Unfortunate news

[Joeguy 941]

52 minutes ago, Catbird said:

If the situation of the Flash version is so dire, then it seems clear to me that you need to prioritize making the html5 version into a complete substitute of the Flash version.

I am a newer player who discovered the game in html5, and I gotta say, I very much prefer it to the flash version. But when I see just how different the two versions are and how there's several features on Flash that are absent from the html5 version, it's no wonder people are reticent to move. Not to mention those who just cannot play on html5 because of lag. 

You NEED to make that move as easy as possible for them. Every feature should be carried over. Try to make an alternate Flash-like interface for Html5. Anything to remove the cost of leaving Flash behind. You have to make a compromise.

Well said.  Of all the posts I've read and even written myself, yours is the one post I wish the developers would read and act upon.

[razisalman 1]

if only the camera would be fixed in html

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by razisalman

[Ghost_Animators 4,802]

This is the difference in maximum Scope of Shaft in HTML5 and Flash version.

Horizontal and vertical aiming speed & acceleration is affected by this too.

I really like features of HTML5 version a lot, the home-screen looks amazing, radar is really nice, CP looks awesome and self-destruct screen is nice. Also it is really helpful that it highlights your aim when it is directly at an enemy.

But I would like to complete the "Remote" mission from Lockdown 2.0 (5000 Kills using long range Turret) and want my progress to be tracked.

And for that I need to play with Shaft and the current condition of Shaft is pretty bad in HTML5 version.

The only 2 reason why I'm still playing on Flash is because:

1) Shaft scope is not fixed and I mostly play with Shaft, few of my accounts are solely for playing with Shaft (for ex- Ghost_Animator_Shaft)

2) Flash version takes you to battle very fast (5-10 seconds average). On the other hand HTML5 takes way longer (20-40 seconds average on Chrome and 30-55 on client).

When the HTML5 client was released, for a whole month I just played on HTML5 (I only used Twins and Railgun during that period). But recently I started doing live-streams. For that it is important that I join battle fast so viewers retention doesn't decrease and I can give a better performance in battle. Also since I'm streaming I would prefer to play with Shaft because I'm more experienced with it .

Therefore I play in Flash Client even though I like HTML5 version more.

I understand that migrating game to a totally new platform can take a while.

That's why I don't have any problem with the current situation. I'm just highlighting the reasons why I'm still using Flash Version.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Ghost_Animators

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

3 minutes ago, Ghost_Animators said:

This is the difference in maximum Scope of Shaft in HTML5 and Flash version.

Horizontal and vertical aiming speed & acceleration is affected by this too.

I really like features of HTML5 version a lot, the home-screen looks amazing, radar is really nice, CP looks awesome and self-destruct screen is nice. Also it is really helpful that it highlights your aim when it is directly at an enemy.

But I would like to complete the "Remote" mission from Lockdown 2.0 (5000 Kills using long range Turret) and want my progress to be tracked.

And for that I need to play with Shaft and the current condition of Shaft is pretty bad in HTML5 version.

The only 2 reason why I'm still playing on Flash is because:

1) Shaft scope is not fixed and I mostly play with Shaft, few of my accounts are solely for playing with Shaft (for ex- Ghost_Animator_Shaft)

2) Flash version takes you to battle very fast (5-10 seconds average). On the other hand HTML5 takes way longer (20-40 seconds average on Chrome and 30-55 on client).

When the HTML5 client was released, for a whole month I just played on HTML5 (I only used Twins and Railgun during that period). But recently I started doing live-streams. For that it is important that I join battle fast so viewers retention doesn't decrease and I can give a better performance in battle. Also since I'm streaming I would prefer to play with Shaft because I'm more experienced with it .

Therefore I play in Flash Client even though I like HTML5 version more.

 

 

Is that the same distance from your tank to that blue thing?

[generlisimmo_gta_4 5]

Tanki, the best you could do is have 2 individual modes of HTML, one is the new version, many people have adapted to the newer version, the other is the old version, which several old players, like me, are more inclined towards, this is the least you can do from your part, don't be sorry, we understand that it is hard time right now since we are in quarantine, but make it work, i can wait! I'd rather play on Flash than get my progress tracked.

[generlisimmo_gta_4 5]

6 hours ago, tanksalad said:

Is there a way to turn off the music on the home screen in the HTML 5 version? Don't get me wrong, I love the Tanki theme music, but to hear it all the time like that is 1) annoying, and 2) would make me hate the music rather than love it. Please say we can turn it off. It's holding me back from switching to the HTML 5 version.

You can turn it off in the settings

[Ghost_Animators 4,802]

55 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Is that the same distance from your tank to that blue thing?

