Why is ricochet and hornet so weak compared with other turrets and hulls?

[raze_avenger 221]

I dont know about you guys but the balance in this game is screwed to the point of not even playing. I have been playing my ricochet mk7 10/20 for quite a bit now and i have noticed that it is completely underpowered compared with other turrets like gauss, railgun, thunder, hammer etc. There are literal 5k gs people making quick work out of my tank which is 7k gs and it doesn't make sense. I would rather be that person with 5k gs with gauss than 7k gs with ricochet. The literal only thing that makes ricochet good is the plasms torch which is mad expensive and thats about it. 

Now about the hornet, the armor piercing effect literally does nothing. I see no difference in using that od and its usefulness pales in comparison to hunter and viking od. The only thing useful about it is that you can see people from across the map which is honestly not that good of an advantage since most people i see nowadays are legends who pay $1000 to get a 9999gs. All hornet is is just a useless pile of hp for the enemy to farm and it literally gets destroyed by weaker modifications without a sweat.  

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Hornet's OD will only inflict AP on enemies in line of sight. Perhaps you are activating it when there are few or no enemies in view?

I don't have much experience playing Ricochet but playing against it is very frustrating. With Minus-Field Stabilization it even seems overpowered to me. While Gauss is certainly overpowered and Railgun is broken, I don't feel that Ricochet is weaker than Thunder or Hammer.

Edited March 5, 2021 by ThirdOnion

[raze_avenger 221]

3 minutes ago, ThirdOnion said:

Hornet's OD will only inflict AP on enemies in line of sight. Perhaps you are activating it when there are few or no enemies in view?

I don't have any experience playing Ricochet but playing against it is very frustrating. With Minus-Field Stabilization it even seems overpowered to me. While Gauss is certainly overpowered and Railgun is broken, I don't feel that Ricochet is weaker than Thunder or Hammer.

I haven't used any augment with ricochet except plasma torch so i have no say on that part. But it sucks against heavily armored targets and fast ones like hopper when i activate my hornet od the hp of the enemy goes down so slowly. (Plus if you have protection against ricochet it barely does any damage) Thunder with sub caliber rounds will shred your tank and hammer with dragon breath will remove you in 3 or less shots.  

and yes i activate my hornet od when there is a lot of ppl around. No matter how i use it i keep doing the standard 300 hp of damage to a tank with or without the od on

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

9 minutes ago, raze_avenger said:

I haven't used any augment with ricochet except plasma torch so i have no say on that part. But it sucks against heavily armored targets and fast ones like hopper when i activate my hornet od the hp of the enemy goes down so slowly. (Plus if you have protection against ricochet it barely does any damage) Thunder with sub caliber rounds will shred your tank and hammer with dragon breath will remove you in 3 or less shots.  

and yes i activate my hornet od when there is a lot of ppl around. No matter how i use it i keep doing the standard 300 hp of damage to a tank with or without the od on

Max your fave combo out with a preferred drone of your choice, and very important, get better protection modules.

MK7 10/20 is very weak, especially at your rank were you are going to go up against legends at some point.

I'm not being critical of your garage, just stating facts why you are struggling against players you yourself expect to beat. Low rank does not mean weak player, not if they are P2W.

You have fallen into the trap the devs have made for you, you are just ranking way to quickly without having the means to upgrade the majority of your garage to at least MK6 (MAX)

By your rank everything you use should be max MK6, with at least 2 combos at MK7, including a maxed out drone that is useful in todays OP P2W fiasco.

My advice to stop the rot, do missions and exit the game until the following day.

It's the only way you are going to be able to compete at the higher ranks, by getting your garage up to speed, which means playing way less than you are now.

This is a common sight in TO, mid to high rank players with a very weak garage.

It's how the devs want it, hoping you will spend cash to keep upgrading at the various stages of ranking.  

[wolverine848 13,097]

53 minutes ago, raze_avenger said:

and yes i activate my hornet od when there is a lot of ppl around. No matter how i use it i keep doing the standard 300 hp of damage to a tank with or without the od on

You don't do more damage with hornet OD.  You just don't get any minuses due to defenses. Without it you'd probably doing 150 or even less if the targets had Defender drone on.

Of course if you combine OD + DD you should do more.  If that's the case maybe these targets have AP protection.

Edited March 5, 2021 by wolverine848

[raze_avenger 221]

18 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

You don't do more damage with hornet OD.  You just don't get any minuses due to defenses. Without it you'd probably doing 150 or even less if the targets had Defender drone on.

Of course if you combine OD + DD you should do more.  If that's the case maybe these targets have AP protection.

ohh so thats how it works. but eh the hornet od is still useless imo

[raze_avenger 221]

44 minutes ago, SONIC-BOOM said:

Max your fave combo out with a preferred drone of your choice, and very important, get better protection modules.

MK7 10/20 is very weak, especially at your rank were you are going to go up against legends at some point.

I'm not being critical of your garage, just stating facts why you are struggling against players you yourself expect to beat. Low rank does not mean weak player, not if they are P2W.

