category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S 432]

Whilst some good points are being raised, here spare a thought for the Titan OD, the only one in the game which is countered by 4 other hulls' ODs - Wasp, Hornet, Hunter, Mammoth. Even Viking can be considered a "soft" counter but not as much as the aforementioned.  I'd happily substitute allowing Hornet to continue ignoring DA + Modules if it meant it couldn't ignore Titan's dome as this would do 3 things:

• Nerf Hornet, but not massively (General consensus is that a nerf is required)
• Buff Titan OD - as I have explained above why this is required 
• Encourage more Titan usage, and allow Titan to counter another overdrive other than Wasp  (which I wouldn't even consider much of a counter since it is usually Titan users doming up and then Wasps sneaking in and bombing it)

This makes sense to me as (correct me if im wrong but) Titan OD and Hornet OD both last the same length of time and seeing a teammate Titan with OD ready would mean that staying alongside him when dome is used = easier captures of CPs, Sieges, better ASL defence, which is what Titan dome was intended for in the first place. Of course, it could still be countered by Wasp, Hunter, Mammoth. 

Just another suggestion and some food for thought, at this point I think most players are so fed up with this issue that any form of nerf would be gladly recieved.

[Alklines 1,751]

I think everything should stay the same with the current Hornet OD, except that it'd load slower, like Viking's OD. It's quite common to see Hornet users constantly having their OD on throughout the entire battle, being a killing machine.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S said:

Whilst some good points are being raised, here spare a thought for the Titan OD, the only one in the game which is countered by 4 other hulls' ODs - Wasp, Hornet, Hunter, Mammoth.

5 hulls (not including Viking) can counter Titan.  You forgot Titan can counter Titan.  Even a friendly Titan, of all things...

11 minutes ago, Alklines said:

I think everything should stay the same with the current Hornet OD, except that it'd load slower, like Viking's OD. It's quite common to see Hornet users constantly having their OD on throughout the entire battle, being a killing machine.

So you think hornet is ok except maybe a slower reload.  Not even removing ability to kill spawning tanks?  

You don't by any chance use hornet a lot do you?   And you wouldn't happen to have a lot of hours in Defender drone would you?   

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

2 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

You forgot Titan can counter Titan.  Even a friendly Titan, of all things...

Say what? 

 

Seems like the devs totally messed this one up.

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, cosmic666 said:

You make sense, but wolverine has grasped the overdrive issue better than most.The classes you have put the hulls in might look good on paper, but in actual battles it comes down to what the individual player wants to do, regardless of the hull he has equipped. Yes a methodical player might use a specific hull for what you describe, but most players equip combos to get the best battle funds they can, and usually follow a well rehearsed battle plan for each map they battle in. I adjust my gameplay accordingly to the map i play on, and even change combos completely in certain maps, including alts and drones. TO  has become quite complicated over these last couple of years which has brought about some updates that have had a adverse effect on a lot of players, mostly F2P and to a lesser degree some P2W players. MM and OVERDRIVES are the biggest drawbacks that players want to see corrected so they become fair and balanced for all. 

The game has totally become about STARS.  The majority of players now don't play for the win - they play for stars.

I've been on teams that were winning, and lost multiple players.  I'm pretty sure the reason for this is - those players were not going to get 2+ stars - so they bailed.  They did not give a hoot the team had a great chance of winning.  All they cared about was... not getting 2+ stars.

Challenges are as much to blame for state of TO as hornet OD is.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Just now, DieselPlatinum said:

Say what? 

 

Seems like the devs totally messed this one up.

The 2nd Titan replaces the first dome if a team-mate.  So make sure you're far enough apart.  And yes - it IS that stupid.

[Alklines 1,751]

10 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

So you think hornet is ok except maybe a slower reload.  Not even removing ability to kill spawning tanks?  

You don't by any chance use hornet a lot do you?   And you wouldn't happen to have a lot of hours in Defender drone would you?   

I used to play with Hornet a lot, but that's too easy and dominates excessively. I like to use Dictator or Viking nowadays. Defender is my go-to drone, but I also use Booster on the side. 

