under review Special Indicators In The Battle Statistics Menu

[Sharva 89]

Today when I was in a battle, I wanted to know if the opponent juggernaut had protection against the turret which I was going to equip, so as to decide whether to attempt destroying him using that turret or to just use my current turret for destroying him, with Viking overdrive. But there was one problem - I didn't know who the opponent Juggernaut was in the first place, which is why I wasn't able to check his protections. It was at that moment that an idea struck me, an idea to have special indicators in the battle statistics menu. Special indicators in the sense of being able to know the following things depending on what battle mode a player is playing:-

1. Capture The Flag (CTF): A flag icon will be displayed next to the nickname of any player who has the flag of the opposing team in his/her possession.

2. Assault (ASL): A flag icon will be displayed next to the nicknames of the players of the attacking side who have the flags in their possession.

3. Rugby (RGB): An icon indicating the rugby ball will be displayed next to the nickname of the player who has the rugby ball in his/her possession.

4. Control Points (CP): The players who are holding a point will have an icon indicating that point (A, B, C, etc.) displayed next to his/her nickname, which will indicate that the point is getting captured.

5. Siege (SGE):  The players who are holding the point will have an icon indicating that the point is getting captured, next to their nicknames.

6. Team Juggernaut (TJR): An icon indicating the juggernaut will be displayed next to nickname of the player who is the juggernaut of his/her team.

7. Solo Juggernaut (SJR): An icon indicating the juggernaut will be displayed next to the nickname of the player being the juggernaut.

All of these icons will be visible in the battle statistics menu (the one which can be viewed by pressing the Tab button when in a battle). Also, all the players present in the battle will be able to see these icons, irrespective of the team they are in.

I think these icons will be a close-to-minor yet effective and nice change in the game, as they can be helpful in certain situations. Also, they would bring depth to the battle statistics menu, justifying its name even more than the current state, as these icons would do nothing but add more statistics for players to view in the battle statistics menu. Hence, I am looking forward to these icons getting added to the game via an update.

[Maf 32,300]

Under review

As someone who likes having additional useful information, I totally agree with the idea. However, from a game design perspective, it has potential issues.

Adding dynamic icons to the Tab list interface is not very straightforward, so it would be difficult to implement. At the same time, the benefit from it is questionable - in other modes, besides TJR, CTF and RGB, the information on which player is engaging with the objective is not that important. You can already see where the location of the objective and its status, so knowing which specific player it is is rarely relevant. Even in Juggernaut, the only reason to know who the Juggernaut is so that you can check protections and change to a turret he's not protected from, which is only relevant once per battle and goes against devs' goal to remove mid-game garage changing altogether.

Plus, having to hold Tab to check things is bad practive in terms of UI design. The player should be able to see all necessary information right in front of them.

[krokorok 838]

Tbh, I dont think Juggernaut needs to be displayed next to the name, unless they somehow buff it. That tank is already super disadvantaged as it is to the point when Vikings and all the bs Striker augments are more of a Juggernaut themselves than the one having the Juggernaut. The player does not need another target on its back.

[Sharva 89]

On 11/6/2024 at 1:14 PM, Maf said:

As someone who likes having additional useful information, I totally agree with the idea. However, from a game design perspective, it has potential issues.

Good to know that you too agree with this idea.

On 11/6/2024 at 1:14 PM, Maf said:

Adding dynamic icons to the Tab list interface is not very straightforward, so it would be difficult to implement. At the same time, the benefit from it is questionable - in other modes, besides TJR, CTF and RGB, the information on which player is engaging with the objective is not that important. You can already see where the location of the objective and its status, so knowing which specific player it is is rarely relevant.

Totally agreed I just gave the idea of having the icons in the battle statistics menu in all the game modes in which it is doable, because I thought it would be kind of unfair if it is only implemented in some specific game modes like TJR, CTF and RGB. But you're right, the icons aren't that useful in other game modes, so not having them wouldn't really make a difference.

