declined Suggestion for crisis drone

[DeIicate 53]

I came up with this idea today thinking about how unbalanced crisis drone is, and how easily anyone with such a drone can always be in godmode in battles. 

Remove repairing ability when crisis drone is equipped ( Repair from drop boxes are possible). The instant supply changing and damage/armor boost is just as enough for the drone.

[Spy 14,873]

Under review

Declined

Removing the ability to repair oneself entirely is way too much disadvantage. Maybe a little bit of delay in using Repair Kit is fine.

[alkyng 3,080]

Alot of players fall in this fallacy, suggesting to nerf the wrong thing. Crisis is OP in the speed, so it's better to suggest nerfing it.

Making it deprived from Repair Kits seems a weird nerf! and an overkill from another side! Like I have seen someone before suggesting nerfing Hopper health to 1600HP. I really don't understand why going far from nerfing directly the OP thing, Jumping!

[Maf 32,324]

I would argue that Crisis is only OP in certain situations, and the same goes for all other drones.

Most notably, Crisis is extremely overpowered when used with Hopper in any of the capture modes (CTF/RGB/ASL), or in a large, open map with a long range turret, which allows it to have permanent DD with a permanent added boost (though much less than a fully MUd Booster).

But ever since Crisis was introduced, I rarely had trouble dealing with non-Hopper players using it. It definitely requires some skill to be used effectively (as well as an absolute mountain of supplies).

[Blutaar 1,904]

So instead of nerfing a certain feature of the drone, you are suggesting to remove a generally necessary supply altogether? In what universe does that make sense?

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

12 hours ago, OverWorld said:

I came up with this idea today thinking about how unbalanced crisis drone is, and how easily anyone with such a drone can always be in godmode in battles. 

Remove repairing ability when crisis drone is equipped ( Repair from drop boxes are possible). The instant supply changing and damage/armor boost is just as enough for the drone.

Akame suggest that Crisis should have 2 seconds of cooldown regardless of MU after juggling through each manual supplies.

I myself suggested removing its juggling ability in exchange of consuming only 1 additional supplies.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Booster and Defender both needs rebalance:

Decrease Booster's potency to 3x of damage (at 20/20 MU) when active in exchange of lasting 6 seconds and only consume 1 additional supply. At 0/20, it would increase its potency by 50%.

Defender's potency will be untouched but its power-up duration will get nerfed to 6 seconds to compete its offensive cousin. Again. only consuming 1 addtional supply.

[LambSauce 1,894]

To be fair, the only OP thing about Crisis is the speed boost.

Other than that, I dare say it’s relatively balanced.

[EmeraldCat 562]

21 hours ago, OverWorld said:

I came up with this idea today thinking about how unbalanced crisis drone is, and how easily anyone with such a drone can always be in godmode in battles. 

Remove repairing ability when crisis drone is equipped ( Repair from drop boxes are possible). The instant supply changing and damage/armor boost is just as enough for the drone.

I don't have the Crisis Drone, but even I can see how unfair this would be towards Crisis Drone users. I seriously dislike Crisis Drone, but I believe there are better ways of nerfing the drone.

[wolverine848 13,097]

8 hours ago, FrozenRailgun said:

Decrease Booster's potency to 3x of damage (at 20/20 MU) when active in exchange of lasting 6 seconds and only consume 1 additional supply. At 0/20, it would increase its potency by 50%.

Defender's potency will be untouched but its power-up duration will get nerfed to 6 seconds to compete its offensive cousin. Again. only consuming 1 addtional supply.

This is not a good trade off.  The attacker has an advantage.  Currently booster gets 1 automatic kill with use.  And Booster already beats Defender.   6 seconds will give it at least 2 automatic kills.

What is a Defender gonna do with 6 seconds of extra defense?

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

This is not a good trade off.  The attacker has an advantage.  Currently booster gets 1 automatic kill with use. 

And Booster already beats Defender.   6 seconds will give it at least 2 automatic kills.

What is a Defender gonna do with 6 seconds of extra defense?

4x damage boost increases the chance of scoring a kill lot more. A 3x boost decreases the chance of scoring kill per use.

Booster does overpower Defender indeed (4x * 0.33x = 1.33x damage increase), that I do agree with you. Though 1 guaranteed kill for 3 seconds vs 2 unguaranteed kills in 6 seconds, different story.

3 seconds of souped up damage but its defensive cousin lasts almost 7x longer???? Not balanced either...

From my ideas, it is to make sure that no drone is overpowering the another, meaning that Booster can't overpower its defensive cousin in terms of damage increase (as shown above), and Defender can't overpower its offensive cousin in terms of power-up duration.

