category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[DageLV 71]

2 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

You've failed to adapt to modern MM. It's like the low ranks for you now. Equip Dictator until you get back on your feet; you have it at Mk7. 

playing once a few months. Last time i played when i didnt need to record was probably 3ish years ago

2 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

You went to the garage more than once. If you equipped your Railgun protection module then you would have a chance to survive, but you didn't and kept complaining of one-shots. As a light hull, all long range turrets will one-shot you with DD on unequal footing. Your Smoky Module is Mk5 going up against Mk8s. That is a huge leap and HPAS will still 2-shot you. Choose better protections to fit the battle. 

if they had to be at long range to do it, it would be fine. Ann i cant have ricochet, magnum, hammer, thunder, railgun, smoky, shaft protection equipped at once and all of them can one-shot light hulls.

2 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Then don't be surprised when you get taken down so easily. 

im not suprised. And i dont think i ever died from driving and turning turret... soo...

2 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Your Wasp is barely upgraded. There is a large increase in parameters from Mk7 to Mk8. You are at a disadvantage compared to other Legends with upgraded equipment. Keeping ypout light hull near Mk7 makes it much easier for Mk8 turrets to take you down faster. 

im not buyer.

2 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

This is an understandable problem. The best way to mitigate this is to use double armour, but you have none. Use Dictator to get supplies in-battle. It's a medium hull so you have more survivability. 

On my small acc i have Viking mk6 and its already damn slow which makes the game even more booring as it already is. And dictator is even slower. I dont remember how many years ago it was when i last equipped mammoth/titan. I think it was when titan was somewhat useful as a pushing tank, but idk.
 

2 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

You hide with your speed...or maybe don't rush headfirst into danger and assess the situation first. You're going to need supplies to play well in Legend battles whether you like it or not. Not using supplies in a Legend battle handicaps your team. Not using repair kits is understandable but at the very least you should be using either DA or DD. 

You were not doing the proper maneuver to hit all of your Hammer pellets. You weren't taking your time to shoot. The Hunter also activated DA while you did not activate DD. So you would be dealing less damage. 

After one shot im dead. Cant rly hide. Im not drugger.
And on the hunters point... Im not a drugger.
 

2 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

You would have survived two shots from that Gauss had you not inflicted self-damage. You could have survived longer if you had DA active. 

Take a look at this.

No. Gauss one-shots wasp. And again, im not a drugger.
Nothing to see on the link.

[Devoid 2,601]

TL/DR: Hornet's Overdrive activity time should be reduced to 7 seconds, and it should no longer ignore the effects of spawn protection and Double Armor.

 

As many Players have brought it to my attention, and I have noticed it while playing Matchmaking myself, the Hornet Overdrive is easily the most powerful Overdrive within the game, hands down. It charges very quickly (I believe it is the third fastest charging Overdrive, behind Wasp and Hunter), and the effects it gives are very strong completely overpowered and broken.

Most people already know what the effects of the Hornet's Overdrive is (ignoring any form of extra protection, location spotting, revealing enemy health bars, etc.). While there are several parts to this Overdrive that need some serious re-balancing, I would like to talk specifically about the duration of this Overdrive, and its protection ignoring.

This Overdrive seems to last FOREVER while in battle (I mean, you can seriously get eliminated by a Player using this Overdrive, spawn again, and get killed at least once more). I would like to propose a change to this duration, from 10 seconds active running time, down to around 6 or 7 seconds. While this isn't a huge leap, it will make a noticeable difference, and will help combat the overwhelming power of this Overdrive.

Secondly, I think this Overdrive's protection ignoring ability should be fixed. I think Players using this Overdrive should be allowed to take out Players sitting within the realms of a Titan's dome, and I think it should still ignore protection modules Players might have equipped, but I think this Overdrive should no longer be able to ignore spawn protection, nor the effects of Double Armor. While this might severely change this Overdrive, it will change it for the better, and ultimately, I think just this change alone would put it closer in power level to the other Overdrives.

With all of this being said, I hope to see one or both of these changes come out within the game, as it will severely help the balance in Matchmaking Battles. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Thiedes 1,106]

Pretty sure developers are already aware of this matter, perhaps the duration of the overdrive matters but removing the concept of the overdrive ignoring all the enemys protection as well what you suggested regarding it no longer ignoring... wont be a thing since its a core part of hornets overdrive besides the fact that you and your team mates can see your opponents health, if nerfed, probably nothing to do with removal of the existing features.  

