Yeah, I agree with you on all accounts. What this really is is my own subconscious hypocrisy coming to surface. It isn't any better that Shaft is extremely broken because although it may help me it hurts you even more. The only way I was able to justify it was because it helped me win against Vulcan, Gauss, and hull alts for once, and I simply assumed everyone else was in the same boat. I apologize for that, and I'll try not to make the same mistake again. I'm really starting to think that we need to make some sort of forum-wide, organized effort to stop this type of thing from happening, because we're all clearly so damn sick of it.

Hey everyone, I am busy today so I will probably respond slowly (from my phone) as I get a chance, and edit my posts to add ideas. First off, thank you Azonyx for responding quickly. I still think it is hypocritical to take the stance against Shaft when taking advantage of Gauss and Vulcan, even if you understand the f2p point of view (as in have been f2p at one point, like on Vermilion). But all of that aside (it isn't worth fighting about anyway, there are probably hundreds of people who are far more guilty that I'm not attacking on the forum), what I would ask you to do is PLEASE, PLEASE fight against every new broken update that comes out, even the ones you benefit from, and try to get other players on board so we can fix it. Writing this late at night before I go to bed. Tonight I finished the challenge, even post-nerf RFM seems to be going strong and so does Vulcan (mainly I am seeing Vulcans, RFMs are only used paired with high level Boosters now). Shaft in general is still viable for use, but you need to make sure nobody gets close to you or you are absolutely screwed. The main thing which makes Shaft still unbalanced in my opinion is the fact that it pairs WAY to well with the Hornet overdrive. In certain maps, stock shaft is a good hard counter to Vulcan and Gauss, although the rest of the time it is impossible to keep up with these turrets (once when I was playing tonight I got melted by two Vulcan-Hornets without OD while inside a titan dome from full health). Specific maps that are good for sniping have been super integral to me being able to complete this challenge (plus the fact that I got premium from containers at a great time). I was also lucky enough to have saved 474 tankoins, which gave me the ability to get all the pass rewards after I completed the challenge (now I had enough). This challenge ran through thousands of drugs, and I used about ~800 repairs and around 1k of everything else (mostly fighting against Hornet combos to try and get stars). Here is my greatest shaft battle results: (can't post picture cause apparently you can't just upload one) Sandal CP. Score of 415. 26 kills, 0 deaths. 2nd place ? (to a guy with ten kills...) 8126 gs, 14/20 shaft, 14/20 hornet, no drone. Basically, Shaft is still perfectly broken. I can sit behind the little fence and just shoot as fast as I can at anything that comes in front of me, and use the hornet overdrive as fast as I can get it. This strategy works in three maps: Highways, Brest, and Sandal. I am able to be so efficient because when I have the Hornet Overdrive, I can half charge my shot with DD and I am able to take down literally any tank (unless they have Lifeguard of course). I figure if I am willing/able to call for a nerf on the one turret which gives me some modicum of competitiveness against players who have bought heat immunity, heat resistance, maxed their hornets, use maxed defenders, and use maxed vulcans with rubberized rounds, and tear me apart nearly every MM round, you guys should be willing to fight for a more balanced game too. It shouldn't matter what equipment we use, we should try and stay impartial to the situation and think about others and what this means for the future of the game. I think shaft needs two things right now: The reload (from a scope shot) needs to be slowed down a slight bit. The arcade shot (not in RFM) needs a buff. It is absolutely useless. As for the Hornet overdrive, that is causing most of the imbalance with Shaft, and it really needs to be gotten rid of or modified somehow.

1. Yes, it is a rhetorical question (I think the answer is quite clear according to most people's opinions on the forum and probably otherwise). 2. However, the deeper nuance here is the fact that RFM is potentially defensible when placed next to some of the other extremely overpowered pieces of equipment that certain groups of players have been avidly using lately. If RFM was standing alone crushing every other combo in the game, it would be even less defensible than it currently is. Which is to say, not much. 3. The other thing to remember about RFM is although it is hard for new players to pick up (so expensive these days) it is accessible to the general player base, unlike some of the other elements which make Gauss and Vulcan so powerful (heat immunity/EMP Salvo). Meaning, if RFM was broken and normal players bought it or started using it more to counter Gauss/Vulcan/Magnum, they would have a much easier way to counter buyer combos. Third Onion. Here's the thing. The ratings system was not made yesterday, or the day before that. It has been around for years. I highly doubt that any hours on that account were logged before the system. Plus, as you can see, the only equipment said player has upgraded is new equipment, suggesting that the account couldn't have been around for a long period of time. Either that or he played like 600 hours on very low level equipment and did not upgrade a thing. That would explain how nothing except new turrets are upgraded. However, highly doubt that. Plus, I don't think anyone is getting a K/D of +5 with average equipment. Overall, highly doubt you are correct. (After further research, it appears ratings were added in 2015. October 29th) It isn't completely about blaming his behavior (although I do dislike that, and so I choose to say so). The main point I have been trying to make through all of this is that it is extraordinarily hypocritical to first take advantage of the most powerful equipment, beat everyone with normal gear, and then turn around and complain about how another turret has been made extremely broken. Don't you see you have been doing the same thing all along with X equipment that was previously/currently powerful? If your equipment was so good in the first place, can't you use the skills you have learned to at least counter the newest (RFM) threat to your dominance? After all, you have the next best thing...