Yes exactly same

[iWillHealYou 220]

2 hours ago, Modesty said:

I am really sad flash is dying, but I don't like the new html5 version, It is just more focused for matchmaking players. It's much harder to play xp/bp on html5 version. Sometimes you can't hit double shots, and the display for the supplies is very annoying, it shows supplies even when they are turned off. It looks ugly to record html5 version. I am a YouTuber and I dont personally like editing html5 tanki clips. The graphics are bad too. I can't invite friends while I am in the battle. I liked how the camera worked, it just feels like old tanki, but it's harder to play like that. I hope tanki will fix those issues in html5 client, otherwise this 20k active players count would drop to nil. I hate new tanki updates, but at the same time, it's a pain not to play this game... Come back old tanki

True! it's not good for xp/bp at all. Btw, glad to see you back, I joined the game just after you left and watched your videos when I starting playing xp/bp, thanks for the effort.

[Joeguy 941]

OK, I played on HTML some more...HTML is still vastly inferior to Flash for a multitude of reasons that have been brought up over and over and over and over.

 

Even if HTML and Flash were similar in terms of the game-play experience (which they are not), I would still choose to play Flash if for no other reason than I can access my missions from within a battle.

 

I want to be able to see my progress on Daily Missions while in a battle.  I want to be able to remind myself of the mission itself from within a battle.  Did I need to collect DD or was it DA?  Do i need to drug like crazy to squeeze that last little bit of score?  Do i need to accuate my OD asap to complete a mission or can I hold it to use more strategically.

 

A very simple thing like not having mission access from within a battle will keep me from playing HTML.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Joeguy

[theFiringHand 21,351]

3 hours ago, Catbird said:

If the situation of the Flash version is so dire, then it seems clear to me that you need to prioritize making the html5 version into a complete substitute of the Flash version.

I am a newer player who discovered the game in html5, and I gotta say, I very much prefer it to the flash version. But when I see just how different the two versions are and how there's several features on Flash that are absent from the html5 version, it's no wonder people are reticent to move. Not to mention those who just cannot play on html5 because of lag. 

You NEED to make that move as easy as possible for them. Every feature should be carried over. Try to make an alternate Flash-like interface for Html5. Anything to remove the cost of leaving Flash behind. You have to make a compromise.

Yes, I see your point, and it's a message that came out loud and clear in our other thread where we asked players to tell us what they wanted to see improved in the HTML5 version.

We are acting on that feedback, but there are a number of reasons it's happening slowly:

1. HTML5 and Flash are two very different technologies, so you can't just copy and paste the coding like someone suggested earlier. I'm sure you already know this, but many people don't realize it.
2. Tanki Online was never intended to be a game. It was simply meant to be a showcase piece for the Alternativa Engine, which was to be a Flash 3D engine for games. That's what the company originally set out to do 11 years ago. When, Tanki blew up in popularity, they capitalized on that. However, since Tanki wasn't meant to be a proper game, no effort had been made to code it in a properly structured way.
   Over the years, our programming team had to balance between adding content to a messy piece of software, and keeping it running without anything blowing up in their faces. In turn, this accrued a lot of "technical debt" - lots of stuff needed to be fixed, but there was no time or resources to fix it. And what's worse, the older, bigger problems kept getting buried deeper and deeper, making it harder to dig them up and fix them without making the whole thing come crashing down around our ears. One such problem is what caused the Tankopocalypse a few years ago.
   So, when Adobe finally announced they would discontinue Flash, the team saw it as an opportunity to move on to a new technology - HTML5, and more importantly, the chance to rebuild Tanki PROPERLY, in a structured way, and not as a sloppy mess of hastily-put-together lines of code.
3. That brings me to my next point - we're practically rewriting the game in another language, and that takes a ton of time. Those of you here who can speak multiple languages, even fluently, can tell you how hard it is to translate something. I'll give you a stupid example:
   English: "My name is Cedric"
   Italian: "Il mio nome è Cedric" - structure very close to English
   Maltese: "Jien jisimni Cedric" - structure changes - "I am named Cedric"
   Russian: "Меня зовут Седрик" - structure changes - "At me call Cedric"
   Now when it comes to human languages, you have some degree of artistic liberty. And unless you're translating a legal text (done that many times and I wanted to tear my eyes out), you can play around with sentence structure. And that is STILL a major pain, because your brain needs to keep switching from one structure to the other.
   But when you're dealing with a programming language, it becomes even harder. Precision is not an option. More importantly, you have to plan ahead when coding. Your code needs to be structured in a way that makes it scalable. And there are loads of industry best practices to follow, to make sure that someone else can work with your code if you leave.
   It's actually much more complex than that, but this post is already pretty long, so I won't press the point.
4. We're spending so much time fighting fires in the Flash version, that our development of the HTML5 version is practically moving at a crawl.
   We've said this many times before, but it bears repeating. In recent years we've practically doubled our number of programmers, and we still can't keep up with the desired speed of development, because the fires in the Flash version keep getting bigger and bigger. Every day, something new breaks or some other part dies. Seriously, if zombies and aliens started jumping out of the code at this point, I wouldn't even be surprised.
5. This damned COVID hasn't made things any easier. Everybody is constrained to working from home. This slows things down. Where before you used to get into a meeting room and discuss an issue immediately, now you have to communicate in chat, which is slower and much more linear. To reach the same conclusion, it takes at least twice the time.
   True, commute time has been eliminated, which means people can start working earlier and finish later if they need to conclude a particular task. But the downsides are pretty disruptive too.

