Serpuhov WTH

FogOfWar_XXX · February 13, 2015

So, last night, I fire up Tanki, can't play for long, find a Serpuhov game, 15 minute, figure squeeze in one, maybe two games. Fire up the Shaft, red team, truck behind the building heading for the ledge and what on earth do I se but a barrier!? Um, never heard about this update coming and I can find NOTHING today to indicate that this was implemented, not a peep. Okay, um, I still get the ledge, but no camping picking off flag runners opposite the map, whatever, for now, doesn't make sense, but okay. Yep there is time to play a second one, blue team, let's go. Up the ramp on the left, and hit reverse, time to camp in my favorite "eyes on" base and spawn points camp ground, but alas I can't seem to move backwards. A quick spin of the turret (okay, relatively quick, it IS A SHAFT) and what do my eyes behold? Yep, another barrier, it's like they put it in just to stop ME from playing, those are the two best camping locations in Serpuhov (Okay, Red Team it's a toss up, I actually LOVE the ledge, if you have decent team, you alone can pin one third of the map down for the purposes of covering team mates running flags). Red team could shut down flag runners running along the opposirte side of the map, and the Blue team, that position was perfect for supporting your team as the made breaks for the flag, keeping defenders down and then allowing you to drive forward and meet carriers and then escort them back down. Blue team, truth be told, has NO GREAT spots on the map for camping, so that one was it, period.

Why and when was this done. Hello developers, this goes out to you. Again, Shafts are trying really hard to make up for the laser, we compensate, we work hard for our tricks, and then they're taken away wholesale. With the exception of a few souls wanting to sneak into bases, the only people that used those locations were shafts and the occasional rail that wanted to snipe. Why are long range shooters CONSISTENTLY penalized in this game. We earn little money often, points towards rank are slower too, it's not like were tactics and roles launch us up the rank and equipment ladder quickly, so why do these things to further frustrate players?

I wrote about these two exact locations in response to the Newspaper article posted about sniping in Serpuhov and it's like you guys took that apart and simply ran with it. Look, a sniper says this, we need to shut it down. More and more, Brest is the only place (and Dusseldorf) that is great for sniping, but those are meant to be nothing but long range slugfests. Shafts NEED to be able to support the battle, not just srive right up to it, kill one tank, and then get destroyed by defenders. If this keeps up, tanki is going to turn into some sort of Rugby or Football game, and no longer resemble a combat game.

ELIZABETH1122 · February 13, 2015

So, last night, I fire up Tanki, can't play for long, find a Serpuhov game, 15 minute, figure squeeze in one, maybe two games. Fire up the Shaft, red team, truck behind the building heading for the ledge and what on earth do I se but a barrier!? Um, never heard about this update coming and I can find NOTHING today to indicate that this was implemented, not a peep. Okay, um, I still get the ledge, but no camping picking off flag runners opposite the map, whatever, for now, doesn't make sense, but okay. Yep there is time to play a second one, blue team, let's go. Up the ramp on the left, and hit reverse, time to camp in my favorite "eyes on" base and spawn points camp ground, but alas I can't seem to move backwards. A quick spin of the turret (okay, relatively quick, it IS A SHAFT) and what do my eyes behold? Yep, another barrier, it's like they put it in just to stop ME from playing, those are the two best camping locations in Serpuhov (Okay, Red Team it's a toss up, I actually LOVE the ledge, if you have decent team, you alone can pin one third of the map down for the purposes of covering team mates running flags). Red team could shut down flag runners running along the opposirte side of the map, and the Blue team, that position was perfect for supporting your team as the made breaks for the flag, keeping defenders down and then allowing you to drive forward and meet carriers and then escort them back down. Blue team, truth be told, has NO GREAT spots on the map for camping, so that one was it, period.

Why and when was this done. Hello developers, this goes out to you. Again, Shafts are trying really hard to make up for the laser, we compensate, we work hard for our tricks, and then they're taken away wholesale. With the exception of a few souls wanting to sneak into bases, the only people that used those locations were shafts and the occasional rail that wanted to snipe. Why are long range shooters CONSISTENTLY penalized in this game. We earn little money often, points towards rank are slower too, it's not like were tactics and roles launch us up the rank and equipment ladder quickly, so why do these things to further frustrate players?

I wrote about these two exact locations in response to the Newspaper article posted about sniping in Serpuhov and it's like you guys took that apart and simply ran with it. Look, a sniper says this, we need to shut it down. More and more, Brest is the only place (and Dusseldorf) that is great for sniping, but those are meant to be nothing but long range slugfests. Shafts NEED to be able to support the battle, not just srive right up to it, kill one tank, and then get destroyed by defenders. If this keeps up, tanki is going to turn into some sort of Rugby or Football game, and no longer resemble a combat game.

