Do the Devs even realize that their new "cool" ideas are ruining the game?

[EmeraldCat 562]

21 hours ago, ThirdOnion said:

It may seem counter-intuitive, but I think that team-oriented ODs in general are bad for the game. It is impossible to force players to work as a team. Furthermore, you cannot choose who your teammates are. Introducing a mechanic that greatly rewards cooperation results in extremely lopsided matches. If your teammates cooperate, you will be able to exploit that mechanic to steamroll the other team. If the players on your team don't work together, your team will be steamrolled. It is possible to argue that that is how it should be - the more cohesive team should win. But by how large a margin? Giving a small reward for teamwork results in overall more competitive (and therefore more fun) matches, as the better organized team will have a smaller advantage. Giving an excessive reward for teamwork (such as Zero Supply) results in blowout matches, where the more organized team absolutely dominates the other. In a game where you cannot choose your teammates the former option is more desirable. I don't want to get obliterated just because my teammates can't group up together to press a button.

ODs are now an integral game mechanic like any other. Strategically using your OD in my opinion is comparable to timing your shots, movement, etc.

The thing is though, the teams are always randomized, in matchmaking that is, meaning, there wouldn't be any exploiting if you're given a new team every time. To be fair, Tanki's current state is making it to where your chances of seeing the same person in your team is higher, and I think they should upgrade the randomization feature, so, if Zero Supplies was added back, there would definitely be exploiting. I think I'd prefer a game where you and 7 others are randomly paired against another team of 8, with an OD the same as everyone, and the tank combo you decided to use for battle, and the game is won depending on how well your team works together and how skilled the players are. Currently, matches are won buy players who have drones, overdrives, and augments. Mainly buyers. Most of the time, it's because of one player that turns the tide of the battle. The reason why old Tanki Gameplay was better is because no one had to rely on that kinda stuff before. Usually if you had a stronger tank and supplies, you'd have the advantage, but that didn't mean you were un-killable. You could still be taken down. Now you have a game where you can drop bombs that destroy any tank, a shield that practically makes you immortal, an EMP disabling you of your movement, supplies, and shooting You got a hull that allows you to activate jump hacks, which were previously banned in the game. The only skill I see is when an OD is up against an OD. I think the only strategy I see in ODs are making your enemy waste theirs so that you can use your weapon of mass destruction.

[OUTAMYWAY 48]

On 12/13/2020 at 4:57 AM, Emeraldcat345 said:

Gauss: There is no denying that it's in desperate need of fixing.

Gauss EMP: That's literally what all games would do if they got rid of an item people spent money on. I'm sure if Tanki didn't decide to refund players if they deleted something, they'd probably get sued.

Hover Hull: They make no sense with the current game, and were created for the sole purpose of helping mobile and making money, which could've been fixed without affecting game mechanics.

1. What is wrong with Gauss specifically?

2. Definitely agree. This augment is the biggest gripe I have with the Tanki developers (and I am cool with most of the annoying stuff implemented recently). Its only counter is that it cannot be bought with in-game currency (though if you were to buy 245K crystal it works out to 40-50 euros). However it is incredibly unbalanced as it doesnt remove splash damage or splash EMP in "sniping" mode (its primary problematic mode). Its a utter joke and I'm happy I don't come across it more often.

3. I like the premise of the Hopper and Ares. It may have been fixed another way but I like the variation. However, the Hopper could have been thought through better. The maps are carefully constructed to make no one place unassailable, often with multiple angles open for attack. The Hopper breaks this rule with smart players jumping onto buildings or even behind the borders of some maps where it is impossible to engage them. A Magnum in such a position would ruin most match types. Only Hopper does this and changes should be its more extreme uses as extremes have always been eliminated in other turrets and hulls.

Also, wtf is with Hopper having a stun ability?

Edited December 14, 2020 by OUTAMYWAY
addition

[E_polypterus 2,374]

1 hour ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

I'd rather have Magnum

Play a Silence or Serpuhov CTF and see... Mines everywhere.

1 hour ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

turret that has 7 features from other turrets already in the game.

what are the 7 features?

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

14 hours ago, Picassoo said:

I'll be even more radical by saying that Magnum should be deleted, protection modules as well and there should be no OD at all.

