valid hornet OD & AP augments rework

[mjmj5558 2,346]

Let's start from the begining: hornet OD was really powerfull, that's why players asked for a nerf, and it was finally nerfed - sadly, with the nerf, AP augments for turrets arrived, and they can do the same thing that hornet could do - but they can do it anytime, and all enemies can deal full damage to you. Also, crusadier seems to be a better alternative for hornet, because it destroys the armour of enemies, but also deals damage to the and freeze them. So i think it's time to make hornet balanced - not too weak or strong with any turret, and i will also modify the AP augments to make them more balanced to go up against. 

General changes:

• AP effect will be divided into 2 parts: normal AP ( ignoring DA) and special AP (ignoring extra defences, like domes, extra armour)
• You can still protect yourselves from both of these status effects with AP immunity 
  Spoiler

  My original plan was to divide the immunity to 2 parts too, so no one could get 100% protection from any OD. I asked some friends about it, some of them said I should do it, some of them said i shouldn't. They said normal AP immunity would be useless, and they are probably right. Write down your opinion, so i can modify this part of the suggestion if necesarry.

Changes to AP turret augments:

• They will only ignore the DA of their enemies, not extra defences, so they can only apply the normal AP status effect.
• The ones that have a damage nerf will have higher damage than now, but their damage will be still lower with about 5-10% than normal

Changes to hornet OD:

It will be reworked completely:

• It can ignore alll defences of their enemies, but only they can ignore it, not their teammates. You can still protect yourself with AP immunity.
• New mechanism: 
  Spoiler

  Most of the players complained about 2 types of hornets before it was nerfed: the ones who camped and turrets with splash damage. I will solve this.

  So, first of all, the method how hornet APs the enemies: the front and the back of it has scensors, that can put the effect on enemies. It's hard to describe it, so i created two imagines: 

  Spoiler

  

  Here, my turret is turned to the front, so it can AP enemies (if the OD is activated) if they are in the yellow zone.

  

  Here, my turret is near to the back side of the hull, so it could AP enemies there if the OD would be active.

  Why is this good? Simple: if you camp behind something, your turret is most likely turned. With this modification of hornet OD, campers most come out behind wall, turn their hull to apply the effect on you. This will make it harder for campers to uuse the OD, while people who are out of building can use it free, but you are able to deal damage to the, countering the OD.
  Note: I think a max range should be added to the AP zone (i call the area with the yellow borders AP zone), which equals with the max range of the turret. So for example, a fire-hornet can't AP an enemy in the other side of the map, but a shaft can.

• ugh, those gauss hornets..... are no longer OP with this rework! Hornet will only be able to apply the AP effect for 1 tank every 3 seconds. that means that no turrets will be able to kill a full dome with the OD

• the AP ability of hornet will last for 15s (that means you won't be able to AP enemies after 15s of active time)

• visual change: the enemy who was APd will have a purple outline (this will be only visible for the user)( it will have the color of AP status effect icon)

TL/DR 

Turret augments AP can only ignore DA.Hornet can AP enemies in its front or back, depending where your turret faces. It can AP 1 enemy every 3s, and it will no longer be able to AP tanks after 15s. The AP effect will be private, means that the enemies are only armourless for the user, not for his/her teammates.

Edited January 7, 2021 by mjmj5558
Added the note

[Thiedes 1,106]

Under review

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

Best suggestion i've seen all year.

The AP effect will be private, means that the enemies are only armourless for the user, not for his/her teammates.

         

[mjmj5558 2,346]

16 minutes ago, SONIC-BOOM said:

Best suggestion i've seen all year.

The AP effect will be private, means that the enemies are only armourless for the user, not for his/her teammates.

         

Yeah, we need this because 

• Hornet allies could deal damage to the tank even after the hornet died
• Most allies started focusing on that tank -> kill stealing

[alkyng 3,080]

The biggest problem in the game, that they uniformed everything by "States" or indicators.

Hunter OD, converted to a stunning effect and EMP effect... Firebird afterburn turned into the same thing also

This is very malicious thing and disgusting, now they just gave Gauss the EMP character, automatically for 5 seconds.

Vulcan can do the same afterburn for Firebird.

Hornett, ruined it, converted to AP state effect, ahh very annoying, disgusting.

[wolverine848 13,097]

15 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

Turret augments AP can only ignore DA.Hornet can AP enemies in its front or back, depending where your turret faces. It can AP 1 enemy every 3s, and it will no longer be able to AP tanks after 15s. The AP effect will be private, means that the enemies are only armourless for the user, not for his/her teammates.

I don't see how you can work that "1 enemy every 3s".  What if there's 4 in front of it - which one gets "AP"d?

 

[Catbird 117]

If Hornet's AP effect becomes directional, I'm concerned it would be very difficult to use with some turrets. I understand the interest of specifically nerfing Gauss, but I feel like it would nerf even more the other turrets. It would make it very difficult to use with Shaft for instance. And the rail-hornet format which has already been nerfed significantly by the latest rework would be nerfed even more, as it would require the user not only to be in the line of sight of the target but also facing towards it.