So to conclude, yes, we want to bring to the HTML5 version everything you love in the Flash version. But it's going to take time, because we're only human, we've got limited resources, and we're spending a ton of time keeping the Flash version alive because players still want to play it.

There's no easy way out of this. But the sooner everyone moves to the HTML5 version, the sooner we can make it into the kind of game you want it to be.

On a final note - some people have criticized us about releasing new content instead of fixing the game. I've said this many times but it bears repeating. Releasing new content is not an option - it's a necessity. An MMO without new content is destined to die pretty quickly. There are no two ways about it. We've been going for 11 years. Yes, we've messed up many times, but the game and community are still alive. In the 11 years Tanki Online has been around, tens of thousands of games have come and gone.

This is a time where we need all of the community's support. It's make or break time. Keep helping us with your feedback so we can give you the kind of games you enjoy.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, Ghost_Animators said:

Yes exactly same

Oh Damn. That's quite a significant difference.

[Catbird 117]

49 minutes ago, theFiringHand said:

Yes, I see your point, and it's a message that came out loud and clear in our other thread where we asked players to tell us what they wanted to see improved in the HTML5 version.

We are acting on that feedback, but there are a number of reasons it's happening slowly:

Thank you so much for your feedback and clarifications. I certainly understand why it is difficult to translate a game into a completely different language while keeping alive a dying version... I didn't realize the latter task was so energy consuming. 

It's certainly a tricky situation... I think the important thing is that players have the assurance that the features they miss from Flash will be integrated into HTML5. Judging from the feedback you have given and the other thread devoted to getting player feedback, it seems to me things are going in the right direction.

Also, to promote phasing out, maybe one thing would be to showcase more the HTML5 version? From what I understand eSports still use the Flash version for the presentation, for instance.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Catbird

[Joeguy 941]

57 minutes ago, theFiringHand said:

Spoiler

Yes, I see your point, and it's a message that came out loud and clear in our other thread where we asked players to tell us what they wanted to see improved in the HTML5 version.

We are acting on that feedback, but there are a number of reasons it's happening slowly:

1. HTML5 and Flash are two very different technologies, so you can't just copy and paste the coding like someone suggested earlier. I'm sure you already know this, but many people don't realize it.
2. Tanki Online was never intended to be a game. It was simply meant to be a showcase piece for the Alternativa Engine, which was to be a Flash 3D engine for games. That's what the company originally set out to do 11 years ago. When, Tanki blew up in popularity, they capitalized on that. However, since Tanki wasn't meant to be a proper game, no effort had been made to code it in a properly structured way.
   Over the years, our programming team had to balance between adding content to a messy piece of software, and keeping it running without anything blowing up in their faces. In turn, this accrued a lot of "technical debt" - lots of stuff needed to be fixed, but there was no time or resources to fix it. And what's worse, the older, bigger problems kept getting buried deeper and deeper, making it harder to dig them up and fix them without making the whole thing come crashing down around our ears. One such problem is what caused the Tankopocalypse a few years ago.
   So, when Adobe finally announced they would discontinue Flash, the team saw it as an opportunity to move on to a new technology - HTML5, and more importantly, the chance to rebuild Tanki PROPERLY, in a structured way, and not as a sloppy mess of hastily-put-together lines of code.
3. That brings me to my next point - we're practically rewriting the game in another language, and that takes a ton of time. Those of you here who can speak multiple languages, even fluently, can tell you how hard it is to translate something. I'll give you a stupid example:
   English: "My name is Cedric"
   Italian: "Il mio nome è Cedric" - structure very close to English
   Maltese: "Jien jisimni Cedric" - structure changes - "I am named Cedric"
   Russian: "Меня зовут Седрик" - structure changes - "At me call Cedric"
   Now when it comes to human languages, you have some degree of artistic liberty. And unless you're translating a legal text (done that many times and I wanted to tear my eyes out), you can play around with sentence structure. And that is STILL a major pain, because your brain needs to keep switching from one structure to the other.
   But when you're dealing with a programming language, it becomes even harder. Precision is not an option. More importantly, you have to plan ahead when coding. Your code needs to be structured in a way that makes it scalable. And there are loads of industry best practices to follow, to make sure that someone else can work with your code if you leave.
   It's actually much more complex than that, but this post is already pretty long, so I won't press the point.
4. We're spending so much time fighting fires in the Flash version, that our development of the HTML5 version is practically moving at a crawl.
   We've said this many times before, but it bears repeating. In recent years we've practically doubled our number of programmers, and we still can't keep up with the desired speed of development, because the fires in the Flash version keep getting bigger and bigger. Every day, something new breaks or some other part dies. Seriously, if zombies and aliens started jumping out of the code at this point, I wouldn't even be surprised.
5. This damned COVID hasn't made things any easier. Everybody is constrained to working from home. This slows things down. Where before you used to get into a meeting room and discuss an issue immediately, now you have to communicate in chat, which is slower and much more linear. To reach the same conclusion, it takes at least twice the time.
   True, commute time has been eliminated, which means people can start working earlier and finish later if they need to conclude a particular task. But the downsides are pretty disruptive too.