[alkyng 3,080]

58 minutes ago, FrozenRailgun said:

3 seconds of souped up damage but its defensive cousin lasts almost 7x longer???? Not balanced either...

Defender is fightable with its 20s, many times I easily kill the Defender with no drone. But look at Booster with Hammer Duplet in example!! It will kill you inevitably, no chance to fight back.

But what about if Defender had just a 6s of defense? Definitely it will be nothing, can't kill me nor it can capture the flag in 6s.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

6 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Defender is fightable with its 20s, many times I easily kill the Defender with no drone.

With what exactly? Sure you won't get clapped immediately but you can't overcome its 2/3 damage reduction that easily.

6 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

But look at Booster with Hammer Duplet in example!! It will kill you inevitably, no chance to fight back.

Yes I do agree with you on that. Just one burst with that beefed up damage can deal 8,640 damage in total, but I literally said that with my idea of nerfed Booster, it deals 6,480 burst damage (can overcome pre-nerfed Boosted Armor but not enough to deal additional 2x damage after that).

6 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

But what about if Defender had just a 6s of defense? Definitely it will be nothing, can't kill me nor it can capture the flag in 6s.

6 seconds still makes a difference between life or death. It is meant to be situation, like Booster.

[Cleric 1,385]

Let me elaborate how booster, defender and most importantly crisis works in case some one start yelling "Crisis is OP" simply because it is from containers only. I will only mention the most noticeable effects.

Booster:

• Increase effect of Boosted Damage from +100% to +300% for 3 second.
• Reduce the cooldown of Boosted Damage so that essentially you can have it on all the time.

Defender:

• Increase the effect of Boosted Armor from resulting the user taking 1/2 of damage to 1/3 of damage.
  Unlike Booster, this effect last as soon as Boosted Armor is active
• Reduce the cooldown of Boosted Armor so that essentially you can have it on all the time.

Crisis:

• Smart cooldown and cooldown is reduced to basically non-existence

You must choose ONE of the following, you can't have all of the following effects active at once.

• Increase effect of Boosted Damage from +100% to +150%
• Increase the effect of Boosted Armor from resulting the user taking 1/2 of damage to 1/3 of damage.
• Increase movement speed by 70%

 

The main advantage of Crisis is the flexibility to switch between different "modes". This is also why some players think it is OP because people who used it a lot will be able switch modes so effectively that they are always in an advantage against you (i.e. in defensive mode when some one shooting at him, damage mode when no body is looking at him and speed mode when they are rushing).

However, if you look closely, when all three drones have their effect active. Crisis will usually come in last in a 1 vs 1 fight. Take defender as an example, it essentially has the same effect as Crisis in defensive mode, BUT, defender can use boosted damage but not Crisis.

 

If you really want to nerf Crisis, increase the cooldown of switching modes (it is now 2 sec in lv 0, and reduced to 0.5 sec when fully upgraded) is a more appropriate way. Besides, the Devs has to keep Crisis powerful and superior than the rest of the drones so that they can make money out of it.

[alkyng 3,080]

26 minutes ago, FrozenRailgun said:

6 seconds still makes a difference between life or death. It is meant to be situation, like Booster.

If it was 10x armor, then yes. But it's just 1.5x (compared to DA). Also let's assume I'm about to die and I used my Defender in last 6s, it wont benefit me that much, because my health is about to deplete. Let's assume it's on 25% health bar, the Defender wont increase it that much to make me immune. If I have 25% of my Viking it will be 725 and with Defender it will be around 1100, nothing to be honest.  Double Damage mechanics differ too much from Double Armor mechanics. Though they're seems identical / isomers in the game, but two different mechanics.

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 hours ago, FrozenRailgun said:

3 seconds of souped up damage but its defensive cousin lasts almost 7x longer???? Not balanced either...

Booster does not need any more time than that.  It's a one-shot one-kill ambush.  It is irrelevant how long it lasts compared to Defender when it can insta-kill Defender.  Defender activates DA and drives for 10 seconds then gets shot and killed by Booster.  That other 20 seconds becomes a non-factor.

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, Aegis said:

If you really want to nerf Crisis, increase the cooldown of switching modes (it is now 2 sec in lv 0, and reduced to 0.5 sec when fully upgraded) is a more appropriate way. Besides, the Devs has to keep Crisis powerful and superior than the rest of the drones so that they can make money out of it.

It's the goofy amount of speed that makes crisis OP.  an EXTRA 70% is just too much.