I will tell you why it is an anti shaft device! They are trying to kill shaft because it is a threat to the new weapon, Vulcan. Obviously someone is influencing the developers. I don't use those places very much now but have in the past. The only reason why I do not use it much now is the amount effort needed with something like Viking to access and if one is shot down it is a waste that is all.

I am put out about this change to the map and would also like some answers. It is also a legitimate way for Tankers to avoid direct action. I would also like the truth about the LAZER on Shaft because I do not believe the rubbish that was given out. It is very detrimental to shaft.

Opex-Rah · February 13, 2015

Upper places on Serpuhov is a no-play zone. There is an easy access to kill zones as long as it is a no-play zone. But players keep getting there.

This is not an issue itself, but constant spam to tech support team from players who being destroyed by kill zones... is. So, I've blocked those paths entirely.

As for Shaft, I would improve damage or reloading time rather than leaving it as a pure camping weapon. If laser is not enough to stop Shaft from camping, I will find more ways to enforce it.

ELIZABETH1122 · February 13, 2015

Upper places on Serpuhov is a no-play zone. There is an easy access to kill zones as long as it is a no-play zone. But players keep getting there.

This is not an issue itself, but constant spam to tech support team from players who being destroyed by kill zones... is. So, I've blocked those paths entirely.

As for Shaft, I would improve damage or reloading time rather than leaving it as a pure camping weapon. If laser is not enough to stop Shaft from camping, I will find more ways to enforce it.

It has become fairly obvious that development was being influence by vociferous players. Players who have it all too easy with auto aim turrets.

What is wrong with camping. It is a legitimate tactic. Opponents already where killing shaft, they did not need a beacon to find it. It is practically impossible for shaft to be a dynamic operator. It takes too long to load, it is like horse with blinkers it has to stop to fire. It cannot move ounce the firing scope has been acquired and the shot discharged. It can not move with a shot in the barrel Arcade is useless. Would rather give arcade up completely for a better gun. their is video footage on U Tube that show a time when shaft was far more dynamic and it had its wings cut

Their are a lot of angry shaft users who have paid good money for their weapon. I started using other weapons only to facilitate the buying of better shaft equipment. I think that many other players viewed shaft as their main weapon. It has been absolutely ruined.

Opex-Rah · February 13, 2015

What is wrong with camping. It is a legitimate tactic.

It IS a legitimate tactic, but to certain extent. If there is a no-play zone on the map it is there for a reason! Ruining map planning is a huge disservice to overall balance. Shaft will never get update to its power if there will be maps allowing it to camp easily and making up for turret poor power by not intended gameplay features.

As long as Serpukhov one of the most played maps these days, camping shafts on this map making statistics look decent, while the gun really might use some boosting.

FogOfWar_XXX · February 13, 2015

I will tell you why it is an anti shaft device! They are trying to kill shaft because it is a threat to the new weapon, Vulcan. Obviously someone is influencing the developers. I don't use those places very much now but have in the past. The only reason why I do not use it much now is the amount effort needed with something like Viking to access and if one is shot down it is a waste that is all.

I am put out about this change to the map and would also like some answers. It is also a legitimate way for Tankers to avoid direct action. I would also like the truth about the LAZER on Shaft because I do not believe the rubbish that was given out. It is very detrimental to shaft.

Well Elizabeth, I just watched the latest VBLOG and they spent some time explaining balance. They have some valid concerns, because as they tweak the engine and the physics, platforms can gain major advantages, but with that said, I am completely with you on this. The Shaft is getting the shaft constantly. This is a combat based game, even if very arcadish and not overly realistic in terms of all the effects and mechanics of the game, but that said, it's turning into a football game, like my analogy, and not a fighting game. Faster units move in for objectives, heavier and more powerful units trail behind and support. This is combat, this is how armored and vehicle combat works, combined arms effectiveness. This is turning into a FPS on tracks, and not a vehicle combat game. Rails rule here now simply because they are very powerful and they have auto aim. Learn to time the firing and the game engine does the rest. I"M SICK of fools says that learning to play a shaft is easy, just requires patience. Patience is paramount in sniping, but we don't sit around waiting for things to cross our paths, especially now that lasers tell all where you are. I spend more time scoped OUT and observing from a distance and then engaging then I do scoped anymore. You need to take shots, otherwise we aren't doing anything for the team and we ACTUALLY HAVE AIM, not like the ricos, twins, and rails that can point in our general direction and poof, rounds come our way, it's infuriating. Now I'm not going to complain, I started playing and it was this way, what kills me is that the shaft WASN'T this way before and people expected to have it changed while their game play didn't change. This brings me to something VERY poignant about change.

