declined Juggernaut nerf

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

No, the problem isn't that I find Juggernauts hard to kill. The problem is, Juggernaut matches are mostly filled with Vikings, so I propose that instead of having all immunities, Juggernauts randomly get 2/3 immunities out of the available ones. So they can get perhaps Heat, AP and EMP immunity. It is randomly decided. This way, players can use other combos, and it's not just incessant Viking spam like it is now.

[Spy 14,901]

Declined

I feel like Juggernaut is not overpowered as it's supposed to be, so nerfing it is not a good idea. 

[Beakss 17]

yup its not overpowered at all low rank jgr abusers get 1k+ score each match 

[numericable 2,375]

I think each modes have its own best hulls, for example titan is for siege, viking for juggernaut, hopper for ctf or rugby, etc so if there are tons of viking in jgn, other hull are used in other modes which make it balanced in terms of uses. If juggernaut get a review then other modes should also. Exp: siege and its titan OD aka dome.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

21 minutes ago, Spy said:

Declined

I feel like Juggernaut is not overpowered as it's supposed to be, so nerfing it is not a good idea. 

IMO, it's not that it's overpowered, but the thing is the only hull in TJR is viking. The only other semi-viable hull is Crusader, which requires booster. Players tend to pursue the lowest cost solution to doing well in TJR and thus use Viking. Given how overhyped and overspammed it is, this inevitably leads to a mode almost completely full of Vikings.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, Spy said:

I feel like Juggernaut is not overpowered as it's supposed to be, so nerfing it is not a good idea. 

Yeah, but it's not really fair that Firebird users can barely do anything to the Juggernaut while every other turret can, considering that a massive portion of Firebird's damage potential at Mk8 comes from the afterburn (around 45% to be exact). It's base damage is trash for a turret with one of the shortest ranges in the game. It needs the afterburn.

Imagine if Gauss's sniping shots only do the same damage as it's arcade shots when sniping Juggernauts, cause that's basically a similar effect to Firebird being unable to burn Juggers.

 

 

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

20 minutes ago, numericable said:

I think each modes have its own best hulls, for example titan is for siege, viking for juggernaut, hopper for ctf or rugby, etc so if there are tons of viking in jgn, other hull are used in other modes which make it balanced in terms of uses. If juggernaut get a review then other modes should also. Exp: siege and its titan OD aka dome.

Well I concur, Viking should be the easiest hull to dominate with in TJR. But, it shouldn't be practically the only one. In Siege, Hunter, Titan, Mammoth and Ares generally share a healthy balance barring overspam of Titan for example. As for CTF and Rugby, there's no doubt it's mostly Hoopers, but I think there should be other hulls which are competitive also. Dictator has it's day in Assault defence, but just because of that you aren't practically required to use it to defend in ASL. 

[Maf 32,328]

You don't need Viking to take out Juggernaut. There are plenty of other high damage combos, like Cyclone or Heavy Capacitors with booster and any hull.

I think Juggernaut is balanced as is. If it should get nerfed, I'd propose some kind of minor protection against massive bursts of damage from one player.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

13 minutes ago, Maf said:

You don't need Viking to take out Juggernaut. They're plenty of other high damage combos, like Cyclone or Heavy Capacitors with booster and any hull.

I think Juggernaut is balanced as is. If it should get nerfed, I'd propose some kind of minor protection against massive bursts of damage from one player.

Well true, but any of those require booster, which in turn requires a lot of crystals to both acquire and upgrade, as well as maintain.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

26 minutes ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Well true, but any of those require booster, which in turn requires a lot of crystals to both acquire and upgrade, as well as maintain.

Cyclone doesn't require booster.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

10 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Cyclone doesn't require booster.

Well yes, but it's much harder to do that than for you to simply use Viking and your OD. If you've got the skill it can definitely work, but generally it's a lot harder.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

17 minutes ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Well yes, but it's much harder to do that than for you to simply use Viking and your OD. If you've got the skill it can definitely work, but generally it's a lot harder.

You have viking OD every 3.5 minutes, but you can deal 14K damage with cyclone anytime.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

Just now, mjmj5558 said:

You have viking OD every 3.5 minutes, but you can deal 14K damage with cyclone anytime.

True, but how easily can you actually lock on to a Juggernaut when most of the time they're camping in their base, alongside an isida/sabateour users or some such?

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

I definitely think there is a problem in Juggernaut mode, ever since the Juggernaut gained immunity to all status effects - that certain hulls and turrets (see Firebird) are now literally useless, whereas all hulls used to have something useful. Something needs to be done - what it is is up for debate.

