declined Suggestion for crisis drone

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

So don't try to tell me Hunter/Trickster can't compete with Hopper - it most certainly can. Trickster has changed the game, and made many other hulls viable in CTF, but particularly Hunter.

Well, Hopper can also use Trickster, right?

Crisis by itself was not the problem.  Else players would be complaining about hornet and Wasp doing the same thing.  They are not.

So going forward I'm sure there will also be more Hopper-Trickster dominating the capture games as well.  Don't see as many YET because those players were too busy upgrading Crisis.  And the current mechanics of Trickster are relatively new.  Takes quite a while to upgrade a new drone.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

4 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Well, Hopper can also use Trickster, right?

Crisis by itself was not the problem.  Else players would be complaining about hornet and Wasp doing the same thing.  They are not.

So going forward I'm sure there will also be more Hopper-Trickster dominating the capture games as well.  Don't see as many YET because those players were too busy upgrading Crisis.  And the current mechanics of Trickster are relatively new.  Takes quite a while to upgrade a new drone.

Hopper is great with Trickster, but being a light hull it is quite fragile without the extra armor offered by Defender or on-demand by Crisis. Whereas with Hunter you are still quite fast, but have the advantage of medium hull health - and Hunter's EMP and stun overdrive becomes very powerful when you are that fast, with melee turrets.
 

You are better at returning flags than Hopper, better at getting kills, and still good for taking flags. If you have Hunter stun immunity especially, as I have, it is a Hopper killer.

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

You are better at returning flags than Hopper

A lot would depend on the map.  Hopper can get to a lot of places Hunter can't.

And it's less health can be offset by it's ability to get under cover faster than Hunter.  Again - depends on the map.

[1-4-ALL 56]

10 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

So don't try to tell me Hunter/Trickster can't compete with Hopper - it most certainly can.

Cant be bothered to go over all your points so I will just say a few words, YOUR WRONG.

Come against me in battle and your not getting away with my flag , not unless you have serious back up, are you use the flying hack. 

Was in a highways , we won 4-0, we had 2 flying hacks on our team, guess who got all 4 flags. 

No one will ever convince me that this legal cheat is not THE game changer in cap mode battles. 

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

4 hours ago, 1-4-ALL said:

Cant be bothered to go over all your points so I will just say a few words, YOUR WRONG.

Come against me in battle and your not getting away with my flag , not unless you have serious back up, are you use the flying hack. 

Was in a highways , we won 4-0, we had 2 flying hacks on our team, guess who got all 4 flags. 

No one will ever convince me that this legal cheat is not THE game changer in cap mode battles. 

Alright it's on :) . Arrange a PRO battle with random team mates each side and let's see the score - I'll take my Hunter/Trickster and you can use Hopper or whatever you want.

In the screenshots I posted I was getting equal or more flags for my team than the Hoppers - for instance in the Parma game I got the only flag, whereas the Hoppers in my team got none, and I got the most returns as Hunter/Trickster is about the best combo for returning that there currently is. As well as the fact I can also more easily get points from kills, since my combo is stronger in straight combat. So Trickster has made other hulls viable in capture modes, the battles I've just posted about alone prove that you're incorrect.

EDIT: I admit of course that Hopper is the best hull in 12v12 or 14v14 CTF and RGB, but capture battles of that size are just stupid, and not fun for anyone whether they use Hopper or not. But in smaller battles, other hulls can be equally competitive.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

30 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

A lot would depend on the map.  Hopper can get to a lot of places Hunter can't.

And it's less health can be offset by it's ability to get under cover faster than Hunter.  Again - depends on the map.

Hopper's overdrive allowing it to bypass terrain does give it some huge advantages, especially on certain maps with limited entry points to the flag such as Wolfenstein. However when it comes to returning, with the 1 second stun it is certainly no longer the best, if team mates are on hand to help with the flag when their carrier is stunned. With Hunter-Trickster you will get back the flag much more often in a stalemate situation.

[1-4-ALL 56]

20 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

I'll take my Hunter/Trickster and you can use Hopper

Are you for real, me using the legal cheat  do I look like a mod are admin, jeez give me some credit.

I'm not playing useless pro battles. You no what I meant in my post. The flying cheat has no comparison when it comes to capture modes, I don't care what you use to try and defend against it, it will inevitably fail and the hack will cap, they always do.

Was in a CTF and each team had the enemy flag, guess who had theirs and guess were he was keeping it safe, on top of a wall behind a billboard, we couldn't get to him and had no magnum on our side. The legal hack just has way to many advantages over normal tracked hulls, nothing you ever say will convince me otherwise.   

Adios, this is becoming boring.

