Think Tanks

[lssimo 1,559]

Let's try this kind of topic...

This topic is for tankers that like to put on their thinking helmets from time to time and use it to think deep thoughts.

Here you can ask deep questions, share a deep thought, and get deep with the discussion or discussions. (sorry for too many deeps)

All related to the game of course.

So let's put on our thinking helmets and try to have interesting discussions for everyone to read and/or participate.

[lssimo 1,559]

I think I'll start with what I think is the most important thing these days which is the diminishing number of players in the game and the complaint that the game is becoming too complicated for many players, whom most of them happen to be F2Players, which are as a demographic very important to the game because they fill battles.

The big questions are:

• Where is the game is headed?
• And what should happen to get to a better outcome?

I see that my questions come with premises, but I think I'm right to use them and I think many will agree with me, but I could be wrong.

So just to be sure we are on the same page of this thing let's go back to the beginning and also consider these other questions:

• Are player numbers really diminishing?
• Is the game really bad for many F2Players?

[E_polypterus 2,374]

 

14 minutes ago, lssimo said:

Are player numbers really diminishing?

I’m not sure but facts from certain

players seems to say so

14 minutes ago, lssimo said:

• Is the game really bad for many F2Players?

I don’t think it is very bad, but I haven’t played the game actively for a long time so I’m just saying by my assumptions and looking at all these are missions, the weekly giveaways/weekends (maybe weekly) events from time to time, the battle pass and seasonal discounts showing up in the N&A section often. Doesn’t seem so P2W then, in terms of getting crystals and supplies that is. 

But it takes time to farm crystals anyhow, and with new OP additions or when stuff which haven’t been nerfed yet are still kept untouched, they would be spammed by P2W players who get them instantly.

And of course there’s the immunity augment plague as well which is purely P2W in my opinion. Drones seem to be upgraded well enough by F2P players as well in fairly moderate level, at least by what I saw in the majority of the posts in the forum. So their OP nature wouldn’t matter much then maybe.

[alkyng 3,080]

Honestly from the second I read the title I thought it's just a silly suggestion , like the one who suggested before "dancing tanks". But no, I misunderstood

[Catbird 117]

1 hour ago, lssimo said:

Is the game really bad for many F2Players?

It is possible to get legendary level augments as a F2P just by completing daily missions every day. The fact that this is possible at all is insane, when you look at the economy of some other mobile games.

There is a fixed amount of turrets in Tanki Online, new ones are rarely added, and there is an effort to make them all useable. Regardless of the success of this effort, they are at least trying to make a balanced gaming experience.

I've played a P2W game before where new equipment was added every two months that instantly made whatever was strongest before irrelevant. There was no attempt at balance. Special events giving access to OP equipment were regularly offered, but completing them required incredible degrees of grinding and dedication with unforgiving margins. And once it was over, it was over, no other way to get it. The closest thing Tanki has done to this is the Island mini-game, but I would say so far the completion of these mini-games has not been critical to performing well in the game.

Even the strongest equipments in Tanki can be countered to some extent with what one gets as a F2P. Crisis comes with vulnerabilities built in. It is true that occasionally a monster Hopper+Crisis user will appear and leave everyone in the literal dust, but the "balance through scarcity" strategy Tanki has been using makes this rare enough that it will not be a factor in your average battle, and that sometimes a team can fight back.

I've been time and again frustrated by updates that made life harder for F2Ps. More expensive augments, tankoin-only hull augments, broken container exclusives, making drones mandatory, tankoin-only protection slots... But to be fair, other times I was very surprised: free daily containers giving easy supplies and crystals, more generous weekly containers, a battle pass that can be finished easily, making Brutus dirt cheap, (eventually) nerfing Hopper and anything that got too strong.... At the end of the day, the game remains concerningly F2P-friendly in its current iteration, and I cannot wait (not) to see how that's going to change next. The day I feel I no longer have a chance, I'll leave. But for now, life is good.

  

1 hour ago, lssimo said:

Are player numbers really diminishing?

