Let's Discuss Hopper!

[wolverine848 13,097]

4 hours ago, cool12345 said:

There Is A Solution To The Imbalance Of The Game Due To Hoppers.   Hoppers were introduced to make money for Tankionline which I understand.   However, it has obviously made the game very frustrating for the rest of us.   The Solution is Hoppers get their own separate game.   That way it is a fair fight and the rest of us go back to the old Tankionline which was fair and fun!  

Would never happen.

[Alklines 1,751]

4 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

Even without those two drones it is still an overpowered hull. It's mainly the relatively high speed and strafing that makes Hopper annoying and disturbing to fight against, not to forget the detonation jump and corresponding status effects. I often use the hull with Magnum AGLM and Booster, occasionally with Gauss EMS without drone or Shaft APS. Nerfing Hopper is being waited for since it's very release, but finding a suitable and realistic approach for doing that is rather hard. 

It has already been slightly nerfed, in it's overdrive. But I see your point, overall.

[alkyng 3,080]

17 hours ago, Alklines said:

Hopper itself isn't that OP, but when it's paired with Crisis

If Hopper is OP with Defender or Crisis that doesn't ever mean it's balanced without them

Why Hopper is OP with Crisis? Do you know if the Crisis was with Hornet it wont stand a second and wont be able to control the hull with the incredible speed and will easily collided with any tank or flipped by any mistake.   But with Hopper it can hover all the map easily and can cross over the tanks

Why Hopper is OP with Defender? Due to the fact that Hopper can cross over the tanks so it with its high armor (Defender drone) you can't kill it nor you can stop it by blocking the road because it can cross over you.  But if it was Hornet, basically you can close the road for it

[DaringDeer 656]

With the way the game is now (all the status effects, bigger teams, speed that dead tanks respawn, proliferation of miners, giant maps with easily protectable flags, and <7 min games, etc.) the only hull effective in some situations is hopper.  I play in groups of 4 almost all the time and we always are playing on the biggest maps.  How many successful non-hopper flag pulls do you see in Lost Temple or Seige or Berlin (and to some extent Massacre and Highways)?

There are too many turrets/status effects/mines to do some things without Hopper and Crisis.  You have to be quick in and quick out and be willing to die repeatedly for the 1 or 2 moments of success per game.

[Akame 4,578]

3 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

  But if it was Hornet, basically you can close the road for it

Hate to break it to you, with the game currently, it's possible for regular tracked tanks to phase pass some players at times, and vice verca as much chance as a hover has to phase thru a tracked, a tracked can also essentially do similar depending on the server.

 

Aside that, interesting convo.

Crisis Hopper an issue? Reduce the 'max speed' value from 70% bonus to around 30-40% bonus or so, to test out, I had already suggested this. Dual engine movement needed to counter strafing 'OP-ness', which I have discussed somewhere.

Hoppers OD an issue? Remove Burn, delay OD (animation insertion will be needed), reduce hop height.

Defender is a casual issue with any combo, not just hopper, so everyone knows about that one.

 

Combo's may be op, but each has a counter, some of which not many may have.

But if you face solo hoppers, you still have a more than good fighting chance if you can get them focused. A group of hoppers can be an issue.

But I have seen some maps where groups of hoppers are unable to cap a single and the game ends up as a 0-0 tie, i.e scope, berlin, kolhoz due to player density and tenacity of defending.

[wolverine848 13,097]

18 hours ago, Akame said:

But I have seen some maps where groups of hoppers are unable to cap a single and the game ends up as a 0-0 tie, i.e scope, berlin, kolhoz due to player density and tenacity of defending.

Those maps are too big for 7-min battles.  And the number of players is too much as well.  Hard for ANY tank to cap on them unless one team is just overpowering another and dominating.  In this case, it's a map-issue and not hull issue.

[Akame 4,578]

2 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Those maps are too big for 7-min battles.  And the number of players is too much as well.  Hard for ANY tank to cap on them unless one team is just overpowering another and dominating.  In this case, it's a map-issue and not hull issue.

From experience, either wasps or hopper try attacking, whilst the rest just sit back and flank. Maybe we need to just stick to 8v8 maps? idk, but I would prefer having a balanced stalemate that's almost impossible to attack than a game that ends 5-0.

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, Akame said:

From experience, either wasps or hopper try attacking, whilst the rest just sit back and flank. Maybe we need to just stick to 8v8 maps? idk, but I would prefer having a balanced stalemate that's almost impossible to attack than a game that ends 5-0.

I too dislike 5-0 games.  I like soe of the big maps - especially Skylark.  But 7 min is too short.  Those maps need 10-min battles.

[cool12345 123]

Just played two games ruined by Hoppers.   Tankionline has now become "Pay To Cheat".  It really makes the game boring and predictable.  Obviously if you paid $200 U.S. for a Hopper the game will be short  -  Hop, Score repeat until game ends.  (Usually under 2 minutes)   The rest of us Tanks just watch.   It's sad.    Tankionline used to be so good.

