declined Make Magnum fit this game or make this game fit Magnum

[Cleric 1,385]

The biggest problem of Magnum is it is an artillery turret which can shoot projectiles across the map while behind cover. Yet this game is designed linearly. E.g. the maps are designed in a manner which players are expected to have line of sight in order to deal damage. And Magnum does not require that.

Now since the mods strictly forbidden the suggestion of removing Magnum, which I don't approve, I have no choice but to give a less than ideal suggestion:

• Make Magnum always at a fixed, lower angle
  This prevents projectiles shoot over most covers (and no other mechanics like augments should change that)
   
• Properly increase the projectile speed and/or adjust the projectile drop off the so that it retains the ability to hit enemies from afar. 

 

@ThirdOnion Also make a good point:  

7 hours ago, ThirdOnion said:

A better solution is to change maps. Shift bases and objectives around. Reduce the amount of locations Magnums can hit from bases. Add underground areas. Massive changes need to be made to maps but apparently few consider them to be a pressing issue.

This is obviously a more ideal solution, but it requires a lot more work. And I have doubts on whether the Devs will even consider that given their attitude towards this project in recent years.

[Spy 14,877]

Declined 

We do not accept ideas regarding the removal of updates. 

The status of your idea can change if you will propose a good way to change Magnum. (Removing it won't happen)

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

How to rework Magnum:

Make the default version rotate Vertically. Reinforced Gun Carriage and Harpoon will rotate Horizontally.

Increase the reload of high-leveled modifications of Magnum.

[LambSauce 1,894]

@Aegis I actually agree that Magnum is game-breaking and doesn't really belong in a linear shooter like Tanki. However, removing it is unrealistic and is highly unlikely to occur. And technically, Magnum was already reworked in the past, although that was a joke because the devs didn't fix anything wrong with this turret but only changed how it rotates.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

23 minutes ago, Aegis said:

Before you mods reject this and said "We do not accept ideas regarding changes to the actual Tanki Online to its previous versions, or ideas regarding the removal of updates."

3,2,1

 

15 minutes ago, Spy said:

We do not accept ideas regarding the removal of updates. 

After you mods reject this and said "We do not accept ideas regarding changes to the actual Tanki Online to its previous versions, or ideas regarding the removal of updates."

 

Removing a turret is not an option, once it was released in the game. People spent crystals and time to buy it, to buy the augments for it and not all magnum users are camping

[Cleric 1,385]

23 minutes ago, Spy said:

Declined 

We do not accept ideas regarding the removal of updates. 

The status of your idea can change if you will propose a good way to change Magnum. (Removing it won't happen)

Even it is clearly a mistake to introduce something that devastating? This game is simply not designed to allow artillery type projectile weapons to exist. The map design, the ways to counter it (if any) . This game is not prepared for that.

If the devs, can choose to remove crystal boxes and re-added them back, well kind of. Why is it not valid to remove magnum and re-add it until the game is prepared for it?

[Cleric 1,385]

10 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Removing a turret is not an option, once it was released in the game. People spent crystals and time to buy it, to buy the augments for it and not all magnum users are camping

It encourages camping and it is how artillery suppose to work, isn't it? 

As for the problem of crystals, that is easy. Do a refund, simple and stupid. Besides, it is not the first time the devs have drastically changed the mechanics of a piece of equipment, essentially making it a completely different one. I don't see some sort of compensations at those moments.

[alkyng 3,080]

35 minutes ago, Aegis said:

You never see popular E-sport titles actually allows players to camp while still able to perform well. 

Umm honestly I used to love to watch the clan wars from 2012-2015. You see how every player contribute with the others and everyone is doing their best to winning their team.. No selfish, the player wont care about the 1st or the last place as the team just should win, though it was really fullfeed with insults even some of them came with a real photo for a one. BTW, Pro-battles at that time weren't too far from this, highly team contribution.