IN CTF, RGBY and Assault battles hulls like Hopper+Crisis score easily.  Not because they are outshooting defenders or out-defending them.  It's because it moves so fast it's almost impossible to counter.  Especially when it can leap half of some maps and cap instantly.

There's a reason DD does +100%, DA reduces damage by half and SB only gives a 40% boost.  Because speed throws off some battle-modes a lot.

The speed boost bonus on Crisis needs to be lowered significantly.  Nerf the speed bonus from Crisis from 70% down to 40% for a net 80% when SB activated.

[thunderhunter123 741]

I feel that only the speed of Crisis drone is over-powered.

The extra damage and armor of the Drone is not as much as Booster and Defender.

 

But the speed of Crisis is so much more than Trickster Drone.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

20 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Booster does not need any more time than that.  It's a one-shot one-kill ambush.  It is irrelevant how long it lasts compared to Defender when it can insta-kill Defender.  Defender activates DA and drives for 10 seconds then gets shot and killed by Booster.  That other 20 seconds becomes a non-factor.

Fine... how about this for Booster? Reduce its effect to 3x damage, lasting 3 seconds like now but consumes only 1 additional Boosted Power when triggering it?

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, FrozenRailgun said:

Fine... how about this for Booster? Reduce its effect to 3x damage, lasting 3 seconds like now but consumes only 1 additional Boosted Power when triggering it?

Are you suggesting these changes because Booster is OP?

[Akame 4,591]

Umm, did people forget the abomination of defender? If we add this, let's just make sure defender drone players cannot repair too right?

Point to note, Crisis get's 3rd partied very easily on non max armor modes; hence booster/defenders usually dominating most games where speed is not required.

It's usually people who have never really used crisis that think it's something is crazy op, but how does one forget defender? In my eyes; Defender and Booster need an initial adjustment, and then crisis accordingly.

Note; 1 crisis hopper will still not be able to always cap flags in a balanced game, a horde of them however can do so, but that's not crisis, it's groups and matchmakings issue, the same effect can also occur with a horde of defender/booster groups.

[Akame 4,591]

This is something I sent somewhere; 

Spoiler

 I shall start off by explaining the main issue currently at hand, Booster has a mad output for initial spawn 3s, then becomes normal till the player can pick up a BD or gets EMP'd and can resupply up. Defender has a great damage reduction for a good 20s, paired with modules, makes it hard for many players to deal damage to these players. And then Crisis being the weird one. Currently I see Trickster as balanced along with the maximum speed counterpart of Crisis.

Now the aim of the rework is to make the drone simpler, balanced, and workable in terms where a Booster and Defender player of the same drone level, will have a balanced face off rather than a mismatch till their downtime durations. Crisis will follow the same where it's max damage mode matches Booster and its max armor mode matches defender, but it still has the ability to switch between both modes effectively in most cases.

Booster key changes/values:

• Level 0 provides 20% Bonus, Level 20 provides 50% Bonus
• Lasts for the whole duration (30s), similar to trickster
• Consumes 1 additional supply instead of 2  (this change may not be needed)
• At level 8, this drone will will let the player deal more damage than a Level 20 normal drone.
• Stat breakdown:
  Spoiler

  

• Comparison to a control drone:
  Spoiler

  

   

Defender key changes/values:

• Level 0 provides 20 bonus armor, Level 20 provides 50 bonus armor
• Lasts for the whole duration (30s), similar to trickster
• Consumes 1 additional supply instead of 2  (this change may not be needed)
• At level 8, this drone will will let the player tank better than a Level 20 normal drone.
• Stat breakdown:
  Spoiler

  

• Comparison to a control drone:
  Spoiler

  

Crisis key changes/values:

• Max damage = 250% damage, Level 0 = 25% Bonus damage, Level 20 = 50% Bonus damage (same as current)
• Max armor = 250 armor (includes default 100 armor for unarmored tank), Level 0 = 25 bonus armor, Level 20 = 50 bonus armor, (follows the damage step changes as above)
• Max speed = 210% speed (stays the same)
• Uses 2 addition supplies per mode switch of the supply switched to
• Retains same switch speed as current.

Crisis as a level 0 will have a higher marginal bonus than defender/booster, 5%/5 armor, though I think this is fair considering it can maintain only 1 mode, and at Level 0, the switch speed is 2s, not a big deal to face.

 

Do note; this may have sideeffects; but what we need is a full duration boost rather then a period of time big boost which players can't face. As far as values go, I think 50 bonus is the legal highest for a full duration I could give without killing off the drone's purpose. Any higher would make them pretty powerful.

