declined Nefing mouse control, specifically in format battles

[Picassoo 191]

Mouse control is overpowered. It gives a player a flat-out advantage — the ability to look around without rotating their turret. This allows for perfectly accurate shots even while doing a 360, and helps the user know what exactly is happening on the battlefield without affecting your driving (looking around fast with keyboard controls requires you to move your hull, at least with mid — long range turrets). Even without it, one could look around with fast mouse swipes and pull off easy spin shots.

This is especially harmful to XP, BP and XP/BP, which is why I believe mouse controls need a nerf at least in these battle formats. A good option would be to remove the ability to look around without rotating one's turret. At the same time, a mouse player shouldn't be able to look more than 30 — 45 degrees from where their barrel is pointing. Shaft already has such angle limits in sniper mode, so this isn't anything strange that would make it impossible to play comfortably.

I do not mean to be unkind towards mouse players. Yes, mouse also requires skill, but at the same time yields an unfair advantage and removes a certain skill factor.

 

[Maf 32,321]

Under review

Declined

I'll give it the benefit of doubt, but I can guarantee nothing like this will ever happen. Mouse controls are inferior in nature when it comes to Tanki, so the added advantage of quickly looking behind you is compensated by the difficulty in aiming and controlling the tank. Also, I'm assuming you haven't actually played much with mouse controls, because at the moment they have a massive issue where the turret turns too far when following the camera, making "easy spin shots" not so easy at all. I never use long reload turrets with mouse controls due to the high chance of missing when turning the turret.

Besides, have you considered how it will actually work when your camera won't fully follow your mouse as you move it? it will be extremely frustrating and completely unplayable.

[Picassoo 191]

20 minutes ago, Maf said:

Mouse controls are inferior in nature when it comes to Tanki, so the added advantage of quickly looking behind you is compensated by the difficulty in aiming and controlling the tank.

Ummm... They allow for near perfect accuracy without tiny keyboard readjustments and work just as well in practice when learned.

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Also, I'm assuming you haven't actually played much with mouse controls, because at the moment they have a massive issue where the turret turns too far when following the camera, making "easy spin shots" not so easy at all. I never use long reload turrets with mouse controls due to the high chance of missing when turning the turret.

Multiple times I've faced players in XP/BP who just keep making spin shots with ease even when my tank is exposing only a small part of itself, while even the best keyboard players can only do reliable spin shots when the enemy is on an open field, otherwise they have to slow down at the end of the spin for readjusting. Even eSports players are learning mouse controls.

Admittedly, I haven't leaned mouse controls, but they're not awkward or uncomfortable. I simply haven't acquired the aiming reflexes I have with keyboard controls.

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Besides, have you considered how it will actually work when your camera won't fully follow your mouse as you move it? it will be extremely frustrating and completely unplayable.

I have considered the angle limit. Once you'd reach it, you could only move your mouse proportionately to how fast the turret is rotating. You'd have around 60 — 90 degrees to maneuver anyway. But you couldn't pre-aim at an opponent and then allow the game to do its own, nor could you see enemies far behind you.

[Blutaar 1,904]

I have been forced to play with mouse-controls because my laptop has installed anti-ghosting on it, preventing me to use several keys at the same time. After a lot of practice I have managed to master these controls, in fact I am so used to mouse-controls that it's hard for me to switch back to keys (which is also impossible). If mouse-controls were to undergo a drastical change, I would be unhappy about that. 

[Maf 32,321]

17 minutes ago, Picassoo said:

Multiple times I've faced players in XP/BP who just keep making spin shots with ease even when my tank is exposing only a small part of itself, while even the best keyboard players can only do reliable spin shots when the enemy is on an open field, otherwise they have to slow down at the end of the spin for readjusting. Even eSports players are learning mouse controls.

Did they then tell you that they were using mouse controls? Or did you just assume? I have a hard time believing that mouse controls are the reason these players are landing these shots, rather than just sheer skill.

18 minutes ago, Picassoo said:

Once you'd reach it, you could only move your mouse proportionately to how fast the turret is rotating.

You can move your mouse as fast as your muscles allow you to. But if you're moving your mouse and the screen is limiting your camera movement to a lower rate, the experience will be extremely frustrating.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

Mouse control is an option, that everyone can use, and how to nerf an option? It's like nerf the keyboard controls with removing xcz because it's too OP. If you think mouse is OP, why don't you use it?

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

Another thing I'd like you to all to consider.