The VLOG developer that mentioned it said something that is an issue I think the Tanki Development Team should reconsider and use EXTREMELY careful judgement on. It was stated "Tanki is always changing . . . ". Lets talk about that for a moment.

We play and learn to play based upon our experiences in the game. We form our expertise and talent by discerning the abilities of our equipment and the terrain we play upon. We learn how the opposing equipment functions, when it is strong, weak, etc, again, all by playing the game, in short, experience. Change is sometimes inevitable, I understand this, but it should be improvement without impacting the core of the game, what we all know and understand. If maintaining balance constantly means shifting the paradigms of the things we have come to know in game play, it null and voids our ability to make decisions in the game because the rules have changed. If you make a shaft and sell it as it is, then people DO DESERVE to have it as it is, otherwise you have taken their monies and then played bait and switch on them. Same goes for any other turret, change a dynamic enough that affects them and you have fundamentally changed them, and their capabilities. If Tanki wants to implement change, they really need to be FAR MORE thoughtful about the impacts upon the HISTORICAL aspects of the game. They are very good at maintaining the technical standards, and ensuring that the new is always functional and not broken, broke they spend far less time ensuring that what was historically a reality for players is not broken. People spent inordinate amounts of crystals buying powerful shafts, and they were summarily cut to ribbons basically with the laser penalty (yes, I will no longer refer to the laser as a upgrade or update, it was a pure and simple attack on shafts). Change should be about creating the environment that is better for game play, but the platforms that have been historically used, unless it is a change that cuts across all platforms in a uniform fashion to solve an issue that otherwise made the overall game less reliable or functional. I am the first one to stand up for rail players and say"while I think your auto aim is bs compared to my shaft's having to carefully select constantly where that round goes, the ability to flip others in the game has been there and you bought into that platform for it's capabilities. Now, if every tank on the field seemed to be flipped over all the time, I'd say then yes, there is a problem with game play, but given the difficulty of those shots sometimes, it was just a reality that as player I had to account for when engaging a shaft, knowing that they might flip me over if I get into a sniping brawl with them. Oh well, if I get flipped, I get flipped. I have not played at the M2 and above levels, so maybe it was there that it became untenable, but still, I never the forums awash with complaints of this, so I'm guessing it wasn't as bad as it might have been presented. They wanted a rail, the bought a rail, learned to play a rail, they should get their rail as is, period. Afterburn to me is highly over powered, that said, I know it's a flame tank and that's what it does, I need to plan for that in advance once I know that's what that team is using. Thus change is a insidious enemy of consistency in Tanki, and it needs to be addressed by developers in a manner that change easily applied without throwing the "balance" of platforms off. This then takes me to my next point, balance, shafts, and change.

Shafts were given a raw deal, we complained, we pointed out the sheer stupidity of putting visible laser on a sniping platform, and then we retreated back to the game in anger and ire and made the best of terrible situation. We figured out where and how to snipe under the new conditions, we figured out how to position ourselves to be less vulnerable to counter attacks once we took that first shot, we figured out how to close more wit hthe enemies and "semi-camp", as I like to call it, nearer the flag and "shoot and scoot", and we learned how to move around more to avoid the annoying rage players that can['t have their stupid wasp shot down as they run with the flag and are popped off by us 5 times in a row because we are doing more than driving in circles really fast. Notice, there is a word there that repeats itself OVER and OVER. That word is "we". Us, the shaft players, we have changed, and we have adapted to the new paradigms. We have taken a very bad situation and turned it on it's head as best we could. What do we get for our efforts to cease the complaining the settle for the stupid reality of our tanks now? Further impediment. This is EXTREMELY telling.

DEVELOPERS INTENTIONALLY cut off our power plays in Serpuhov, but this isn't a laser, or powerful cannon shot, or overpowered hulls vs speed and agility. This time, this time we are being attacked for using OUR BRAINS and being clever and effective and shunning the status quo and NOT conforming to XP battle mentality. WE ARE BEING forced to dumb down our game play so idiots in wasps and rails can do the ever so boring and ever so overdone, rush, snag and grab, and run away thing over and over. Wasps now rule the first place positions it seems on all maps with CTF and even CP. Why? Because going real fast and running away now is basically easy, with little chance of reprisal, except for other "go fasts" chasing them en-mass. Very much like a Rubgy or Football game. If a shaft can't get a wide field of vision from a distance to tack a bead on a target, it becomes fairly useless. Again, WE out thought the limitations, we took back some advantage, with the "balanced" circumstances, and we are AGAIN penalized for it. The fact of the matter is shaft players are THE smartest, hands down, of all the turret lover types, and our acumen is being attacked constantly. This is absolutely NO REASON for this and this IS developers INTENTIONALLY trying to sink shafts.