You have fallen into the trap the devs have made for you, you are just ranking way to quickly without having the means to upgrade the majority of your garage to at least MK6 (MAX)

By your rank everything you use should be max MK6, with at least 2 combos at MK7, including a maxed out drone that is useful in todays OP P2W fiasco.

My advice to stop the rot, do missions and exit the game until the following day.

It's the only way you are going to be able to compete at the higher ranks, by getting your garage up to speed, which means playing way less than you are now.

This is a common sight in TO, mid to high rank players with a very weak garage.

It's how the devs want it, hoping you will spend cash to keep upgrading at the various stages of ranking.  

alright ill try and upgrade more and wait for sales. ty for the info 

[wild001 1,422]

Rico has same energy buff effect as short range gun like fire, freeze

so one load of shots can only kill one enemy if they dont use repair kit. Since after you finish all shots you need wait to reload, 

in today’s high protection, high repair kit usage battle, rico has become weaker than other continous shot range gun, like strike, thunder, twins

also the stock shot travel slower than other bullet gun.

while dps smaller than short range gun

 

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

1 hour ago, raze_avenger said:

I haven't used any augment with ricochet except plasma torch so i have no say on that part. But it sucks against heavily armored targets and fast ones like hopper when i activate my hornet od the hp of the enemy goes down so slowly. (Plus if you have protection against ricochet it barely does any damage) Thunder with sub caliber rounds will shred your tank and hammer with dragon breath will remove you in 3 or less shots.  

and yes i activate my hornet od when there is a lot of ppl around. No matter how i use it i keep doing the standard 300 hp of damage to a tank with or without the od on

Plasma Torch is annoying to face, but in my experience, not particularly effective. It makes Ricochet a short range turret . . . except there are already better short range turrets out there. Hornet's OD only disables protections (double armour, drones, protection modules, Titan's dome, etc). It's more of a team-oriented OD.

To me it feels like your problems stem from you using Hornet and not from using Ricochet. Ricochet does continuous damage, so you generally need to be able to tank incoming damage for some time (as opposed to turrets like Railgun which only require exposing the hull to incoming fire for a split second). I would recommend using a medium hull.

[raze_avenger 221]

6 minutes ago, ThirdOnion said:

Plasma Torch is annoying to face, but in my experience, not particularly effective. It makes Ricochet a short range turret . . . except there are already better short range turrets out there. Hornet's OD only disables protections (double armour, drones, protection modules, Titan's dome, etc). It's more of a team-oriented OD.

To me it feels like your problems stem from you using Hornet and not from using Ricochet. Ricochet does continuous damage, so you generally need to be able to tank incoming damage for some time (as opposed to turrets like Railgun which only require exposing the hull to incoming fire for a split second). I would recommend using a medium hull.

yeah thats true i shouldve gotten a viking instead. but plasme torch would be better since it outputs higher damage in a shorter amount of time. Also, playing ricochet mid range kind of impacts the damage a lot so i am forced to play close range for the max damage. 

[raze_avenger 221]

19 minutes ago, wild001 said:

Rico has same energy buff effect as short range gun like fire, freeze

so one load of shots can only kill one enemy if they dont use repair kit. Since after you finish all shots you need wait to reload, 

in today’s high protection, high repair kit usage battle, rico has become weaker than other continous shot range gun, like strike, thunder, twins

also the stock shot travel slower than other bullet gun.

while dps smaller than short range gun

 

yes that why rico is a pain to use now since the op augments and other weapon simply perform better 

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

11 minutes ago, raze_avenger said:

Also, playing ricochet mid range kind of impacts the damage a lot so i am forced to play close range for the max damage. 

This is why I recommend Minus-Field Stabilization; it effectively turns Ricochet into a mid-range turret.

Edited March 5, 2021 by ThirdOnion

[alkyng 3,080]

If you want to compare a turret with any other turret you have to exclude Gauss and Magnum, because basically if you compared any turret with them it will be UP.

I don't think Ricochet is underpowered I think it's balanced and really powerful and one of the strongest turrets compared to Smoky-Railgun-Thunder and for sure excluding (Gauss-Magnum).

Maybe you're a new with Ricochet and haven't mastered it? In my first days with Rico it was a really hard for me to use.. But now I have completed a very long hours with Rico and I haven't felt one day it was UP.

Playing with no Augments against players with Augments for sure will put you at a direct disadvantage.. Stock Railgun is a trash, but with its Augments it's a really powerful or maybe OP with Scout or LCR. Smoky with Cryo or Incendiary-rounds or Assault Rounds is a really powerful. Ricochet with Plasma-Torch or Minus-field is a really really powerful or OP.

Gauss for sure is out of our discussion because for sure if we want to compare every turret with Gauss it will be UP.