[Titan 752]

55 minutes ago, Aegis said:

where since AP augments have been introduced, it makes  magnum camping even more effective than before.

I completely understand you. I use magnum a lot and the AP augment is very strong especially when good magnum user uses it.

But yet there is the AP immunity augment that helps counter it.

I feel the AP magnum is good as it is (direct touch on enemy applies AP), imagine if it gave AP to splash damage targets lol.

[Cleric 1,385]

1 minute ago, Pop.Smoke said:

I completely understand you. I use magnum a lot and the AP augment is very strong especially when good magnum user uses it.

But yet there is the AP immunity augment that helps counter it.

Yeah, I know but even without that augment, the fact that magnum can potentially ignore cover and there is little you can do when a magnum is sitting in his own base is enough for it to be unforgivable.

[Spy 14,877]

2 hours ago, Aegis said:

Even it is clearly a mistake to introduce something that devastating? This game is simply not designed to allow artillery type projectile weapons to exist. The map design, the ways to counter it (if any) . This game is not prepared for that.

If the devs, can choose to remove crystal boxes and re-added them back, well kind of. Why is it not valid to remove magnum and re-add it until the game is prepared for it?

You can't compare removing the removal of crystal boxes to a removal of a turret, that's completely different.

As to Magnum being a mistake, if you have a way to make Magnum fit into the game, feel free to suggest it.

[Cleric 1,385]

5 hours ago, Spy said:

You can't compare removing the removal of crystal boxes to a removal of a turret, that's completely different.

How is that different? Both are essentially game mechanics/features.

The only difference is a feature is once removed and "re-added" while I am requesting to do the opposite to another feature temporary as one of the possible ways to fix the game for now.

If the devs has done something similar in nature before, what's the reason for you to decline the idea right away without even consulting them? Are you trying to decline the devs as well?

 

As for making magnum fit the game, yes it is very hard because this game simply have no room for an artillery turret to exist. If I have to suggest a change, then it would make magnum not even work as an artillery, so what's the point? You are going to decline it right away aren't you?

Let's try it. Lock the angle of magnum to 20 - 30 degree, the exact number should be dialed further. Also remove or rework all augments that able to change the angle. This should make it impossible for magnum to shoot over most cover while retain it's ability to shoot from afar.

This is no longer an artillery turret and not be an artillery turret in the first place.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Magnum can be used quite effectively as a short-range turret (especially with Booster and Hornet). Nerf its long-range abilities too much and players will start using it at short-ranges, which is honestly even more frustrating. Maybe I have PTSD from the days of the pre-nerf Magnum RGC + Hornet combo but I'd rather Magnums sit in their bases and camp.

A better solution is to change maps. Shift bases and objectives around. Reduce the amount of locations Magnums can hit from bases. Add underground areas. Massive changes need to be made to maps but apparently few consider them to be a pressing issue.

[Cleric 1,385]

22 minutes ago, ThirdOnion said:

Magnum can be used quite effectively as a short-range turret (especially with Booster and Hornet). Nerf its long-range abilities too much and players will start using it at short-ranges, which is honestly even more frustrating. Maybe I have PTSD from the days of the pre-nerf Magnum RGC + Hornet combo but I'd rather Magnums sit in their bases and camp.

A better solution is to change maps. Shift bases and objectives around. Reduce the amount of locations Magnums can hit from bases. Add underground areas. Massive changes need to be made to maps but apparently few consider them to be a pressing issue.

This is another option and properly a more ideal one as well. But I'm not sure whether Devs like this idea because as you mentioned, it requires a lot of work. In fact, even if we only focus on MM maps, we still have to change a bunch. Sandbox, Sandal, Year 2042, Frost, etc. The maps are designed so that the base is hard to get overwhelmed by the opposing team to avoid spawn camping. But with the introduction of Magnum, we have to choose between an easy to access base or a hard to conquer base.

