Protection Modules Not Protecting?

[Dayzed 30]

I was playing today with Titan MK7-20, Vulcan MK7-20, and protection module Shark MK7-15 against a player with Hornet, Vulcan and Shark combo, we both had the same alterations enabled.

 

He sliced through me every time, different ranges and different elevations, I don't think my tank could have exploded any quicker with no protection module. I have noticed this a few times during battles with different turrets where for some reason my protection seems to be zero. 

It's just today where I could see clearly, all things being equal there is no way a Titan should be losing to a Hornet.

 

What am I missing, is this a glitch, hack or some sort of twisted game balancing going on?

[Toby 2,938]

A few different reasons (most likely combined all in one) for your situation:

• Hornet's overdrive (ignoring all types of protections);
• Current overpowering strength of Vulcan;
• Booster drone (up to 200% additional supply power when activating double damage).

[wolverine848 13,097]

7 minutes ago, Dayzed said:

I was playing today with Titan MK7-20, Vulcan MK7-20, and protection module Shark MK7-15 against a player with Hornet, Vulcan and Shark combo, we both had the same alterations enabled.

 

He sliced through me every time, different ranges and different elevations, I don't think my tank could have exploded any quicker with no protection module. I have noticed this a few times during battles with different turrets where for some reason my protection seems to be zero. 

It's just today where I could see clearly, all things being equal there is no way a Titan should be losing to a Hornet.

 

What am I missing, is this a glitch, hack or some sort of twisted game balancing going on?

If the hornet OverDrive was active your module does nothing for you. 

You have no defense vs hornet OD.  None. Zero. Nada. Zip.    That's why you see at least 6 hornets per battle.

[Maf 32,300]

18 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

If the hornet OverDrive was active your module does nothing for you. 

You have no defense vs hornet OD.  None. Zero. Nada. Zip.    That's why you see at least 6 hornets per battle.

The best defence against a Hornet is attack. If you react fast enough, you may be able to kill it before it deals much damage. Doesn't really work though if it's using Defender, or is camping on the other side of the map.

[Viking4s 10,791]

I you face a Hornet that looks like hypnotic circle coming out of it, then it means its Overdive is on and your protection are disable against him for 20 s.

The Hornet active overdrives looks like that:

I forgot to say, hide if you see an Hornet like that

Edited May 16, 2020 by Viking4s

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Hornet OD. case closed.

[wolverine848 13,097]

19 minutes ago, Maf said:

The best defence against a Hornet is attack. If you react fast enough, you may be able to kill it before it deals much damage. Doesn't really work though if it's using Defender, or is camping on the other side of the map.

Well this is how most of them operate though right?

If they don't have defender drone they ambush and get the first shot.  That's all they need.  One-shot-kills.

And then there's Titan - activates the stationary dome and there's what... 4 or 5 counters to that Dome?  How does that seem balanced?

I can't believe people are still defending this OD.  It's ruining the game.  

[Maf 32,300]

30 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Well this is how most of them operate though right?

I don't know about others, but I mostly play Hornet Magnum with Booster, and getting OD means going in the middle of the enemy base and shooting as many people as possible. And I do find that my low health and weight means that my biggest issue is when enemies start shooting me and knocking me around.

[Maf 32,300]

37 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

And then there's Titan - activates the stationary dome and there's what... 4 or 5 counters to that Dome?  How does that seem balanced?

Titan is a bit complex because it has multiple benefits and disadvantages.

Yes, it can be overcome by Wasp, Hornet, Hunter, Mammoth and other Titans, but:

• It provides protection for potentially the whole team, extremely powerful in modes like ASL and SGE
• It's one of the longest lasting overdrives
• It has a fast recharge rate
• It continues working for the benefit of your team even if you die. Hell, in the recent solo juggernaut event, I placed the dome right after I killed juggernaut and had 10 seconds of 95% protection when I spawned as juggernaut.
• It can counter Wasps and other Titans

So I think overall it's quite fair.

[wolverine848 13,097]

28 minutes ago, Maf said:

Titan is a bit complex because it has multiple benefits and disadvantages.

Yes, it can be overcome by Wasp, Hornet, Hunter, Mammoth and other Titans, but:

• It provides protection for potentially the whole team, extremely powerful in modes like ASL and SGE
• It's one of the longest lasting overdrives
• It has a fast recharge rate
• It continues working for the benefit of your team even if you die. Hell, in the recent solo juggernaut event, I placed the dome right after I killed juggernaut and had 10 seconds of 95% protection when I spawned as juggernaut.
• It can counter Wasps and other Titans

So I think overall it's quite fair.

It's "long-lasting" duration is meaningless when many opponents can punch through it or out-right disable it.

I've planted the dome and died 5 seconds later.  Not much use in that is there?

[wolverine848 13,097]

46 minutes ago, Maf said:

I don't know about others, but I mostly play Hornet Magnum with Booster, and getting OD means going in the middle of the enemy base and shooting as many people as possible. And I do find that my low health and weight means that my biggest issue is when enemies start shooting me and knocking me around.