Magnum needs to be "banned" on certain maps...........like the original Noise, and maybe even Arena.

But yeah, I agree with @Emeraldcat345, Magnum's pretty unique and if the map has a leveled elevation for its playing field, it's pretty balanced. Although, i do suggest the developers nerf the reload on higher modifications of Magnum.

Also, Protection Modules........they can be kept.....they're a necessity for matchmaking battles.

But, like @MysticBlood posted a day or 2 ago, we definitely need an option to disable Protection Modules in certain pro battles. They're just annoying when you're facing a buyer who owns every module against every turret you own.


And yep, the game was fine with no Overdrives. It was still fine with the original overdrive because it helped people with no-supplies somewhat.
But to be honest, I wouldn't care if the game ended up with either no overdrives or the original overdrive. As long as I don't keep getting blown up by nukes or getting flags stolen by Hoppers, I'm fine.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, Emeraldcat345 said:

I'd rather have Magnum then a turret that has 7 features from other turrets already in the game. As long as we don't have more artillery turrets in the game, I see Magnum as a worthy turret for Tanki Online.

We don't need new Artillery Turrets because, to be honest, any idea for an artillery turret seems better implemented as an Alteration for Magnum XD

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, OUTAMYWAY said:

1. What is wrong with Gauss specifically?

Everything.
It's Striker but faster target acquisition time AND longer memory when targeting enemies.
It's Thunder but longer range AND a quick sniping ability.
It's Shaft but you can snipe enemies WHILE MOVING. And massive splash damage. Oh, and there's no laser sight while sniping, so enemies won't know you're aiming at them unless they look directly at you.

Overall......it's overpowered. It makes the three aforementioned turrets almost obsolete in MM battles.

 

Just now, OUTAMYWAY said:

Also, wtf is with Hopper having a stun ability?

I believe it was because developers gave it unnecessary, overpowered abilities like stunning and burning to persuade buyers to buy the hull when it was in the "Early Access Stage".
When the hull was first released, for like 2 weeks or so I believe, the only way you could obtain it was by paying 130 or 140 US Dollars.

By the way, that 130-something dollars only gave you Hopper Mk2 by the way. You needed to spend extra crystals to upgrade it.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Tanker-Arthur

[Picassoo 191]

2 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

The modules bring more strategy to the game, the current ones that is. The way I see it, I don't put on a specific Module depending on the enemies, I use the same 3 for every game. Mainly because my main 3 turrets are Firebird, Vulcan, and Shaft, I can have 3 protections just for those. There's no need to change modules in the middle of the game just because someone is kicking your butt.

There is an element of strategy but still modules have a negative impact on the game. Was better in the past when you had to choose between a few fixed sets and have a lot of protection against one turret and less against others but now it is just about choosing modules against tanks you encounter the most and prioritizing enemies that have no prot against you.

Quote

I'd rather have Magnum then a turret that has 7 features from other turrets already in the game. As long as we don't have more artillery turrets in the game, I see Magnum as a worthy turret for Tanki Online.

I'm afraid you don't look at the game in an analytical sort of way. Just being unique is no reason to add something. You need to analyze how it will impact gameplay, and Magnum has a negative impact on it

[EmeraldCat 562]

15 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

Play a Silence or Serpuhov CTF and see... Mines everywhere.

what are the 7 features?

Striker's salvo feature, the literal fact that it was based off to be a better Thunder(Reload/Damage), Shaft's incredibly long ranged sniping mode and insanely fast bullets and the arcade shots, Magnum's high splash damage and damage and high impact force, Terminator's feature to have visual changes to the turret when going into Salvo mode. I was being a little dramatic, but here are 5. ; )

So, you're simply complaining about Magnum just because you can't hide in your own base without getting shot? The whole point of Magnum is to deal with artillery. What makes Magnum hard to use, is that a distanced well aimed shot is quite hard. It takes time finding the best position and angle. A Magnum camping is basically a Shaft camping. You can't enter a specific location or you'll just get destroyed. Magnum's weakness being, most of the time, it can't see what's behind all the buildings, unless it has a Hornet OD. Which is why a red laser for Magnum is not needed. Gauss on the other hand deals as much damage as Magnum, and you can't even see if a Gauss is aiming at you from afar, and when you do notice the Gauss, it is already 1 second in at charging at you. You're dead one second later. Plus, it has high splash damage, so your buddies who decided to group up with you are as good as dead.