So to conclude, yes, we want to bring to the HTML5 version everything you love in the Flash version. But it's going to take time, because we're only human, we've got limited resources, and we're spending a ton of time keeping the Flash version alive because players still want to play it.

There's no easy way out of this. But the sooner everyone moves to the HTML5 version, the sooner we can make it into the kind of game you want it to be.

On a final note - some people have criticized us about releasing new content instead of fixing the game. I've said this many times but it bears repeating. Releasing new content is not an option - it's a necessity. An MMO without new content is destined to die pretty quickly. There are no two ways about it. We've been going for 11 years. Yes, we've messed up many times, but the game and community are still alive. In the 11 years Tanki Online has been around, tens of thousands of games have come and gone.

This is a time where we need all of the community's support. It's make or break time. Keep helping us with your feedback so we can give you the kind of games you enjoy.

 

Your point 1.  "can't just copy and paste the coding"   OK, got it

Your point 2 and 3. "since Tanki wasn't meant to be a proper game, no effort had been made to code it in a properly structured way."  "we're practically rewriting the game in another language" What does that even matter in regards to HTML since you "can't just copy and paste the coding.  HTML is a chance to do it all better because you have to newly code it all anyway, so why were so many features left out of the HTML version?  Why did the battle interface change so much?  Why did the garage and lobby change so much?  Why make HTML less efficient than Flash?  Why not use Flash as a template and try to duplicate it in HTML (not copy code, but replicate the Flash version)?  Why change colors to washed out drabness and fonts to itty-bitty teeny-weeny?  Why not use Flash as a template and try to duplicate it in HTML (not copy code, but replicate the Flash version)?

Your point 4.  "We're spending so much time fighting fires in the Flash version, that our development of the HTML5 version is practically moving at a crawl."  But yet there is time to generate constant changes and alterations to game mechanics and generate event after event.  And why wasn't HTML based more on the Flash version before it was even released?  Maybe the best option might be to pull the HTML version before Flash dies completely and get it to resemble and work as well as Flash instead of trying to limp both along.

Your point 5. "This damned COVID"   I sympathize...I hope everyone stays healthy and safe.

Your conclusion point.   "Releasing new content is not an option - it's a necessity"  I disagree with this emphatically, especially in regards to the new content released by Tanki in the recent past.  ODs?  I bet, even now after a year or so, a majority of players would prefer to not have ODs at all.  Drones?  If no one had them there would be no need to have them so no one would want them...drones didn't help the game-play they are just a way to sell more product.  Alterations?  Did they improve the game?  I don't think so.  Like drones they are part of the game now and you need them to stay competitive, but if they were done away with or never introduced the game would be more playable.  Supply madness?   Another Tanki engineered money grab....the game has not been improved by the fact you need to spam supplies almost all the time to be competitive.  It was better when supplies were used infrequently.  Stars?  Turned from team play into selfish star grabs and multiplied the number of passive players or "mults" dramatically.  Harder missions?  I doubt anyone likes the harder missions.  Tankoins?  They only made buying for freebie players much more difficult since after their initial advent Tanki economy has started to focus of Tankoins rather than crystals.  A case in point would be trying to buy a kit now (kits, another bit of new altered content).  There are more offenses, but this is turning into another text wall.

 

Most of the 100,000+ players that have stopped playing Tanki didn't leave because there wasn't enough new content...they left because there was too much new content.  

 

 

 

[featwasath 267]

There are things you guys should fix before forcing us into HTML5.

 

1. Whenever I enter the HTML5 version (via Firefox) I'm kicked out in few minutes with an error message. It's not at all nice

2. This HTML5 version is super laggy & slow (in both browsers & client). Maybe it's a problem with my poor PC, but the flash version is always playable for me without any lag or slowness 

3. It's impossible to play in HTML5 client, cause I'm given an error message every few minutes & then being kicked out from the game. I need to close the program, then reopen it & log in, but hey, I'm given the same error message in another few minutes & the cycle repeats 

4. Majority of the players don't like the UI of HTML5 version. Please make it look like the flash version. This one is not much important like the first 3 BTW

[theFiringHand 21,351]

25 minutes ago, Joeguy said:

Your point 2 and 3. "since Tanki wasn't meant to be a proper game, no effort had been made to code it in a properly structured way."  "we're practically rewriting the game in another language" What does that even matter in regards to HTML since you "can't just copy and paste the coding.  HTML is a chance to do it all better because you have to newly code it all anyway, so why were so many features left out of the HTML version?  Why did the battle interface change so much?  Why did the garage and lobby change so much?  Why make HTML less efficient than Flash?  Why not use Flash as a template and try to duplicate it in HTML (not copy code, but replicate the Flash version)?  Why change colors to washed out drabness and fonts to itty-bitty teeny-weeny?  Why not use Flash as a template and try to duplicate it in HTML (not copy code, but replicate the Flash version)?

