The problems of TO [Part 3: Performance and Neglect]

[Guest]

     Hello tankers, and welcome to the third part of this series! Today I will be lecturing discussing on something that's been an issue for years and why this is so. In short, this involves how performance issues suck and how Tanki X killed TO.... but not the way you think. With no further delay, let us begin

 

     Performance sucks. Every player who has played Tanki knows this. These lags that have been occurring for years haven't been fixed! I'm getting killed by railgun shots that aren't even close to hitting me, and why these are happening on a 80-180 ping range is beyond me. New updates are only making the situation worse, and MF (Matchfailing) just made it unbearable. (Although I won't forget the time when the Clan update occurred 2 years ago.) I remember a vague time where I could play with 30k+ players online and rarely encounter a single lag! Now, the server lags at barely 5k players. What has happened to the game? The answer is simple, it's all the updates that the developers do. Usually there is a "fixing" period after an update but did we see this? Rarely from my experience.  

 

     Now to TX. Picture yourself sometime early in TX development, when Unity was supported by most browsers. Everyone was hyped but in the meantime, TO was gathering dust, and people were leaving left and right because the game just got too boring, yet the devs kept pushing Tanki X. Once Google pulled support for Unity, it was clear that TX wouldn't be the way to go. They then remembered TO and began doing drastic updates to it, desperately trying to make it "new and shiny" once again. But what of the players? When the sudden shock of new updates came out, many players couldn't adapt and simply left. 

 

     TO isn't doing that well either. Look at this graph: 

 

 

 

 

Look at the following info. After New Year's sales 2015 the game began it's slow and steady decline to where we are today. The devs are frantically pushing out updates to make the game look good but... what was the reason why TO was so popular in 2013-2015? Simplicity and advertising. The game was simple to play but hard to master. In addition, the game was advertised so there were a stream of new players to keep the game alive. Once the devs pulled the plug for advertising so they could work on the doomed "Tanki Unity", that's when the game started to die. All these new updates aren't bringing back disenfranchised veterans who might have left the game back in 2016 when the devs pulled the rug from the players in the form of game-changing updates. 

 

     The game is past it's prime, but the devs don't care for what used to be a huge playerbase. They don't care for us, never listen to us, and don't want us to be here. (Except Nives)  Get it? There's a reason why Hazel left this the forum and the reason is simple: He doesn't care. If Hazel replies and says otherwise and looks at Ideas for Maps I'll reconsider this paragraph but for now I'll leave it at that.

I personally don't agree with the last paragraph anymore. However, the devs could do a better job at listening to their players better to bring back disenfranchised veterans.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

Here are the other two parts if you haven't read them:

The Problems of TO [Part 1: The gameplay]

 

The Problems of TO [Part 2: Battles, MUs, and MM]

Edited September 7, 2018 by Guest

[Maf 32,300]

I'll admit right away that I didn't read the whole post yet, but...

TO isn't doing that well either. Look at this graph:

 

I've been following that graph for a long time (first looked at it in early 2014) and I must say that there is one thing that's very peculiar about it. If you compare this graph to WoT (Tanki's major competitor), you will find that while both games follow different paths in the beginning, after the 2014 peak the graphs for both of them are remarkably similar. Here's the link to the comparison (added war thunder as well for good measure): https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=tanki%20online,world%20of%20tanks,war%20thunder
 
So what this shows is not that Tanki itself is losing popularity, but the whole genre of late 2000's MOBA shooters has gone out of fashion, with its audience most likely leaving those games in favour of similar, but more modern games (like overwatch). My point is, don't jump to the conclusion that devs are killing tanki just because of that graph. There are many complicated factors involved in the popularity of a game, so overall it's much more than just a case of "good update/bad update".

 

There's a reason why Hazel left this the forum and the reason is simple: He doesn't care. If Hazel replies and says otherwise and looks at Ideas for Maps I'll reconsider this paragraph but for now I'll leave it at that.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion either. From what I've heard, he left simply because the community treated him badly and blamed every problem on him, calling him incompetent, unqualified, etc. He understood that talking to the community is a waste of time and sanity, so he left it.

[Guest]

I'll admit right away that I didn't read the whole post yet, but...