If you use the number of views on the V-LOG as a proxy, it definitively seems to have decreased.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Catbird

[lssimo 1,559]

13 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

I’m not sure but facts from certain

players seems to say so

     I don’t think it is very bad, but I haven’t played the game actively for a long time so I’m just saying by my assumptions and looking at all these are missions, the weekly giveaways/weekends (maybe weekly) events from time to time, the battle pass and seasonal discounts showing up in the N&A section often. Doesn’t seem so P2W then, in terms of getting crystals and supplies that is.
     But it takes time to farm crystals anyhow, and with new OP additions or when stuff which haven’t been nerfed yet are still kept untouched, they would be spammed by P2W players who get them instantly.

     And of course there’s the immunity augment plague as well which is purely P2W in my opinion. Drones seem to be upgraded well enough by F2P players as well in fairly moderate level, at least by what I saw in the majority of the posts in the forum. So their OP nature wouldn’t matter much then maybe.

Drones are very expensive and I think we are investing too many crystals on many of them, but it feels like we have to invest on many of them because they are updating them constantly, yet at the same time I'm afraid that at some point drones will get weakened to make room for another expensive feature, but I don't know about it. So one other question for us would be:

• How much room Tanki has for more features?

12 hours ago, Catbird said:

It is possible to get legendary level augments as a F2P just by completing daily missions every day. The fact that this is possible at all is insane, when you look at the economy of some other mobile games.

There is a fixed amount of turrets in Tanki Online, new ones are rarely added, and there is an effort to make them all useable. Regardless of the success of this effort, they are at least trying to make a balanced gaming experience.

I've played a P2W game before where new equipment was added every two months that instantly made whatever was strongest before irrelevant. There was no attempt at balance. Special events giving access to OP equipment were regularly offered, but completing them required incredible degrees of grinding and dedication with unforgiving margins. And once it was over, it was over, no other way to get it. The closest thing Tanki has done to this is the Island mini-game, but I would say so far the completion of these mini-games has not been critical to performing well in the game.

Even the strongest equipments in Tanki can be countered to some extent with what one gets as a F2P. Crisis comes with vulnerabilities built in. It is true that occasionally a monster Hopper+Crisis user will appear and leave everyone in the literal dust, but the "balance through scarcity" strategy Tanki has been using makes this rare enough that it will not be a factor in your average battle, and that sometimes a team can fight back.

I've been time and again frustrated by updates that made life harder for F2Ps. More expensive augments, tankoin-only hull augments, broken container exclusives, making drones mandatory, tankoin-only protection slots... But to be fair, other times I was very surprised: free daily containers giving easy supplies and crystals, more generous weekly containers, a battle pass that can be finished easily, making Brutus dirt cheap, (eventually) nerfing Hopper and anything that got too strong.... At the end of the day, the game remains concerningly F2P-friendly in its current iteration, and I cannot wait (not) to see how that's going to change next. The day I feel I no longer have a chance, I'll leave. But for now, life is good.

  

If you use the number of views on the V-LOG as a proxy, it definitively seems to have decreased.

Thank you for your well thought out reply.

You are giving many at least me a good perpective from an experienced and knowledgeable player and seems like you are happy of how you did so far.

I mostly visit the News section and I see mostly complaints, that maybe made me fearful of ranking up too much, I even abandoned some mid-high rank accounts, but that in part to lags.

With replies like yours maybe I'll see the game differently, who knows. I do complain too about one sided battles, 15 minute duration, rank bracket... mmm, maybe I should paint myself as a complainer, because then it will be harder to complain.

[IMPULSE-WARRIOR 161]

13 hours ago, Catbird said:

they are at least trying to make a balanced gaming experience.

Wrong.

 

13 hours ago, Catbird said:

nerfing Hopper and anything that got too strong..

Wrong again.

 

[readyfireaim 369]

1 hour ago, lssimo said:

Drones are very expensive and I think we are investing too many crystals on many of them, but it feels like we have to invest on many of them because they are updating them constantly, yet at the same time I'm afraid that at some point drones will get weakened to make room for another expensive feature, but I don't know about it. So one other question for us would be:

• How much room Tanki has for more features?

Well, I mean, I just upgraded Brutus. It feels like a pretty safe bet, because there's not much that can be done with it. So that's a possibility.

As for your question, I'd say that they have a lot more room. They can add new turrets, new hulls, new drones, new game modes and mechanics... but that's not necessarily a good thing. Because most of these things will probably originate as buyer-oriented updates, and since when is that a good sign? I think the fact that they can implement a bunch of new features doesn't necessarily mean that those new features will be good for anyone.