Well then you are doing it wrong.  Why the heck you need Booster when you have the OD + DD?

If you are not equipping defender then you risk getting killed before making optimal use of the OD.

I should be so lucky to have most of my enemies doing that.  Rails just camp and peek-ago with scout or LCR.

It's the vulcan's that use defender as they can "camp" in plain sight and mow everyone down.  Seriously - how can you mods keep defending this OD?

[Viking4s 10,791]

15 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Seriously - how can you mods keep defending this OD?

Cos it is weak. Weaker than Hunter OD. duh

[Maf 32,300]

19 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Why the heck you need Booster when you have the OD + DD?

Mostly to increase the splash damage when I'm shooting groups of enemies. Also to help me deal with heavy hulls. For some reason I don't like using defender because Defender is simply OP, while Booster gives that awesome satisfaction of being able to one-shot a viking with DA or 50% protection. Or getting 7 kills with one shot under a gold box.

For the record - I'm not defending Hornet's OD. I agree that it's OP and I suggested ways to nerf it in multiple places.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

13 minutes ago, Viking4s said:

Cos it is weak. Weaker than Hunter OD. duh

Yeah, it's weaker than hunters OD even thought hunters EMP is short ranged, has a delay, and doesn't kill the enemy. Sure buddy.

 

9 minutes ago, Maf said:

agree that it's OP and I suggested ways to nerf it in multiple places.

IMO, it shouldn't be allowed to completely ignore everything. Just 75% ignore everything.

[Viking4s 10,791]

5 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Yeah, it's weaker than hunters OD even thought hunters EMP is short ranged, has a delay, and doesn't kill the enemy. Sure buddy.

The Hornet's OD do not kill enemy either, budy. And if you have a short range turret, the OD will be short range too. With Hornet, enemies can still move and hide.
Immobilising and remove all the supplies a full line of defence or attack make the Hunter a powerful tactical tool that can easily change the balance of a game. If you are not aware of this, then you are under using the Hunter.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Viking4s

[Maf 32,300]

3 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

IMO, it shouldn't be allowed to completely ignore everything. Just 75% ignore everything.

What I suggested was to make it ignore only one strongest protection. In order from strongest to weakest: spawn protection, Titan dome, DA, module. So if a tank just spawned and used DA, you'll be able to ignore spawn protection, but not the DA. Once spawn protection ends, you will ignore the DA.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

3 minutes ago, Viking4s said:

The Hornet's OD do not kill enemy either,

All the hornet needs to do is click shift, use double damage, and shoot and the enemy won't know what hit them. Hunter has to get in close to be able to use its OD, and even if you successfully used it you still have to kill the enemy to prevent them from becoming unstunned and possibly using their OD.

10 minutes ago, Maf said:

What I suggested was to make it ignore only one strongest protection. In order from strongest to weakest: spawn protection, Titan dome, DA, module. So if a tank just spawned and used DA, you'll be able to ignore spawn protection, but not the DA. Once spawn protection ends, you will ignore the DA.

I really don't like the thought that it can affect the spawn protection. Makes the spawn protection rather pointless.

[featwasath 267]

34 minutes ago, Maf said:

What I suggested was to make it ignore only one strongest protection. In order from strongest to weakest: spawn protection, Titan dome, DA, module. So if a tank just spawned and used DA, you'll be able to ignore spawn protection, but not the DA. Once spawn protection ends, you will ignore the DA.

If an enemy has 50% protection against your turret & equip DA, you'll end-up making only 1/4 od the output damage of your turret. That isn't fair. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

29 minutes ago, Viking4s said:

The Hornet's OD do not kill enemy either, budy. And if you have a short range turret, the OD will be short range too. With Hornet, enemies can still move and hide.
Immobilising and remove all the supplies a full line of defence or attack make the Hunter a powerful tactical tool that can easily change the balance of a game. If you are not aware of this, then you are under using the Hunter.

I've used hunter plenty and it does not generate score.  And does not affect protections like modules. If target has 50% module it has a decent chance to respond in kind after 2.2 seconds or whatever the current timing is. 

Helps team - yes.  But does not do much for generating your personal score in a battle - unlike many of the other ODs that facilitate killing much better.

Other than a kill-all button, murder-hornets OD is the best thing for killing the enemy.  And it's your choice to equip a short-ranged turret.  The OD allows the user to extend it's killing ability to the full range of the turret.  Hunter OD absolutely does not do that.  It's OD is only synergistic with short and melee ranged turrets.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Just now, Ap3xA1pha said:

Yeah, whoever thinks Hunter's OD is stronger than Hornet's OD is probably drunk on the same vodka as the devs.

It's been nerfed to oblivion, and still players cry because they missed a gold or couldn't cap 1 flag in assault.  Of course they keep ignoring the fact a mammoth or hornet OD can make them drop that flag just as easily.