Also, are you seriously saying that the Mine Alt for Magnum is more overpowered than the Gauss alt? An alteration that allows you to drop mines from shooting, versus an augment that literally destroys your supplies in 2 seconds. I'll let you think about that one.

[OUTAMYWAY 48]

16 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

 It makes the three aforementioned turrets almost obsolete in MM battles.

 

I believe it was because developers gave it unnecessary, overpowered abilities like stunning and burning to persuade buyers to buy the hull when it was in the "Early Access Stage".

1)I guess you have a point, i just dont think so because i dont have the skill to use one well. They are annoying, but you need the advantages the beat a well hunkered down shaft. 

2) Oh i know WHY they did it, i just was wondering if there was an actual reason to balance the game. Personally i just love the way they go flying when they die. its so satisfying, plus quite a lot are new so its like shooting fish in a barrel

[EmeraldCat 562]

15 hours ago, Picassoo said:

There is an element of strategy but still modules have a negative impact on the game. Was better in the past when you had to choose between a few fixed sets and have a lot of protection against one turret and less against others but now it is just about choosing modules against tanks you encounter the most and prioritizing enemies that have no prot against you.

I'm afraid you don't look at the game in an analytical sort of way. Just being unique is no reason to add something. You need to analyze how it will impact gameplay, and Magnum has a negative impact on it

The new modules gave players the ability to have more customization options over their tank. Paints restricted that. If I wanted 3 modules, Shaft, Vulcan, and Firebird, but Tanki didn't have a paint for that, I would be highly disappointed. I really enjoy the the new modules, and they don't need changes.

Now, here's your problem. You hate Modules because everyone in Legend Ranks has a Railgun protection at 50%. Even you use Railgun protection most of the time. The problem is, Tanki doesn't know how to balance out turrets, so most players are going to choose the modules for the most overpowered turret. Another problem is, the Devs have files for all the turrets and they tell everyone which turret was the most used turret of each year. Every year being Railgun. It's a popular gun, and it's misleading to the point where people think it's too overpowered. So, now we got Railgun protections everywhere.

I suggest you use a different turret other than Railgun. Smoky is underrated but it multiplies in power by 3 times M0-M4. I don't see many protection modules with Smoky.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, OUTAMYWAY said:

1)I guess you have a point, i just dont think so because i dont have the skill to use one well. They are annoying, but you need the advantages the beat a well hunkered down shaft. 

True. A shaft with a drone or several supporting teammates can be seemingly unkillable.

Just now, OUTAMYWAY said:

2) Oh i know WHY they did it, i just was wondering if there was an actual reason to balance the game. Personally i just love the way they go flying when they die. its so satisfying, plus quite a lot are new so its like shooting fish in a barrel

XD
Well, I think the reason why Hopper needs to be nerfed for game balance is the fact that it stuns enemies. The stunning ability was supposed to be unique to Hunter, but now that Hopper has it, it means everyone has to look out for twice as many enemies that can stun others. 

Also, Hopper is crazily overpowered on CTF and RGB modes. You can jump away with the flag/jump into the enemy's goal with the ball super easily if you have the right supplies and drones equipped.

[TheRealHZFJ 707]

7 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

True. A shaft with a drone or several supporting teammates can be seemingly unkillable.

XD
Well, I think the reason why Hopper needs to be nerfed for game balance is the fact that it stuns enemies. The stunning ability was supposed to be unique to Hunter, but now that Hopper has it, it means everyone has to look out for twice as many enemies that can stun others. 

Also, Hopper is crazily overpowered on CTF and RGB modes. You can jump away with the flag/jump into the enemy's goal with the ball super easily if you have the right supplies and drones equipped.