[TaffyTank 1,890]

Would severely lower the OD charging rate myself, or do the opposite to what u suggest and allow it to ignore DA but not modules. Huge amount of effort gone into buying my modules only to have Hornet OD ignore them at the touch of a button...but doubt this will happen.

Any nerf will do so I support this. Not losing sleep over it cos often things are OP in Tanki and sometimes you gain sometimes not. Hornet has had it's time, change is needed. And this is coming from a Hornet mk8 owner BTW.
... Will have to be nerfed when Ares is added anyway IMO. Can't have a new hull that needs to be sold being humiliated by a ridiculously overpowered Drone supported hornet OD. Will be like trying to sell an old banger motor to a Ferrari owner.

Edited July 6, 2020 by TaffyTank

[cosmic666 1,055]

10 minutes ago, Thiedes said:

Pretty sure developers are already aware of this matter, perhaps the duration of the overdrive matters but removing the concept of the overdrive ignoring all the enemys protection as well what you suggested regarding it no longer ignoring... wont be a thing since its a core part of hornets overdrive besides the fact that you and your team mates can see your opponents health, if nerfed, probably nothing to do with removal of the existing features.  

HORNET should not be able to spawn kill, it should not be able to take everything out, especially if you have an activated dome with DA on. If overdrives must stay in the game then hornets abilities across the board should be halved, at the very least by 1/3. Hornet paired in particular with vulcan / magnum (especially magnum) DOMINATES any and all battles regardless of the map. It has a MASSIVE advantage and this should have been dealt with within the first couple of weeks. That it has taken THIS LONG for players like you, (mods) to even come out and say it needs some sort of reworking to keep it in line with the rest of the game play (mechanics) is beyond belief, especially when it has had so much negative feedback from players of all ranks,.(mainly the higher ranks) where hornet is usually maxed out along with whatever turret / alt / augment it has equipped. I've never liked overdrives from the beginning,but hornets overdrive takes the meaning of UNBALANCED to new levels, way beyond anything past or present in TO. Once hornet has been sorted, the devs need to seriously look at MM and the equally UNBALANCED nature of the ranking system that can see WO5 ranks go into battle against generals, or at the very least brigadiers, that's a potential MK5 at best going up against MK7. Overdrives (hornet in particular) and MM are the two main issues most players have within the game, and these two combined have influenced the game in a detrimental way which is neither fair or balanced.  

[Viking4s 10,791]

3 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

What is TL/DR ? 

Also, Hornet OD's active running time is 20 seconds ( i looked it up on the wiki). So, nerfing it down to 7 seconds will be a death-blow to the hull. I really do not  understand the need for this.

TL/DR = too long / didn't read
It is to highlightth that the following sentence is a summary of the text wall that will follow.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Viking4s

[Viking4s 10,791]

3 hours ago, Mr.Nibbles said:

As many Players have brought it to my attention,[...]

Are you that popular?

6 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

I am perplexed at Mr.nibbles. He invalidated my idea ( about increasing self-damage from splash-damage type guns) by saying it was game-breaking and other things. I do not see how this idea of his is not game-breaking.

Your idea is invalid because it already exist. His idea is not better. TO has all the tool they need to see what is best. They also look at the big picture. We player only see the top of the iceberg and do not like to die, but the whole game is more than dying or not. There is the overall contribution to the team, only killing is not necessary good for the team which might lose the game by not capping, .... Hornet OD is making the the Hornet an efficient killing machine, but you need to survive to be able to exploit it. You won't have that type of OD on a heavy hull for example.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Viking4s

[Viking4s 10,791]

2 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

oh, i did not know that. Thanks for telling me.

nani? The splash damage already harm the guys who shoot. I can die form my own Thunder splash damage, the same for all splash damage turret. This is why you would fire at a wall behind the enemy if he is too close to you. And if you attack then dash to the front of the Thunder so he can harm itself in the process  - but beware of those who use the alteration that removes the splash damage.

[cosmic666 1,055]

26 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

Come on @Mr.Nibbles you reprimand me for posting an idea about nerfing splash-damage type turrets so that they get a greater self-damage penalty. You deem that idea as invalid because it is apparently a game-breaking idea, and i think you also meant to say that the aforementioned idea would incur many users' wrath. 

After that, I even suggested a different, nice, non-game-breaking, non-wrath incurring way of nerfing hornet OD which you deem valid. I do not understand why would you go against your own words and suggest a 'hornet destroying' nerf. If this nerf that you suggested gets implemented, don't you think many players will be angry and displeased? It will make hornet as useless as mammoth is right now. Even titan is quite useless, i do not want new hulls to join the 'useless OD club'. Please reconsider your idea. After all, you did agree with my Hornet OD Nerf - Sharing Location idea.