[featwasath 267]

1 minute ago, wolverine848 said:

I've used hunter plenty and it does not generate score.  And does not affect protections like modules. If target has 50% module it has a decent chance to respond in kind after 2.2 seconds or whatever the current timing is. 

Helps team - yes.  But does not do much for generating your personal score in a battle - unlike many of the other ODs that facilitate killing much better.

Other than a kill-all button, murder-hornets OD is the best thing for killing the enemy.  And it's your choice to equip a short-ranged turret.  The OD allows the user to extend it's killing ability to the full range of the turret.  Hunter OD absolutely does not do that.  It's OD is only synergistic with short and melee ranged turrets.

Some ODs are defensive & some are attacking. You need to understand the difference. Hornet OD is attacking type, like Viking & Wasp ODs. Why are you so against Hornet OD.? Do enemy Hornets keep chasing you all around the map & chasing only you.? Is your ex using playing with Hornet mostly.? Common dude, Hornet OD isn't that much OP like some of you guys are trying to prove 

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 minutes ago, featwasath said:

Some ODs are defensive & some are attacking. You need to understand the difference. Hornet OD is attacking type, like Viking & Wasp ODs. Why are you so against Hornet OD.? Do enemy Hornets keep chasing you all around the map & chasing only you.? Is your ex using playing with Hornet mostly.? Common dude, Hornet OD isn't that much OP like some of you guys are trying to prove 

Don't be obtuse.

If there's absolutely no counter to an effect - it's OP.  No OD you can activate and nothing you equip can prevent it from one-shotting you if it's equipped with high-damage turret.

The counter to Hunter is Dictator and distance.

The counter to Mammoth is distance - it's kill-zone is shortest of all ODs.

The counter to Viking is Titan dome mostly, and time - it's slowest generating OD with short duration.

The counter to wasp is Titan or (in a trend...)  distance. It can't throw the bomb.

The counter to Titan is... LOTS.  Hunter or Hornet or Wasp or another Titan

[Maf 32,300]

1 hour ago, featwasath said:

If an enemy has 50% protection against your turret & equip DA, you'll end-up making only 1/4 od the output damage of your turret. That isn't fair. 

Not really. It will be only 50%.

Right now if I activate OD, I'm able to one-shot a Viking that's using DA and also has 50% protection (i.e. deal the full 3000 damage of a DD shot). If my nerf gets implemented, I will only deal 1500 damage because only the module will block my damage, therefore requiring two shots to kill.

Now, if the tank has spawn protection AND is inside a Titan's dome, AND has DA AND a module then I will deal around 2% of the normal damage (because the dome gives 90% protection), which is 50 times less effective than the current OD. But such a combination is rare and brief, so I don't think it would hinder Hornet OD's performance more than it deserves.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

59 minutes ago, featwasath said:

Some ODs are defensive & some are attacking. You need to understand the difference. Hornet OD is attacking type, like Viking & Wasp ODs. Why are you so against Hornet OD.? Do enemy Hornets keep chasing you all around the map & chasing only you.? Is your ex using playing with Hornet mostly.? Common dude, Hornet OD isn't that much OP like some of you guys are trying to prove 

How do you not know that hornet can be used on long range turrets?

And how do you not know that at least 75% of hornets are long rangers and most of those use railgun?

 

Unlike hornet OD. Wasp bomb and Viking OD both have disadvantages. Wasp has to get in close while Viking has to stay exposed for 7 seconds to maximize its use.

 

Hornet can be used at any range and doesn't need to be exposed for long periods of time to maximize its use.

[featwasath 267]

18 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Don't be obtuse.

If there's absolutely no counter to an effect - it's OP.  No OD you can activate and nothing you equip can prevent it from one-shotting you if it's equipped with high-damage turret.

The counter to Hunter is Dictator and distance.

The counter to Mammoth is distance - it's kill-zone is shortest of all ODs.

The counter to Viking is Titan dome mostly, and time - it's slowest generating OD with short duration.

The counter to wasp is Titan or (in a trend...)  distance. It can't throw the bomb.

The counter to Titan is... LOTS.  Hunter or Hornet or Wasp or another Titan

Since you're using things like 'distance' as counter, I would like to suggest few counters to Hornet OD.

1) Take cover. This is not hard considering how many walls, buildings, ground layers, bridges & other obstacles are in any map. It's always a wise decision not to open yourself too much to enemies, even if your enemy team has no Hornets 

2) Run away from Hornet if it's using a short-range turret. Not super hard to escape from it unless you were very close to it initially 

3) Kill it. Very easy, given that Hornet have the least number of HP in any hull, except for Wasp

 

17 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

How do you not know that hornet can be used on long range turrets?

And how do you not know that at least 75% of hornets are long rangers and most of those use railgun?

Unlike hornet OD. Wasp bomb and Viking OD both have disadvantages. Wasp has to get in close while Viking has to stay exposed for 7 seconds to maximize its use.

Hornet can be used at any range and doesn't need to be exposed for long periods of time to maximize its use.

 

I know