 3 weekly missions just to buy the pant, and then grind a few hours everyday and use up all their suppies and buy a battle pass, uggh

 

tanki is becoming more and more disgusting every time.

 

they say they want to listen to the players advice

 

soon they will have no players to take advice from if this continues

 

I put in bulletpoints because it seems like a mod doesn't understand

Edited February 23, 2020 by Flaw

[Maf 32,300]

4 minutes ago, Flaw said:

 

I already explained all this above. Tanki Online needs to maintain its economy and this is the only way. Please read the article I linked if you want to learn more details.

[CabbageRoll 3,018]

I havent read anything yet but i will be clear. Now the p2w is not problem at all since modification update destroyed economy. New buyers cannot beat old ones, and people who collected crystals for free like me.

[Potdindy 866]

Id say its not p2w that is a problem...tanki is super generous. What Ive seen that is the problem is high level players creating alts and ruining the game for new players. When I see a lower level player with a kd of 3...that person is absolutely ruining a new person starting tanki

[Maf 32,300]

43 minutes ago, Potdindy said:

Id say its not p2w that is a problem...tanki is super generous. What Ive seen that is the problem is high level players creating alts and ruining the game for new players. When I see a lower level player with a kd of 3...that person is absolutely ruining a new person starting tanki

This is exactly right.

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

The game is more generous than ever... it's legit handing out free crystals for all players because of such a high crystal-earning rate for all players. If you can't manage your crystals today, you wouldn't have made it back 5 years ago.

[Potdindy 866]

1 hour ago, sensei_tanker said:

The game is more generous than ever... it's legit handing out free crystals for all players because of such a high crystal-earning rate for all players. If you can't manage your crystals today, you wouldn't have made it back 5 years ago.

Yes well said, and actually the new mk system makes it so that at high levels you will automatically have 6-7 different protections. An mk1, mk2 etc. i didnt realize how kits let you skip all those levels and get stuff for cheaper

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Why is it a problem for a game to have some P2W features especially considering the company is dinky compared to a larger one like oh I don't know, roblox?

 

Here's what would happen if P2W was removed from tanki:

1. People stop buying things.

2. Devs don't get money.

3. Devs use up the money they do have.

4. Servers don't get maintained.

5. Game becomes riddled with bugs and glitches.

6. Game shuts down.

7. Players asking why game shut down, and devs say because they couldn't afford to keep it up.

[r_Given6 859]

I don't find most things in Tanki to be P2W. Except fully MUed drones, everything can be obtained for free with skill. Hopefully, with time, even drones would become more accessible for us F2Ps so we have an even better chance at competing against buyers. That, and a more convenient rotation for kits purchasable with crystals would be absolutely great.

[Ethiaa 135]

I think the continual barrage of forum topics like this don't do anything to help grow a community. If you are just starting out in TO then seeing this kind of stuff all the time isn't going to be a big draw. Sad times.

[Maf 32,300]

20 minutes ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

Literally no one is asking for new skins

At least one person is 

 

[Benefactor 6,888]

I thought the main reason people quit is because they've gone off to study, or started a family, or got a job/received a promotion - all  and things that require undivided attention and financial resources. Through the years I've seen complaints about the changes and yet they still remained in the game. The game has to evolve, and each time it probably happened sooner than we wanted it to but it was bound to happen eventually. However, combine this with the fact that they do not do ads (either outgoing or incoming) makes the game dependent on its userbase for income. 

The game is not P2W. Skill is still involved. One could have an entire M4 garage and still not crack the top half of the scoreboard in an all-Legends battle. *cough cough* 

[flaw03 25]

On 2/23/2020 at 3:19 PM, Maf said:

I already explained all this above. Tanki Online needs to maintain its economy and this is the only way. Please read the article I linked if you want to learn more details.

Alright, tell me why you have increased the price to 10 tankions to 15. Couldn't you keep it the same price, or  is the game just p2w.

2. You need to buy the battle pass to receive rewards. Makes sense  because you have to buy it (or grind it out which no one will do) . Why do you have to  have the battle pass to receive rewards. seems like p2w game. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Flaw

[Potdindy 866]

4 minutes ago, Flaw said:

Alright, tell me why you have increased the price to 10 tankions to 15. Couldn't you keep it the same price, or  is the game just p2w.

2. You need to buy the battle pass to receive rewards. Makes sense  because you have to buy it (or grind it out which no one will do) . Why do you have to  have the battle pass to receive rewards. seems like p2w game. 

You don't need to buy the battle pass to get rewards

[flaw03 25]

On 2/23/2020 at 5:22 PM, Potdindy said:

Id say its not p2w that is a problem...tanki is super generous. What Ive seen that is the problem is high level players creating alts and ruining the game for new players. When I see a lower level player with a kd of 3...that person is absolutely ruining a new person starting tanki

You don't understand, do you?  i am talking about buyers are able  to buy high level kits and abuse it. it is not available to non-buyers  because tanki is stupid enough to let buyers buy it but non-buyers    aren't allowed it to buy  with crystals

Edited February 27, 2020 by Flaw

[flaw03 25]

16 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Why is it a problem for a game to have some P2W features especially considering the company is dinky compared to a larger one like oh I don't know, roblox?

 

Here's what would happen if P2W was removed from tanki:

1. People stop buying things.

2. Devs don't get money.

3. Devs use up the money they do have.

4. Servers don't get maintained.

5. Game becomes riddled with bugs and glitches.

6. Game shuts down.

7. Players asking why game shut down, and devs say because they couldn't afford to keep it up.

Ok then, tell me why tanki is adding powerful kits and lets buyers abuse it. Surely,they  can add kits available for non-buyers to buy with crystals.  They can make money  both ways. Ok, let me give you an example "fornite".  fornite has to pay more money  to devs, even though it doesnt give  a significant advantage; they add skins, which gives no advantage   at all to buyers and non-buyers

Edited February 24, 2020 by Flaw