[Debt-Collector 1,617]

7 minutes ago, 1-4-ALL said:

Are you for real, me using the legal cheat  do I look like a mod are admin, jeez give me some credit.

I'm not playing useless pro battles. You no what I meant in my post. The flying cheat has no comparison when it comes to capture modes, I don't care what you use to try and defend against it, it will inevitably fail and the hack will cap, they always do.

Was in a CTF and each team had the enemy flag, guess who had theirs and guess were he was keeping it safe, on top of a wall behind a billboard, we couldn't get to him and had no magnum on our side. The legal hack just has way to many advantages over normal tracked hulls, nothing you ever say will convince me otherwise.   

Adios, this is becoming boring.

Oh dont try to run away from the situation. Dont just bark and no bite otherwise I just see that you are to stubborn to admit that your wrong. Or trying to pass the bucket. Though just starting random arguments without logic behind your statements doesnt look too good for you either.

[1-4-ALL 56]

Yo mystic I have you on ignore because your nauseatingly boring, just thought id let you no in case that post was directed at me.

And by the way you noob, it's pass the buck not BUCKET   best laugh I have had all week.

Your very funny, in a simple kind of way, ta ta. 

[Debt-Collector 1,617]

19 minutes ago, 1-4-ALL said:

Yo mystic I have you on ignore because your nauseatingly boring, just thought id let you no in case that post was directed at me.

And by the way you noob, it's pass the buck not BUCKET   best laugh I have had all week.

Your very funny, in a simple kind of way, ta ta. 

Yep i can confirm that you are now cosmic666. The familiar attitude and statements from your recent posts and more. Unless its just a huge coincidence.  

[1-4-ALL 56]

It's a shame I cant ignore you on the forum index as well, cosmic who??? Think you are losing it, which is also funny, ta ta for the last time mr boring.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, 1-4-ALL said:

Are you for real, me using the legal cheat  do I look like a mod are admin, jeez give me some credit.

I'm not playing useless pro battles. You no what I meant in my post. The flying cheat has no comparison when it comes to capture modes, I don't care what you use to try and defend against it, it will inevitably fail and the hack will cap, they always do.

Was in a CTF and each team had the enemy flag, guess who had theirs and guess were he was keeping it safe, on top of a wall behind a billboard, we couldn't get to him and had no magnum on our side. The legal hack just has way to many advantages over normal tracked hulls, nothing you ever say will convince me otherwise.   

Adios, this is becoming boring.

I totally agree that Hoppers being able to get to inaccessible locations is a problem - those zones should be made to give an automatic self-destruct in Matchmaking battles.

However aside from that, Hunter is still easily able to compete with Hopper in any CTF battle 10v10 and below. Played a few more games today with Hunter/Trickster/Isida, result: all wins with 3 stars for me, beating Hoppers on my team and the enemy team on score who had superior GS. Easy returns with Hunter overdrive and Trickster as usual, with quite a few flag captures:

 

Spoiler

 

vs Tesla (alzoor)

Even managed to win a 6v6 vs a 9999 vampire Isida (currently the most broken augment):

 

So you can tell me Hopper is unstoppable - and yes it is super strong - but my results are telling me otherwise, that it is certainly not the only hull that can compete in CTF or Rugby in the current meta - and I'm using far from maxed out equipment. I don't see a Hopper having anywhere near the power to return flags which Hunter currently has.

[LambSauce 1,894]

Who cares about Hopper’s stun, or about returning flags? Those aren’t problematic here, it’s the ridiculous jumps you can do with Crisis and now Trickster - allowing you to cover a good portion of the map in no time. This was and is still the main issue with Hopper.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, LambSauce said:

Who cares about Hopper’s stun, or about returning flags? Those aren’t problematic here, it’s the ridiculous jumps you can do with Crisis and now Trickster - allowing you to cover a good portion of the map in no time. This was and is still the main issue with Hopper.

The ability to stay in the air for an excessively long time* (EDIT) is caused by Hopper's Lightweight hull augments and high recoil turrets such as Rico with Plasma-Torch. Lightweight was never intended for actual combat, only for parkour, so the best solution to this is to prevent Lightweight hull augments being used in anything other than Parkour battles - which was what they were intended for. That would limit Hopper's ability to do ridiculous jumps which some are capable of, with this hull augment and Crisis, and also limit wall-climbing ability somewhat.

Also, an important part of CTF is returning flags - if you want your team to win, and be able to move on to capturing more flags. So I think if a hull is particularly good at returning, which Hunter is, that has to count for something. It is almost as good for capturing and much better at returning than Hopper in the current meta.

EDIT: Not indefinitely * thanks to Lambsauce for pointing that out.

