valid Issue with Micro Stun Augments and New Overdrive Activation Delay - Proposed Fix

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

(For this suggestion, I have decided to provide a TLDR summary version for those who don't want / have time to read long posts, and more detail in brackets for those who are willing to read it).

The Problem:

It occurs to me that following some recent changes to the game, quite a large new problem has arisen. The changes in question:

1. All overdrives now have a 1.1 second activation time.
2. Micro stun augments have now been added to the game (currently for the augments Stunning Missiles for Striker and Tectonic Plasma for Twins).

TLDR version: Now all overdrives have activation times, but we have new augments that apply stuns almost constantly, which therefore make these very important abilities impossible to activate, or very easily cancel and waste them. Overdrives are too important for this to happen - and also this is very unfair for overdrives which must be activated up close, such as Mammoth/Hunter or for melee turrets.

More explanation:

Spoiler

The issue is that since these new micro stun augments stun a target on a very frequent basis, casting an overdrive when not wearing stun immunity/ when not behind cover is nearly impossible with the new activation time (and very likely to be interrupted and therefore completely wasted) - and wearing stun immunity or being behind cover is not always possible or ideal, especially for melee turrets or Mammoth/Hunter. Given that overdrives are such a critical part of the game today, in my opinion such an important ability which takes so long to charge up should not be made unactivatable or be interrupted (and thus totally wasted) by a continuously applied ability such as micro stun. In the case of Tectonic Plasma for Twins, this can even happen accidently - with no thought on the user's part. This is especially unfair for melee turrets, or for Mammoth & Hunter, who MUST be up close to activate their overdrive, or if they activate when far away they will waste a significant portion of the effect.

Before these two changes were in the game, only Crusader and Hunter had overdrives with activation times. In addition to that, even for those two hulls, "traditional" stun augments, with longer stun duration, such as for Railgun / Smoky delivered stuns more infrequently, and so you could time your overdrive so that it would not be interrupted (unless you were up against more than one Stun augment).

For instance, Stun Rounds for Railgun fires every 3.92 seconds, with a 2 second stun - so after the stun is over, you have a window where you can get your overdrive off. Paralyzing Rounds for Smoky has a greatly reduced crit rate with a 2 second stun, so outside of supercharge, once you have just received a critical (provided you have enough health), you were safe to cast your overdrive.

But now with these new augments, this is not the case. The new Stunning Missiles / Tectonic Plasma casts stuns almost CONSTANTLY, and especially in the case of Tectonic Plasma it is basically impossible to get your overdrive off if you are not behind cover or wearing stun immunity. You often need to wear other immunities, and in many cases it is not viable to be in cover every time when activating your overdrive. As more of these micro stun augments will surely be added to the game, and now that ALL overdrives have activation time - this is going to become more and more of a problem.

The Solution:

I have two suggestions to fix this:

1) Micro stun effects (stuns of less than 1 second in duration), will not interrupt the activation of overdrives, once the process has begun.
2) All stun effects will not interrupt the activation of overdrives, once the process has begun.

TLDR version: Either option 1) or 2) would fix the problem. Micro stuns and longer stun effects would still be powerful, but they would not ruin cause overdrives to be totally wasted. Much fairer especially for melee turrets or Mammoth & Hunter.

More micro stuns will be added to the game, and this problem will get WORSE - so let's fix it now.

More explanation:

Spoiler

My preference would be option 2), but if that is not acceptable, then at least option 1).

Option 1) would have little effect on the power of micro stun augments, but would stop this highly annoying, and frankly broken interaction with overdrives which the micro Stun augments have. Now things would be a lot fairer for melee turrets or users of Mammoth/Hunter, who have to get into melee range with their overdrives and can not use cover. Even if you have to equip another immunity augment other than stun immunity, you will not have your overdrive completely wrecked.

With option 2), all stuns will become a bit less powerful, but it will be reasonable. Really, I think it is a bit much that stuns are able to interrupt overdrives, now that they all have an activation time. There isn't much "skill" involved in activating your overdrive in a team game, and just happening to get hit by a random stun and have it totally cancelled and wasted, having waited a very long time to charge it. That is not exactly fun gameplay. This would however be a slight nerf to Hunter overdrive - but since it also benefited from the recent EMP buff, I'd say that's fine.

Overall I think either option 1) or 2) would be a big improvement to the game, now that we have micro stuns. As I say, this problem is going to get WORSE as more micro stun augments are added - which they surely will be. So let's fix it now.

Feel free to leave your thoughts.

Edited February 9, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[Spy 14,736]

Valid

[Dopamine 2,161]

I agree there needs to be something done about the interaction of stuns and overdrives.

I would like you to clarify what you mean by:  "Will not interrupt the activation of overdrives". 

Do you effectively mean stun immunity once the activation process has begun? 

What happens once the overdrive is activated? Because If you do not have stun immunity during your overdrive, it will not really help much to have the activation uninterrupted.

And in fact I would maybe even advocate for a stun immunity for all overdrives since their activation until the overdrives effect ends. That might hurt the power of hunters overdrive quite a lot though, so I am not sure yet if it is a good idea.

