Miner augment balancing ideas

[Devastate 108]

Greetings

Something needs to be done about the eternal mines hull augment. 

Some background: in the old days miner was a drone. the only other way to get mines besides dropping them was to use the magnum mortar augment. If you were killed twice in 30 seconds all your mines would evaporate.

 

Fast forward to today. if you have saboteur and EM hull aug in a couple of minutes you can reduce an entire map to a nonsense fest. 50 mines is a lot and if you're not getting killed that number can reach triple digits quickly. This isn't just rage and cope speaking, i recently got hunter mines through Team contracts on my marshal account and playing it has made a huge difference. I feel bad laying a hundred mines all over the battlefield. Its so powerful that in battles where im the only 8600 GS marshal i can get a couple dozens kills against 9999 GS legends, whereas without it I would be struggling to get 4 kills in an entire battle.

 

So here some ideas i've spitballed on how to balance it:

-increase the cooldown on mines from whatever it is to 45 seconds

-if saboteur drone is equipped at the same time, reduce it to a maximum of 4+1 mines instead of 6+1.

-put a hard timer on mines or evaporate all mines (or all mines of all players period) at the 6 minute mark

-Allow hunter overdrive to remove enemy mines in some radius

-allow wasp b0mb to remove enemy mines of some radius

-allow titans dome to evaporate enemy mines of some radius

-change saboteur to if enemy tanks run over extra mines before they are activated, those mines are removed without damaging the enemy

-restore the killed-twice-within-Xtime-frame-removes-mines like the OG drone. (increase it from 30s to 45-60, else its easy to just press pause or wait in garage for 30 seconds and then respawn)

 

Im aware theres a mine protection module, however its barely used and activating constitutes a 25% reduction in battle effectiveness for any players who use it. Also, 1 player with eternal mines isn't so bad but that augment is only going to grow in availability and I'm already getting into battles with 2 and 3 miners on the same team. 

 

Im curious to hear yalls thoughts, both as victims of miners and as those cherishing their newly acquired doomaugment.

[Maf 32,300]

The most obvious solution is that none of the bonus mines from Saboteur should remain when the owner gets killed. Only the single central mine.

What's happening with Saboteur+Miner combo right now is an absolute farce, and I refuse to believe that its ridiculous power was not intentional. So I think it's pointless to make any suggestions for it, because I'm pretty sure that devs either decided that this is the Tanki they want to have, or they already have a nerf planned for it from the start. 

 

[mrvomit 106]

You could also make it that if you are killed by ANY kind of overdrive ,your mines  disappear ; also interesting .
Or that mines spawned after a while /( say  the 3th time  ) do "cancel " previous mines ( so only 2 or 3 "swarm "of mines is possible , as previous get erased ) 
Many things are possible 

Edited March 13, 2024 by mrvomit

[FLIPSTIKS 136]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:20 AM, bozo88 said:

Something needs to be done about the eternal mines hull augment.

It's a superb augment and should stay as it is.

 

On 3/13/2024 at 8:20 AM, bozo88 said:

I feel bad laying a hundred mines all over the battlefield.

And yet you still did it.

I would be devastated if I didn't lay at least 200 per battle.

You lay them just right you obliterate the floating hacks, so rewarding.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

On 3/12/2024 at 10:50 PM, bozo88 said:

I'm aware there's a mine protection module, however its barely used and activating constitutes a 25% reduction in battle effectiveness for any players who use it.  

As a tanker who mainly uses Spider module (unpopular opinion, it needs more than 50% damage reduction), I absolutely can't stand with those nasty mines. Even that with maxed Boosted Armor + Spider, they still deal a good chunk of damage (let alone Saboteur + Miner combination).

Edited March 13, 2024 by FrozenRailgun

[dont_you 54]

I would like that Miner protects only 70% of mines on owner death.

That way, if you manage to kill the miner a couple of times, the minefield weakens noticeably.

[Devastate 108]

On 3/13/2024 at 10:28 AM, FLIPSTIKS said:

It's a superb augment and should stay as it is.

 

Are you opposed to area-effect overdrives having anti-mine properties added?

[FLIPSTIKS 136]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:28 PM, dont_you said:

I would like that Miner protects only 70% of mines on owner death.

That way, if you manage to kill the miner a couple of times, the minefield weakens noticeably.

Don't worry once the devs have squeezed enough cash from it they will 100 % nerf it to the ground, just like everything else.

