Complaint Book

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

MM will make the game better? Only an ***** would think that a system where you cannot choose what map and who to play against or with is better! But I guess when you are raised in a society where the norm is that others will do the choosing for you, then MM would look good!

What a putz! Yes, take a way our choices like you take away the things that we already paid for (nerfing of turrets and hulls and repair supply, etc). There always will be those people who think it is good while some of us, the free thinking players, will abandon the game for good.  

Meanwhile, the site was going up and down after restart and no word from the "developers"! Let me guess it was either a DoS attack or the "brilliant developers" messed up...again! Care to take a guess which one?

Am I too sarcastic?  Yes?  Well good!

 

+10000 with this. If I can't choose my map, then it's match garbage system for me.

[HappyPotter 3]

This topic was discussed 100 times already. Yes, I'm talking about mults and the useless game moderation Tanki doesn't seem to care about. On top of this, every time a topic like this is started it is either removed or considered closed discussion. Why? Tanki had more than 100k players online 2-3 years ago, now can't even reach 40k on peak time, which is European afternoon. This should tell something. I personally voted obvious mults (0.09 D/L) multiple battles (mainly long 60+ minutes ones), nothing happened. Not even when it was openly discussed in the chat and the opponent team was laughing. Are (some) mods hand in hand with cheaters? What's really going on? Is it that hard to come up with a system against multing? Why is it better to disappoint fair players and make them leave the game instead of keeping Tanki a fair game? What's the logic behind all this? Is it that hard to motivate and select some competent game mods? Give them monthly crystals, whatever, just make them do their jobs. If you don't have enough, test some players and hire more. Heck, I would do it too. Kick the ones who are useless or corrupt out. It's not rocket science. Many of us love this game, many of us have been playing it for years. All this cheating nonsense got to the point where us fair players are thinking about leaving the game. You guys aren't the only game on the market, so you should do better if you want to keep players. There is literally no point in spending money on this game anymore like this. I'm buying a kit, join a battle, one or two mults are sent in my team and ...what was the point in spending my money on Tanki then? Look at  Agario. When they saw that teaming ruined the game, they immediately corrected it and eliminated the possibility of teaming in FreeForAll games. Tanki had years to come up with a reliable solution, yet still nothing. There are solutions, so why not implement them? Is it more important to keep the cheaters than the fair players who are the majority (well, not for long if it goes like this)? If the point is to drive people away from the game, you guys are on the right track for that. 

[CabbageRoll 3,018]

yes they do their job...! 10% of it they do!

[HappyPotter 3]

yes they do their job...! 10% of it they do!

10% ? That's nothing. That means 90% don't, so...

[RevengeAttacker 217]

10% ? That's nothing. That means 90% don't, so...

Well I saw a guy report me and I was checked, no problem.

(Saw you on polygon CP, you were on [GC] with M2 rico. I kept killing you with dat isida m2, we won by 1 point)

[Ninja 10,468]

 

You can find a public list of players who have been punished my the battle moderator team. There are hundreds blocked every week and there is a limit to how much more they can handle, they have lives and families too.

 

Take a look: http://ru.tankiforum.com/topic/126829/

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Battle mods receive thousands of /vote complaints and attend as much as they can. The best thing you can do is record and report the violators yourself here: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showforum=158

 

Topic Merged.

[HappyPotter 3]

You can find a public list of players who have been punished my the battle moderator team. There are hundreds blocked every week and there is a limit to how much more they can handle, they have lives and families too.

 

Take a look: http://ru.tankiforum.com/topic/126829/

---

 

Battle mods receive thousands of /vote complaints and attend as much as they can. The best thing you can do is record and report the violators yourself here: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showforum=158

 

Topic Merged.

Well, then obviously this system is not good. If they are overwhelmed then it's not enough. There can be a voting system given to players, for example which can kick out automatically a player. Yes, it has a downside too, but the good side is way more effective. This could be one solution. The other one, a system which would randomly send players on a map (with the possibility of a friend "platoon" in your team, just how it is in World Of Tanks. This way mults can be eliminated almost completely. They can still keep a part of the game which is like the way it is now. I can tell you for a fact that after 3-4 years of playing I know there are player teams favourized  by some moderators. I won't say names because I don't want to start a crap storm. What I said is my personal opinion and I know a lot of players who left the game because of the way it is right now. If this is what you guys want, so be it. 

Well I saw a guy report me and I was checked, no problem.