[lssimo 1,559]

On 11/27/2021 at 8:32 PM, readyfireaim said:

Well, I mean, I just upgraded Brutus. It feels like a pretty safe bet, because there's not much that can be done with it. So that's a possibility.

As for your question, I'd say that they have a lot more room. They can add new turrets, new hulls, new drones, new game modes and mechanics... but that's not necessarily a good thing. Because most of these things will probably originate as buyer-oriented updates, and since when is that a good sign? I think the fact that they can implement a bunch of new features doesn't necessarily mean that those new features will be good for anyone.

When I said more features I meant things other than Drones, new Hulls, new Turrets. As an example, things like Spiders, or second Drones. (just an example, as this would be bad ideas)

Watching the V-Log, the part where they show the new interface, Hazel talks about the Nuclear Supply and that at the bottom of the OD icon it will show how many Nuclear Supplies you have.

I think they will make Nuclear Supplies more accesible to buyers. I think the very few they are given today is just to condition us. I think there is little more room there, very little, but many of us won't like it.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:39 AM, lssimo said:

Are player numbers really diminishing?

Depends on the time interval you consider. Is the number of players lower than what it was five years ago? Yes. It is it lower than what it was a year ago?

Not really.

Edited November 29, 2021 by ThirdOnion

[lssimo 1,559]

1 hour ago, ThirdOnion said:

Depends on the time interval you consider. Is the number of players lower than what it was five years ago? Yes. It is it lower than what it was a year ago?

Not really.

I extrapolated last year's section from 9/8 to 27/11 onto this year's section for the same dates, and this is what it looks like.

To me it looks like we are down around 1k players of that type at those times. In total we could be down 10-20k players logging in daily.

Edited November 29, 2021 by lssimo

[lssimo 1,559]

Question...

• How do you think the Crisis update. which will be implemented tomorrow, will affect the ongoing eSports Fund Event?

I'm asking this here to not cause any likely concerns in the eSports Fund Event topic.

[readyfireaim 369]

1 hour ago, lssimo said:

Question...

• How do you think the Crisis update. which will be implemented tomorrow, will affect the ongoing eSports Fund Event?

I'm asking this here to not cause any likely concerns in the eSports Fund Event topic.

At first I thought "Oh it's for sure going down. Wayyyyyy less people buying." But then I realized that not everyone is buying the bundles for Crisis. I wouldn't, if I had enough TK. I'd be looking for the fourth module slot. (Sadly I don't have the necessary Tankoins.)

The thing is, for buyers, if they don't have Crisis, they won't care about the update. Just go buy six hundred thousand RK's.

As for F2Pers, they probably will want Crisis pretty badly. Probably enough to still buy the bundles.

Overall, I think the sales will go down, but not as much as you would expect.

[Incorp 2,084]

20 hours ago, lssimo said:

Question...

• How do you think the Crisis update. which will be implemented tomorrow, will affect the ongoing eSports Fund Event?

I'm asking this here to not cause any likely concerns in the eSports Fund Event topic.

It will lessen the enthusiasm to buy bundles, and teach the players a lesson  that as soon as an OP thing got popularised, it gets nerfed. However the other rewards are still good

[lssimo 1,559]

19 minutes ago, Incorp said:

It will lessen the enthusiasm to buy bundles, and teach the players a lesson  that as soon as an OP thing got popularised, it gets nerfed. However the other rewards are still good

I think many buyers with deep pockets already have Crisis and Armadillo. I think the event is aimed at light buyers and non buyers that can spend some money, that's why they put somethings very attractive to them, which is Armadillo and Crisis, and Sloths too, but maybe they are sure the event will not reach that far.

They can put 1 Million Tankoins as a reward for a Level 50 that's beyong impossible, but that would be too obvious.

[lssimo 1,559]

Sometimes I think that just like I like winning and don't like losing, others will probably feel the same. So in a battle when we try to win, I don't know but, maybe we want the other team to lose? Here I don't know what to make of it.

Now even if we don't want the other team to lose, our actions are trying to make the other team lose, even if we don't think that's what we are doing.

Are we selfish when we try to win?

And what's the alternativa to all of this?