category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

You have both Hunter and Hornet M2, with a few dozen hours on both. How can you not notice a significant speed difference between the two?

[samlauncher 106]

Hornet does need a speed increase and so does mammoth, to closer match wasp and titan, unlike medium hulls where the different speed is more fairly justified

Edited May 27, 2018 by samlauncher

[Potdindy 866]

He might be referring to the fact that an isida/fire on a viking can keep up with a light hull easily long enough to kill it. I was chasing a friendly viking iin order to use overdrive on it. I was using hornet but it took a long drive to catch up to the viking. I would actually suggest very slightly lowering medium hulls speed so that they cannot play the "Best of both worlds" role that they tend to now. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Potdindy

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Hornet M1 and M2 need the same health as Wasp M1 and M2 or even more because Hornet is slower and longer (but it is almost as low as Viking so it can hide behind anything). Maybe the reason why Wasp M1 and M2 have more health is the flipping but skilled Wasp does not flip as often (WOW!) as noob Hornet. I hope that all hulls will be rebalanced so the Wasp and Hornet will have the same health at every modification.

[CrimsonComet 15]

When it comes to speed, smaller increments make a much bigger difference. This is why Nitro supplies only give 40% extra speed, while DA and DD give 100% extra armour and damage. So the speed difference between Hornet and Viking may seem small, but in battles it makes a massive difference and is often better than having the extra 50% armour.

Would the Tanki team be willing to share what the most common Hulls are? I'd be willing to bet that Viking and Hunter take a good portion of it. Also we can't claim that something is "better" without stats to back up the claim. In higher rank games where people actually know which Hulls are "good/effective", Hunter and Viking will have a higher use percentage. And a more likely reason that the nitro is only a 40% speed boost is probably because the base speed values are so high that doubling that value would make hulls basically lightning bolts zipping around and would completely break the game because maps aren't big enough. Most maps are medium sized. Also, I never suggested that Hornet should have the same HP as a medium hull, I only suggested that it should have comparable HP. A difference of 50% is by no means "comparable". The game isn't built around numbers, it's built around thresholds. How many hits from a specific turret can Hornet take? Also about the example of Double Damage, that's actually one huge factor that breaks Hornet's balance. Because some Turrets can outright one shot it and have ridiculous levels of DPM just because of Double Damage.

 

 

You have both Hunter and Hornet M2, with a few dozen hours on both. How can you not notice a significant speed difference between the two?

The speed difference frankly isn't worth being 1 shot by a Thunder with double damage.

I was just playing hornet/railgun in normal CTF battle highland , I got 24 kills and 2 deaths , in another round i got 23 kills and 4 deaths with hornet , I'd say hornet is quite good actually.

Just because 1 player got good stats on just 2 matches doesn't mean that Hornet is in a balanced state. That's a very poor perspective to discuss balance from.

you forgot size... it's easier to dodge shots with hornet..

That's almost somewhat negated by latency.

Edited May 27, 2018 by CrimsonComet

[CrimsonComet 15]

He might be referring to the fact that an isida/fire on a viking can keep up with a light hull easily long enough to kill it. I was chasing a friendly viking iin order to use overdrive on it. I was using hornet but it took a long drive to catch up to the viking. I would actually suggest very slightly lowering medium hulls speed so that they cannot play the "Best of both worlds" role that they tend to now. 

Exactly, there's very little reason if any to play the Hornet over a Hunter or Viking. Back in the VERY OLD days, Viking was considerably slower and Hunter was useless.

[Maf 32,300]

Would the Tanki team be willing to share what the most common Hulls are? I'd be willing to bet that Viking and Hunter take a good portion of it.

I can tell you from personal experience that Viking seems to be by far the most popular. Followed by Hornet, then probably Dictator, Wasp, Titan, Mammoth and Hunter. But I don't know the actual values.

[CrimsonComet 15]

I can tell you from personal experience that Viking seems to be by far the most popular. Followed by Hornet, then probably Dictator, Wasp, Titan, Mammoth and Hunter. But I don't know the actual values.

And it makes sense right? Viking doesn't really have any significant weakness. It's nothing close to slow and it has a very solid HP pool.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I can tell you from personal experience that Viking seems to be by far the most popular. Followed by Hornet, then probably Dictator, Wasp, Titan, Mammoth and Hunter. But I don't know the actual values.

Overall?  Any split by rank?

 

I suspect the higher ranks have Viking, as many purchased it before the stats were swapped with Hunter.

 

My captain account has used Hunter since it started...

[Potdindy 866]

No matter what hull I use, I always have the most trouble with medium hulls. Lights can be shot and heavies can avoided, but viking especially, but also hunter are tough and quick enough for most maps. I think light hulls are fine as they are, but what could be done, is to weaken (very slightly) medium hulls, so you are sacrificing strength in order to be flexible and balanced

[Maf 32,300]

And it makes sense right? Viking doesn't really have any significant weakness. It's nothing close to slow and it has a very solid HP pool.