(Saw you on polygon CP, you were on [GC] with M2 rico. I kept killing you with dat isida m2, we won by 1 point)

That was a cool battle, well done.

[wolverine848 13,097]

The other one, a system which would randomly send players on a map (with the possibility of a friend "platoon" in your team, just how it is in World Of Tanks.

A mini-clan versus a team of random players (who likely can't even communicate) would be a huge miss-match.

 

Allowing "friend platoons" in match-making will ruin the game for casual players.

[Hancho 3,902]

After the MM you won't be able to choose your own battle, it will ruin the game, simple. 

[HappyPotter 3]

A mini-clan versus a team of random players (who likely can't even communicate) would be a huge miss-match.

 

Allowing "friend platoons" in match-making will ruin the game for casual players.

It works brilliantly in other games, so why should tanki be an exception? The platoon thing would work for both teams, so there is absolutely no disadvantage. 

[Maf 32,314]

 Is it that hard to motivate and select some competent game mods? Give them monthly crystals, whatever, just make them do their jobs. If you don't have enough, test some players and hire more. Heck, I would do it too. Kick the ones who are useless or corrupt out. It's not rocket science.

Actually it's a lot harder than you might think. Battle moderators have some of the most strict criteria in order to be selected, since obviously only the most responsible and trustworthy players should be given the ability to completely block others from the game. With very few new players coming into the game it's becoming harder and harder to find fresh people who are still interested in the game enough to want to dedicate their time to help.

 

We would rather have a few more hackers and mults in battles, than a bunch of players who got unfairly banned by incompetent moderators who would only get in because the requirements got less strict.

[Ninja 10,468]

Well, then obviously this system is not good. If they are overwhelmed then it's not enough. There can be a voting system given to players, for example which can kick out automatically a player. Yes, it has a downside too, but the good side is way more effective. This could be one solution. 

This has been suggested many times by players, developers are adamant that they never implement it due to the amount of abuse that will happen. A clan would be able to take over a map, kick the opposing team the take all the crystals. Even if there are limits and quotas for votes it will ultimately be abused.

 

Such a system works in some games, but I doubt it would work well with the current player base.

 

The other one, a system which would randomly send players on a map (with the possibility of a friend "platoon" in your team, just how it is in World Of Tanks. This way mults can be eliminated almost completely. They can still keep a part of the game which is like the way it is now. I can tell you for a fact that after 3-4 years of playing I know there are player teams favourized  by some moderators. I won't say names because I don't want to start a crap storm. What I said is my personal opinion and I know a lot of players who left the game because of the way it is right now. If this is what you guys want, so be it. 

This update is coming this year. A matchmaking system with platoons, groups, squads whatever you want to call it. It has already been tested. There will be no opportunity for mults once it is released.

[Benefactor 6,888]

 

Battle mods receive thousands of /vote complaints and attend as much as they can. The best thing you can do is record and report the violators yourself here: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showforum=158

 

 

I would like to help. But I would be pro-active. I would actually search/peek in battles for active violations instead of just sitting back and waiting for votes to come in. I know what it's like to try and vote a real hacker off the battle, not all of us have recording equipment, and it becomes downright frustrating for those who play by the rules. I handed in an application before, but was not accepted on the fact that I play on a Mac. Now I have a Windows-based laptop, I re-sent my application over a month ago, but this time no response.

[wolverine848 13,097]

It works brilliantly in other games, so why should tanki be an exception? The platoon thing would work for both teams, so there is absolutely no disadvantage. 

You missed my point.

 

A lot of players are 'casual players' and don't join clans, or don't have large "friend groups".

They will click play and get put into a battle with a bunch of other random players.

Their opponent might be comprised of a few random players + a "battle group".

Guess which team will win that battle - by a large margin...

 

Tanki-X uses this and the side that has a battle-group totally dominates the side that does not.  So no - it does not always work "brilliantly".

Will only work properly if battle-groups offset each other.

 

The casual fans will leave the game if this becomes a significant driver of results.

[HappyPotter 3]

Actually it's a lot harder than you might think. Battle moderators have some of the most strict criteria in order to be selected, since obviously only the most responsible and trustworthy players should be given the ability to completely block others from the game. With very few new players coming into the game it's becoming harder and harder to find fresh people who are still interested in the game enough to want to dedicate their time to help.

 

We would rather have a few more hackers and mults in battles, than a bunch of players who got unfairly banned by incompetent moderators who would only get in because the requirements got less strict.