To your point of Vulcans, it is funny that another shaft player would bring it up, I have NOT vocalized it, BUT I noticed the same thing. Vulcans were supposed to be long range solutions to "I don't know what", and as long range engagement units they have been mediocre at best, and GREAT for my kill count. They are annoying, but certainly NOT worrisome. I'll let one open up on me and take half my bar while I charge snipe them. The explode quite nicely with the tall and narrow necked turret, comical almost to think they are real contenders in the game. THAT SAID, I do have a fearful prediction. For the sake of GAME BALANCE, maybe there will be "too many long range options" available now, I mean with rails and vulcans, and maybe shafts should be removed, maybe? Think about that again, what I just said. A long range weapon with auto aim and even gyro locking on a target. No aiming, no skill, just a button mashers delight. Is this the excuse to be used somewhere down the line to get rid of shafts, as they "fall out of favor" since they simply cannot be played effectively anymore?

I was thinking about starting thread that went into the deeper aspects of shaft, but now I fear to even mention anything would because for examination and attack on the part of players and devs alike. Shafts do need to start banding together and thinking about what can be done to keep the ever constant rolling attack against us at bay. Some might say I'm not "high rank" enough to know what I'm talking about, but this is a newer account, I've been playing for almost a year now, and I can tell you I know better than some who have been playing for years, my place in most matches will attest to that.

Anyways, we as shafts can discuss this all we want, but right, the thread at hand is a good place to start, get a real answer about a real and obvious change and start a dialogue there, with hopefully people that matter. It's just a game, but so is NHL, NFL, MLS, MLB, ML WHATEVER. We take our fun seriously.

FogOfWar_XXX · February 13, 2015

It IS a legitimate tactic, but to certain extent. If there is a no-play zone on the map it is there for a reason! Ruining map planning is a huge disservice to overall balance. Shaft will never get update to its power if there will be maps allowing it to camp easily and making up for turret poor power by not intended gameplay features.

As long as Serpukhov one of the most played maps these days, camping shafts on this map making statistics look decent, while the gun really might use some boosting.

Hazel-Rah,

Lets talk about the no play zone. How long has Serpuhov been around? How old is that map? As long as I have been playing it's been around I believe. It has been as it is until yesterday. My above above post in reference to Elizabeth clearly details the point about change, need for it, historical precedent, and CAREFULLY managing that. This map has been "learned", the where and what of what works on it, and what doesn't. Complete tactics and strategies have been formed over time.

A simple week in the test server would have CLEARLY shown the areas that were in the "NOW" contentious areas. To say that these were being accessed WRONGLY is to say that developers had every expectation that tanks that fit perfectly down the narrow path way WOULD NOT use it? You and I both know that is nothing but an excuse. Developers left it there and open to see the novelty of it and to "see what happens". Now that twins and ricos can't dominate on that map and they have realized it, now they complain and now you find the novelty lacking? If this was truly of import to you, in testing you would have seen this and quite simply put the wall there from the start. Sometimes I think the developer of the shaft was fired from your team some time ago, a rift was formed between the developers. Those that liked the brawl and the ones that liked the thinking game, the more combat like game. The second group somehow lost out, and since then there has been nothing but push for ending the long range game in favor of the in your face battles that are the only option it seems now. That was just speculation of course, but the fact remains there are plenty of us that see this anti shaft attitude as simply that, an overt disregard for the those players for the benefit of light hulled "run around in circles" players. Look at star ladder, I mean really, wasps, hornets, and rails, that's it. The game has been consistently reduced to shoot and scoot and no one need fear dashing across the map and really suffering the consequences of doing so. You get blown up, oh well, respawn, and your opponent, well, one or two hits and they too are also cannon fodder. Was this NOT to be a game of ARMORED COMBAT, a brutal and harsh battle field that didn't always move at a hundred miles per hour and sometimes stood still like a chess game until the angle could be found and an attempt made at it?

So tell me, if I get enough shaft players to spam tech support, complaining that the laser is getting them killed too often, by your account, players directly influence your decisions, and thus we could have the ENTIRE laser repealed? REALLY? You will dutifully listen to us whine until you can take it more, ah la "constant spam to tech support team from players who " (are) "being destroyed by kill zones", and you will UNBLOCK those paths and remove my laser beam? Seriously?

Of course you won't, because you are not being honest. You hate the shaft and you hate the idea of the game play it creates. IT was you, after all, that said "If laser is not enough to stop Shaft from camping, I will find more ways to enforce it.".

In the end, if this was all a mistake, it was on the developers part, not the players, and again players are being punished for game play that has been allowed to occur for a very long while. A wall there right of out of testing and this would have been a matter that would have never been spoken of period.