[Maf 32,324]

9 hours ago, Aegis said:

Even it is clearly a mistake to introduce something that devastating? This game is simply not designed to allow artillery type projectile weapons to exist. The map design, the ways to counter it (if any) . This game is not prepared for that.

If the devs, can choose to remove crystal boxes and re-added them back, well kind of. Why is it not valid to remove magnum and re-add it until the game is prepared for it?

I feel like there are enough ways to deal with Magnums. The main one being the magnum module, of course. But you can also counter-attack them with your own Magnum, or attack them over and over with, say, Hopper. I rarely have a lot of problems with enemy magnums camping.

[Cleric 1,385]

3 hours ago, Maf said:

 

Quote

The main one being the magnum module

Good luck using it dealing with AP augment. Even without the augment, critical damage literally ignores magnum module. And remember, a lot of the time you can only choose to either attempt to dodge the projectile or tank the damage. You can't fight back because that camper is all the way in his base with a wall separating between you and him.

Quote

you can also counter-attack them with your own Magnum, or attack them over and over with, say, Hopper

So you are suggesting that a broken mechanic can only be countered by using the same broken mechanic? Or rushing to the enemy base and praying you can kill that camper before 5 guys shooting at you at the same time?

 

I can understand why you don't think magnum is a problem. You play CTF and DM the most and you mostly uses light hull. In both modes, your roles (either as a flag capper or a solo) make you seldom group up with your team mates (if any). And the speed of the light hulls can usually dodge magnum's direct hit, unless you are extremely unlucky. But in certain modes like TDM and Siege, which the former encourages players to always keep their distance and mostly stay close to their spawn while the latter encourages players to cluster up. Magnum is a huge threat and very broken.

If you really want to experience yourself, spend a few days and

• Play Siege and TDM mode
• Try to play the objective, e.g. in Siege mode, try your best to cap the point instead of doing a backline fire support
• Preferably use medium or heavy hull
• If possible, use an alternate account, some players will simply go crazy and start spamming gold box or intentionally letting you cap the point if they saw a helper playing with them.

[Spy 14,877]

6 hours ago, Aegis said:

How is that different? Both are essentially game mechanics/features.

Players spent a lot of crystals to buy and upgrade Magnum, as well as buy augments. Oh, and don't forget Magnum XT. Removing a turret is not easy at all, there a lot of things to keep in mind.

6 hours ago, Aegis said:

so what's the point? You are going to decline it right away aren't you?

You are saying that like I have something against you, which is not the case obviously.

[Maf 32,324]

1 hour ago, Aegis said:

You play CTF and DM the most and you mostly uses light hull.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions about players' play style based on their profiles, tbh. Profiles existed since 2015, so recent changes in habits are not reflected due to the data being shown for overall. I'm honestly surprised that DM is my 2nd most played mode, considering it was removed from MM over a year ago (except special events), and I don't remember ever being interested in it.

However, you're right about me not finding Magnums to be particularly dangerous, because I indeed use a fast hull and they find it hard to hit me.

1 hour ago, Aegis said:

If you really want to experience yourself, spend a few days and

• Play Siege and TDM mode
• Try to play the objective, e.g. in Siege mode, try your best to cap the point instead of doing a backline fire support
• Preferably use medium or heavy hull
• If possible, use an alternate account, some players will simply go crazy and start spamming gold box or intentionally letting you cap the point if they saw a helper playing with them.

I play TDM quite a lot, and I use Crusader Shaft. Once again, haven't really been bothered by Magnums all that much, but I'll pay attention to them from now on and let you know what I think.

Honestly I can tell you right away that a high damaging camper is usually the least of my worries, considering all the plethora of status effect augments from other turrets these days.

 

14 hours ago, Aegis said:

Now let me explain why Magnum should be either be removed or completely reworked.

I want to reflect on this part for a moment.

Removing Magnum obviously isn't going to happen, but you didn't give any details for how you think it should be reworked. What specific changes do you think should be made to fix Magnum and make it more suitable for Tanki?