On 11/6/2024 at 1:14 PM, Maf said:

Even in Juggernaut, the only reason to know who the Juggernaut is so that you can check protections and change to a turret he's not protected from, which is only relevant once per battle and goes against devs' goal to remove mid-game garage changing altogether.

Yes, it's relevant just once per battle, but given the fact that there are multiple players in each team of a battle, it could be relevant more than once, as multiple players can decide whether or not to change their equipment one after the other, based on which protections the Juggernauts of the opposing team have. To make it simple, suppose a player changes his equipment and destroys the Juggernaut, and a new Juggernaut is alloted to the opposing team, who could have different protections from the previous Juggernaut, then another player would change his equipment (if required) in order to destroy that Juggernaut. And this process would then repeat itself till the end of the battle, i.e. different players will change their equipment in order to destroy diffferent Juggernauts, as a new Juggernaut is chosen in the battle each time the previous Juggernaut of that team gets destroyed. This is just a hypothetical situation, so it's not at all necessary that these exact things will happen in every battle. My motive is just to clarify my idea, which I have tried to do by giving the example of this hypothetical situation. I may be wrong at any point though. If so, please correct me. After all you have much more experience than I do.

On 11/6/2024 at 1:14 PM, Maf said:

Plus, having to hold Tab to check things is bad practive in terms of UI design. The player should be able to see all necessary information right in front of them.

Yes, it would certainly have been better. I wish it was possible.

Edited November 6, 2024 by Sharva

[Sharva 89]

On 11/6/2024 at 3:12 PM, krokorok said:

Tbh, I dont think Juggernaut needs to be displayed next to the name, unless they somehow buff it. That tank is already super disadvantaged as it is to the point when Vikings and all the bs Striker augments are more of a Juggernaut themselves than the one having the Juggernaut. The player does not need another target on its back.

You're right when you say that the Juggernaut is so weak. Even I have the same opinion. But I think that having the icon indicating the Juggernaut would still be useful, as destroying Juggernauts still helps you and your team win the battle.

[krokorok 838]

There is a massive flaw in this idea and that is - it does not have any practical use in a battle, or the practical use of it is extremely limited to justify it being added. Even if this icon is displayed next to the name in lets say Juggernaut, and even if you change your equipment to counter and destroy the initial Juggernaut, the next player obtaining the Juggernaut is a different player who might have a different combination of protections in which case you are still helpless as you basically cannot switch your equipment again to counter the new change.

The same goes for the other modes. There is just no point in having this icon. How exactly will it help you to know what is the players name and what protections/immunities /augments he has equipped? The answer is that this simply does not matter. Whether he has a 50% protection or no protection, it does not really change your objective of intercepting this player. For example, what is the practical use of you knowing whether the one taking away your flag in CTF has 50% protection or 0% protection? Will you stop shooting at him because he has a module? Nope. Will it help you change your equipment? Okay you did that, how did it help, when now there is someone else pulling the flag? There just isnt a benefit in adding this icon, it only distracts you and forces you to spend more time analyzing the TAB table instead of focusing on actual gameplay.

Edited November 6, 2024 by krokorok

[Sharva 89]

On 11/7/2024 at 1:12 AM, krokorok said:

Even if this icon is displayed next to the name in lets say Juggernaut, and even if you change your equipment to counter and destroy the initial Juggernaut, the next player obtaining the Juggernaut is a different player who might have a different combination of protections in which case you are still helpless as you basically cannot switch your equipment again to counter the new change.

Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that I can't change my equipment more than once in a battle, and even if I destroy a Juggernaut by changing my equipment, the next Juggernaut could have a different set of protections, which would contradict my prior equipment change. But you didn't consider that there are other players in my team who can change their equipment in order to destroy the upcoming Juggernauts of the opposing team.