I'm sorry, but I'm not eating this up. I've been here long enough  to see what's going on sometimes. If you want names, I can start giving names, Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming all the game mods. I know some are cool and fair.Some are abusive and simply incompetent. I can give you an example from personal experience. I was playing on Farm 4 vs 4. My team, well two players from my team sent a mult in the other team. I know this because they were talking about it in the team chat. I told them this is not fair and asked the red team (we were blue) to vote the player. After 30 - 01 score finally the moderator came and while I tried to explain to him and translate the chat (those two players were talking in Hungarian, and I speak Hungarian, so I could understand them), and the moderator kicked me from the battle and banned me for sabotage. How do you explain this if those moderators are so well trained and trustworthy? 

[HappyPotter 3]

You missed my point.

 

A lot of players are 'casual players' and don't join clans, or don't have large "friend groups".

They will click play and get put into a battle with a bunch of other random players.

Their opponent might be comprised of a few random players + a "battle group".

Guess which team will win that battle - by a large margin...

 

Tanki-X uses this and the side that has a battle-group totally dominates the side that does not.  So no - it does not always work "brilliantly".

Will only work properly if battle-groups offset each other.

 

The casual fans will leave the game if this becomes a significant driver of results.

What I was saying is that 3-4 people can be friends group in both teams + regular players. Don't try to convince me of something I know for sure is working. Again, if it works in other games it must work here too. It just needs a little work. I didn't see a platoon of a whole team ever in World Of Tanks, for example. Only 3-4 players and that's it. This can be reduced to 2 in 4 vs 4 battles. It's simply total incompetence to not be able to implement a system which could prevent sabotage. I won't change my opinion. Casual fans are leaving now anyway, because for example on Polygon you already know which team will win only by seeing the names. Numbers speak for themselves. As I said, I remember not so long ago there were 100,000+ players online at the same time. Now not even half of it. If this doesn't show that something is wrong, then let's just wait 2-3 years and bye bye Tanki. People are not stupid, they see what's going on.

[wolverine848 13,097]

What I was saying is that 3-4 people can be friends group in both teams + regular players. Don't try to convince me of something I know for sure is working. Again, if it works in other games it must work here too. It just needs a little work. I didn't see a platoon of a whole team ever in World Of Tanks, for example. Only 3-4 players and that's it. This can be reduced to 2 in 4 vs 4 battles. It's simply total incompetence to not be able to implement a system which could prevent sabotage. I won't change my opinion. Casual fans are leaving now anyway, because for example on Polygon you already know which team will win only by seeing the names. Numbers speak for themselves. As I said, I remember not so long ago there were 100,000+ players online at the same time. Now not even half of it. If this doesn't show that something is wrong, then let's just wait 2-3 years and bye bye Tanki. People are not stupid, they see what's going on.

How can you be so sure?

 

Never mind...

[Maf 32,314]

I'm sorry, but I'm not eating this up. I've been here long enough  to see what's going on sometimes. If you want names, I can start giving names, Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming all the game mods. I know some are cool and fair.Some are abusive and simply incompetent. I can give you an example from personal experience. I was playing on Farm 4 vs 4. My team, well two players from my team sent a mult in the other team. I know this because they were talking about it in the team chat. I told them this is not fair and asked the red team (we were blue) to vote the player. After 30 - 01 score finally the moderator came and while I tried to explain to him and translate the chat (those two players were talking in Hungarian, and I speak Hungarian, so I could understand them), and the moderator kicked me from the battle and banned me for sabotage. How do you explain this if those moderators are so well trained and trustworthy? 

Alright, I can't really argue with that. Seems like a sensible complaint.

 

I admit that the violation reporting system is far from perfect, and neither are battle mods. But you gotta understand that that Tanki has a very small management team compared to the size and popularity of their game, so it's extremely difficult for them to keep everything running smoothly. I'm pretty sure they don't have enough funds to actually employ people full-time in order to process violation reports, while improving the /vote system itself currently has lower priority than other updates (such as mobile version and HTML5), so unfortunately that will have to wait.

 

But I'm telling you - simply recruiting more battle mods is not the right solution. You said it yourself - even now some battle mods sometimes don't answer process reports properly and make mistakes. Imagine what would happen if the administration lowered requirements and started recruiting a bunch of untrustworthy players, some of whom would inevitably abuse the powers and ban whoever they want?

[Hancho 3,902]

Why can't tanki create a voting system whereas a team would have to get at least 7-8 votes in total in order for the mult/hacker to get kicked out the battle.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Why can't tanki create a voting system whereas a team would have to get at least 7-8 votes in total in order for the mult/hacker to get kicked out the battle.