Edited February 9, 2022 by frederik123456

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, Spy said:

Valid

Thanks :)

55 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

I would like you to clarify what you mean by:  "Will not interrupt the activation of overdrives". 

Do you effectively mean stun immunity once the activation process has begun? 

Hey, I mean the 1.1 second delay between when the user activates their overdrive, and when the effect actually begins - the delay added in a recent patch. This activation can be interrupted by micro stun augments, totally wasting the overdrive, and I think that is very unfair and very bad for gameplay. Given that these new augments apply stuns so frequently, this is very likely to happen.

As I mentioned, it is especially unfair for melee turrets users or Mammoth/Hunter, because in these cases the tanker must activate their overdrive close to the enemy for optimal effect, which leaves them open to getting micro stunned - and having your most important ability totally wasted for nothing. You can't always be wearing stun immunity, and overdrives such as Viking can sit behind cover to activate, whereas Mammoth/Hunter for instance can not - so it affects different hulls very unfairly.

In my opinion this is very bad for gameplay, and it needs to go. Stuns, or at least micro stuns, should not interrupt overdrives. And when we see more of these augments, things will get even worse than they are now.

EDIT: I might have misunderstood, I didn't actually mean stun immunity during the 1.1 seconds, but only that the overdrive would still go off even if you get stunned - which would be better than it being totally wasted. But stun immunity would also probably be fine, it would make Crusader a bit more powerful - but I think that's OK.
 

55 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

What happens once the overdrive is activated? Because If you do not have stun immunity during your overdrive, it will not really help much to have the activation uninterrupted.

A micro stun only lasts for a very short time, so as long as you get the overdrive off that will be a huge help. Mammoth/Paladin have stun immunity, Hunter and Crusader cause their effects instantly etc. - so for many overdrives it would be a lot better than what we have right now. If you get stunned during activation it is totally wasted, which feels wrong.
 

55 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

And in fact I would maybe even advocate for a stun immunity for all overdrives since their activation until the overdrives effect ends. That might hurt the power of hunters overdrive quite a lot though, so I am not sure yet if it is a good idea.

Interesting idea, I do feel though that yes, it would nerf Hunter a bit too much - and also make Viking overdrive a bit too powerful perhaps. We have always been able to stun during overdrives, but being able to stop the overdrive going off completely is something new (except for Hunter/Crusader), but now with augments that stun so frequently (micro stuns), the problem is worse than ever. So I think at the very least - we need stun immunity or micro stun immunity at minimum, during that 1.1 second activation window.

EDIT: Possibly misunderstood question about clarification - see second paragraph for edit.

Edited February 9, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[Dopamine 2,161]

3 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

 

Fair points.

My solution would probably be a bit to harsh.

I like your idea as it adresses the problem without nerfing the stun status effect too much. I believe most stun augments would still be plenty strong even if this gets implemented.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

9 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

Fair points.

My solution would probably be a bit to harsh.

I like your idea as it adresses the problem without nerfing the stun status effect too much. I believe most stun augments would still be plenty strong even if this gets implemented.

Thanks :) Well, this is a new problem for most overdrives ever since the 1.1 second delay, and the new augments were added. I just think this aspect of stun augments is unnecessary. They are effectively much better at stopping overdrives in many cases than jammer is - which is supposed to be the status effect which stops overdrives.

With jammer, you can not activate your overdrive for a brief time - but once the effect disappears you can. With micro stun (which is now applied almost constantly, for Tectonic Plasma Twins for example), if you attempt to activate your overdrive it will be totally wasted, rather than delayed. Given that you need to activate overdrives in the enemy's face sometimes, this is highly unfair. I don't think this is good for gameplay, and a (hopefully) unintentional problem caused by these 2 changes - so a fix is needed, I feel. It wouldn't do much to nerf the stun augments, but it would prevent this highly annoying and unfair interaction.

Edited February 9, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[Incorp 2,084]

Yes! Yes!!

[numericable 2,375]

Good idea, yesterday i was playing ares vulcan against an striker ares and he was completely stunning me with no way to fight him back. I tried to launch him my overdrive plasma ball but he stunned me and made me waste my OD, the solution should be that even if you are stunned but before you have pressed the OD button, the OD would be effective even if you are stunned.

[Abellia 504]

On 2/9/2022 at 3:02 AM, DestrotankAI9 said:

(For this suggestion, I have decided to provide a TLDR summary version for those who don't want / have time to read long posts, and more detail in brackets for those who are willing to read it).

The Problem:

It occurs to me that following some recent changes to the game, quite a large new problem has arisen. The changes in question:

1. All overdrives now have a 1.1 second activation time.
2. Micro stun augments have now been added to the game (currently for the augments Stunning Missiles for Striker and Tectonic Plasma for Twins).

TLDR version: Now all overdrives have activation times, but we have new augments that apply stuns almost constantly, which therefore make these very important abilities impossible to activate, or very easily cancel and waste them. Overdrives are too important for this to happen - and also this is very unfair for overdrives which must be activated up close, such as Mammoth/Hunter or for melee turrets.