So, for all to see, I am going to put the question and the OFFICIAL TANKI answer here in one place.

QUESTION:

Serpuhov was changed without notice and had walls added that removed access to historically excellent locations for shafts, why?

ANSWER:

The access was removed by a developer who stated that other players complained to tech support about getting shot from players in otherwise historically well known and used locations and the developer seeks to enforce upon the tanki playing community an anti camping environment for shafts.

Thekillerpenguin · February 13, 2015

Hazel-Rah,

Lets talk about the no play zone. How long has Serpuhov been around? How old is that map? As long as I have been playing it's been around I believe. It has been as it is until yesterday. My above above post in reference to Elizabeth clearly details the point about change, need for it, historical precedent, and CAREFULLY managing that. This map has been "learned", the where and what of what works on it, and what doesn't. Complete tactics and strategies have been formed over time.

Serpuhov has been around for a long, long time, but the spot where people like to camp has only been covered with bushes recently. Before that, camouflage was scarce, and few bothered using it due to the lack of cover. The trees were added there recently, and that's when players started camping in there. It was quite hard to dislodge campers who were using the spot (especially if they were using supplies), so this is a welcome update to me. There are plenty of other places to camp in Serpuhov.

tl;dr: that camping spot is a relatively recent phenomenon. It hasn't been there since the map's beginnings, and most, if not all players know how to play well on it without using that camping spot. If you're basing your entire strategy on that spot being there, I don't think that's good planning.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Thekillerpenguin

ELIZABETH1122 · February 13, 2015

It IS a legitimate tactic, but to certain extent. If there is a no-play zone on the map it is there for a reason! Ruining map planning is a huge disservice to overall balance. Shaft will never get update to its power if there will be maps allowing it to camp easily and making up for turret poor power by not intended gameplay features.

As long as Serpukhov one of the most played maps these days, camping shafts on this map making statistics look decent, while the gun really might use some boosting.

It is not lack of power that is not particularly the problem. It seams that It has irritated a select click of players, who want to swan around ruling the center of the park.. Rail gun does not need very much care in aiming, they have it very easy, yet a noisy few of them complain when their invulnerability is put to the test. Instead of looking at why shaft players do park and camp, it appears that a fast ill thought out fix has been applied with no discussion with shaft players just to satisfy these particular players. The reason why shaft players tend to stay immobile is that they are ham strung. They get slaughtered in open play. One on one against practically any other combination, they tend to loose. If instead of hampering them further they were given the resources to play in more open or running battles then players would feel less of a need to camp. Other combinations camp, smokey often does and so might thunder both of which requir no particular effort in aiming and are invisible, .by the time they are discovered by a stationary shaft it is too late. However they have other options open to them, they are more versatile.

At close range any other combination other that the very largest and slowest tanks, can circle a scoped shaft and take pop shots or more destructive chunks at will. The only resource open to a shaft player is to let off a prepared charge and wait for recharge and then wrestle with the attacking player with only incredibly useless arcade shots. Rarely does the shaft player come out on top.

Shaft players tend not to compete for supplies in open play on the whole because out of cover they are exceptionally vulnerable. They tend to stay fairly close to home. How many shaft players compete for gold boxes, few. They can not hit on the run can not load and store a shot exceptionally narrow field of view with no ability to change magnification to a different setting . Exceptionally slow turret. The list is endless yet shaft players are very tenacious and adapt as much as is possible to each constraint put upon them. Taking private satisfaction in overcoming odds. It has it enjoyable moments but recent changes have made it little more than useless.

I have spent a lot of Money, Pounds Stirling, on this game as have others and it is very distressing to see such autocratic undiscussed changes thrust upon us. Why should people keep investing in the game when we see what we have bought being so devalued on a wim, because of the vociferous want to play unchallenged by other players using other kit. We can see plainly just how selfish many folk are on this forum, just look at the moaning over sales or indeed anything.

I left this game for a while because of what has been going on, I came back, reinvested, and now I am very sorry that I did. It basically an enjoyable game but some of the changes and the belated reasoning behind them just leave me uterly cold.

ELIZABETH1122 · February 13, 2015

Serpuhov has been around for a long, long time, but the spot where people like to camp has only been covered with bushes recently. Before that, camouflage was scarce, and few bothered using it due to the lack of cover. The trees were added there recently, and that's when players started camping in there. It was quite hard to dislodge campers who were using the spot (especially if they were using supplies), so this is a welcome update to me. There are plenty of other places to camp in Serpuhov.

tl;dr: that camping spot is a relatively recent phenomenon. It hasn't been there since the map's beginnings, and most, if not all players know how to play well on it without using that camping spot. If you're basing your entire strategy on that spot being there, I don't think that's good planning.