Ok, one point at a time:

"HTML is a chance to do it all better because you have to newly code it all anyway, so why were so many features left out of the HTML version? Why make HTML less efficient than Flash?"

Because we're still working on it. It's not finished yet. But the situation with Flash was so critical that we had to release it fast.

"Why did the battle interface change so much?  Why did the garage and lobby change so much? Why not use Flash as a template and try to duplicate it in HTML (not copy code, but replicate the Flash version)?"

Because, having to re-create from scratch, we took the opportunity to try and make a cleaner, less cluttered look. Some things worked out well. Others, not so much. We're tweaking as we go.

We're taking all the feedback we get from players and trying to learn from it. Not everything the community asks for is feasible or makes sense within the grand scheme of things, but we're really trying to implement as much of it as we can.

As for your point on new content, I shared our reasons in the original point. There's not much more I can add.

But thank you for taking the time to engage in this discussion. This kind of conversation is what helps both the dev team and the community.

Remember, we're not here to hurt the community. We're a business, which means we need customers, so we need to make them happy, while turning enough profit to keep shareholders happy and our staff employed. I know that it's hard to reconcile this fact for many people, and I honestly understand it. But we're all in this together.

 

 

[theFiringHand 21,351]

15 minutes ago, featwasath said:

There are things you guys should fix before forcing us into HTML5.

 

1. Whenever I enter the HTML5 version (via Firefox) I'm kicked out in few minutes with an error message. It's not at all nice

2. This HTML5 version is super laggy & slow (in both browsers & client). Maybe it's a problem with my poor PC, but the flash version is always playable for me without any lag or slowness 

3. It's impossible to play in HTML5 client, cause I'm given an error message every few minutes & then being kicked out from the game. I need to close the program, then reopen it & log in, but hey, I'm given the same error message in another few minutes & the cycle repeats 

4. Majority of the players don't like the UI of HTML5 version. Please make it look like the flash version. This one is not much important like the first 3 BTW

This is why we need detailed feedback. If you're having issues with the HTML5 version, the solution isn't to stick with Flash. You need to contact support and give them as much detail as possible. You want these bugs fixed. Believe me when I say that our programmers want them fixed at least as much as you do.

Please send an email on help@tankionline.com. Give all the details you can. Screenshots, error messages, system configuration - anything you can think of, even if you think it might sound stupid. Sometimes, bugs come from the most unexpected sources, so no piece of information that you submit will be considered stupid. Every little bit helps.

[featwasath 267]

4 minutes ago, theFiringHand said:

This is why we need detailed feedback. If you're having issues with the HTML5 version, the solution isn't to stick with Flash. You need to contact support and give them as much detail as possible. You want these bugs fixed. Believe me when I say that our programmers want them fixed at least as much as you do.

Please send an email on help@tankionline.com. Give all the details you can. Screenshots, error messages, system configuration - anything you can think of, even if you think it might sound stupid. Sometimes, bugs come from the most unexpected sources, so no piece of information that you submit will be considered stupid. Every little bit helps.

Hey, thanks for replying. I'll collect them all & write an email 

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

2 hours ago, theFiringHand said:

Spoiler

es, I see your point, and it's a message that came out loud and clear in our other thread where we asked players to tell us what they wanted to see improved in the HTML5 version.

We are acting on that feedback, but there are a number of reasons it's happening slowly:

1. HTML5 and Flash are two very different technologies, so you can't just copy and paste the coding like someone suggested earlier. I'm sure you already know this, but many people don't realize it.
2. Tanki Online was never intended to be a game. It was simply meant to be a showcase piece for the Alternativa Engine, which was to be a Flash 3D engine for games. That's what the company originally set out to do 11 years ago. When, Tanki blew up in popularity, they capitalized on that. However, since Tanki wasn't meant to be a proper game, no effort had been made to code it in a properly structured way.
   Over the years, our programming team had to balance between adding content to a messy piece of software, and keeping it running without anything blowing up in their faces. In turn, this accrued a lot of "technical debt" - lots of stuff needed to be fixed, but there was no time or resources to fix it. And what's worse, the older, bigger problems kept getting buried deeper and deeper, making it harder to dig them up and fix them without making the whole thing come crashing down around our ears. One such problem is what caused the Tankopocalypse a few years ago.
   So, when Adobe finally announced they would discontinue Flash, the team saw it as an opportunity to move on to a new technology - HTML5, and more importantly, the chance to rebuild Tanki PROPERLY, in a structured way, and not as a sloppy mess of hastily-put-together lines of code.
3. That brings me to my next point - we're practically rewriting the game in another language, and that takes a ton of time. Those of you here who can speak multiple languages, even fluently, can tell you how hard it is to translate something. I'll give you a stupid example:
   English: "My name is Cedric"
   Italian: "Il mio nome è Cedric" - structure very close to English
   Maltese: "Jien jisimni Cedric" - structure changes - "I am named Cedric"
   Russian: "Меня зовут Седрик" - structure changes - "At me call Cedric"
   Now when it comes to human languages, you have some degree of artistic liberty. And unless you're translating a legal text (done that many times and I wanted to tear my eyes out), you can play around with sentence structure. And that is STILL a major pain, because your brain needs to keep switching from one structure to the other.
   But when you're dealing with a programming language, it becomes even harder. Precision is not an option. More importantly, you have to plan ahead when coding. Your code needs to be structured in a way that makes it scalable. And there are loads of industry best practices to follow, to make sure that someone else can work with your code if you leave.
   It's actually much more complex than that, but this post is already pretty long, so I won't press the point.
4. We're spending so much time fighting fires in the Flash version, that our development of the HTML5 version is practically moving at a crawl.
   We've said this many times before, but it bears repeating. In recent years we've practically doubled our number of programmers, and we still can't keep up with the desired speed of development, because the fires in the Flash version keep getting bigger and bigger. Every day, something new breaks or some other part dies. Seriously, if zombies and aliens started jumping out of the code at this point, I wouldn't even be surprised.
5. This damned COVID hasn't made things any easier. Everybody is constrained to working from home. This slows things down. Where before you used to get into a meeting room and discuss an issue immediately, now you have to communicate in chat, which is slower and much more linear. To reach the same conclusion, it takes at least twice the time.
   True, commute time has been eliminated, which means people can start working earlier and finish later if they need to conclude a particular task. But the downsides are pretty disruptive too.

So to conclude, yes, we want to bring to the HTML5 version everything you love in the Flash version. But it's going to take time, because we're only human, we've got limited resources, and we're spending a ton of time keeping the Flash version alive because players still want to play it.

There's no easy way out of this. But the sooner everyone moves to the HTML5 version, the sooner we can make it into the kind of game you want it to be.

On a final note - some people have criticized us about releasing new content instead of fixing the game. I've said this many times but it bears repeating. Releasing new content is not an option - it's a necessity. An MMO without new content is destined to die pretty quickly. There are no two ways about it. We've been going for 11 years. Yes, we've messed up many times, but the game and community are still alive. In the 11 years Tanki Online has been around, tens of thousands of games have come and gone.

This is a time where we need all of the community's support. It's make or break time. Keep helping us with your feedback so we can give you the kind of games you enjoy.

 

Thank you for explaining this! To be perfectly honest, when I recently returned to Tanki (because you never leave, you just take a break) I too did not like the HTML 5 version very much. As time has gone on, I've grown to love this version far more than the flash version because at some point, practicality does overtake nostalgia. I quite like all the extra things and the layout now. I do think it took me a few weeks to get used to it, but I do have to say it's quite a bit better. I certainly hope that with the Flash version going away soon, this version gets all the amazing updates that are no doubt in store for Tanki.

[mrvomit 106]

My report about client. 1 out of 10 times it starts ( other times says error after a long wait)  Then is laggier and slower . Update:uninstalled .
Specs. i7 4970k, 32gb ram ( ddr3 ) , gtx  1080 ti 11gb nvidia card.

[Troll 8]

Looks like the coffin guys has the flash version on their shoulder  

[Merovingian 656]

3 hours ago, Joeguy said:

Your point 2 and 3. "since Tanki wasn't meant to be a proper game, no effort had been made to code it in a properly structured way."  "we're practically rewriting the game in another language" What does that even matter in regards to HTML since you "can't just copy and paste the coding.  HTML is a chance to do it all better because you have to newly code it all anyway, so why were so many features left out of the HTML version?  Why did the battle interface change so much?  Why did the garage and lobby change so much?  Why make HTML less efficient than Flash?  Why not use Flash as a template and try to duplicate it in HTML (not copy code, but replicate the Flash version)?  Why change colors to washed out drabness and fonts to itty-bitty teeny-weeny?  Why not use Flash as a template and try to duplicate it in HTML (not copy code, but replicate the Flash version)?

Your point 4.  "We're spending so much time fighting fires in the Flash version, that our development of the HTML5 version is practically moving at a crawl."  But yet there is time to generate constant changes and alterations to game mechanics and generate event after event.  And why wasn't HTML based more on the Flash version before it was even released?  Maybe the best option might be to pull the HTML version before Flash dies completely and get it to resemble and work as well as Flash instead of trying to limp both along.

Your point 5. "This damned COVID"   I sympathize...I hope everyone stays healthy and safe.