It used to be the case that Hunter and Hopper were both good (and yes I know Hopper is still good with Cyclone, but in terms of it's overdrive), now both hulls overdrives are useless - and Hornet's overdrive also used to provide some Armor Penetration benefit, but it now only tells you the HP of the jug which is not massively useful - compared to what Viking or Ares can do.

I think at the very least the Juggernaut should only have 50% heat resistance and NOT immunity (unless the player has a heat immunity hull augment) because it is very unfair that Firebird is the only stock turret which is useless in Juggernaut (unless they have Incendiary mix, which not all players - especially at low rank, do not have. No 245k crystal augment should be mandatory to actually be able to play a mode). Juggernaut never had a problem with Heat effects, after Hopper was introduced stuns were a problem, yes, and Freeze was always a bit OP against Juggernauts - but there is no way it needs to be immune to Heat effects. At least then, Firebird and Hopper (mainly for the sake of stock Firebird) could do something in the mode.

The "problem" with Viking and certain drones/augments being the only things that are any good is exacerbated by the fact that certain turrets and hull overdrives are literally useless since it gained the immunities.

[Alsar 619]

I agree with Spy. Juggernaut isnt overpowerd for example with hammer and booster you can deal with 3 shoots around 9k to 11k dmg so then he is very low and easy to shoot him after.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

20 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

I definitely think there is a problem in Juggernaut mode, ever since the Juggernaut gained immunity to all status effects - that certain hulls and turrets (see Firebird) are now literally useless, whereas all hulls used to have something useful. Something needs to be done - what it is is up for debate.

It used to be the case that Hunter and Hopper were both good (and yes I know Hopper is still good with Cyclone, but in terms of it's overdrive), now both hulls overdrives are useless - and Hornet's overdrive also used to provide some Armor Penetration benefit, but it now only tells you the HP of the jug which is not massively useful - compared to what Viking or Ares can do.

I think at the very least the Juggernaut should only have 50% heat resistance and NOT immunity (unless the player has a heat immunity hull augment) because it is very unfair that Firebird is the only stock turret which is useless in Juggernaut (unless they have Incendiary mix, which not all players - especially at low rank, do not have. No 245k crystal augment should be mandatory to actually be able to play a mode). Juggernaut never had a problem with Heat effects, after Hopper was introduced stuns were a problem, yes, and Freeze was always a bit OP against Juggernauts - but there is no way it needs to be immune to Heat effects. At least then, Firebird and Hopper (mainly for the sake of stock Firebird) could do something in the mode.

The "problem" with Viking and certain drones/augments being the only things that are any good is exacerbated by the fact that certain turrets and hull overdrives are literally useless since it gained the immunities.

Yes! Every hull is now useless except Viking and Crusader maybe. Wasp, Titan, Mammoth and Ares can all be easily avoided. Hornet, Hooper, Hunter just put on a nice light show. Even then, Crusader requires booster to actually do anything. That's at least a million crystals to just buy and upgrade, and that's without Double Damage and batteries included.

13 minutes ago, Alsarbon said:

I agree with Spy. Juggernaut isnt overpowerd for example with hammer and booster you can deal with 3 shoots around 9k to 11k dmg so then he is very low and easy to shoot him after.

Yes, but with this change we'd have more diversity in terms of what is used.

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

After having played both modes for years, here's what I have to say.

Team Juggernaut is a significant downgrade from what Solo Juggernaut used to be, and the Solo Juggernaut you see today in special events is a shell of what it used to be.

Let's start with the old JGR mode. Straight away I will tell you that Striker spam there was literally on another level, prompting me to get Striker protection maxed out immediately. There were actually numerous ways to kill the Juggernaut, most commonly being Viking, Cyclone, and the old Uranium. Of course, there were other little-known strategies, such as the Heavy Capacitors trick which guaranteed a oneshot, Wasp's nuke with Shock Freeze, and even Incendiary Mix, Plasmatorch, or Magnum with Hunter.

You may be wondering how it was playable with this many counters. The answer is very simple.

Juggernaut's Overdrive recharged incredibly quick, with a single kill guaranteeing 50% charge back.

This meant that you could actually run around the map with Juggernaut and stay competitive against many players at the same time, regardless of what strategy they were using. Of course, there was one more additional factor that determined your success (namely, protections), but as long as you didn't use your OD in some sort of stupid way, you could go on really long streaks without having to camp, in true Juggernaut fashion.