As for your overdrive suggestion BOZZO88 , not bothered either way. The game is toxic and in no way shape or form is it anywhere near enjoyable or player friendly. 

I have all but gave up on several accounts, including a maxed out one because amongst other things, "AUGMENTS" have crippled the game. These augments have also made protections null and void. 

This miner augment is indeed OP but like I said, it won't last very long. The devs track record for their nerf/buff cycle and ripping players off because of this cycle, is impeccable. 

I'm waiting for them to introduce upgrades for their hated augments, because it will happen, guaranteed.

Edited March 15, 2024 by FLIPSTIKS

[Helios 718]

I agree with this post

[Potdindy 866]

On 3/13/2024 at 12:28 PM, dont_you said:

I would like that Miner protects only 70% of mines on owner death.

That way, if you manage to kill the miner a couple of times, the minefield weakens noticeably.

This seems like a nice idea, or like what Maf said, only including mines placed directly. Mines having a role in the game is a good thing, but too many can immediately be oppressive.

[Bracco 23]

Another problem with mines is visibility. Why enemy mines are transparent until you are very close? They should be always clearly visible. What the logic of invisible mines?

[Blutaar 1,904]

On 3/20/2024 at 11:07 PM, Bracco said:

Another problem with mines is visibility. Why enemy mines are transparent until you are very close? They should be always clearly visible. What the logic of invisible mines?

Because they are meant to be surprise attacks. If visible, players will know where they are able to drive and will simply avoid the places that are mined - which negates the entire purpose of mines. In case of people abusing the Miner augment with Saboteur drone then you will be screwed anyways, regardless of visibility. 

Mines have always been invisible, ever since their release back in 2010. Why is it now a problem all of a sudden? 

[Maf 32,300]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:11 PM, Blutaar said:

Why is it now a problem all of a sudden? 

Because there's so many of them now. It was never like that before.

By the way, besides simply nerfing the rate at which mines are being spammed onto the battlefield, there's a couple other ideas I like, which would help with the annoyance of mines:

1. Hornet OD should make all enemy mines completely visible for all teammates.
2. Any enemy mines revealed manually by a player should stay revealed for the whole team until they are removed or the game ends.

[wild001 1,422]

Use mamomth OD with trickster,

Your can crash through mine field easy. 

Or just keep rush behind teammates to suicide way to clear a path.

I see both way quite effective currently

[MrRodent 85]

Miner Aug with Saboteur is the only thing left of the game that works after the recent "update".

-

Can't see the jug, ball, flag etc now.

Blinding the players is not an "update"

-

So basically now, after this "update"... nobody will play jug, because you can't target the jug... or heal/protect your own jug because you can't find it.

Nobody will play CTF or Rugby, because you're basically driving around at random looking for a needle in a haystack.

-

Nobody wants to play CP or Siege anymore already because 99% of their team parks in a far corner planting mines instead of trying to cap points.

-

Which leaves... Assault.

Assault usually finishes either 160-0 to the defenders, because the attacking players camp in the corners planting mines.

Or 160-20 to the attackers, because the defence team, upon spawning, immediately vanish into the furthest corners away from the base, and plant mines.

 

And the last mode, TDM.

Usually finishes 150-25 to one of the teams because the game puts an entire team who have a combined GS of 12... against 9999GS level 300 Legends.

 

This update has killed Jug, CTF, Rugby... basically what was left of the game.

 

Nuking the Miner Aug will take away the one last thing in this game that people actually use.

[Blutaar 1,904]

On 3/21/2024 at 12:38 PM, Maf said:

Because there's so many of them now. It was never like that before.

By the way, besides simply nerfing the rate at which mines are being spammed onto the battlefield, there's a couple other ideas I like, which would help with the annoyance of mines:

1. Hornet OD should make all enemy mines completely visible for all teammates.
2. Any enemy mines revealed manually by a player should stay revealed for the whole team until they are removed or the game ends.

I know that very well. But see, that is not what this entire issue is really about. It is the quantity of mines that is the major cause of this havoc. Mines being invisible for players is all part of the supply's mechanic and effectiveness in battle; before the Miner augment, they were used for tactical and smart gameplay. Try to make and answer this comparison, which option you would prefer: less mines that are partly invisible, or a complete minefield which you can detect from miles? 