 

I've been following that graph for a long time (first looked at it in early 2014) and I must say that there is one thing that's very peculiar about it. If you compare this graph to WoT (Tanki's major competitor), you will find that while both games follow different paths in the beginning, after the 2014 peak the graphs for both of them are remarkably similar. Here's the link to the comparison (added war thunder as well for good measure): https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=tanki%20online,world%20of%20tanks,war%20thunder

 

So what this shows is not that Tanki itself is losing popularity, but the whole genre of late 2000's MOBA shooters has gone out of fashion, with its audience most likely leaving those games in favour of similar, but more modern games (like overwatch). My point is, don't jump to the conclusion that devs are killing tanki just because of that graph. There are many complicated factors involved in the popularity of a game, so overall it's much more than just a case of "good update/bad update".

WOT and TO both had different peaks, but yes, it's possible that we're witnessing the death throes of an entire genre. 

 

I was going to talk about this in the main post but I didn't want to get sidetracked  :P

[Guest]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion either. From what I'e heard, he left simply because the community treated him badly and blamed every problem on him, calling him incompetent, unqualified, etc. He understood that talking to the community is a waste of time and sanity, so he left it.

And now the entire community is asking for him again... for what? To use him as a punching bag?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Guest

[Maf 32,300]

And now the entire community is asking for him again... for what? To use him as a punching bag? Are we paying the price for treating him badly?

I personally don't think EN community was treating him badly, since it was mostly the RU forum being toxic, but I guess he had other reasons to stop actively replying. After all, I don't think a lead game dev would have much time to chat on the forums.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

 

I'll admit right away that I didn't read the whole post yet, but...

 

I've been following that graph for a long time (first looked at it in early 2014) and I must say that there is one thing that's very peculiar about it. If you compare this graph to WoT (Tanki's major competitor), you will find that while both games follow different paths in the beginning, after the 2014 peak the graphs for both of them are remarkably similar. Here's the link to the comparison (added war thunder as well for good measure): https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=tanki%20online,world%20of%20tanks,war%20thunder

 

So what this shows is not that Tanki itself is losing popularity, but the whole genre of late 2000's MOBA shooters has gone out of fashion, with its audience most likely leaving those games in favour of similar, but more modern games (like overwatch). My point is, don't jump to the conclusion that devs are killing tanki just because of that graph. There are many complicated factors involved in the popularity of a game, so overall it's much more than just a case of "good update/bad update".

 

 

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion either. From what I'e heard, he left simply because the community treated him badly and blamed every problem on him, calling him incompetent, unqualified, etc. He understood that talking to the community is a waste of time and sanity, so he left it.

 

 

Another reason why people might have left TO could be that they found another game that suits their preference better.

[Guest]

I personally don't think EN community was treating him badly, since it was mostly the RU forum being toxic, but I guess he had other reasons to stop actively replying. After all, I don't think a lead game dev would have much time to chat on the forums.

Still, he could look at it from time to time.

[Maf 32,300]

Still, he could look at it from time to time.

There's no reason to assume that he doesn't.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

WOT and TO both had different peaks, but yes, it's possible that we're witnessing the death throes of an entire genre.

 

I was going to talk about this in the main post but I didn't want to get sidetracked :P

War Thunder will never die...

 

Perfect balance, realistic tactics, armor thickness, penetration and post-penetration effects...

 

One could say: 'When you shoot a tank in War Thunder, it does the SAME damage as when you shoot it in reality.'

 

Other games are not even close to it.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

War Thunder will never die...

Perfect balance, realistic tactics, armor thickness, penetration and post-penetration effects...

One could say: 'When you shoot a tank in War Thunder, it does the SAME damage as when you shoot it in reality.'

Other games are not even close to it.

Just wait ten years from now and we'll see if it still maintains its players. :ph34r:

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

WOT and TO both had different peaks, but yes, it's possible that we're witnessing the death throes of an entire genre. 

We are not witnessing the death throes of a genre. We are just looking at old games, which are far past their prime.

[Guest]

We are not witnessing the death throes of a genre. We are just looking at old games, which are far past their prime.