If hornet gets destroyed, SO BE IT. Can't wait.  

[Viking4s 10,791]

1 minute ago, At_Shin said:

omaiwa baka dessu. ( i jus kidding... orewa baka dessu too!!!)  

In my idea i suggested an increased self-damage penalty for magnum gauss, thunder and striker... you can read about it here... 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Increase or decrease is not an idea, but a wish. MASAKA

Edited July 6, 2020 by Viking4s

[cosmic666 1,055]

26 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

What is TL/DR ? 

Also, Hornet OD's active running time is 20 seconds ( i looked it up on the wiki). So, nerfing it down to 7 seconds will be a death-blow to the hull. I really do not  understand the need for this.

Death blow, bring it on i say. 

[E_polypterus 2,374]

3 minutes ago, cosmic666 said:

If hornet gets destroyed, SO BE IT. Can't wait.  

Me too.

2 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

but expect a 'war of words' if hornet gets destroyed.

Obviously lol. But still whether hornet users like it or not, it’s nerfed hahaha( and it better stay nerfed-_-)

[wolverine848 13,097]

27 minutes ago, Viking4s said:

Are you that popular?

Your idea is invalid because it already exist. His idea is not better. TO has all the tool they need to see what is best. They also look at the big picture. We player only see the top of the iceberg and do not like to die, but the whole game is more than dying or not. There is the overall contribution to the team, only killing is not necessary good for the team which might lose the game by not capping, .... Hornet OD is making the the Hornet an efficient killing machine, but you need to survive to be able to exploit it. You won't have that type of OD on a heavy hull for example.

 

 

Currently hornet can pack the punch of a main battle-tank, move with speed of a scout car, and, with the help of drones, survive like a bunker.  That you keep ignoring these facts is humorous.

[SporkZilla 1,775]

My take, no TL/DR

• Viking4s and other Hornet players have a valid point about Hornet being a low HP hull
• Hornet OD should not be able to ignore spawn protection
• Hornet OD should not charge whilst it is active
• Hornet OD should not be active for 20 seconds, no other OD allows its users to kill the same enemy twice during one activation

[cosmic666 1,055]

26 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

 

Whatever, i guess they will buff another hull while ares is introduced... i will just shift to that... but expect a 'war of words' if hornet gets destroyed.

What, just like shock freeze got obliterated, just like defender got 50% nerfed the list is endless and hornet needs seriously nerfing, it's a joke it's still OP in the game.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

24 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

Nah, @E_polypterus i think it needs the nerf I had suggested. No, need to destroy the OD when it can become a double edged sword that allows the user to see all enemies and all enemies to see the hornet user. This will ensure that players know when a hornet is approaching them. 

I read it too and yes tht is a good nerf( hope devs see these topics)))

[Viking4s 10,791]

46 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Currently hornet can pack the punch of a main battle-tank, move with speed of a scout car, and, with the help of drones, survive like a bunker.  That you keep ignoring these facts is humorous.

I think that there is a bigger picture on why Hornet OD is what it is.

a/ 8 hulls sorted in 3 hull class: 2 light hulls, 3 medium and 3 heavy (including Ares)

b/ different overdrives type: Attack (or Assault), Defense (or defensive) and Support (help the team somehow)

=> Heavy class
Mammoth OD is about attack/destruction
Titan OD is purely defense
Ares OD is about Heal and Destroy => Support

=> Medium class
Dictator OD is about support (Heal and supplies)
Hunter OD is about defense (removes many enemies tools)
Viking OD is about attack/destruction

=> Medium class
Empty slot: I bet OD this hull will be about defense
Hornet OD is about support (provide data about enemies and where about, and destroy)
Wasp  OD is about attack/destruction

Within the 3 class we have consistency on the health points, but slightly different speeds and very specific overdrive, which make each hull per class very different in their battlefield role. So from the Hunter point of view the Hornet is too OP, from the Hornet POV, Hunter is a nuisance. If you compare them by only destruction power, then Hornet is strong, and Hunter is not as it is better at other stuff.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Viking4s

[wolverine848 13,097]

9 minutes ago, Viking4s said:

I think that there is a bigger picture on why Hornet OD is what it is.