Well removing stun will kinda make Hopper more unique...right now it feels like a jumping tank which gives status effects

[ReptilianTroll 236]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:50 AM, Emeraldcat345 said:

Tanki should have never been a mobile game in the first place. Granted, I thought of the idea years ago because sometimes I never had access to my computer, so, I understand why Tanki decided to add it, but they're "biting off more than they can chew" they are taking on challenges that they can't even complete. For one, if controls are so hard for mobile players and the Devs can't fix the controls, then the alternative isn't to add new hulls, it's to scrap that idea and move on with life. I recommend they try and fix the controls, instead of adding things that don't make sense to the game. Another thing to do is to separate mobile players with computer players. That way, things are a lot more fair controls wise.

As for the Mark system, there was nothing wrong with the Modification system, I believe that the rank requirements and pricings were perfectly fine, and the time it took to micro upgrade was fine as well. The Devs just decided to make things longer to upgrade. Plus, each Modification had its own unique look to the equipment, which was another thing that made people happy to wanna even upgrade their equipment... Until the Devs decided to get rid of the M0-M2 designs. Now everyone looks the same, isn't that great? To look cooler, spend money to buy an XT container and get a skin for a turret you don't even use. Amazing right?

First off, there was nothing wrong with Magnum's controls, it was the same as rotating your turret. Just us Z and X. The reason why Magnum got changed was because people were complaining they weren't good at Magnum, it's not like they trained with Magnum and attempted to master its ability, they had no excuse to convert Magnum to a horizontal rotating turret. Like I said, if Tanki's only option was to add things into the game that changes gameplay and makes no sense, like hovering hulls and Magnums special vertical rotation ability, then mobile shouldn't exist for Tanki Online. Or, the Devs can keep figuring out how to fix mobile controls.  Another good idea would be to separate mobile players from computer players, that way, you'll play with players who have the same controls as you, and the game won't be ruined. You ever wonder why they don't do sales on shop items in events? It's because on mobile, the Google Play Store doesn't allow discounts on in-game prices. PC Tanki never had this problem.

Can't wait to see what other problems mobile Tanki brings to the game.

"Can't wait to see what other problems mobile Tanki brings to the game. " Hilarious!

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

23 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

The thing is though, the teams are always randomized, in matchmaking that is, meaning, there wouldn't be any exploiting if you're given a new team every time.

That's not what I mean. I mean that if you are matched with players who use their Zero Supply ODs selfishly while the enemy team works together and chains their ODs, you will get absolutely dominated. My point is that excessively rewarding teamwork doesn't make sense in a game where you can't choose your teams and in which players are not always motivated to win. Zero Supply gives too great a reward for too little teamwork. That's my main problem with it. As I said before, I don't want to lose horribly just because my teammates can't group up together and press a button while the other team can.

23 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

I think I'd prefer a game where you and 7 others are randomly paired against another team of 8, with an OD the same as everyone, and the tank combo you decided to use for battle, and the game is won depending on how well your team works together and how skilled the players are. Currently, matches are won buy players who have drones, overdrives, and augments. Mainly buyers. Most of the time, it's because of one player that turns the tide of the battle.

I agree that teams should be evenly matched equipment-wise and that the current matchmaker is pretty terrible in this regard. But what is wrong with players having drones, ODs, and augments, so long as they are evenly matched? There is no issue if the players on both teams have drones and augments, and everyone has access to ODs.

23 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

Usually if you had a stronger tank and supplies, you'd have the advantage, but that didn't mean you were un-killable. You could still be taken down.

I would argue that this is still the case. In fact in my opinion there is no combo in the game that is unkillable, at least at higher ranks. The problems arise when there are multiple OP combos in a single match. When a group of players with OP equipment works together, then they are unstoppable. This is another reason as to why I am opposed to mechanics that give too great a reward for a small amount of teamwork. A few players that use meta combos that do not collaborate can still be dealt with. But if those same players teamed up with each other AND were rewarded with even greater power for doing so (for example, if they coordinated their Zero Supply activations), they would absolutely dominate. ODs that only benefit one player are better because they don't allow a group of players to become too powerful by working together.

23 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

The only skill I see is when an OD is up against an OD. I think the only strategy I see in ODs are making your enemy waste theirs so that you can use your weapon of mass destruction.