I feel like it's a very "average" tank. Light hulls are made for players who are good at manoeuvering, don't mind a low K/D and like to rush the enemy. Heavy hulls are made for campers and people who don't mind being slow in favour of feeling "beefy". Both of those audiences - the rushers and the campers - are not as large compared to the average player, who likes to do a bit of everything. That's why medium hulls are so popular, just like how average "generic fighter" classes are popular in similar MMOs.

 

Why Viking is so much more popular than Hunter, I don't know. With Dictator it's quite obvious - it's large, it's not centered, it's tall, so playing with it requires a more specific kind of style. But Hunter is very similar to Viking, so the only explanation I have is that Viking stayed popular ever since it was the best medium hull before the 2012 Rebalance, and it remained popular due to word of mouth, despite Hunter being equally good.

 

Also, Hunter and Dictator M3 used to unlock at Generalissimo, while Viking unlocked at lieutenant-general, so that's definitely another good reason.

[Potdindy 866]

I feel like it's a very "average" tank. Light hulls are made for players who are good at manoeuvering, don't mind a low K/D and like to rush the enemy. Heavy hulls are made for campers and people who don't mind being slow in favour of feeling "beefy". Both of those audiences - the rushers and the campers - are not as large compared to the average player, who likes to do a bit of everything. That's why medium hulls are so popular, just like how average "generic fighter" classes are popular in similar MMOs.

 

I guess this is what I am talking about...should the generic type of role be the most common or would battles be better with more specialized players. Obviously I think 33%,33%, 33% is good, and the meta is not far off that, but maybe some tweaking could help. It is probably now around 30%, 60%, 10%, Light, medium and heavy. 

[Maf 32,300]

Overall?  Any split by rank?

 

Just high ranks. Haven't played on low ranks for a very long time, so can't compare.

[mhh.2000 888]

Just because 1 player got good stats on just 2 matches doesn't mean that Hornet is in a balanced state. That's a very poor perspective to discuss balance from.

 

Oh please , I almost always get good stats when playing with hornet , these were just 2 examples and I can bring SO MANY more if you want , and it's definitely not a poor perspective because the hull does perform well in battles , you just have to pick the right map and you have to learn how to use it .

plus it's a light hull , you can't have everything , sacrifice hp for speed and vice versa . 

@Maf makes a pretty valid point IMO , medium hulls are made for the average player who wants a bit of everything , I don't think light hulls need a major buff , I think medium hulls need a minor nerf ...

[r_Kirby4 358]

Just add some HP to every hull so no one can be one-shot-killed.

[CrimsonComet 15]

I feel like it's a very "average" tank. Light hulls are made for players who are good at manoeuvering, don't mind a low K/D and like to rush the enemy. Heavy hulls are made for campers and people who don't mind being slow in favour of feeling "beefy". Both of those audiences - the rushers and the campers - are not as large compared to the average player, who likes to do a bit of everything. That's why medium hulls are so popular, just like how average "generic fighter" classes are popular in similar MMOs.

 

Why Viking is so much more popular than Hunter, I don't know. With Dictator it's quite obvious - it's large, it's not centered, it's tall, so playing with it requires a more specific kind of style. But Hunter is very similar to Viking, so the only explanation I have is that Viking stayed popular ever since it was the best medium hull before the 2012 Rebalance, and it remained popular due to word of mouth, despite Hunter being equally good.

 

Also, Hunter and Dictator M3 used to unlock at Generalissimo, while Viking unlocked at lieutenant-general, so that's definitely another good reason.

See you remember 2012 rebalance right? Before the changes, there were 3 hulls that were mostly used and there was a beautiful balance to it. I remember M3 values almost exactly. Hornet, Viking and Mammoth had HPs of 100, 150 and 200 respectively. And if I remember correct, hornet was a 3 shot for M3 Thunder and Viking was on average 5. Right now as it stands Thunders of the same M number, can consistently 2 shot Hornets and that's a problem. Now we can't nerf Thunder, because that breaks the game further. But here's the big deal. Back in the day, the movement values WERE WAY different. M3 Viking had like a movement speed of 7, while M3 Hornet had 10. That's about a 40% difference in Speed while you lose 50% extra HP you could have had. Now that's reasonable, right now Hornet on average is like 15%-25% faster and has 50% less HP. That logically makes no sense, buffing these Heavier hulls in terms of speed broke the balance just in terms of Maps. Because with Hornet you could take key positions that other hulls couldn't. Right now, there really isn't much of a difference.