a/ 8 hulls sorted in 3 hull class: 2 light hulls, 3 medium and 3 heavy (including Ares)

b/ different overdrives type: Attack (or Assault), Defense (or defensive) and Support (help the team somehow)

=> Heavy class
Mammoth OD is about attack/destruction
Titan OD is purely defense
Ares OD is about Heal and Destroy => Support

=> Medium class
Dictator OD is about support (Heal and supplies)
Hunter OD is about defense (removes many enemies tools)
Viking OD is about attack/destruction

=> Medium class
Empty slot: I bet OD this hull will be about defense
Hornet OD is about support (provide data about enemies and where about, and destroy)
Wasp  OD is about attack/destruction

Within the 3 class we have consistency on the health points, but slightly different speeds and very specific overdrive, which make each hull per class very different in their battlefield role. So from the Hunter point of view the Hornet is too OP, from the Hornet POV, Hunter is a nuisance. If you compare them by only destruction power, then Hornet is strong, and Hunter is not as it is better at other stuff.

Having Offensive OD for the light hull (hornet) is not the issue.

It's how far they have gone is the issue. Viking (offensive OD) gets only 7 seconds, but it those 7 seconds it is debatable if it can bring down a target in the Dome.  Hornet?  No problem - at all.  It's TOO much.

When discussing ODs you need to look at what you can combine with it as well to measure it's impact.

You say Titan is purely defense - but it doesn't even do that.  It is vulnerable to too many things "on the board".  It rarely serves it's role.

Hunter is not really a nuisance to hornet - the hornet, 90% of the time can kill the hunter before it's in range - or even before the hunter OD can activate due to that ridiculous delay.

Please submit a response to this - why is hornet allowed to destroy spawning enemies?  Spawn-protection should be universal.

[Viking4s 10,791]

26 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Having Offensive OD for the light hull (hornet) is not the issue.

It's how far they have gone is the issue. Viking (offensive OD) gets only 7 seconds, but it those 7 seconds it is debatable if it can bring down a target in the Dome.  Hornet?  No problem - at all.  It's TOO much.

When discussing ODs you need to look at what you can combine with it as well to measure it's impact.

You say Titan is purely defense - but it doesn't even do that.  It is vulnerable to too many things "on the board".  It rarely serves it's role.

Hunter is not really a nuisance to hornet - the hornet, 90% of the time can kill the hunter before it's in range - or even before the hunter OD can activate due to that ridiculous delay.

Please submit a response to this - why is hornet allowed to destroy spawning enemies?  Spawn-protection should be universal.

I won't be surprised if something happens to or against Overdrive OD. Like a debuf or a new Augment a sort of Scout immunity, same way they did with the Augment immunity against Stun and EMP. The more we cry against Hornet the more it open a needs for a $$$ solution like the Augment option IMO. 

Why not? The flyer says that scout remove any defense and protection (WYSIWYG), is spawn protection not a protection? I doesn't not happen so often (to me), plus i am against that baby-sitting protection. In a way it is a cunning devs move, we give spawn protection but but still beware of the Hornet

Edited July 6, 2020 by Viking4s

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

3 hours ago, Thiedes said:

Pretty sure developers are already aware of this matter, perhaps the duration of the overdrive matters but removing the concept of the overdrive ignoring all the enemys protection as well what you suggested regarding it no longer ignoring... wont be a thing since its a core part of hornets overdrive besides the fact that you and your team mates can see your opponents health, if nerfed, probably nothing to do with removal of the existing features.  

What if it was allowed to ignore up to 75% of everything? Also they should remove the ignoring spawn protection part, I mean what's the point of the spawn protection if the most popular hull in the game can just still kill you just like that?

[Thiedes 1,106]

3 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

What if it was allowed to ignore up to 75% of everything? Also they should remove the ignoring spawn protection part, I mean what's the point of the spawn protection if the most popular hull in the game can just still kill you just like that?

We just have to wait and see what the developers have in store for us  , Of course any suggestions/feedback we deem as pretty useful regarding nurfing the hornets overdrive shall be passed on to the developers regardless of it being valid or totally declined. 

 

[Dunsparce 36]

As we already know, Hornet itself is already burdened with paper defenses and the ease to be moved/flipped over, but what its overdrive currently provides is desperately needed. Its active time, I think, is fine more or less.  I agree, Hornet should not ignore spawn protection. However, it should still ignore all double defense buffs (especially the ones provided by defender and crisis) except for the protection given by modules. 

From personal experience of previous and the current meta, a few too many MM battles leave me wondering, "What even am I supposed to do?" 