[wolverine848 13,097]

38 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Played a few more games today with Hunter/Trickster/Isida

Why Isida?

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

29 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Why Isida?

Mainly because Isida is my only Mk8 melee turret, but even if I had other melee turrets at max it would probably still often be my choice, it is also awesome with Hopper in capture modes also - I found it significantly more powerful even than EMP Gauss for CTF.

I was using Isida Broadband which is super good for killing people near ramps and ledges etc, you tend to get few protections against it, and you can heal team mates if you need to to help flag carriers, or in any situation - and it gives you extra charge towards your next overdrive. Broadband or adrenaline are both great augments, but Broadband is super good for maps with many ramps and different levels of terrain. You can also shoot Hoppers as they are coming down from or going into the air due to its massive cone angle, which helps a lot sometimes.

You want to use a melee turret with Hunter/Trickster in capture modes as you want something that will deal a lot of damage at close range with no self-damage, you might as well since you can close gaps so fast, and also Hunter has such a melee orientated overdrive. Short range turrets could also possibly work, but I don't have any of those maxed out. The ultimate augment would of course be the mighty vampire Isida, but I don't have access to that.

[LambSauce 1,894]

54 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

The ability to stay in the air indefinitely is caused by Hopper's Lightweight hull augments and high recoil turrets such as Rico with Plasma-Torch. Lightweight was never intended for actual combat, only for parkour, so the best solution to this is to prevent Lightweight hull augments being used in anything other than Parkour battles - which was what they were intended for. That would limit Hopper's ability to do ridiculous jumps which some are capable of, with this hull augment and Crisis, and also limit wall-climbing ability somewhat.

Also, an important part of CTF is returning flags - if you want your team to win, and be able to move on to capturing more flags. So I think if a hull is particularly good at returning, which Hunter is, that has to count for something. It is almost as good for capturing and much better at returning than Hopper in the current meta.

You can still make ridiculous jumps without Lightweight construction. In fact the majority of Hopper/Crisis players use either Stun or Freeze Immunity.

Crisis is OP with Hopper - that is undeniable. I’m saying this because that’s what the topic is about.

In an actual battle the Hopper/Crisis will easily steal the flag before any enemies reach its own flag. The whole issue here is that with this combo you can finish games incredibly quickly, especially if you have fast internet and manage to take the flag before most of the enemy team has even joined the battle.

And by the way, you can’t stay in the air indefinitely, but I believe that was simply a lexical mistake on your part.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

41 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

You can still make ridiculous jumps without Lightweight construction. In fact the majority of Hopper/Crisis players use either Stun or Freeze Immunity.

Crisis is OP with Hopper - that is undeniable. I’m saying this because that’s what the topic is about.

In an actual battle the Hopper/Crisis will easily steal the flag before any enemies reach its own flag. The whole issue here is that with this combo you can finish games incredibly quickly, especially if you have fast internet and manage to take the flag before most of the enemy team has even joined the battle.

And by the way, you can’t stay in the air indefinitely, but I believe that was simply a lexical mistake on your part.

OK you can't stay in the air indefinitely, fair point, but you can stay in the air for a very long time - from one flag to the other in Berlin for instance, with Hopper/Lightweight/Plasma Torch - that is certainly too long for balance in MM, and lightweight should be banned from non-Parkour games. I suppose they can still jump quite far without it.

All the same, perhaps Matchmaking is not putting me against the top-tier of Hoppers due to my low gearscore, but I am not having a particular problem winning against Hoppers - even with Crisis - with other hulls since the introduction of Trickster drone. Crisis Hoppers tend to fall over fast if you can get them in a situation where they need to actually fight you - and while they can get to the flag first, they can't capture if you also have their flag. Then you give the flag to your team mate and go and get the flag back - which is what I tend to do and it seems to work pretty well, usually.

Hopper should perhaps have its speed reduced to a certain maximum when its overdrive is activated, to limit the maximum jump height, I agree they can jump too far with speed boosting drones. But all the same, I'm still winning battles with Trickster so I'm not really personally having too much of a problem. One of the things which really helps me perhaps is that I have stun immunity for 3 different hulls - that is a huge game changer against Hopper. With Stun immunity they can't take flags off you, which neuters Hopper's abilities by a massive amount - as well of course as making Hunter's overdrive non-interruptible and turning Hunter into an anti-Hopper machine. Without stun immunity, things are certainly much harder.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Mainly because Isida is my only Mk8 melee turret, but even if I had other melee turrets at max it would probably still often be my choice, it is also awesome with Hopper in capture modes also - I found it significantly more powerful even than EMP Gauss for CTF.