[Cleric 1,385]

21 minutes ago, Spy said:

You are saying that like I have something against you, which is not the case obviously.

Good. Now I have already suggested to make Magnum always at a fixed, low angle to prevent projectiles shoot over covers (and no other mechanics like augments should change that) and properly increase the projectile speed so that it retains the ability to hit enemies from afar. 

@ThirdOnion actually make good point of a a more ideal, but hard to achieve change, which is to update the MM map to allow magnums not being too effective in camping.

 

Now so far at least two suggestions has been made, is that enough for you to change the status? You can also change the title to something like "Magnum Balancing" or "Magnum does not fit in this game currently" if you see fit. 

[alkyng 3,080]

6 minutes ago, Maf said:

Profiles existed since 2015,

True, most of the player playing style / good times are in the first 2 years, then year after year the game become more boring / routinely. You can't judge for the old players about their new states, maybe they just play randomly

[Cleric 1,385]

11 minutes ago, Maf said:

I want to reflect on this part for a moment.

Removing Magnum obviously isn't going to happen, but you didn't give any details for how you think it should be reworked. What specific changes do you think should be made to fix Magnum and make it more suitable for Tanki?

 

7 hours ago, Aegis said:

As for making magnum fit the game, yes it is very hard because this game simply have no room for an artillery turret to exist. If I have to suggest a change, then it would make magnum not even work as an artillery, so what's the point? You are going to decline it right away aren't you?

Let's try it. Lock the angle of magnum to 20 - 30 degree, the exact number should be dialed further. Also remove or rework all augments that able to change the angle. This should make it impossible for magnum to shoot over most cover while retain it's ability to shoot from afar.

This is no longer an artillery turret and should not be an artillery turret in the first place.

I posted this 6 hours ago.

 

5 hours ago, ThirdOnion said:

A better solution is to change maps. Shift bases and objectives around. Reduce the amount of locations Magnums can hit from bases. Add underground areas. Massive changes need to be made to maps but apparently few consider them to be a pressing issue.

ThirdOnion posted this 5 hours ago as a reply to my suggestion, which mine is not ideal at best.

 

I know you may be busy and it is understandable that you don't pay full effort on a unpaid volunteer  work, but can you actually read the posts before replying anything?

[Spy 14,877]

4 minutes ago, Aegis said:

Good. Now I have already suggested to make Magnum always at a fixed, low angle to prevent projectiles shoot over covers (and no other mechanics like augments should change that) and properly increase the projectile speed so that it retains the ability to hit enemies from afar. 

@ThirdOnion actually make good point of a a more ideal, but hard to achieve change, which is to update the MM map to allow magnums not being too effective in camping.

 

Now so far at least two suggestions has been made, is that enough for you to change the status? You can also change the title to something like "Magnum Balancing" or "Magnum does not fit in this game currently" if you see fit. 

Please edit your main post.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

14 hours ago, Spy said:

Declined 

We do not accept ideas regarding the removal of updates. 

The status of your idea can change if you will propose a good way to change Magnum. (Removing it won't happen)

Can we propose to remove Modes? Like *cough* *cough* ASL?

Spoiler

Or at least give a damn about it? Reworked?

 

[Cleric 1,385]

14 minutes ago, Spy said:

Please edit your main post.

Is it good enough?

[Cleric 1,385]

1 hour ago, Spy said:

Removing a turret is not easy at all, there a lot of things to keep in mind.

So at the end of the day, the natures of the two things are the same. It is just the matter of fact that one is easier and one is harder. You declined it simply because "it is not easy at all"? I thought you said because they are "ideas regarding the removal of updates".

 

Also, what about those "tests" the devs conducted, reverted and never appear in the game again? You may argue those are not "removal of updates" because they have announced them as "tests". Good, now can I suggest the devs to removal Magnum from the game for a week as a "test" and decide whether they should put it back in the game after the "test"?