You are all no doubt aware of the Shaft scope being a downgrade from Flash. However, this only applies to keyboard players and not mouse players. How bad is this change, you ask? Well, for someone who spent the entirety of 2019 practicing and perfecting the art of Shaft, this made me quit Shaft almost entirely on HTML5. People can cry all they want about the camera being messed up for XP/BP, but this is something that has absolutely destroyed the Shaft keyboard players. Meanwhile, the mouse players are having the times of their lives.

Maybe I would have been fine with this if this had been the case for a bit and then got patched, but it has been almost a year, and little to nothing has actually changed. If this isn't fixed by the time Flash kicks the bucket for good, I honestly don't know what I'll do. Another thing to consider would be to make the camera movement adjustable like it was in Flash, so it's not nearly as dizzying as it is now.

Finally, Hopper's strafing is a major annoyance to deal with these days. That definitely needs to be toned down.

[alkyng 3,080]

mouse controls in tanki isn't ever and wont and impossible to be better than keyboard or at least qualified to keyboard, no it's inferior to keyboard always...

except when they give it a much OP advantages like Hopper-Ares that compensate the lack of skills in the player when the tank just follow the mouse... Imagine how the "noob" just point his mouse at the target and shot where he moves.. really disappointing.

Like in mobile controls it won't ever be qualified to PC, but when added a OP advantages like Ares and change the game mechanics just for those players.......

[Blutaar 1,904]

18 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

mouse controls in tanki isn't ever and wont and impossible to be better than keyboard or at least qualified to keyboard, no it's inferior to keyboard always...

except when they give it a much OP advantages like Hopper-Ares that compensate the lack of skills in the player when the tank just follow the mouse... Imagine how the "noob" just point his mouse at the target and shot where he moves.. really disappointing.

Like in mobile controls it won't ever be qualified to PC, but when added a OP advantages like Ares and change the game mechanics just for those players.......

which of the two methods is best is purely subjectively-based, generally it's easier to use keyboard while it's relatively harder to get the hang of mouse-controls because keyboard-controls tend to be more standard. I prefer mouse-controls over keyboard since I need to use both my keyboard (WASD) and mouse for most games I play, it also feels more structured to have two different methods of controls

[alkyng 3,080]

1 minute ago, BloodPressure said:

which of the two methods is best is purely subjectively-based, generally it's easier to use keyboard while it's relatively harder to get the hang of mouse-controls because keyboard-controls tend to be more standard. I prefer mouse-controls over keyboard since I need to use both my keyboard (WASD) and mouse for most games I play, it also feels more structured to have two different methods of controls

I don't see any problem with you, as you aren't a Ares-Hopper user... but I mean here specifically the players who didn't turn their turret... Ares and mouse controls compensate this lack of skills and experience

Yes I know the most games are just based on WASD - Mouse ... but in tanki it's not,

they try hardly to get new players by adding things like mouse controls but the funny thing the players in decrease after each update.. tanki was something popular in the past without either mouse controls or mobile version (though maybe the difference in the time affect a lot) 

 

[Okami 3,041]

21 hours ago, Picassoo said:

a mouse player shouldn't be able to look more than 30 — 45 degrees from where their barrel is pointing. Shaft already has such angle limits in sniper mode

Yes, it does have that limitation, but only vertically. It can go the whole 360 degrees horizontally.

[Son_Goku 523]

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

mouse controls in tanki isn't ever and wont and impossible to be better than keyboard or at least qualified to keyboard, no it's inferior to keyboard always...

This is wrong on so many levels

[r0fl 3]

Since getting used to mouse controls is hard, the 360 vision does balance it out, but I must agree the extra sight gives the upper hand. Limiting the vision to 180 would be a suitable nerf in my opinion

[Maf 32,321]

By the way, I must point out that mouse controls are VERY easy to get used to on hover hulls, and I absolutely love the way the controls were made for them. It's much more difficult with conventional hulls, so I think I personally will always use mouse with hovers and keyboard with others.

[Dridrien 157]

11 hours ago, Tidebreaker said:

Une autre chose que j'aimerais que vous considériez tous.

Vous savez tous sans aucun doute que la portée Shaft est une rétrogradation de Flash. Cependant, cela ne s'applique qu'aux claviéristes et non aux souris. À quel point ce changement est-il mauvais, demandez-vous? Eh bien, pour quelqu'un qui a passé toute l'année 2019 à pratiquer et à perfectionner l'art de Shaft, cela m'a fait quitter Shaft presque entièrement sur HTML5. Les gens peuvent pleurer autant qu'ils veulent que la caméra soit foirée pour XP / BP, mais c'est quelque chose qui a absolument détruit les claviers Shaft. Pendant ce temps, les joueurs de souris vivent les moments de leur vie.