Also, I can see why removing the ability to ignore spawn protection using Hornet OD is much needed, and I haven't thought of that until now. It's a valid point.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Alklines

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 minutes ago, Alklines said:

but that's too easy and dominates excessively

Ummmm.... 

Ya wanna re-think your solution based on the new evidence above?

[coconuttree 519]

I have a feeling hornet OD won't be nerfed until they release some hull alterations granting immunity against it, and make some good money out of it.

Edited July 7, 2020 by coconuttree

[cosmic666 1,055]

6 hours ago, coconuttree said:

I have a feeling hornet OD won't be nerfed until they release some hull alterations granting immunity against it, and make some good money out of it.

Sounds about right, and if they do i will continue to keep my 2 accounts i use for missions only, then it's back on the shelf.  

[cosmic666 1,055]

On 7/6/2020 at 6:08 PM, Dunsparce said:

As we already know, Hornet itself is already burdened with paper defenses and the ease to be moved/flipped over, but what its overdrive currently provides is desperately needed. Its active time, I think, is fine more or less.  I agree, Hornet should not ignore spawn protection. However, it should still ignore all double defense buffs (especially the ones provided by defender and crisis) except for the protection given by modules. 

From personal experience of previous and the current meta, a few too many MM battles leave me wondering, "What even am I supposed to do?" 

Going up against someone with 50% module protection against you is not great but not terrible of a situation. I think it's unfair and not fun to watch you die in a second as a player with hornet OD passes by, ignoring your 50% module protection against them. It personally leaves a bad taste in my mouth considering how expensive modules can be nowadays. It's also not fun to watch players with 50% module protection against you and stack their double defense with additional defense given by the aforementioned drones and essentially become "mini God_Mode" tanks. So what can we do against such a player? Nothing really. 

1) Can't chip them because their defense is absurdly high for too long. 

2) Can't take their supplies off because of possible EMP protection

3) Can't burn them because of possible fire immunity (which I think is subject to another topic of discussion)

4) And against a player using hornet OD, can't touch them because they will kill you first even with spawn protection.

In a battle, it would be ideal to just double or triple team such a player but even that's not possible when everyone in your team is either too weak or dead. However, hornet OD removes (or at least gives you a fighting chance to do so) such powerful players. The fact that we NEED hornet's overdrive is indicative to previous and current meta. It's toxic.

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by cosmic666

[cosmic666 1,055]

23 hours ago, Gauss-Hornet said:

I agree with most of the discussions, but keep in mind a few things:

1. Hornet's OD is OP because of the offence and defence mechanisms of the high ranks.

In the lower and middle ranks, people buy new modifications of equipment, and the increased damage of higher modification turrets is countered by the increased HP of higher modification hulls. Similarly, double damage is equally countered by double armour.

But in the higher ranks, Modules (offering up to 50% protection) and defence drones increase the level of defence, while offensive drones and certain Augments increase the level of offence. And while these might counter each other, the main problem comes when Hornet's OD ignores this wall of protection (consisting of DA, Modules and possibly a drone), creating a huge power gap. This allows the user to exploit their offensive mechanisms without facing any hinderance.

2. Hornet's OD is ideal when using long-range turrets, like Gauss, and camping. While using short and medium range turrets, though, the low HP of Hornet doesn't allow its optimum usage. 

3. Any drastic change implemented in the duration or recharge of the OD will not only affect those high ranked buyers exploiting it, but also low ranked players who already don't find it of much use.

Keeping the above points in mind, I think the suitable changes to Hornet's overdrive would be:

1. Remove spawn-protection ignore.

2. Kills made while OD is active should not give any extra charge, only passive charging should take place.

3. 100% ignore of Modules should be decreased to around 30% (Or a more suitable value) or even removed completely.

Not completely right but not very far off the mark 

[cosmic666 1,055]

Just faced off Against hornets overdrive 3 times in battle,lost 3 times with 45 against vulcan maxed out hunter maxed out defender drone(which is now useless) just another reason after missions are done i no longer play. This overdrive needs massively nerfed right now , better still get rid of all overdrives.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

On 7/6/2020 at 1:57 PM, Gauss-Hornet said:

Keeping the above points in mind, I think the suitable changes to Hornet's overdrive would be:

1. Remove spawn-protection ignore.

2. Kills made while OD is active should not give any extra charge, only passive charging should take place.

3. 100% ignore of Modules should be decreased to around 30% (Or a more suitable value) or even removed completely.