Eventually, the health glitch was fixed, but after that, the Overdrive was tweaked and it started to charge much slower, which made it significantly more difficult to survive against people using Defender. At this point in time, the Striker spam seemed to dissipate and lean more towards Viking spam.

Then came the introduction of Team Juggernaut. This process of Viking spam accelerated, and started to overshadow every single other hull. Because of Juggernauts resorting to camping, TJR quickly became the mode most notorious for easy kill farming with zero skill necessary.

Finally, the Juggernaut received immunity against all status effects. Remember how I mentioned the other strategies? Those became irrelevant entirely, bar for Shaft and Heavy Capacitors. With Uranium out of the mix, all that was left was Viking, Cyclone, and Heavy Capacitors, with the overwhelming majority of players opting to go for the first option.

And here we are, in 2021. Viking spam has plagued not just Juggernaut, but also the rest of MM. Solo Juggernaut is a broken shell of what it once was, where it is impossible for a Juggernaut to actually be anywhere near as competitive as it was in the past. Team Juggernaut is just a camping mess, where there is absolutely zero fun involved. In fact, since TJR is such a joke, please use Viking so you can end those games even quicker.

Juggernaut was once a fun and fair mode where moving around was rewarded, and slip-ups would be punished accordingly. Nowadays, the punishments for even daring to move are so severe that camping is encouraged, and there are only 3 solutions to combat this - the preferred one being Viking. If we want to fix this, then we need to make sure that camping isn't rewarded as much as it is now, as it's just broken beyond repair. After that, Viking should probably be tweaked in some way, shape, or form so that it isn't just a button meant for primitive gameplay. Finally, the Juggernaut Overdrive charging absolutely has to be reverted to what it was specifically for Solo Juggernaut, as it is much too difficult to survive for extended periods of time when you are being blasted by multiple Vikings again and again.

That's really it.

[alkyng 3,081]

Sometimes I see Jugger is a really UP against some strong targets, like a one with Heavy Weight and Defender drone. Which you couldn't push him with your OD or with your laser, and they can face you face to face which will take a very high portion of your health.

And sometimes I see Jugger is a really OP when it comes in a hand of some strong player, especially in lower ranks. Juggernaut there is a really abused, one strong buyer dominate the battle completely and kill everyone left and right. And for sure no chance for you to fight him, this happening also in Legends if your team wasn't that strong. Even if you was strong you wont kill him if you haven't get the Jugger to face him face to face.

So in my opinion I see the current Jugger tanks is a balanced. If a nerf happened it will be a more weaker and many individual player will kill it even without OD. And if it get a buff, it will be a very dominate in many battles especially in low ranks / weak teams.    So I think Jugger now is in between.

By the way I see Juggernaut also is in unstable way, because most of the ODs doesn't work against it except a very few ODs prominent from them the Viking. And as TankerArthur said it's immune to Firebird especially, which make me say it's more unstable mode.

[alkyng 3,081]

24 minutes ago, Adriel.RB said:

i currently dont have time to read it all but i agree because you're tide

Dependency 

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

5 hours ago, Tidebreaker said:

After having played both modes for years, here's what I have to say.

Team Juggernaut is a significant downgrade from what Solo Juggernaut used to be, and the Solo Juggernaut you see today in special events is a shell of what it used to be.

Let's start with the old JGR mode. Straight away I will tell you that Striker spam there was literally on another level, prompting me to get Striker protection maxed out immediately. There were actually numerous ways to kill the Juggernaut, most commonly being Viking, Cyclone, and the old Uranium. Of course, there were other little-known strategies, such as the Heavy Capacitors trick which guaranteed a oneshot, Wasp's nuke with Shock Freeze, and even Incendiary Mix, Plasmatorch, or Magnum with Hunter.

You may be wondering how it was playable with this many counters. The answer is very simple.

Juggernaut's Overdrive recharged incredibly quick, with a single kill guaranteeing 50% charge back.

This meant that you could actually run around the map with Juggernaut and stay competitive against many players at the same time, regardless of what strategy they were using. Of course, there was one more additional factor that determined your success (namely, protections), but as long as you didn't use your OD in some sort of stupid way, you could go on really long streaks without having to camp, in true Juggernaut fashion.

Eventually, the health glitch was fixed, but after that, the Overdrive was tweaked and it started to charge much slower, which made it significantly more difficult to survive against people using Defender. At this point in time, the Striker spam seemed to dissipate and lean more towards Viking spam.