Peut-être que j'aurais été bien avec cela si cela avait été le cas pendant un moment, puis avait été corrigé, mais cela fait presque un an, et peu ou rien n'a vraiment changé. Si ce problème n'est pas résolu au moment où Flash lance définitivement le seau  , je ne sais honnêtement pas ce que je vais faire. Une autre chose à considérer serait de rendre le mouvement de la caméra réglable comme dans Flash, donc ce n'est pas aussi vertigineux que maintenant.

Enfin, le mitraillage de Hopper est un   désagrément majeur à gérer ces jours-ci. Cela doit certainement être atténué.

I have played the shaft a lot (over 700h) for years and years with the mouse.  the mouse is certainly slower but much more precise I think.  After that you just have to anticipate your opponent.  it just takes a little practice

after like playing on mouse on flash then again mouse on html5 I did not see the difference for me.

[Picassoo 191]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:36 AM, mjmj5558 said:

Mouse control is an option, that everyone can use, and how to nerf an option?

I just gave a nerf example.

 

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It's like nerf the keyboard controls with removing xcz because it's too OP.

I don't understand.

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If you think mouse is OP, why don't you use it?

It took me 600 hours to perfect my aiming skills with Railgun, and my aim is still only good when I'm fully warmed up, and only on 1 map. Also, being able to sneak up on someone is beneficial to the game, so making it impossible is harmful.

On 11/10/2020 at 11:32 AM, Maf said:

I have a hard time believing that mouse controls are the reason these players are landing these shots, rather than just sheer skill.

It isn't hard to hit 360/180 shots at short — medium range when you know where the enemy is. But it is impossible to hit an enemy that just popped out behind you with a 180 when you didn't even see him (you couldn't see with keyboard controls). Also, doing mid — long range spin shots is so hard that even the best keyboard players aren't very consistent with it.

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Did they then tell you that they were using mouse controls? Or did you just assume?

Actually, it is quite obvious when someone is using mouse. I sometimes ask and I have never been wrong yet.

[Maf 32,321]

11 minutes ago, Picassoo said:

Also, being able to sneak up on someone is beneficial to the game, so making it impossible is harmful.

Then you should be asking for removal of HTML5 radar

[Maf 32,321]

27 minutes ago, Picassoo said:

But it is impossible to hit an enemy that just popped out behind you with a 180 when you didn't even see him (you couldn't see with keyboard controls).

You never know. People are pretty good at predicting their enemy's movements. I still don't think mouse controls give a significant advantage in format battles, but regardless of what you and I think, this issue is not something developers will dedicate any time to.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Prefer not using mouse controls.  Camera moves much faster than the turret.

[Picassoo 191]

8 hours ago, Maf said:

You never know. People are pretty good at predicting their enemy's movements. I still don't think mouse controls give a significant advantage in format battles, but regardless of what you and I think, this issue is not something developers will dedicate any time to.

Impossible to pull off consistently. I tried out mouse just now BTW. Even though my overall aim became a bit worse due to lack of practice, spin shots became very easy.

13 hours ago, Maf said:

Then you should be asking for removal of HTML5 radar

I do agree, but not before mouse is balanced. Otherwise it will get even more of an edge.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

I agree that mouse controls give players who use them an advantage over keyboard players. But I don't think the solution is to impose restrictions. Instead, more players should be encouraged to switch to mouse controls.

[Spy 14,870]

Declined

At this point, the developers are clearly in favor of mouse players over keyboard players. You can tell easily if you look at the hovering hulls - they were made especially for mouse users. But not only that, the newer players started playing with mouse controls, they might quit if the developers would nerf the only input they are used to.

[alkyng 3,080]

I can understand that Mouse players assuming that they deserve this advantages because it doesn't work with keyboard and they have an advantage over us because they learnt the mouse controls. And yeah telling us who prefer the keyboard "if you see it's OP, switch to Mouse controls".

Though my reservation on this sentence, I can accept it somehow if there wasn't the Hovering hulls.. Because hovering hulls with mouse controls isn't a thing or a hard thing to make them having an advantage over us. I haven't took a second to get accustomed with Hovering hull/Mouse controls, but with normal hulls it's really hard for the one who accustomed with keyboard (and it's our rights because this is what the Tanki is).

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