Your conclusion point.   "Releasing new content is not an option - it's a necessity"  I disagree with this emphatically, especially in regards to the new content released by Tanki in the recent past.  ODs?  I bet, even now after a year or so, a majority of players would prefer to not have ODs at all.  Drones?  If no one had them there would be no need to have them so no one would want them...drones didn't help the game-play they are just a way to sell more product.  Alterations?  Did they improve the game?  I don't think so.  Like drones they are part of the game now and you need them to stay competitive, but if they were done away with or never introduced the game would be more playable.  Supply madness?   Another Tanki engineered money grab....the game has not been improved by the fact you need to spam supplies almost all the time to be competitive.  It was better when supplies were used infrequently.  Stars?  Turned from team play into selfish star grabs and multiplied the number of passive players or "mults" dramatically.  Harder missions?  I doubt anyone likes the harder missions.  Tankoins?  They only made buying for freebie players much more difficult since after their initial advent Tanki economy has started to focus of Tankoins rather than crystals.  A case in point would be trying to buy a kit now (kits, another bit of new altered content).  There are more offenses, but this is turning into another text wall.

Most of the 100,000+ players that have stopped playing Tanki didn't leave because there wasn't enough new content...they left because there was too much new content.  

2&3/ HTML5 has everything that Flash had. It is the same game of pvp tank. Re-codding entirely means you can restructure the coding to add more features (radar,...) and more complex design (sortable table score,...). However they took the oportunity to improve the IU, the game lobby and the garage (set up, color, animation....), it s a revamping to modernised the sex appeal of the game. They won't revert to the simplistic and vintage display.

4/ Flash is all patched up, when you keep adding new things over 7 years with different codders, you end up with a complex patchwork. But don't worry, HTML5 will end up the same after a few years. And yes "pull the HTML version before Flash dies completely" that what they are doing. However it will still be different to the old flash green version user interface (lobby, garage, radar, missions panel, shop,...). The main change is that HTML5 game require a better computer than with flash, that's a fact, therefore many players will need to upgrade their IT equipment.

Conclusion/ TO is right, majority of players wants new stuff. Alteration they improved the game, 95% of the player use an alteration. Drones are indeed P2W, so they finance the game that you can play for free. OD is not a necessity, but it gives some depth to the game and strategy, as it is free it helps noobs to defeat other strongly OP players, and it re-balances the weakness of lighter hulls. Supplies is indeed out of control, given by the thousand you can't avoid them but it has nothing to do with flash vs html5 discussion, and it is not new (not sure why you have listed it here, seems like you have an overall dislike of the game even in flash). ...
100,000+ player left because it is a competitive game and not designed for casual players, furthermore if you do not invest money (in an account) your have less regret to leave and move on to a more trendy game (f2p are now everywhere to see). At least there is no adds in TO and that, I do appreciate it.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Merovingian

[theFiringHand 21,351]

13 minutes ago, Merovingian said:

100,000+ player left because it is a competitive game and not for casual players, furthermore if you do not invest money (in an account) your have less regret to leave and move on to a more trendy game (f2p are everywhere). At least there is no adds in TO and that i do appreciate this.

And there's another point too. The game is 11 years old. Players have a "life cycle" in any game. And the older a game gets, the harder it becomes to attract players, even with large-scale DLCs like what WoW has been doing. Yes, they get a re-injection of new players, but then it falls off. It's perfectly normal, and not even a giant like Blizzard is immune to this phenomenon. That's why they diversify into new games. We're doing that too, but we're a very small studio, so it takes time.

[Joeguy 941]

2 minutes ago, theFiringHand said:

And there's another point too. The game is 11 years old. Players have a "life cycle" in any game. And the older a game gets, the harder it becomes to attract players, even with large-scale DLCs like what WoW has been doing. Yes, they get a re-injection of new players, but then it falls off. It's perfectly normal, and not even a giant like Blizzard is immune to this phenomenon. That's why they diversify into new games. We're doing that too, but we're a very small studio, so it takes time.

I have heard the rational before from Tanki spokespeople, and that is all it is, a rationalization.  If you look at the unpopular updates like MatchMaking, several of the very unpopular updates to accommodate MatchMaking, more difficult missions, ODs, etc. you will see big drop offs in player base not long after these updates are released. 

Sure, Tanki would have lost some players over time as do all games, but not at the horrendous rate their Pay to Win campaign has engendered.  One of the big reasons people quit is because of Tanki's constant "re balance" act with the buff/nerf cycle.  Personally, I believe that this also costs Tanki plenty in their bottom line....who wants to send in money for equipment that is in a constant state of flux?

Also, if Tanki had shown integrity and good ethics over the last few years and the game had stayed as playable as it once was, who knows how much organic growth might have seen?  It is only speculation at this point, but I think Tanki might have very well been able to increase their player base three or even four fold.  It was a great game that was slowly getting a larger and larger player base until around the time of the Paint Separation when things started to fall apart.  I believe that was about the time Hazel-Rah took over development and instituted a new strategies to increase Tanki's bottom line (PTW).  I'm sure he did and has continued to increase profits, but it wasn't the only way to have done so and his way has lost the game hundreds of thousands of players over the last few years.  Now Tanki has such a small player base that the ultimate switch to an inferior HTML might spell the eventual doom of the game entirely.  A lot is riding on getting HTML to work as well as Flash.

Tanki hasn't declined from natural attrition, but from minuscule organic growth and misguided updates and changes to the game.

 

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

6 hours ago, Ghost_Animators said:

This is the difference in maximum Scope of Shaft in HTML5 and Flash version.