On 11/7/2024 at 1:12 AM, krokorok said:

How exactly will it help you to know what is the players name and what protections/immunities /augments he has equipped? The answer is that this simply does not matter. Whether he has a 50% protection or no protection, it does not really change your objective of intercepting this player. For example, what is the practical use of you knowing whether the one taking away your flag in CTF has 50% protection or 0% protection? Will you stop shooting at him because he has a module? Nope. Will it help you change your equipment? Okay you did that, how did it help, when now there is someone else pulling the flag?

The protection part which I have mentioned in my post is only applicable in TJR mode, and not CTF or any other battle modes. And if you're questioning the practical use of these icons, you must know that it is not necessary that everyone will be able to put them to use throughout the entire battle, but having additional information in our hands never puts us at a disadvantage. In fact, it can be advantageous at certain times, in ways we had never imagined. Also, Tab menu is called the BATTLE STATISTICS menu for a reason. Even if we assume that the indicator icons are useless (even though it's not the reality) having these indicators in the menu will do nothing but justify the name of the menu even more than the current state, as I've mentioned in my post.

On 11/7/2024 at 1:12 AM, krokorok said:

There just isnt a benefit in adding this icon, it only distracts you and forces you to spend more time analyzing the TAB table instead of focusing on actual gameplay.

Well, you're talking as if it takes us literal minutes to just press Tab and check all the things which we want to in the Tab menu. In reality, it hardly takes 2-3 seconds to check all the necessary things most of the time.

[krokorok 838]

On 11/6/2024 at 11:55 PM, Sharva said:

Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that I can't change my equipment more than once in a battle, and even if I destroy a Juggernaut by changing my equipment, the next Juggernaut could have a different set of protections, which would contradict my prior equipment change. But you didn't consider that there are other players in my team who can change their equipment in order to destroy the upcoming Juggernauts of the opposing team.

This is still a very flawed way of thinking, beucase it stands on the assumption of players being so organized that they all wait with their equipment change at the exact moment when they can counter the new change of Juggernaut, and that the others will also wait for the next Juggernaut change. If you play MM, this simply isnt a realistic view of how the battle flow is. There is another massive flaw in this thinking, and that is that you are not in the battle to counter and destroy just ONE Juggernaut, you should teoretically speaking be attacking each and every Juggernaut spawning as that is the main objective of the mode. You changing your equipment to counter that one single Juggernaut is just wrong way of playing, and if you play MM you will see it does not work this way, people simply attack the Juggernaut because that is the main objective of that mode, and should change the equipment not to counter just one type of Juggernaut player, but to have a fighting chance against each and every Juggernaut that will spawn in the game regardless of what protection modules it has equipped.

On 11/6/2024 at 11:55 PM, Sharva said:

The protection part which I have mentioned in my post is only applicable in TJR mode, and not CTF or any other battle modes. And if you're questioning the practical use of these icons, you must know that it is not necessary that everyone will be able to put them to use throughout the entire battle, but having additional information in our hands never puts us at a disadvantage. In fact, it can be advantageous at certain times, in ways we had never imagined. Also, Tab menu is called the BATTLE STATISTICS menu for a reason. Even if we assume that the indicator icons are useless (even though it's not the reality) having these indicators in the menu will do nothing but justify the name of the menu even more than the current state, as I've mentioned in my post.

You are speaking of advantages, but you havent mentioned a SINGLE advantage this provides. At this point you are simply trying to add features for the sake of adding features without actually having any practical use.

On 11/6/2024 at 11:55 PM, Sharva said:

Well, you're talking as if it takes us literal minutes to just press Tab and check all the things which we want to in the Tab menu. In reality, it hardly takes 2-3 seconds to check all the necessary things most of the time.

Okay model situation, you are in Berlin CP, 7 CP points to capture, 40 players at minimum, 10 of them from each side are capturing the point, half of them dies and are changed by the enemy team. What type of useful information or advantage did you gain from those 2-3 seconds you spend looking at the tab. Yes you added more statistics to the table , but what exactly did these statistics helped you with?

Edited November 7, 2024 by krokorok