1. Yes. 
2. Hm.... 
3. To me, it should have 30% module-piercing effect by additively, not multiplicative. Multiplicative can be confusing to calculate. Basically someone with 50% defence will be brought down to 20%, to prevent getting OHKO. 
4. Completely bypass Double Armor and Defender drone effect.

Edited July 7, 2020 by FrozenRailgun

[Dunsparce 36]

1 hour ago, cosmic666 said:

WRONG

Very informative. 

[Devoid 2,601]

19 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

The 2nd Titan replaces the first dome if a team-mate.  So make sure you're far enough apart.  And yes - it IS that stupid.

You got me thinking, actually...

Maybe Hornet's Overdrive could be the same way as Titan's in this regard, where if you get too close to someone else that has the Hornet Overdrive activated, they are cancelled out...This would also lead to a new, tactical side of battles, where it could be wise to use your Hornet Overdrive intentionally close to someone, that way the Player using their Overdrive loses their "super powers."

I feel like this wouldn't be overly large/game-breaking of a change, and it would definitely cut back on the number of Hornet Overdrives active in a match, which is a positive...

[D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S 432]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Nibbles said:

You got me thinking, actually...

Maybe Hornet's Overdrive could be the same way as Titan's in this regard, where if you get too close to someone else that has the Hornet Overdrive activated, they are cancelled out...This would also lead to a new, tactical side of battles, where it could be wise to use your Hornet Overdrive intentionally close to someone, that way the Player using their Overdrive loses their "super powers."

I feel like this wouldn't be overly large/game-breaking of a change, and it would definitely cut back on the number of Hornet Overdrives active in a match, which is a positive...

Not game breaking, but definitely not enough of a nerf to balance Hornet properly. Perhaps in conjunction with some other changes this could be viable

[Dunsparce 36]

16 minutes ago, Mr.Nibbles said:

You got me thinking, actually...

Maybe Hornet's Overdrive could be the same way as Titan's in this regard, where if you get too close to someone else that has the Hornet Overdrive activated, they are cancelled out...This would also lead to a new, tactical side of battles, where it could be wise to use your Hornet Overdrive intentionally close to someone, that way the Player using their Overdrive loses their "super powers."

I feel like this wouldn't be overly large/game-breaking of a change, and it would definitely cut back on the number of Hornet Overdrives active in a match, which is a positive...

That sounds very cool. Question is, what would be an optimal range? I want to say 20-25 meters should be good enough? 

[fire199 267]

On 7/7/2020 at 5:57 AM, Gauss-Hornet said:

I agree with most of the discussions, but keep in mind a few things:

1. Hornet's OD is OP because of the offence and defence mechanisms of the high ranks.

In the lower and middle ranks, people buy new modifications of equipment, and the increased damage of higher modification turrets is countered by the increased HP of higher modification hulls. Similarly, double damage is equally countered by double armour.

But in the higher ranks, Modules (offering up to 50% protection) and defence drones increase the level of defence, while offensive drones and certain Augments increase the level of offence. And while these might counter each other, the main problem comes when Hornet's OD ignores this wall of protection (consisting of DA, Modules and possibly a drone), creating a huge power gap. This allows the user to exploit their offensive mechanisms without facing any hinderance.

2. Hornet's OD is ideal when using long-range turrets, like Gauss, and camping. While using short and medium range turrets, though, the low HP of Hornet doesn't allow its optimum usage. 

3. Any drastic change implemented in the duration or recharge of the OD will not only affect those high ranked buyers exploiting it, but also low ranked players who already don't find it of much use.

Keeping the above points in mind, I think the suitable changes to Hornet's overdrive would be:

1. Remove spawn-protection ignore.

2. Kills made while OD is active should not give any extra charge, only passive charging should take place.

3. 100% ignore of Modules should be decreased to around 30% (Or a more suitable value) or even removed completely.