Hornet OD if you don't know how to use it efficiently certainly it will be a very weak (even the Hornet before the nerf), you have to use it against the players in your sight + don't use it randomly make a hundred lines under it.  You have to use the OD when you have Double Damage and your ammo is full AND against players with a strong defenses like a 50% against your turret + DA or under Titan's Dome.. Now your OD will be a very strong and OP.   But using the OD randomly without DD or with an inappropriate turret with the OD like (Thunder-Smoky IMO) will make the OD completely useless even the old version before the nerf.

[Spy 14,692]

Hornet itself became very weak after it got nerfed, so most of the combos that include Hornet are weak. The funny thing is, Hornet and Ricochet used to be my main combo in MM back in the day when Hornet's OD was overpowered.

Now I use Ricochet with Hopper/Viking

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

4 hours ago, Spy said:

Hornet itself became very weak after it got nerfed, so most of the combos that include Hornet are weak. The funny thing is, Hornet and Ricochet used to be my main combo in MM back in the day when Hornet's OD was overpowered.

Now I use Ricochet with Hopper/Viking

The problem with Hornet's OD really stems down to the fact that you're encouraged to use splash turrets, meaning all of the single fire turrets that can hit only one person at a time essentially had their effectiveness nuked.

What can be fixed about this? Well...I really don't know.

[raze_avenger 221]

7 hours ago, Unleash said:

Ricochet and hornet isnt weak, its all about playstyle and how good you are with it. 

its very weak compared to other combos which can tear it apart. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

14 hours ago, raze_avenger said:

yes that why rico is a pain to use now since the op augments and other weapon simply perform better 

I use Hunter and ricco-plasma

Does a lot of damage very quickly - especially if you have zapped target with emp.  Will destroy most tanks before supplies come back.

[alkyng 3,080]

Oh I forgot to mention one point..

Ricochet isn't an appropriate turret with Hornet or Wasp, it need a steady hull with a wide shape and an equivalent speed. But with the light hull of Hornet and a fast speed, I don't think Ricochet is appropriate. I think and assume that Viking is the most appropriate hull with Ricochet

Though this video was in Parkour, but it shows you how the difference in the stability. I think the only Rico who is appropriate for Hornet is Plasma-Torch, it has a quick shots and a really compatible with its OD for a quick assassination.

[2shots2kills 2,366]

Yeah, Twins/Ricochet have never been a good pairing with Wasp/Hornet. Those are DPS weapons meant to win a 1v1 engagement, so you need a few hp and a stable hull to do so.

 

I'd say Viking or Hunter are the best ones for those guns. 

[raze_avenger 221]

43 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Oh I forgot to mention one point..

Ricochet isn't an appropriate turret with Hornet or Wasp, it need a steady hull with a wide shape and an equivalent speed. But with the light hull of Hornet and a fast speed, I don't think Ricochet is appropriate. I think and assume that Viking is the most appropriate hull with Ricochet

Though this video was in Parkour, but it shows you how the difference in the stability. I think the only Rico who is appropriate for Hornet is Plasma-Torch, it has a quick shots and a really compatible with its OD for a quick assassination.

yes i do use it with hunter but nowadays i only see drugging gausses railguns magnums and shafts which tear me apart from long range.  I shouldve gotten viking tho so im regretful

[raze_avenger 221]

27 minutes ago, 2shots2kills said:

Yeah, Twins/Ricochet have never been a good pairing with Wasp/Hornet. Those are DPS weapons meant to win a 1v1 engagement, so you need a few hp and a stable hull to do so.

 

I'd say Viking or Hunter are the best ones for those guns. 

yes its absolute garbage. i dont know why i stuck with that combo for so long

[raze_avenger 221]

so i guess i should try and mu viking as best as i can. Since i already mued hunter to max, i cant get mk 7 UNTIL marshal which is a great pain. i think the right path is to be patient and focus on what i have since its what im stuck with. thanks for the advice guys it means a lot

[2shots2kills 2,366]

34 minutes ago, raze_avenger said:

so i guess i should try and mu viking as best as i can. Since i already mued hunter to max, i cant get mk 7 UNTIL marshal which is a great pain. i think the right path is to be patient and focus on what i have since its what im stuck with. thanks for the advice guys it means a lot

If you have Hunter then use that, there is barely any difference compared to Viking, the speed isn't that noticeable. IMHO, you should keep Ricochet/Hunter for Small/Medium range maps, and another Turret for bigger maps. (Railgun, Gauss, etc.)

 

 

[raze_avenger 221]

34 minutes ago, 2shots2kills said:

If you have Hunter then use that, there is barely any difference compared to Viking, the speed isn't that noticeable. IMHO, you should keep Ricochet/Hunter for Small/Medium range maps, and another Turret for bigger maps. (Railgun, Gauss, etc.)

 

 

Yeah that's what i was thinking. I'll try to mu gauss as much as i can since it is one of my most played turrets and hopefully i don't get legends with 9000+ gs every game. I was planning to quit the game after major but somehow it stuck. 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Ricochet isn't weak at all......


Gauss, Magnum, Vulcan with Heat Immunity, and Shaft are too OP.

 

 

As for Hornet, it's only weak because it's overdrive allows teammates to easily steal it's kills.