I have suggested mine detection for Scout Radar some time ago, as it suits Hornet's supporting role. But again, making mines visible for al players won't solve the problem, because areas with an abundance of mines will still be inaccessibe for enemies. 

[Maf 32,300]

On 3/22/2024 at 2:18 PM, Blutaar said:

Try to make and answer this comparison, which option you would prefer: less mines that are partly invisible, or a complete minefield which you can detect from miles? 

The former, of course. But I don't see why we can't have both.

I mean, I've often been in situations where I'm coming up to a ramp, see a minefield, stop, but my teammates behind me don't know about it and there's nothing I can do to inform them (let's face it - writing in battle chat is not a practical option). It would be such a nice feature if by coming close to an enemy mine, you'd permanently mark it as visible for yourself and your teammates. There's absolutely no reason why you should "forget" where a mine is after already detecting it.

[Akame 4,577]

On 3/22/2024 at 5:14 AM, wild001 said:

Use mamomth OD with trickster,

Your can crash through mine field easy. 

Or just keep rush behind teammates to suicide way to clear a path.

I see both way quite effective currently

Another counter is an ally Titan OD or your own and u slowly eat chunks away as a team even

[Bracco 23]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:11 AM, Blutaar said:

Because they are meant to be surprise attacks. If visible, players will know where they are able to drive and will simply avoid the places that are mined - which negates the entire purpose of mines. In case of people abusing the Miner augment with Saboteur drone then you will be screwed anyways, regardless of visibility. 

Mines have always been invisible, ever since their release back in 2010. Why is it now a problem all of a sudden? 

The invisibility of mines has always bothered me since the first day, it's not a new problem indeed. Initially I supposed it wa a bug because it's non sense to make them invisible. Now there are always too many of them, so making them invisible too is a real problem for people that want to play actively. Of course mines are not an issue for all the campers that just sit in the same place for all the match, and we see there are many of them. Camping is a problem and many "inventions" made it worse (Magnum included). I really preferred the old tanki.

[Blutaar 1,904]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:53 PM, Bracco said:

I really preferred the old tanki.

Old tanki had mines that were invisible too. Again, the real problem here is the Saboteur + Miner augment combo. That should be fixed first. Enlarged radius of mine visibility could be an additional change, I would be fine with that. Same for Scout Radar highlighting mines - if it won't crash my FPS that is. 

[PirateSpider 1,489]

Just needs more counters is all. I think something like this should suffice:

 

• allow wasp, hopper, and hunter to destroy every mine in their radius.

• allow crusader and Ares to destroy mines in their splash radius.

• extend mammoths mine destroying capabilities to its maximum radius.

• allow hornet to see every enemy mine on the battle field as well as being able to destroy them using their turret.

[Potdindy 866]

On 3/23/2024 at 12:41 PM, PirateSpider said:

Just needs more counters is all. I think something like this should suffice:

 

• allow wasp, hopper, and hunter to destroy every mine in their radius.

• allow crusader and Ares to destroy mines in their splash radius.

• extend mammoths mine destroying capabilities to its maximum radius.

• allow hornet to see every enemy mine on the battle field as well as being able to destroy them using their turret.

100% giving some of the weaker ODs the unique ability to deal with mines would be awesome! Maybe youd see a mammoth assault through a minefield more often, for example

[AzaborBR 128]

You don't even need to nerf it... Just balance the existing overdrives as they said.

On 3/23/2024 at 12:41 PM, PirateSpider said:

Just needs more counters is all. I think something like this should suffice:

 

• allow wasp, hopper, and hunter to destroy every mine in their radius.

• allow crusader and Ares to destroy mines in their splash radius.

• extend mammoths mine destroying capabilities to its maximum radius.

• allow hornet to see every enemy mine on the battle field as well as being able to destroy them using their turret.

And I would add:

• For Dictator overdrive: Add a mine damage reduction by 30-50%

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 3/23/2024 at 5:23 PM, AzaborBR said:

You don't even need to nerf it... Just balance the existing overdrives as they said.

And I would add:

• For Dictator overdrive: Add a mine damage reduction by 30-50%

I originally was gonna just say to give dictator the ability to destroy mines in its radius too. But I think this would suit its role as a support better.

[Potdindy 866]

On 3/23/2024 at 9:15 PM, PirateSpider said:

I originally was gonna just say to give dictator the ability to destroy mines in its radius too. But I think this would suit its role as a support better.

Great ideas giving help to Dictator. Its the weakest OD so that would be awesome!