[SporkZilla 1,775]

It might be worth reviewing the trade off between speed and HP with all of the hulls, but I wouldn't want any big changes

 

I use a medium hull (Hunter) for all of the reasons stated above and sometimes you feel slightly invincible in battles where there's lots of lighter hulls running around (at my rank and lower, I think some people just aren't aware of Hunter's huge M0 > M0/10 HP increase), but the skilled light hull players know how to make the most of their speed (and acceleration) and play hide'n'snipe or ambush me. I probably get killed by Hornet / Rail players more than anything else.

 

(I just prefer the feel / handling and dimensions of Hunter compared to Viking, but haven't been able to compare identical M/MU versions much)

[CrimsonComet 15]

No matter what hull I use, I always have the most trouble with medium hulls. Lights can be shot and heavies can avoided, but viking especially, but also hunter are tough and quick enough for most maps. I think light hulls are fine as they are, but what could be done, is to weaken (very slightly) medium hulls, so you are sacrificing strength in order to be flexible and balanced

Exactly, buffing doesn't get us anywhere, we should be nerfing what's imbalanced. Medium hulls right now are idiotproof. They don't really take any particular skillset to use and they have abnormally good stats.

[CrimsonComet 15]

Oh please , I almost always get good stats when playing with hornet , these were just 2 examples and I can bring SO MANY more if you want , and it's definitely not a poor perspective because the hull does perform well in battles , you just have to pick the right map and you have to learn how to use it .

plus it's a light hull , you can't have everything , sacrifice hp for speed and vice versa . 

@Maf makes a pretty valid point IMO , medium hulls are made for the average player who wants a bit of everything , I don't think light hulls need a major buff , I think medium hulls need a minor nerf ...

A nerf to medium hulls would work as well.

[CrimsonComet 15]

It might be worth reviewing the trade off between speed and HP with all of the hulls, but I wouldn't want any big changes

 

I use a medium hull (Hunter) for all of the reasons stated above and sometimes you feel slightly invincible in battles where there's lots of lighter hulls running around (at my rank and lower, I think some people just aren't aware of Hunter's huge M0 > M0/10 HP increase), but the skilled light hull players know how to make the most of their speed (and acceleration) and play hide'n'snipe or ambush me. I probably get killed by Hornet / Rail players more than anything else.

 

(I just prefer the feel / handling and dimensions of Hunter compared to Viking, but haven't been able to compare identical M/MU versions much)

My problem is that the numbers make very little sense.

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

I use hornet a lot, light hulls just aren't that good. The stability and health increase of medium hulls is far more useful than speed. The only thing light hulls are good for is rushing objectives, but then they just get annihilated by: shafts, thunders, magnums, firebirds, hammers and strikers

 

On the other hand, heavy hulls can't go anywhere before getting torn apart by shafts and railguns so all they can do is sit in their base and camp. (on medium/large maps)

 

Medium hulls are just too powerful in terms of health and speed, being able to easily do the job of heavy and light hulls without any weaknesses.

[Hate 5,582]

 

Topic merged.

[NatchGa 665]

Dictator hitpoint buff

 

Dictator is bragged about in its description how much "armor platings" it has to make up for its slower speed. But in reality, it has the same amount of hp as the rest of the medium hulls. If you take a good look at the hull, you'll notice it overall has more cons than pros. Larger hit-box than the rest of the medium hulls, slower top speed, and slower turning speed. Yes, its weight and power is higher than the rest, but they make a minor difference in actual gameplay. Of course, the one advantage everyone talks about is gold boxes. Yes, dictator is superior when it comes to collecting golds, whoever, just because you have dictator equipped does not mean you are guaranteed the gold. 

This is why I propose a hp buff to make it more of a "missing link" between medium and heavy hulls, making the hull vastly more interesting. 

 

M0: 1500 -> 1750

M1: 2029 -> 2205

M2: 2250 ->  2642

M3: 2647 -> 3088

M3+(M4) 3000 -> 3500

 

You might think that the hp boost would be enough to guarantee an extra shot needed from most turrets in order to take it down, making it basically a heavy hull but faster. This is not the case, if you take striker for example, which takes usually 4 shots to take down a medium hull, regardless of its damage roll per shot. even if an m4 striker does its lowest amount of damage possible (790) it would still do enough damage to take down a medium hull regardless. (790x4 = 3160) now if we look at strikers average damage (790+970/2 = 880) and multiply that by 4 (880x4=3520) it would do 3520 damage, 20 hp above the amount it would take to take down a dictator with my new hp buff proposal. but if you get unlucky roles, and do even just 20 hp below the average damage threshold, than you have to fire a whole extra shot, giving the dictator those precious seconds to either take you down or hide (or use repair if drugs are enabled). Now I am not going to do the math with every single turret, but i'm sure the situation would be similar with most turrets. 

[giant05 207]

The idea is nice I support it! It's slow speed put in in a disadvantage! 

 

 

I hope this happened ^^ lol

Edited June 1, 2018 by Maf

[r_Kirby4 358]

720+970/2 = 1205*

Seems fair, but I thought it's another idea about its hitbox. :P