WOT got a huge graphics update earlier this year and started advertising again, but that hasn't brought any results. (according to google trends)

---

What's interesting is that if you put all three games as "Video/Online games", TO never rises above WOT. However, if those same three games are set to "Search term" TO rises above WOT in 2014.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Guest

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

WOT got a huge graphics update earlier this year and started advertising again, but that hasn't brought any results. (according to google trends)

---

What's interesting is that if you put all three games as "Video/Online games", TO never rises above WOT. However, if those same three games are set to "Search term" TO rises above WOT in 2014.

It's true that 1.0 did not revive WoT as much as the developers would have hoped. But it is still an old game, regardless of graphics - it's past its prime.

 

Google trends is not a reliable source of information by any means.

[Guest]

 

Google trends is not a reliable source of information by any means.

Can you name a more reliable source I can use?

[Total_SkiIl 1,983]

I agree with everything except for this:

 

what was the reason why TO was so popular in 2013-2015? Simplicity and advertising. The game was simple to play but hard to master. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Total_SkiIl

[GorgoBlesk 831]

I agree with everything except for this:

We need to use 5 more keys than in the old good times. 1 for RK, 2 for DA, 3 for DD, 4 for SB and 5 for mine...

[austen_pierce 1,948]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion either. From what I'e heard, he left simply because the community treated him badly and blamed every problem on him, calling him incompetent, unqualified, etc. He understood that talking to the community is a waste of time and sanity, so he left it.

He still talks to us in the VLogs. I haven’t been following the recent Friday Raw, but I do know Hazel joined some of the early live streams.

 

I see his point, though. Interacting directly on the forum... well, people don’t always mind their manners, and I get that Hazel has no patience for those players.

 

On the other hand, the community has lost something since he left the forum. I wonder if he would be open to something like a moderated Ask Hazel thread, where we can go ask whatever we want, but just like I&S, our comments and questions aren’t visible to the public or submitted for Hazel to respond until a moderator pre-screens them. For obvious reasons, such a thread would have to lock for a period of time following game updates.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Sam I have to take issue with your perspective on performance. About two years ago, the programmers went to great effort to address errors in the game, and gave us the downloadable client to improve player experience. Yes there are stil problems, frustrating ones, but remember the A Critical Error Has Occurred...

[Maf 32,300]

On the other hand, the community has lost something since he left the forum. I wonder if he would be open to something like a moderated Ask Hazel thread, where we can go ask whatever we want, but just like I&S, our comments and questions aren’t visible to the public or submitted for Hazel to respond until a moderator pre-screens them. For obvious reasons, such a thread would have to lock for a period of time following game updates.

Sounds interesting, but I feel like the bigger issue here is time. He simply doesn't have the time to go and regularly answer questions and give detailed explanations. Although I'll see what I can do about this.

[Guest]

I want a Part 4! 

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Sounds interesting, but I feel like the bigger issue here is time. He simply doesn't have the time to go and regularly answer questions and give detailed explanations. Although I'll see what I can do about this.

We can set the dial on expectations wherever we want. Could be as little as top X questions, once a week or so.

.

Edited September 9, 2018 by austen_pierce

[Guest]

I agree with everything except for this:

You didn't need to worry about how many supplies you had back then. Hence, more simple than the current meta.

 

Sam I have to take issue with your perspective on performance. About two years ago, the programmers went to great effort to address errors in the game, and gave us the downloadable client to improve player experience. Yes there are stil problems, frustrating ones, but remember the A Critical Error Has Occurred...

They fixed those issues back then, yes, but now they are re-appearing. Or I'm just spoiled with the current performance.  :P

 

I want a Part 4! 

Part 4 will be the conclusion of all the series. After Part 4, however, I will leave the game.  :(

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Can you name a more reliable source I can use?

Time to insert Maf's signature shrug.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Total_SkiIl 1,983]

You didn't need to worry about how many supplies you had back then. Hence, more simple than the current meta.

Actually, you had to more than now. If someone had even 30 of each, they could dominate a whole battle by themselves, same goes for anyone having even 1 product kit, would make them so OP that they would be top in nearly every battle.

 

Plus, missions were added only in 2015, and their prizes were nearly halved soon after. You actually had to just grind before that.

 

Nowadays, even with 0 supplies each you can get to hundreds in about a month or two months time. Just stop yourself from trying to press those shiny numeric buttons.

 

I experienced the grind first-hand in 2015, and would not accept any comments to it being a Utopian balance.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Total_SkiIl