Furthermore, if there is only one enemy with the AP effect, and you are the only person that can hit them, it seems to me it would become a lot easier for enemies to survive the AP effect; just hide from the hornet in question and voila, no one else can touch you. As I understand it, Crusader's OD is effective at having a directional AP effect because it simultaneously deals damage to the target. Here with Hornet, the player would have to 1) aim the OD right and 2) deal damage, having no other potential target to shoot at instead if they miss.

Personally, I much prefer that Hornet makes an enemy tank armorless for everyone on your team. It's very interesting strategically, especially since it makes it possible to guarantee the death of a critical enemy player like the flag/ball bearer for instance.

Maybe having the hornet OD affecting only a single enemy at once and having the ability to use several times in close succession could be interesting, but then I think then it should be dependent on the turret orientation, not the hull orientation.

[alkyng 3,080]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

I don't see how you can work that "1 enemy every 3s".  What if there's 4 in front of it - which one gets "AP"d?

Depend in your heart what the one you mean

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 1/7/2021 at 5:58 AM, wolverine848 said:

I don't see how you can work that "1 enemy every 3s".  What if there's 4 in front of it - which one gets "AP"d?

 

I couldn't take a picture where there are 4 tanks, but here is an example: 

Spoiler

Let's say they are enemies.

It will AP the titan-gauss, because it's the nearest one. The OD will proritize the nearest one, or if the distance is eqaul, the tank which is closer to the center of the AP zone will get APd.

I also added a note that can increase the effectiveness of melee-hornet combos.

On 1/6/2021 at 2:25 PM, mjmj5558 said:

Note: I think a max range should be added to the AP zone (i call the area with the yellow borders AP zone), which equals with the max range of the turret. So for example, a fire-hornet can't AP an enemy in the other side of the map, but a shaft can.

 

On 1/7/2021 at 6:21 AM, Catbird said:

If Hornet's AP effect becomes directional, I'm concerned it would be very difficult to use with some turrets. I understand the interest of specifically nerfing Gauss, but I feel like it would nerf even more the other turrets. It would make it very difficult to use with Shaft for instance. And the rail-hornet format which has already been nerfed significantly by the latest rework would be nerfed even more, as it would require the user not only to be in the line of sight of the target but also facing towards it.

The most important factor of this idea that it will make the od better for turrets that can shoot 1 enemy with 1 shot. And yes, you won't be able to camp with the OD effectively, since before the hornet nerf, a lot of players complained about hornet-campers, because they could ignore the protection of everyone, but you couldn't shoot them because they only came out from the wall when they shoot. Also, I am a shaft-hornet user, and i can guarantee that it will be better with the OD i suggested than with the current OD (if you use the combo properly).

 

On 1/7/2021 at 6:21 AM, Catbird said:

Furthermore, if there is only one enemy with the AP effect, and you are the only person that can hit them, it seems to me it would become a lot easier for enemies to survive the AP effect; just hide from the hornet in question and voila, no one else can touch you. As I understand it, Crusader's OD is effective at having a directional AP effect because it simultaneously deals damage to the target. Here with Hornet, the player would have to 1) aim the OD right and 2) deal damage, having no other potential target to shoot at instead if they miss.

I just want to remind you that before the nerf, only the user could ignore the armour of the enemies, and it worked perfectly (too perfectly?). As soon as you activate the current hornet OD on an enemy, your allies will start shooting that tank too, so probably you won't be able to kill that tanki, so you can't get score from your OD. If you use hornet for driving around the map and killing, you will be able to use the OD i suggested perfectly, but the enemies can deal damage to you, countering your OD, so this will make hornet one of the most balanced hull. If you are camping with hornet - o wait - hornet is a light hull, and it's not for camping.

Edited January 8, 2021 by mjmj5558

[Mirza7 235]

My worst nightmare gauss mk8 with AP aug.

_{How do I buy this with crystals}

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:25 AM, mjmj5558 said:

• AP effect will be divided into 2 parts: normal AP ( ignoring DA) and special AP (ignoring extra defences, like domes, extra armour)
• You can still protect yourselves from both of these status effects with AP immunity 

 

On 1/6/2021 at 8:25 AM, mjmj5558 said:

• They will only ignore the DA of their enemies, not extra defences, so they can only apply the normal AP status effect.
• The ones that have a damage nerf will have higher damage than now, but their damage will be still lower with about 5-10% than normal

For AP Immunity, only your protection module will be unscathed.

[EmeraldCat 562]

I dislike the whole concept of AP. I say get rid of the AP Augments and Hornet's AP OD, and give an AP effect for Railgun only. Because Railgun would actually make sense for having an AP ability, since it LITERALLY pierces through an entire tank. Pierces through any tank as a matter of fact. But that is just a small idea of mine. I still hate AP, so, I say get rid of it.

[Spy 14,854]

Status changed to Valid.