 OD's are there so we can have  fun killing and to counter Buyers  

Any drastic change implemented in the duration or recharge of the OD will not only affect those high ranked buyers exploiting it, - wrong I am a ftp My usual combo is titan smoky but i used hornet for the 5 days of premium and used most of my saved up drugs and it was fun bypassing spawn protection, a fun style of game play 

 

the good thing they did was Nerf defender now you shouldn't have a problem destroying a hornet, should be half the time it took before any more nerfs and you will just make hornet boring to use like Hunter OD's or even Titan 

 

Again OD is the best counters to Drones which many buyers use so nerfing them is just hurting you.

 

buffing other OD is the only option if you think hornet OD is superior To  other OD which it is 

thus instead of asking them to nerf Hornets OD which will result it to be like titan Mammoth or Hunter OD which is super boring To use just ask the devs to buff the other Overdrives. 

 

Small changes could be 

Wasp 2.5 secs to deploy bomb 

Titan self healing

etc..

 

Remember asking for nerfs on OD just make them more boring to play with, hunter, Mammoth and titan should revert to their old state when their OD was fun to use

 

and please for some people out there i hope they arnt just jumping On a bandwagon saying hornet is OP, i never use hornet without drugs because i would die within 1-2 secs getting 1 shot, that why my usual combo is Titian which is basically a hornet with Double amour and i dont use drugs on. 

So for a ftp like me Hornet is very situational i only use it during events and when i have enough drugs saved up as its a killing machine, if they buffed other overdrives then maybe i wouldn't have to just rely on Hornet for events and would have fun playing with other hulls too.  

Rn Other than Viking and ofc hornet the other Overdrives are very bland and boring  

 

 

if people keep complaining to nerf Overdrives the game will be very bland and not have any interesting aspects. 

@Thiedes heres my take on it, so please take my feedback into account when sending the overall feedback to the devs 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by fire199

[cosmic666 1,055]

3 hours ago, Dunsparce said:

Very informative. 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by cosmic666

[cosmic666 1,055]

35 minutes ago, fire199 said:

 OD's are there so we can have  fun killing and to counter Buyers  

Any drastic change implemented in the duration or recharge of the OD will not only affect those high ranked buyers exploiting it, - wrong I am a ftp My usual combo is titan smoky but i used hornet for the 5 days of premium and used most of my saved up drugs and it was fun bypassing spawn protection, a fun style of game play 

 

the good thing they did was Nerf defender now you shouldn't have a problem destroying a hornet, should be half the time it took before any more nerfs and you will just make hornet boring to use like Hunter OD's or even Titan 

 

Again OD is the best counters to Drones which many buyers use so nerfing them is just hurting you.

 

buffing other OD is the only option if you think hornet OD is superior To  other OD which it is 

thus instead of asking them to nerf Hornets OD which will result it to be like titan Mammoth or Hunter OD which is super boring To use just ask the devs to buff the other Overdrives. 

 

Small changes could be 

Wasp 2.5 secs to deploy bomb 

Titan self healing

etc..

 

Remember asking for nerfs on OD just make them more boring to play with, hunter, Mammoth and titan should revert to their old state when their OD was fun to use

 

and please for some people out there i hope they arnt just jumping On a bandwagon saying hornet is OP, i never use hornet without drugs because i would die within 1-2 secs getting 1 shot, that why my usual combo is Titian which is basically a hornet with Double amour and i dont use drugs on. 

So for a ftp like me Hornet is very situational i only use it during events and when i have enough drugs saved up as its a killing machine, if they buffed other overdrives then maybe i wouldn't have to just rely on Hornet for events and would have fun playing with other hulls too.  

Rn Other than Viking and ofc hornet the other Overdrives are very bland and boring  

 

 

if people keep complaining to nerf stuff the game will be very bland and not have any interesting aspects. 