It has never been difficult to remove players from the top ledge. They never lasted very long at all. Granted their are new bushes there but just who put them there? They have only recently been added , why? For what reason? So is it now tiresome if someone snipes you, makes you consider where you are? Is this not just a case of simply " its not cricket old boy"?

Edited February 13, 2015 by ELIZABETH1122

FogOfWar_XXX · February 13, 2015

Seruphov has been around for a long, long time, but the spot where people like to camp has only been covered with bushes recently. Before that, camouflage was scarce, and few bothered using it due to the lack of cover. The trees were added there recently, and that's when players started camping in there. It was quite hard to dislodge campers who were using the spot (especially if they were using supplies), so this is a welcome update to me. There are plenty of other places to camp in Seruphov.

tl;dr: that camping spot is a relatively recent phenomenon. It hasn't been there since the map's beginnings, and most, if not all players know how to play well on it without using that camping spot. If you're basing your entire strategy on that spot being there, I don't think that's good planning.

So that spot, it AND the Blue Team location I mentioned, they were real game changers. The flank with path on it was the wasps dream route, dash in, snag the flag dash back out, and run down a difficult path to chase others on. Considering the point of ingress and egress, with escorts, it's almost an assured flag grab and nearly always a capture if they make it down the ramp. Snipers were often the only thing standing between a highly orgainzed team and the flag capture down that path. Same for the Blue location. Blue team really has no good camp sites. That location at least allowed a sniper to cover the right side of the Red team base and really keep the defender "pile up" to a dull roar in there.

I get what you're saying though, about the lack of cover there before I suppose. I do know that counter sniper is fairly common against that location though, so it's no paradise sitting up there, I can attest to that, and with the laser now it's actually a death sentence after 2 or 3 shots, but then I NEVER drug, and I will FREELY ADMIT that there were a few occasions where I was certain they were drugging over there because I landed 5 shots, full charge on them, and they never went up in flames, and since I try to NOT drug, I never doubled up power, that might have been the only thing that would killed them too.

I actually didn't use the Red Team Island that much, only when my team was that bad OR they rush down the flank was the constant threat. I prefer the shelf ledge right where the barrier is now anyways. Like I said, I'd get popped a lot up there from across the map. The blue team position though I really used that a lot, I MEAN a lot, Blue team is on the decline of the map, so disadvantaged in this regard That one location helped even the sniping odds immensely.

As for planning everything on those spots, of course not, but again, those were power positions of good use under the right circumstances, and Blue team actually had a equalizing location from which to snipe from (and even then, it wasn't spectacular vantage point or anything, the aperture for targets was fairly small from there into the base).

I wonder also, why did they add the vegetation then if it was going to be a problem? Either way, thanks for your input of the history of that map, I was NOT aware of the genesis of the campsite. For the record, how long has it had vegetation there?

Thekillerpenguin · February 13, 2015

I wonder also, why did they add the vegetation then if it was going to be a problem? Either way, thanks for your input of the history of that map, I was NOT aware of the genesis of the campsite. For the record, how long has it had vegetation there?

Vegetation was added a few months ago, maybe even as recent as December. I'm not sure if they realized that it made that camping spot far more viable or not.

jimboe2 · February 13, 2015

You devs are controlling play to much in this game.

This is turning out to be no fun to play anymore.

You make several guns to powerful and weaken others. Soon you will be playing this game youselves.

beaku · February 14, 2015

Big words people. :)

On the serious side though I agree with @FogOfWar_XXX & @ELIZABETH1122. I am sorry to say that I am one of the ex-shaft users. Only one year ago, playing with shaft consisted of planning and skill. Mind you, in spite of severe popularity of railgun I, personally, have found shaft requiring more skill than railgun. Reason? Easy. Shaft is basically a camping weapon. Even before the laser update once the enemy had an idea of shaft's location, shaft was as good as dead. (there are a few exception..mostly large maps like Lost Temple). On most of the maps camping is a tough job. Railgun, unlike shaft, is not restricted to camping and is quite mobile.

When the laser update came, I was quite annoyed but took it as another challenge. I devices few obvious techniques to camp. Obviously my kill rate became lower and I finally had to switch to short ranged weapons to gain score. My shaft has been gaining dust in my garage ever since. Taking away sniping spots and giving an excuse to keep game balanced is, IMO, ********. Sorry for profanity but that's how angry it makes me feel.

What do you mean that player's were getting annoyed by shaft?? Shaft is a sniper. Sniper snipes. That's simple enough. If players were annoyed, they should have worn shaft protection paint. Some might say it is waste of crystals to buy a paint just to save from an annoying weapon...hey let's tell devs to make the weapon obsolete. Why?? I mean that's what you did with Hammer, right?? It is too OP, we said. Buy paints, you said. So why not the same for shaft??