Then came the introduction of Team Juggernaut. This process of Viking spam accelerated, and started to overshadow every single other hull. Because of Juggernauts resorting to camping, TJR quickly became the mode most notorious for easy kill farming with zero skill necessary.

Finally, the Juggernaut received immunity against all status effects. Remember how I mentioned the other strategies? Those became irrelevant entirely, bar for Shaft and Heavy Capacitors. With Uranium out of the mix, all that was left was Viking, Cyclone, and Heavy Capacitors, with the overwhelming majority of players opting to go for the first option.

And here we are, in 2021. Viking spam has plagued not just Juggernaut, but also the rest of MM. Solo Juggernaut is a broken shell of what it once was, where it is impossible for a Juggernaut to actually be anywhere near as competitive as it was in the past. Team Juggernaut is just a camping mess, where there is absolutely zero fun involved. In fact, since TJR is such a joke, please use Viking so you can end those games even quicker.

Juggernaut was once a fun and fair mode where moving around was rewarded, and slip-ups would be punished accordingly. Nowadays, the punishments for even daring to move are so severe that camping is encouraged, and there are only 3 solutions to combat this - the preferred one being Viking. If we want to fix this, then we need to make sure that camping isn't rewarded as much as it is now, as it's just broken beyond repair. After that, Viking should probably be tweaked in some way, shape, or form so that it isn't just a button meant for primitive gameplay. Finally, the Juggernaut Overdrive charging absolutely has to be reverted to what it was specifically for Solo Juggernaut, as it is much too difficult to survive for extended periods of time when you are being blasted by multiple Vikings again and again.

That's really it.

Agreed. I'd also like to say, because Juggernauts camp players resort to viking. Anything else is harder because you're dealing with the juggernaut in their base, and because players use Viking, Juggernauts will camp, because if they don't they're exposed and can be ambushed. It's sort of a cycle out of which you can only break if there are less Vikings, and perhaps camping is discouraged.

[Iquit 102]

19 hours ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

No, the problem isn't that I find Juggernauts hard to kill. The problem is, Juggernaut matches are mostly filled with Vikings, so I propose that instead of having all immunities, Juggernauts randomly get 2/3 immunities out of the available ones. So they can get perhaps Heat, AP and EMP immunity. It is randomly decided. This way, players can use other combos, and it's not just incessant Viking spam like it is now.

all vikings in juggernaut you say? maybe something else needs a nerf

 none of you will admit it

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

5 hours ago, master_howitzer said:

all vikings in juggernaut you say? maybe something else needs a nerf

 none of you will admit it

Viking is the cheapest way to do well in Juggernaut. It also requires the least effort. Nerfing Viking accomplishes nothing, because you're nerfing something that isn't broken in the first place. The whole problem of Juggernaut being exclusively Viking infested came into existence because of the fact that Juggernaut got a lot of immunities. Prior to that, combos such as Hunter cyclone, Wasp Shock Freeze were still capable of destroying a juggernaut. 

[Karot 259]

@Spy Nerf Magnum. 

Imagine getting 1 shotted by a mag mk6 and your a mk7+  thats sad 

[Picassoo 191]

On 3/25/2021 at 9:38 AM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

IMO, it's not that it's overpowered, but the thing is the only hull in TJR is viking. The only other semi-viable hull is Crusader, which requires booster. Players tend to pursue the lowest cost solution to doing well in TJR and thus use Viking. Given how overhyped and overspammed it is, this inevitably leads to a mode almost completely full of Vikings.

Quite frankly I don't view certain hulls or combos being more suitable than others for certain gamemodes as a problem

[thunderhunter123 741]

I think Juggernaut is pretty strong, but it is balanced even with all immunities.

• Players can choose to use Viking's, Mammoth's, Wasp's, ... OD to defeat it, but it should get protection from smaller effects like getting stunned, burnt, etc.
• If it has only some Immunities, then it would make it more weaker.
• Juggernaut should be a strong tank to go up against, as it is the main part of the Juggernaut Game Mode.
• If the Game Mode had a weak Juggernaut, then it wouldn't be as fun to players who become it, and lose to things like a burn, or getting stunned by one tanker, using Striker, and then losing to its rockets launched at the Juggernaut.

So this is why having all these small immunities is good for a Juggernaut. Tankers can work together and regularly shoot to defeat Juggernaut.

By having the immunities, it gives Juggernaut a little more security to survive longer.