 

The more i read the more i realise that players are either HORNET USERS, therefore totally against nerfing hornet at all, have no clue what they are talking (posting) about, therefore their replies (suggestions) are at best just mixed up ramblings, (adhoc words strung together that come across as very juvenile). Are they just like to go against anyone that has a true understanding of why -TO- is so very UNBALANCED, and that a huge % of what happens within the parameters of the game is influenced by generating as much cash as possible. If certain players can't work that out, then by all means enjoy -TO- JUST THE WAY IT IS. I to enjoy the game very much, but in its current state it has become 100% P2W. The overdrives and all these alts were brought into the game to make cash,and if some aspects of these changes where OP then so be it, because the devs knew players would be drawn to these OP updates to try and gain a significant edge in battle.That more than anything is what motivates the devs to deliberately introduce OP equipment into the game, and the effect it has on the P2W players to gain an edge in battle, is all the motivation they need. 

[Viking4s 10,791]

6 minutes ago, cosmic666 said:

The more i read the more i realise that players are either HORNET USERS, therefore totally against nerfing hornet at all, have no clue what they are talking (posting) about, therefore their replies (suggestions) are at best just mixed up ramblings, (adhoc words strung together that come across as very juvenile). Are they just like to go against anyone that has a true understanding of why -TO- is so very UNBALANCED, and that a huge % of what happens within the parameters of the game is influenced by generating as much cash as possible. If certain players can't work that out, then by all means enjoy -TO- JUST THE WAY IT IS. I to enjoy the game very much, but in its current state it has become 100% P2W. The overdrives and all these alts were brought into the game to make cash,and if some aspects of these changes where OP then so be it, because the devs knew players would be drawn to these OP updates to try and gain a significant edge in battle.That more than anything is what motivates the devs to deliberately introduce OP equipment into the game, and the effect it has on the P2W players to gain an edge in battle, is all the motivation they need. 

that's what I call an  to support a  point.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Viking4s

[fire199 267]

11 minutes ago, cosmic666 said:

The more i read the more i realise that players are either HORNET USERS, therefore totally against nerfing hornet at all, have no clue what they are talking (posting) about, therefore their replies (suggestions) are at best just mixed up ramblings, (adhoc words strung together that come across as very juvenile). Are they just like to go against anyone that has a true understanding of why -TO- is so very UNBALANCED, and that a huge % of what happens within the parameters of the game is influenced by generating as much cash as possible. If certain players can't work that out, then by all means enjoy -TO- JUST THE WAY IT IS. I to enjoy the game very much, but in its current state it has become 100% P2W. The overdrives and all these alts were brought into the game to make cash,and if some aspects of these changes where OP then so be it, because the devs knew players would be drawn to these OP updates to try and gain a significant edge in battle.That more than anything is what motivates the devs to deliberately introduce OP equipment into the game, and the effect it has on the P2W players to gain an edge in battle, is all the motivation they need. 

"The more i read the more i realise that players are either HORNET USERS", - looks like you cant read English or be bothered to check my profile

Overdrives dont bring in cash... wth are you on about

"have no clue what they are talking (posting) about, therefore their replies (suggestions) are at best just mixed up ramblings, (adhoc words strung together that come across as very juvenile)".-- this is what you sound like rn haha 

Edited July 7, 2020 by fire199

[cosmic666 1,055]

2 hours ago, Mr.Nibbles said:

You got me thinking, actually...

Maybe Hornet's Overdrive could be the same way as Titan's in this regard, where if you get too close to someone else that has the Hornet Overdrive activated, they are cancelled out...This would also lead to a new, tactical side of battles, where it could be wise to use your Hornet Overdrive intentionally close to someone, that way the Player using their Overdrive loses their "super powers."

I feel like this wouldn't be overly large/game-breaking of a change, and it would definitely cut back on the number of Hornet Overdrives active in a match, which is a positive...

Nice idea, but still does not deal with the OP overdrive issue. Yes they cancel each other out but being realistic, in normal game play this i feel would still not stop hornet from dominating battles by a large %. 

[cosmic666 1,055]

7 minutes ago, fire199 said:

"The more i read the more i realise that players are either HORNET USERS", - looks like you cant read English or be bothered to check my profile

Overdrives dont bring in cash... wth are you on about

"have no clue what they are talking (posting) about, therefore their replies (suggestions) are at best just mixed up ramblings, (adhoc words strung together that come across as very juvenile)".-- this is what you sound like rn haha 

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