[cool12345 123]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:43 AM, wolverine848 said:

I too dislike 5-0 games.  I like soe of the big maps - especially Skylark.  But 7 min is too short.  Those maps need 10-min battles.

I agree.  The battles should be 10 minutes which gives time for strategy and maybe for the losing team to pull up a win.

Also there is no need for a 5 goal limit to be placed on a game.  These Hoppers can end the game in under 3 minutes with "Hop score" "Hop score"  GAME!

(While the rest of us Non-Flying Tanks can just sit and watch!  

[cool12345 123]

*I Learned To Love The Flying Monkeys*!  -  Tankionline is so peaceful now.   The Flying Monkeys do battle and all I have to do is watch.   Don't have to worry about winning the game.   No pressure on me now.   Thanking All You Flying Monkeys!      

[DARAKIS 10]

I agree with the comments saying Hopper being overpowered. Hopper is basically overpowered in these game modes, Assault, Capture the Flag & Rugby. The reason it is over powered is because of it overdrive. Excluding the effects the Hopper can jump over & onto tall obstacles & with speed buffs it can jump across entire maps, how this effects ASL, CTF & RGB is the can be Hoppers with the same build in a group which can change the outcome in the battle.

 

Solutions:

1.Have the Hopper nerfed.

2. Have the flag/ball effect the Hopper's overdrive (where Hopper would not be able to jump as high.)

[cool12345 123]

Hoppers - (also known as Flying Monkeys)  Whether you are on my team or the enemy team I will fight you.  You people are not team players.  You ruin the fun that Tankionline used to be.  I enjoy messing with Flying Monkeys on either team.  Makes me feel very Happy!   

[cosmic666 1,055]

All this negativity about the flying hack and what has been done about it, NOTHING.

Have to say though, most of the mods are on board with it because they use it in most battles they go into.

 

[LambSauce 1,884]

13 hours ago, cosmic666 said:

Have to say though, most of the mods are on board with it because they use it in most battles they go into.

*cough* Maf *cough*

[cosmic666 1,055]

Just been in a battle were the legal hack dominated. 2 of them with crisis drone FLYING all over the map, what a joke. As always mega hard to get a bead on them with there laggy style movements.

Anyone who says its had a nerf and is all nicely balanced is posting trash.

@Maf worst offender for endorsing this OP gimmick, which has of course been nerfed into the ground and is now a easy kill. What a joke.

 

[LambSauce 1,884]

Just now, cosmic666 said:

@Maf worst offender for endorsing this OP gimmick, which has of course been nerfed into the ground and is now a easy kill. What a joke.

I mean, I'm not surprised - he's been using the Hopper Crisis combo for months.

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 5/8/2021 at 5:10 PM, cosmic666 said:

All this negativity about the flying hack and what has been done about it, NOTHING.

Have to say though, most of the mods are on board with it because they use it in most battles they go into.

 

Took years for TO to "fix" hornet OD.   And look at what they did... added status effects to the game.   

Be careful what you ask for.  Unbelievably, they can make it worse.

[cosmic666 1,055]

4 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Unbelievably, they can make it worse.

True enough.

But who cares anymore, the game is dead and i only do the very easiest of missions and then call it a day. Let the devs bleed the buyers dry i say, it's no more than they deserve. 

[Maf 32,300]

1 hour ago, cosmic666 said:

Anyone who says its had a nerf and is all nicely balanced is posting trash.

@Maf worst offender for endorsing this OP gimmick, which has of course been nerfed into the ground and is now a easy kill. What a joke.

 

I outlined my opinion in the I&S topic quite nicely, and you conveniently chose to ignore it and continue your baseless accusations. This is the direct quote:

12 hours ago, Maf said:

It would be absurd to deny Hopper's insane advantage in capture modes, especially, like you said — paired with crisis and certain augments. Why devs didn't foresee it being a problem before adding it, I don't know. But I do know that they agree about it being a problem and are working towards fixing it. Hopper already got some significant nerfs in the past 3 or 4 balance updates, and another big one is planned to specifically counter Hopper's "grab and fly" advantage.

Every part of this sentence is factual, unbiased truth. I cannot force you to believe me and you probably won't, but that's what it is. Now I would appreciate if you stopped spreading any further misinformation.

1 hour ago, LambSauce said:

I mean, I'm not surprised - he's been using the Hopper Crisis combo for months.

Light Hopper + PT Rico + Crisis is an insanely fun combo and takes a lot of skill to use effectively. Dare I say that a game mode (CTF or RGB) where everyone had this combo fully upgraded with infinite supplies would have a far higher skill cap than XP/BP ever did. The problem is obviously that it has a massive advantage over all other combos when it comes to mobility, to a point where a lot of the battles are boring due to how easy it is to score and win.