Answer

[Hancho 3,902]

Answer

Fair enough. 

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Fair enough. 

In TF2, the example he brings up, team kick works OK. Not perfect, but it's OK. In Tanki the problem is that if you are kicked from the battle, you lose crystals, and in custom battles where battle funds can reach tens of thousands, being kicked after spending several hours playing such battles is a huge loss. In TF2, you don't actually lose anything from getting kicked in casual matches besides some worthless EXP. And in TF2, there are plenty of times when innocent players are kicked. Again, that isn't a problem for that game, but a huge problem in Tanki. Sadly we will never see team kick in standard battles.

 

However, this has use in PRO battles. In parkour battles there is no fund or EXP, so you don't lose anything from a kick. Furthermore, when private battles have their funds reduced with the release of MM, kick will work fine there too. So I hope the devs consider a kick system for at least those two modes. It would be really useful to kick people who kill in parkour and the like.

[HappyPotter 3]

Alright, I can't really argue with that. Seems like a sensible complaint.

 

I admit that the violation reporting system is far from perfect, and neither are battle mods. But you gotta understand that that Tanki has a very small management team compared to the size and popularity of their game, so it's extremely difficult for them to keep everything running smoothly. I'm pretty sure they don't have enough funds to actually employ people full-time in order to process violation reports, while improving the /vote system itself currently has lower priority than other updates (such as mobile version and HTML5), so unfortunately that will have to wait.

 

But I'm telling you - simply recruiting more battle mods is not the right solution. You said it yourself - even now some battle mods sometimes don't answer process reports properly and make mistakes. Imagine what would happen if the administration lowered requirements and started recruiting a bunch of untrustworthy players, some of whom would inevitably abuse the powers and ban whoever they want?

You don't have to pay those moderators money. You can give them in game gifts (crystals, containers, gold boxes, special paints....etc.) on a monthly basis. This needs two teams: one smaller team which would control and verify complaints, meaning they would verify the complaints and actions of the mods. Mods who don't do their jobs properly can be fired easily this way. The second team the actual moderators. The rules are silly either. they have to spend time recording players, which is useless in most of the cases. Sometimes a simple screenshot would be enough. For example, a player with 0.0X D/L in a battle is an obvious mult. There is no need to spend time recording it, a simple screenshot with the player's time in game near his/her D/L would clearly justify what's going on. This would save up time. On actual sabotage, when a player is working against its own team (standing in front of his team mates, pushing them off etc. ) doesn't need a 3 minutes video either. 1 minute would be more than enough. 3 minutes video would be required only if a player does not play at all. This way you can reduce response time considerably. 

[Maf 32,314]

You don't have to pay those moderators money. You can give them in game gifts (crystals, containers, gold boxes, special paints....etc.) on a monthly basis. 

They already get that. It's an additional bonus for added motivation, but it should never be a player's main motivation for becoming a battle mod (or any other kind of helper).

 

 

Sometimes a simple screenshot would be enough. For example, a player with 0.0X D/L in a battle is an obvious mult.

And this is exactly why battle mods go through months of training before being allowed to make decisions on their own. It's not as simple as that. Sometimes a player just had a series of bad luck and got spawn-killed. Sometimes the player only has low grade equipment and simply can't play better to raise their D/L. There's also Isidas, who usually have lower D/L anyway. In fact, some player purposefully play with Isida and don't get any kills (as a challenge). Sure, their D/L may be literally zero, but they are still a great healer and a very useful player in the team.

 

 

On actual sabotage, when a player is working against its own team (standing in front of his team mates, pushing them off etc. ) doesn't need a 3 minutes video either. 1 minute would be more than enough.

I somewhat agree, yes - some of the requirements for proof seem way too demanding at the moment. But still, moderators need solid proof in order to ban, because otherwise they risk punishing an innocent player. Also, having proof is good for when players complain about their bad, so the admin can just check the video to see if the punishment was deserved.

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

The way you eliminate cheating and multing tanki will never do because they need money.

 

You kick them from the game permanently.

 

And to do that you can't allow alts because now all they do is get one day ban, play their alt and laugh at tanki that one day, then go right back to cheating.

 

Block their MAC address forever.

 

Of course they can still get a new NIC or new computer but at least put them through some trouble.

 

I don't know, I am just rambling but there has to be a better way.

1 day bans are a joke, it should be at least 3 days, because I'm pretty sure many mults also do chain missions, so this will break their chains.