And it's not just shaft. I medium and short range you guys have also made thunder obsolete. I know what guys will think: here is another player blabbing about few weapons getting nerfed ... Hey, I have other weapons too alright. I have all kinds of turrets m1/m2, OK. What I am saying is based on my observation. Thunder has become really obsolete, especially in DM. Smoky and railgun have replaced it in medium ranges and Hammer, in short ranges. You need a drugging m2 thunder (or m1+) in a battle of warrant officers if you even want to make a scratch. You might differ here but this is my observation. Firebird, I would say has been perfect ever since I have been in this game. Only one time in between did it become OP when burning time was infinite. But that was soon resolved.

On the other side we have turrets which have always been advantageous to use. Freeze was example becomes m2 at wo5 when rest are still trying to adapt to m1. The freezing effect and lack of paint only makes it worse( believe me, lava on m1 hornet against m2 freeze doesn't work).

Coming back to shaft, I really think it has been nerfed way beyond the bearable mark. It has become necessary to give shaft users some hope to live on. Since shaft can do nothing better than camp it would not kill all other turrets to add/keep camping spots in maps.

nectau · February 14, 2015

If the problem is that it gives red team too much advantage, then instead of simply blocking it off why not give BLUE team a nice spot to snipe from too. Make it more interesting, not less.

kayitsiz · February 14, 2015

Upper places on Serpuhov is a no-play zone. There is an easy access to kill zones as long as it is a no-play zone. But players keep getting there.

This is not an issue itself, but constant spam to tech support team from players who being destroyed by kill zones... is. So, I've blocked those paths entirely.

As for Shaft, I would improve damage or reloading time rather than leaving it as a pure camping weapon. If laser is not enough to stop Shaft from camping, I will find more ways to enforce it.

About main topic

Nerfing serpuhow (this is also nerfing the map) is the basically fully wrong decide. Few times these positions give to players an advantage and if they get an advantage, that will be with their brain power and skills.

Unfortunately my english is not enough to post this topic, but I have ream all of them and I agree @FogOfWar_XXX and @ELIZABETH1122

You just listening shaft haters Hazel, we have understood!

If shaft is really a problem, why did you add this on the game?

If shaft will ruin completely, I will quit and go to a game that I can use my brain more.

No shaft=Bye bye tanki

When I started to game, there was so much lag because of my computer and connection, and shaft was the only gun that I can play. Today, this is different, but shaft is the one gun that I use it because I like. I like smoky and twins, of course, but I bought them for getting crystals ans use them for crystals.

Edited February 14, 2015 by kayitsiz

Loackie · February 14, 2015

The inital reason for adding the wall...seems kinda silly tbh, but it does prevent camping which is good. (Still had a bad time trying to attack the person up there on the blue team even with Thunder. Camping is a tactic, but it should not be the majority of your gameplay. Not sure if i support or not, but i'm leaning towards supporting it.

beaku · February 14, 2015

The inital reason for adding the wall...seems kinda silly tbh, but it does prevent camping which is good. (Still had a bad time trying to attack the person up there on the blue team even with Thunder. Camping is a tactic, but it should not be the majority of your gameplay. Not sure if i support or not, but i'm leaning towards supporting it.

Campers can easily be nullified by camping yourself. If there is shaft on both teams it will be an equal situation for both teams. No arguments there. I would agree with @kayitsiz. What were devs thinking while adding shaft. Come on man, shaft is meant to be camped with. In most maps shafters have to wait for a long time to get a kill. They lay mines and protect flags. They are an important aspect of the game. And this is what they get?? I agree with laser update as shaft was practically impossible to beat without another shaft before that update. But taking away sniping spots?? That is far too much.

kayitsiz · February 14, 2015

Cologne

Almost no point

Aleksandrowsk

Almost no point

last two map

@beaku is right

Edit:

@DarthvaderjonGTR's post

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, I disagree with this.

I'm not going to type out a thousand word essay to prove my point as others have already done so in a very stylistic manner, it's up to your personal discretion if you choose to disregard their arguments or not read those menacing text walls.

I just have one thing to say. Shaft is a sniping weapon. i already thought the addition of the laser was somewhat bordering on ludicrous, given that that's the last thing a sniper with a decent scope would add to his gun.

Now this change in map which ONLY targets shaft users. That's right, it specifically targets shaft users because no other turrets (who are playing the match seriously I might add) would venture there in the first place.