That being said, there are counters to this combo, and I regularly end up facing skilled and powerful enemies, who manage to put up a strong fight and often even defeat me. Those are the games I enjoy, even if I lose. Any long range AP/EMP turret on just a slightly open map is all it takes to make my life hell. Pair that with stun immunity Viking/Hunter, and there's not much I can do.

[LambSauce 1,884]

@Maf Care to name any F2P counters to the Hopper Crisis combo?

[wolverine848 13,097]

11 minutes ago, Maf said:

I outlined my opinion in the I&S topic quite nicely, and you conveniently chose to ignore it and continue your baseless accusations. This is the direct quote:

Every part of this sentence is factual, unbiased truth. I cannot force you to believe me and you probably won't, but that's what it is. Now I would appreciate if you stopped spreading any further misinformation.

Light Hopper + PT Rico + Crisis is an insanely fun combo and takes a lot of skill to use effectively. Dare I say that a game mode (CTF or RGB) where everyone had this combo fully upgraded with infinite supplies would have a far higher skill cap than XP/BP ever did. The problem is obviously that it has a massive advantage over all other combos when it comes to mobility, to a point where a lot of the battles are boring due to how easy it is to score and win.

That being said, there are counters to this combo, and I regularly end up facing skilled and powerful enemies, who manage to put up a strong fight and often even defeat me. Those are the games I enjoy, even if I lose. Any long range AP/EMP turret on just a slightly open map is all it takes to make my life hell. Pair that with stun immunity Viking/Hunter, and there's not much I can do.

What specifically were the "significant nerfs" hopper received?

If you include the slight nerfs to OD charge, in no way would I classify those as "significant".  Only crusader and mammoth have faster charge rates.

[Maf 32,300]

Just now, wolverine848 said:

What specifically were the "significant nerfs" hopper received?

• 10% slower idle OD charge rate
• Zero OD retention (you use it and die instantly — it's wasted)
• 10 seconds delay on OD charge bonus from battle score (longest of all hulls, very significant)
• Stun duration nerf down to 1 second (biggest nerf of all)

I think there's something else I missed, but even just those four together made Hopper a lot less effective in many situations. And in the recent Russian Q&A, Opex said that he plans to make another change to counter Hopper's ability to "grab and fly". His initial suggestion (subject to change) is to make it impossible for enemies to use overdrives while inside a Titan's dome.

8 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

@Maf Care to name any F2P counters to the Hopper Crisis combo?

Any long range turret (preferably hitscan) paired with Viking. So ideally Shaft or Railgun, but Striker (Hunter augment), Gauss, Smoky, Thunder, Hammer (Slugger) can also work. Not as effective as the P2W stuff, but still works with a bit of skill.

[wolverine848 13,097]

17 minutes ago, Maf said:

• 10% slower idle OD charge rate
• Zero OD retention (you use it and die instantly — it's wasted)
• 10 seconds delay on OD charge bonus from battle score (longest of all hulls, very significant)
• Stun duration nerf down to 1 second (biggest nerf of all)

The slower idle still leaves it as 3rd fastest.

Zero retention is not as impactful as it suggests - since the OD effects are instantaneous

charge bonus delay was put into effect so it won't basically boost a complete charge from capping.  Since it's effects are instantaneous, it's not nearly as impactful as say.. doing that to rail or viking or mammoth

Stun duration nerf - what was it before?

 

The thing about Titan domes - is that wrt to all ODs?  or just Hopper.  And is that the big nerf to hopper?  requires a Titan?

[alkyng 3,080]

I think Retention period and Stun duration and 10 seconds delay all together are considered as a big nerf and yes have affected Hopper and I noticed the change.

But be honest, this was supposed to happen from the first release, it was just insane before that. I think now the highest retention period is for Hornet, which is way too long.

Maf, Hopper retention period isn't Zero literally. But it's just a too fast, many times I get killed immediately and I restore about 35%, and some times 60%+. Viking is the same in this.

The stun duration was 3s now it's 1s. Honestly this is a noticeable and a significant nerf. But still can disqualify Hunter/Aers/Crus ODs, and can do many other things.

BTW, too long, the main problem of Hopper is It's still the best hull in capturing. If anyone want to say Hopper is balanced, must come with the other hull who see is equal to Hopper in capturing. I think we all agree that the most appropriate hulls for capturing are the light hulls, not Viking or any other hull can capture more than any of the light hulls. Ok, as our lovely Yelloghetto said one day, that he admit Hopper is stronger than Hornet and Wasp, not because it's OP but because Wasp/Hornet are UP. A good point honestly. But he forgot one thing, if we assumed that Wasp/Hornet are weaker than Hopper, so which hull is better for capturing? Except if he want to jump to the mid tier.