Yes. In my opinion TO is not a game about aiming or driving - that is, mechanical skill. It's not an extremely fast-paced twitchy shooter where you need split-second reaction times or good aim. Instead, it is about timing your abilities and activating them at the right time, countering your enemies' abilities, and building an equipment setup most relevant to the current situation. TO is more like an action RPG or even a turn-based game rather than a traditional shooter. You need to manage reload times, supply cooldowns, drone abilities, and ODs; and select equipment in order to best deal with the modules other players have, the map you are playing on, and the equipment setup of other players.

ODs fit into this model very well. They add an extra layer of strategy to the game. You have to take into account the OD situation of the enemy team and your team and act accordingly. Prioritize killing Dictators. Bait Titans into using their ODs prematurely. If you under a Titan's dome and see an enemy Wasp coming your way, push it out of the dome, even if it means that you end up dying, so that the bomb blast doesn't kill your teammates. If an enemy Viking has activated OD and there is a group of your teammates who are at risk of getting destroyed, drive out into the Viking's line of fire. If an enemy Titan has used its dome and you are using Smoky, fire at it a few times even though it is invulnerable in order to increase your critical hit chance.

Edited December 15, 2020 by ThirdOnion

[wolverine848 13,097]

21 hours ago, Picassoo said:

There is an element of strategy but still modules have a negative impact on the game. Was better in the past when you had to choose between a few fixed sets and have a lot of protection against one turret and less against others but now it is just about choosing modules against tanks you encounter the most and prioritizing enemies that have no prot against you.

When paints had protections there were fewer turrets in the game.

Only buyers could keep up with adding more paint combos to cover new turrets.

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

 

So, you're simply complaining about Magnum just because you can't hide in your own base without getting shot? The whole point of Magnum is to deal with artillery. 

Also, are you seriously saying that the Mine Alt for Magnum is more overpowered than the Gauss alt? An alteration that allows you to drop mines from shooting, versus an augment that literally destroys your supplies in 2 seconds. I'll let you think about that one.

Maps in TO, for the most part were designed for LOS turrets.  If you want to target a flag area, or a cap-point area you needed to put yourself in some danger.  Magnums don't have to do that.  Take Siege for example.  Anyone can see where the cap-point is and just start targeting there. See some damage numbers, hit shift, and you viking-magnum will kill everyone that is not protected by a titan dome (and that also does not have broken armor).

?   Magnum IS artillery.

Both are quite bad.  Magnum-mortar misses the target, does splash damage, and still lays a mine.  That is just dumb.  Either lay a mine or hit target.  None of this hedging crap.  And Gauss EMP should not be doing snipe damage.  Again... is it an EMP shot or a high-explosive shot?

49 minutes ago, ThirdOnion said:

ODs fit into this model very well. They add an extra layer of strategy to the game. You have to take into account the OD situation of the enemy team and your team and act accordingly. Prioritize killing Dictators. Bait Titans into using their ODs prematurely. If you under a Titan's dome and see an enemy Wasp coming your way, push it out of the dome, even if it means that you end up dying, so that the bomb blast doesn't kill your teammates. If an enemy Viking has activated OD and there is a group of your teammates who are at risk of getting destroyed, drive out into the Viking's line of fire. If an enemy Titan has used its dome and you are using Smoky, fire at it a few times even though it is invulnerable in order to increase your critical hit chance.

ODs add too much impact to the game.  They are available way too often, through ridiculous charge rates, the supply drops, or Dictators.  There's tanks I've seen in battles that seem like they have OD 24/7.  It's too much.  They are not really strategic anymore.  Not a fan...

[ReptilianTroll 236]

3 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Maps in TO, for the most part were designed for LOS turrets.  If you want to target a flag area, or a cap-point area you needed to put yourself in some danger.  Magnums don't have to do that.  Take Siege for example.  Anyone can see where the cap-point is and just start targeting there. See some damage numbers, hit shift, and you viking-magnum will kill everyone that is not protected by a titan dome (and that also does not have broken armor).

?   Magnum IS artillery.

Both are quite bad.  Magnum-mortar misses the target, does splash damage, and still lays a mine.  That is just dumb.  Either lay a mine or hit target.  None of this hedging crap.  And Gauss EMP should not be doing snipe damage.  Again... is it an EMP shot or a high-explosive shot?