Thanks for raising that argument, I was wondering when someone would pick up on it. The sniping experience feels much more clunky there for some reason, and the turret rotation when firing is actually noticeably slower, especially when using Light Capacitors, which means there's some kind of mismatch in statistics. It doesn't help that the scope moves vertically with extreme sensitivity compared to the horizontal one.

4 hours ago, theFiringHand said:

1. Tanki Online was never intended to be a game. It was simply meant to be a showcase piece for the Alternativa Engine, which was to be a Flash 3D engine for games. That's what the company originally set out to do 11 years ago. When, Tanki blew up in popularity, they capitalized on that. However, since Tanki wasn't meant to be a proper game, no effort had been made to code it in a properly structured way.
   Over the years, our programming team had to balance between adding content to a messy piece of software, and keeping it running without anything blowing up in their faces. In turn, this accrued a lot of "technical debt" - lots of stuff needed to be fixed, but there was no time or resources to fix it. And what's worse, the older, bigger problems kept getting buried deeper and deeper, making it harder to dig them up and fix them without making the whole thing come crashing down around our ears. One such problem is what caused the Tankopocalypse a few years ago.
   So, when Adobe finally announced they would discontinue Flash, the team saw it as an opportunity to move on to a new technology - HTML5, and more importantly, the chance to rebuild Tanki PROPERLY, in a structured way, and not as a sloppy mess of hastily-put-together lines of code.

So to conclude, yes, we want to bring to the HTML5 version everything you love in the Flash version. But it's going to take time, because we're only human, we've got limited resources, and we're spending a ton of time keeping the Flash version alive because players still want to play it.

There's no easy way out of this. But the sooner everyone moves to the HTML5 version, the sooner we can make it into the kind of game you want it to be.

On a final note - some people have criticized us about releasing new content instead of fixing the game. I've said this many times but it bears repeating. Releasing new content is not an option - it's a necessity. An MMO without new content is destined to die pretty quickly. There are no two ways about it. We've been going for 11 years. Yes, we've messed up many times, but the game and community are still alive. In the 11 years Tanki Online has been around, tens of thousands of games have come and gone.

This is a time where we need all of the community's support. It's make or break time. Keep helping us with your feedback so we can give you the kind of games you enjoy.

This. This is the kind of honesty that everyone values and that is apparently absent according to critics of the game. Like it or not, the players have a chance to contribute something into the game, maybe not directly, but still something.

Speak now or forever hold your peace.

46 minutes ago, theFiringHand said:

And there's another point too. The game is 11 years old. Players have a "life cycle" in any game. And the older a game gets, the harder it becomes to attract players, even with large-scale DLCs like what WoW has been doing. Yes, they get a re-injection of new players, but then it falls off. It's perfectly normal, and not even a giant like Blizzard is immune to this phenomenon. That's why they diversify into new games. We're doing that too, but we're a very small studio, so it takes time.

That's true, very true in fact. I don't think you realize the scale of the success of TO, though. Classic AAA games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Halo, which released at the same time as Tanki are now in a state of near death. And I'm talking in hundreds of players, not the thousands that we still have here.

So for a free game that was pretty much overlooked by most of the gaming world, I say that we're doing pretty damn fine even though these times might seem rough.

19 minutes ago, Joeguy said:

I have heard the rational before from Tanki spokespeople, and that is all it is, a rationalization.  If you look at the unpopular updates like MatchMaking, several of the very unpopular updates to accommodate MatchMaking, more difficult missions, ODs, etc. you will see big drop offs in player base not long after these updates are released. 

Also, if Tanki had shown integrity and good ethics over the last few years and the game had stayed as playable as it once was, who knows how much organic growth might have seen?  It is only speculation at this point, but I think Tanki might have very well been able to increase their player base three or even four fold.  It was a great game that was slowly getting a larger and larger player base until around the time of the Paint Separation when things started to fall apart.  I believe that was about the time Hazel-Rah took over development and instituted a new strategies to increase Tanki's bottom line (PTW).  I'm sure he did and has continued to increase profits, but it wasn't the only way to have done so and his way has lost the game hundreds of thousands of players over the last few years.  Now Tanki has such a small player base that the ultimate switch to an inferior HTML might spell the eventual doom of the game entirely.  A lot is riding on getting HTML to work as well as Flash.

Tanki hasn't declined from natural attrition, but from minuscule organic growth and misguided updates and changes to the game.

Matchmaking opened up new possibilities for people who had previously been unable to play to their fullest due to the overwhelming popularity of some maps, modes, etc. People can now earn enough supplies to stay competitive by just investing their time into actually playing. While the rewards aren't massive, they're enough to keep the average player going.

I can't say I agree with all of the updates thus far. But as far as I'm concerned, Hazel is not entirely to blame here. Just because you represent something doesn't mean that you have absolute and total control over the decisions that are made.

[Sword-of-Damocles 83]

There needs to be an option to be able change controls in the settings in HTML 5  like the flash version.