Going up against someone with 50% module protection against you is not great but not terrible of a situation. I think it's unfair and not fun to watch you die in a second as a player with hornet OD passes by, ignoring your 50% module protection against them. It personally leaves a bad taste in my mouth considering how expensive modules can be nowadays. It's also not fun to watch players with 50% module protection against you and stack their double defense with additional defense given by the aforementioned drones and essentially become "mini God_Mode" tanks. So what can we do against such a player? Nothing really. 

1) Can't chip them because their defense is absurdly high for too long. 

2) Can't take their supplies off because of possible EMP protection

3) Can't burn them because of possible fire immunity (which I think is subject to another topic of discussion)

4) And against a player using hornet OD, can't touch them because they will kill you first even with spawn protection.

In a battle, it would be ideal to just double or triple team such a player but even that's not possible when everyone in your team is either too weak or dead. However, hornet OD removes (or at least gives you a fighting chance to do so) such powerful players. The fact that we NEED hornet's overdrive is indicative to previous and current meta. It's toxic.

[Gauss-Hornet 489]

I agree with most of the discussions, but keep in mind a few things:

1. Hornet's OD is OP because of the offence and defence mechanisms of the high ranks.

In the lower and middle ranks, people buy new modifications of equipment, and the increased damage of higher modification turrets is countered by the increased HP of higher modification hulls. Similarly, double damage is equally countered by double armour.

But in the higher ranks, Modules (offering up to 50% protection) and defence drones increase the level of defence, while offensive drones and certain Augments increase the level of offence. And while these might counter each other, the main problem comes when Hornet's OD ignores this wall of protection (consisting of DA, Modules and possibly a drone), creating a huge power gap. This allows the user to exploit their offensive mechanisms without facing any hinderance.

2. Hornet's OD is ideal when using long-range turrets, like Gauss, and camping. While using short and medium range turrets, though, the low HP of Hornet doesn't allow its optimum usage. 

3. Any drastic change implemented in the duration or recharge of the OD will not only affect those high ranked buyers exploiting it, but also low ranked players who already don't find it of much use.

Keeping the above points in mind, I think the suitable changes to Hornet's overdrive would be:

1. Remove spawn-protection ignore.

2. Kills made while OD is active should not give any extra charge, only passive charging should take place.

3. 100% ignore of Modules should be decreased to around 30% (Or a more suitable value) or even removed completely.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, Viking4s said:

Why not? The flyer says that scout remove any defense and protection (WYSIWYG),

This is not a reason to allow it to spawn-kill.  All things can be changed - even the flyer.

Your "answer" was no answer - it was just a dodge.

[cosmic666 1,055]

4 hours ago, Viking4s said:

I think that there is a bigger picture on why Hornet OD is what it is.

a/ 8 hulls sorted in 3 hull class: 2 light hulls, 3 medium and 3 heavy (including Ares)

b/ different overdrives type: Attack (or Assault), Defense (or defensive) and Support (help the team somehow)

=> Heavy class
Mammoth OD is about attack/destruction
Titan OD is purely defense
Ares OD is about Heal and Destroy => Support

=> Medium class
Dictator OD is about support (Heal and supplies)
Hunter OD is about defense (removes many enemies tools)
Viking OD is about attack/destruction

=> Medium class
Empty slot: I bet OD this hull will be about defense
Hornet OD is about support (provide data about enemies and where about, and destroy)
Wasp  OD is about attack/destruction

Within the 3 class we have consistency on the health points, but slightly different speeds and very specific overdrive, which make each hull per class very different in their battlefield role. So from the Hunter point of view the Hornet is too OP, from the Hornet POV, Hunter is a nuisance. If you compare them by only destruction power, then Hornet is strong, and Hunter is not as it is better at other stuff.

You make sense, but wolverine has grasped the overdrive issue better than most.The classes you have put the hulls in might look good on paper, but in actual battles it comes down to what the individual player wants to do, regardless of the hull he has equipped. Yes a methodical player might use a specific hull for what you describe, but most players equip combos to get the best battle funds they can, and usually follow a well rehearsed battle plan for each map they battle in. I adjust my gameplay accordingly to the map i play on, and even change combos completely in certain maps, including alts and drones. TO  has become quite complicated over these last couple of years which has brought about some updates that have had a adverse effect on a lot of players, mostly F2P and to a lesser degree some P2W players. MM and OVERDRIVES are the biggest drawbacks that players want to see corrected so they become fair and balanced for all.