ODs add too much impact to the game.  They are available way too often, through ridiculous charge rates, the supply drops, or Dictators.  There's tanks I've seen in battles that seem like they have OD 24/7.  It's too much.  They are not really strategic anymore.  Not a fan...

if you were a developer, what would you do, nerf Magnum, or remove it from the game?

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 minutes ago, ReptilianTroll said:

if you were a developer, what would you do, nerf Magnum, or remove it from the game?

Would never have added it to the game.  I mean... might as well add air strikes too, right?

How can it be removed from the game now?  Don't see how....

So at least fix mortar, and if a shot misses it lays a mine.  But no splash damage.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, wolverine848 said:

Both are quite bad.  Magnum-mortar misses the target, does splash damage, and still lays a mine.  That is just dumb.  Either lay a mine or hit target.  None of this hedging crap.  And Gauss EMP should not be doing snipe damage.  Again... is it an EMP shot or a high-explosive shot?

Agreed. Sadly, Tanki developers no longer consider them as "Alterations", so I doubt we'd be getting any nerfs soon.

Any alteration that was overpowered before the Augments update will probably stay overpowered, while alterations that were "balanced" or underpowered before the update were buffed....on the update. (April 2020)

Edited December 15, 2020 by Tanker-Arthur

[ReptilianTroll 236]

17 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Would never have added it to the game.  I mean... might as well add air strikes too, right?

How can it be removed from the game now?  Don't see how....

So at least fix mortar, and if a shot misses it lays a mine.  But no splash damage.

I get your point, but do you think they could nerf it to the point where Magnum's unique shooting over walls advantage doesn't make it OP? Right now magnum destroys a viking in 2 shots. What if it was 4 shots instead, or even 6, and they also increased the reload time? This would significantly nerf it, and its unique advantage of shooting over obstacles wouldn't be OP anymore.

Edited December 15, 2020 by ReptilianTroll

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, ReptilianTroll said:

if you were a developer, what would you do, nerf Magnum, or remove it from the game?

Nerf Magnum
It's an interesting concept for a turret and it deserves to stay. I honestly believe turrets should never be deleted. Just nerfed, buffed, or reworked entirely (like with Vulcan earlier this year).

A big thing about it is, Magnum doesn't warrant a removal because its too late for that.

If we wanted to remove it, we should've done it sometime in 2017, back when it was just released. 

But now, after 3 years, players have grown on it and thus, removing it will anger a bunch of Magnum users.

Also, because unlike stuff like Augments and Crisis Drones, everyone can use Magnum freely. Not just buyers.




On the other hand, removing things like Augments (Not alterations by the way) are most likely going to be generally loved by the community, as Augments are considered by lots to be purposely overpowered and unbalanced, and to be honest, augments are just for buyers. The non-buyer will have to save around 20-25 months worth of tankcoins (depends on how often they finish challenges and weekly missions) to get the Hull Augment they want. Or, hope, the developers randomly put it in the challenge (which by the way, is usually on the gold pass track, so non-buyers still have to save 2 months worth of tankcoins AND complete tiers of the gold pass to obtain the augment).

[Picassoo 191]

3 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

When paints had protections there were fewer turrets in the game.

Only buyers could keep up with adding more paint combos to cover new turrets.

This is true, fixing this is just a matter of altering prices

[Picassoo 191]

3 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

How can it be removed from the game now?  Don't see how....

Actually it has been available for in the garage, not as an exclusive shot item, so owners could simply get a refund in crystals

Wouldn't that be nice :T

[wolverine848 13,097]

8 hours ago, Picassoo said:

This is true, fixing this is just a matter of altering prices

Just too many combos now to make it feasible.

They'd never lower prices enough to make it possible for F2P tankers.

The module system allows TO to add as many turrets as they want without complicating things (protection-wise).

8 hours ago, Picassoo said:

Actually it has been available for in the garage, not as an exclusive shot item, so owners could simply get a refund in crystals

Wouldn't that be nice :T

they've only ever done that once to my knowledge, and that was due to a massive change.  Doubt it ever happens again.