I was using Isida Broadband which is super good for killing people near ramps and ledges etc, you tend to get few protections against it, and you can heal team mates if you need to to help flag carriers, or in any situation - and it gives you extra charge towards your next overdrive. Broadband or adrenaline are both great augments, but Broadband is super good for maps with many ramps and different levels of terrain. You can also shoot Hoppers as they are coming down from or going into the air due to its massive cone angle, which helps a lot sometimes.

You want to use a melee turret with Hunter/Trickster in capture modes as you want something that will deal a lot of damage at close range with no self-damage, you might as well since you can close gaps so fast, and also Hunter has such a melee orientated overdrive. Short range turrets could also possibly work, but I don't have any of those maxed out. The ultimate augment would of course be the mighty vampire Isida, but I don't have access to that.

Why are you worried so much about killing when you want to capture?  Getting in close-up and dirty should not be your priority IMO.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

16 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Why are you worried so much about killing when you want to capture?  Getting in close-up and dirty should not be your priority IMO.

Well killing the defenders tends to help sometimes  . I mean if you're charging in to get the flag, sometimes it is necessary to kill people along the way. Also you need to do as much damage as possible to return - and then you can go and get a new flag after your team has got a capture. As well as getting flags kills give you score and charge towards your next overdrive, so being able to kill if you need to is very helpful. You can kill people in about 2 nanoseconds with Isida, especially when EMP'd - so why not.

That's the good thing about Hunter that you are a capable fighter when you need to be, as well as good at capturing. As you can see it seems to work for me fine so far in the battles I've been playing lately - whatever gets you the win and 3 stars, all score counts.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

4 hours ago, 1-4-ALL said:

It's a shame I cant ignore you on the forum index as well, cosmic who??? Think you are losing it, which is also funny, ta ta for the last time mr boring.

You sure you are not the same person?

Because I am seeing those usernames having similar patterns. 

And.... The tone, wordings and the language that were used from those posts were very similar to each other.

For example, how they refered Hopper. Those accounts used the term "flying hacks", "flying cheat", "flying monkeys" to describe its overdrive.

[Debt-Collector 1,617]

6 minutes ago, FrozenRailgun said:

You sure you are not the same person?

Because I am seeing those usernames having similar patterns. 

And.... The tone, wordings and the language that were used from those different account were very similar to each other.

The plot thickens. XD

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

5 minutes ago, FrozenRailgun said:

You sure you are not the same person?

Because I am seeing those usernames having similar patterns. 

And.... The tone, wordings and the language that were used from those different account were very similar to each other.

It isn't even a question that 1-4-ALL is Cosmic, does he actually deny this :P ? This forum is small enough that you can't really hide who you are lol, people's individual ways of talking are too distinctive - especially Cosmic's. Unless he tried super hard to deliberately talk in a totally different way - and threw in a few posts about how he likes to play with Hopper from time to time to throw us off :P . I don't think I even need to try to explain how it is obviously Cosmic, I think everyone can work that out for themselves lol.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

2 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

The plot thickens. XD

 

6 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

It isn't even a question that 1-4-ALL is Cosmic, does he actually deny this :P ? This forum is small enough that you can't really hide who you are lol, people's individual ways of talking are too distinctive - especially Cosmic's. Unless he tried super hard to deliberately talk in a totally different way - and threw in a few posts about how he likes to play with Hopper from time to time to throw us off :P . I don't think I even need to try to explain how it is obviously Cosmic, I think everyone can work that out for themselves lol.

Welp, juicy evidences are here (look who used those terms the most):

Searched for 'flying cheat ' in All Content (tankiforum.com)

Searched for 'flying hack' in All Content (tankiforum.com)

And look at the usernames (and how they lay out), do they look like they belong to separate person?

Profile — SONIC-BOOM (tankionline.com)

Profile — DOUBLE-6 (tankionline.com)

Profile — CLASS-ACT (tankionline.com)

Profile — 1-4-ALL (tankionline.com)

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

47 minutes ago, FrozenRailgun said:

 

Welp, juicy evidences are here (look who used those terms the most):

Searched for 'flying cheat ' in All Content (tankiforum.com)

Searched for 'flying hack' in All Content (tankiforum.com)

And look at the usernames (and how they lay out), do they look like they belong to separate person?

Profile — SONIC-BOOM (tankionline.com)

Profile — DOUBLE-6 (tankionline.com)

Profile — CLASS-ACT (tankionline.com)

Profile — 1-4-ALL (tankionline.com)

Great evidence gathering Detective Inspector FrozenRailgun  . Conclusive - I declare the defendant guilty as charged, and sentenced to 500 hours Hopper usage before they can swap to any other hull.