I haven't looked into crisis speed nerf for now, though I have always aknowledged that it needs to be reduced, but as far as armor and damage effects are considered this is what I think should happen to make the top tier drones a bit more bearable for players that use drones that do not buff armor/damage.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

11 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Are you suggesting these changes because Booster is OP?

Yes. I used it myself (as 0/20, can imagine what 20/20 will be like) and hell, it is dang OP. How is it not OP when you said that Booster can overpower Defender?

 

Literally from your words:

Quote

Booster does not need any more time than that.  It's a one-shot one-kill ambush.  It is irrelevant how long it lasts compared to Defender when it can insta-kill Defender.  Defender activates DA and drives for 10 seconds then gets shot and killed by Booster.  That other 20 seconds becomes a non-factor.

Quote

And Booster already beats Defender.

 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

4 hours ago, Akame said:

• Level 0 provides 20% Bonus, Level 20 provides 50% Bonus
• Lasts for the whole duration (30s), similar to trickster
• Consumes 1 additional supply instead of 2  (this change may not be needed)

I was thinking something different than that, as I mentioned it elsewhere in this topic. But if you are nerfing its potency from 4x to 2.5x, I strongly believe that it should consume only 1 additional manual supply or else the trade-off will not be worth it. But I would take your idea regardless.

5 hours ago, Akame said:

• Level 0 provides 20 bonus armor, Level 20 provides 50 bonus armor
• Lasts for the whole duration (30s), similar to trickster
• Consumes 1 additional supply instead of 2  (this change may not be needed)

Similarly to Booster but now I can see Defender can compete with its offensive and evasive cousin without one overpowering the another. Again, it should consume only 1 additonal manual supply and we'll be good to go.

5 hours ago, Akame said:

• Max damage = 250% damage, Level 0 = 25% Bonus damage, Level 20 = 50% Bonus damage (same as current)
• Max armor = 250 armor (includes default 100 armor for unarmored tank), Level 0 = 25 bonus armor, Level 20 = 50 bonus armor, (follows the damage step changes as above)
• Max speed = 210% speed (stays the same)
• Uses 2 addition supplies per mode switch of the supply switched to
• Retains same switch speed as current.

Do you mean that at 20/20 (of your idea of rebalancing Crisis), it can still juggle through manual supplies every 0.5 seconds like now or what? 

[Akame 4,591]

1 hour ago, FrozenRailgun said:

 

Do you mean that at 20/20 (of your idea of rebalancing Crisis), it can still juggle through manual supplies every 0.5 seconds like now or what? 

If Booster and Defender get a perma 30s boost, then by all means crisis if matches it at max, is fine with the current supply switch speed, hence a booster and defender can use the counterpart supply too, the cost of supply switch is still high for crisis though, it will not last most 1v1's against a booster/defender, doesn't really do so now either tbh unless u pair it with some status augment, but that doesnt make it crisis which is providing the edge.

Back to the main point, Booster and Defender should be matched. Matched in terms that no matter what duration they are at, they will do the same damage if they are at the same upgrades.

Hence 250% damage facing 250 armor = 100% damage only, also known as a balance.

Booster currently does 400% damage for 3s, and then it's flat out normal until u refresh with a drop box.

Defender provides 300 armor for 20s, considering players can avoid damage for 3s, defender is far superior.

The graph shows and overall damage over time graph for Booster vs a Defender, note; x axis starts at 1s, yes Boosters can deal a lotta damage, but they also end up suffering to defender players more than usual. Especially against Heavy hulls and/or modules

Spoiler

Also most augments can only use Booster for essentially 1 big shot, examples being blunderbuss, LCR, and a fair few others. Defender meanwhile reduces a lot of 3rd party damage, and cannot be really encountered for the 20s duration.

When it comes to an actual face off, a skilled defender will easily outdo a skilled booster, which would easily outdo a skilled crisis player, though a lot can also depend on what turret/aug etc they use.

-

I used to use Defender a lot, but I literally felt like a God. I disliked that feeling so I completely stopped using it, but ofc many will use it to feel like a god too. I do use Booster occasionally, along with crisis, both have their uses, but I can tell you that it's much easier and reliable to play with Booster than crisis.

Aside from the big drones; I do use Hyperion, Blaster and Camper often too, Hyperion needs a change to make it feel worth upgrading compared to defender/booster. Well we all know a fair few drones could use revamping.

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, FrozenRailgun said:

Yes. I used it myself (as 0/20, can imagine what 20/20 will be like) and hell, it is dang OP. How is it not OP when you said that Booster can overpower Defender?

 

Literally from your words:

 

I know what I think.  I just wanted to know where YOU were coming from.

Could not tell if it was still part of the 6 seconds thing - where Defender would be useless.