More explanation:

  Reveal hidden contents

The issue is that since these new micro stun augments stun a target on a very frequent basis, casting an overdrive when not wearing stun immunity/ when not behind cover is nearly impossible with the new activation time (and very likely to be interrupted and therefore completely wasted) - and wearing stun immunity or being behind cover is not always possible or ideal, especially for melee turrets or Mammoth/Hunter. Given that overdrives are such a critical part of the game today, in my opinion such an important ability which takes so long to charge up should not be made unactivatable or be interrupted (and thus totally wasted) by a continuously applied ability such as micro stun. In the case of Tectonic Plasma for Twins, this can even happen accidently - with no thought on the user's part. This is especially unfair for melee turrets, or for Mammoth & Hunter, who MUST be up close to activate their overdrive, or if they activate when far away they will waste a significant portion of the effect.

Before these two changes were in the game, only Crusader and Hunter had overdrives with activation times. In addition to that, even for those two hulls, "traditional" stun augments, with longer stun duration, such as for Railgun / Smoky delivered stuns more infrequently, and so you could time your overdrive so that it would not be interrupted (unless you were up against more than one Stun augment).

For instance, Stun Rounds for Railgun fires every 3.92 seconds, with a 2 second stun - so after the stun is over, you have a window where you can get your overdrive off. Paralyzing Rounds for Smoky has a greatly reduced crit rate with a 2 second stun, so outside of supercharge, once you have just received a critical (provided you have enough health), you were safe to cast your overdrive.

But now with these new augments, this is not the case. The new Stunning Missiles / Tectonic Plasma casts stuns almost CONSTANTLY, and especially in the case of Tectonic Plasma it is basically impossible to get your overdrive off if you are not behind cover or wearing stun immunity. You often need to wear other immunities, and in many cases it is not viable to be in cover every time when activating your overdrive. As more of these micro stun augments will surely be added to the game, and now that ALL overdrives have activation time - this is going to become more and more of a problem.

The Solution:

I have two suggestions to fix this:

1) Micro stun effects (stuns of less than 1 second in duration), will not interrupt the activation of overdrives, once the process has begun.
2) All stun effects will not interrupt the activation of overdrives, once the process has begun.

TLDR version: Either option 1) or 2) would fix the problem. Micro stuns and longer stun effects would still be powerful, but they would not ruin cause overdrives to be totally wasted. Much fairer especially for melee turrets or Mammoth & Hunter.

More micro stuns will be added to the game, and this problem will get WORSE - so let's fix it now.

More explanation:

  Reveal hidden contents

My preference would be option 2), but if that is not acceptable, then at least option 1).

Option 1) would have little effect on the power of micro stun augments, but would stop this highly annoying, and frankly broken interaction with overdrives which the micro Stun augments have. Now things would be a lot fairer for melee turrets or users of Mammoth/Hunter, who have to get into melee range with their overdrives and can not use cover. Even if you have to equip another immunity augment other than stun immunity, you will not have your overdrive completely wrecked.

With option 2), all stuns will become a bit less powerful, but it will be reasonable. Really, I think it is a bit much that stuns are able to interrupt overdrives, now that they all have an activation time. There isn't much "skill" involved in activating your overdrive in a team game, and just happening to get hit by a random stun and have it totally cancelled and wasted, having waited a very long time to charge it. That is not exactly fun gameplay. This would however be a slight nerf to Hunter overdrive - but since it also benefited from the recent EMP buff, I'd say that's fine.

Overall I think either option 1) or 2) would be a big improvement to the game, now that we have micro stuns. As I say, this problem is going to get WORSE as more micro stun augments are added - which they surely will be. So let's fix it now.

Feel free to leave your thoughts.

You might as well suggest that EMP resets repair kits so there's counterplay for it...

oh wait lul

[JustBlackWolf 878]

Option 3

You can leave the "feature" of stun augments interrupting overdrive activation, however this requires a change to how the overdrives energy gets consumed.

Current: right after pressing the overdrive button, your energy gets consumed, bringing it to 0% by the time the OD is active.

Proposed:

Energy during activation = 100%

(Alternatively, activation could only consume 5% of energy 100%->95%, so, if you get stunned, you can't use your OD right after the effect wears off, but this is me just being too kind against an augment which doesn't deserve it)

Energy after the overdrive got successfully activated = starts getting used 100%-->50%-->0%

This way your overdrive won't be wasted if you get stunned during its activation.

Edited February 12, 2022 by JustBlackWolf

[2shots2kills 2,367]

"Players are not using Stun Immunity enough/We don't sell enough Stun Immunity Augments in the Battle Passes."

"What do we do to fix this?"

 

"Simple, make Stun interrupt Overdrives, you will see how things will change."

Result: +$$

 

Why do you think Jammer was changed to disable Drones? Because nobody gave a damn about Jammer before and nobody used Jammer Immunity. Now, they do (+$$)

(Same thing applies to the Freezing Effect disabling Double Damage, by the way)

 

All those ideas are fine from the Player's point of view, but you don't see the bigger picture, the Devs made those changes for a very particular reason, nothing is done "just because"

Edited February 12, 2022 by 2shots2kills