So basically, there are only about less than 3-5 places for shafts to be used in Serpuhov because let's face it, camouflage behind any sort of vegetation is useless, given the addition of the laser. Shafts are now restricted to hiding behind the limited number of walls/alleys in Serpuhov while users of other turrets are free to roam the whole map.

This update, as well as the last one (the laser thingy) has reduced the dynamics of shaft gameplay in a way I would never have imagined.

I shall sum up the life of a shaft at the moment:

1. Spawn

2. Spend time to drive to one of the few sniping spots

3. Charge and shoot once

4. Get spotted

5. Either get destroyed or spend time to drive to another of the few sniping spots left

6. Repeat step 1 - 5 .

A possible argument to my logic thus far would be: You just need a bit of skill and shaft can still be used effectively.

The problem with this argument is that you are demanding an astronomical amount of skill for shaft to be used effectively at the moment, in comparison to other turrets.

Shaft already has it's fair share of disadvantages. It's inability to roam around the map and collect supply boxes is an apt example. This means shaft users have to really on only their garage supplies with no assistance from map supplies at all. This is obviously very draining on one's drug hoards. Not to mention, in a balanced game, shafts only gain points by damaging opponents. Capturing the flag is out of the question, CP is unplayable.

So why this update? With all due respect , I do not think it is sufficiently justified.

I hope the feedback of the general population of tankers could be considered instead of only the feedback of the vocal few.

Thank you for your time!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't say that anywhere before, but now I say.

Shaft needs astronomical skills to use it except few special situations, so no one use it effectively(even me)

Really, how many skill will we need?

Okay, so lovely railgun need some and more for some situations, but anyways better for more situations.

Edited February 14, 2015 by kayitsiz

DarthvaderjonGTR · February 14, 2015

Honestly, I disagree with this.

I'm not going to type out a thousand word essay to prove my point as others have already done so in a very stylistic manner, it's up to your personal discretion if you choose to disregard their arguments or not read those menacing text walls.

I just have one thing to say. Shaft is a sniping weapon. i already thought the addition of the laser was somewhat bordering on ludicrous, given that that's the last thing a sniper with a decent scope would add to his gun.

Now this change in map which ONLY targets shaft users. That's right, it specifically targets shaft users because no other turrets (who are playing the match seriously I might add) would venture there in the first place.

So basically, there are only about less than 3-5 places for shafts to be used in Serpuhov because let's face it, camouflage behind any sort of vegetation is useless, given the addition of the laser. Shafts are now restricted to hiding behind the limited number of walls/alleys in Serpuhov while users of other turrets are free to roam the whole map.

This update, as well as the last one (the laser thingy) has reduced the dynamics of shaft gameplay in a way I would never have imagined.

I shall sum up the life of a shaft at the moment:

1. Spawn

2. Spend time to drive to one of the few sniping spots

3. Charge and shoot once

4. Get spotted

5. Either get destroyed or spend time to drive to another of the few sniping spots left

6. Repeat step 1 - 5 .

A possible argument to my logic thus far would be: You just need a bit of skill and shaft can still be used effectively.

The problem with this argument is that you are demanding an astronomical amount of skill for shaft to be used effectively at the moment, in comparison to other turrets.

Shaft already has it's fair share of disadvantages. It's inability to roam around the map and collect supply boxes is an apt example. This means shaft users have to really on only their garage supplies with no assistance from map supplies at all. This is obviously very draining on one's drug hoards. Not to mention, in a balanced game, shafts only gain points by damaging opponents. Capturing the flag is out of the question, CP is unplayable.

So why this update? With all due respect , I do not think it is sufficiently justified.

I hope the feedback of the general population of tankers could be considered instead of only the feedback of the vocal few.

Thank you for your time!

ThouShallNot · February 14, 2015

Yes happened to me too, so annoying!

DarthvaderjonGTR · February 14, 2015

Kayitsiz, there is no need to add my post to an edit in one of your earlier posts... Seriously?

kayitsiz · February 14, 2015

Kayitsiz, there is no need to add my post to an edit in one of your earlier posts... Seriously?

I just didn't want to make so much post.

I was trying to quote, but ı couldn't sorry :(

DarthvaderjonGTR · February 14, 2015

I just didn't want to make so much post.

I was trying to quote, but ı couldn't sorry :(

Ok but please fix the quote. It looks spastic. :P

kayitsiz · February 14, 2015

Ok but please fix the quote. It looks spastic. :P

Deja vu! :D

Anyway, someone should to decide as fast as they can what they do with shaft. <_< <_<

Edited February 14, 2015 by kayitsiz

Challenge	Start Date	End Date
1	15.08	29.08
2	29.08	05.09
3	05.09	12.09
4	12.09	19.09
5	19.09	26.09
6	26.09	3.10
7	3.10	10.10
8	10.10	17.10

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