Well maybe not OP, but I have seen some people do crazy work with it recently in MM battles. I think it has some real potential to be an absolute terror. In my experience, it even does super well in DMs. (It really has raw power potential, not just support value)

I second this. I have been watching lately (since I want to buy Smoky) and I've only seen about 2 or 3 modules per battle. It is oddly rare considering the fact that Smoky doesn't seem to be super uncommon.

And yes, you are right. This game has become literally unplayable because of players like you.

The irony within this thread is so damn thick I could cut it with a knife. It disgusts me that people can be so two-sided. Dear Azonyx, It absolutely floors me that you of all people would be the one to publish a thread with this name and speak the way you did in the first post. The whole reason game breaking buffs are so bad is because of players who treat the game like you do. First, a look at my time with TO and how I have approached the game. I have been playing for ~7 years now, and as of today have 835 hours in the game. I have been extraordinarily conservative with the way I play. For most of the middle ranks, I was saving crystals through Pro Battle Polygon CPs and completing dozens of missions for mission chains so that I could amass a decent amount of supplies. At one point my account had been taken by a friend who subsequently used nearly all of my supplies, leaving me with about 100 of each. This is the original reason I had to play as carefully as I did (also a contributing factor for why my K/D is only .90, it used to be about .70) Once I was able to grind out all of these supplies and crystals, I was finally able to reach the Colonel rank (three stars), at which M3 kits are unlocked. I had saved about 1 million crystals and extremely carefully planned which kits I would buy so that my account would be structured in a way which would benefit my overall performance. I bought the Centaur kit, Raiden kit, and Rock Climber kit. After this, I continued to grind to get micro upgrades for all my new equipment, and over time I picked up some new turrets on mainly 50% sales to accompany my standard hull set. I also bought m3 protections for the turrets which appeared to be the most dangerous. I have used a drone for approx. 50 hours. Fast forward to today. How have players such as you approached the game? First of all, I saw you in battle today before realizing who started this thread. You were running Vulcan and Hornet (huge f'ing surprise) and taking full advantage of the Hornet overdrive you are complaining about, pretty much dominating every player. According to your profile, you are nearly my rank and have spent 654 hours fewer than me carefully building your account to the rank it is at. You use only two specific turrets, Gauss and Vulcan. What portion of the player base uses these you might ask? Generally buyers who want to be able to take advantage of other players, or those who want to be able to keep up with these buyers. You have used a drone (a telltale sign of someone who has been using powerful equipment to abuse other players) for nearly all of your time in game. (166 hours roughly) You have used nearly as many supplies as me (57k vs 69k) and have only played 1/5th of the time I have. Your K/D is 5.43!! Your garage has very little diversity within it, and you clearly play almost exclusively to use the most brokenly powerful combos. Why should we be the ones who have to adapt to your game breaking buyer metas (Vulcan, Gauss) as opposed to you just buying shaft protection and paying 1.2 mil to make it 50% all in the matter of a day? Why is it suddenly so bad to see a turret buffed ridiculously? Is it because you don't have it? How the actual hell can you be the one who complains when you are one of the players who exploits these imbalances and overall ruins the game on a daily basis for many players who haven't paid their way to success? P.S. Yes, I am one of the players who benefited from the inappropriately strong Shaft buff that happened, and yes, I had RFM for maybe a year before this buff took place. It's important to recognize your own bias in writing because that will allow you to make a stronger argument, so here is mine. Why do you even play Tanki if you aren't going to take advantage of the wide variety of turrets and hulls and instead choose to subjugate hundreds of players via buying the newest, most broken, and often paywall locked equipment and using exclusively that?

Thank you everyone for all the detailed and considerate responses! Couple different things I wanted to say. First of all, Smoky is actually 333k from Mk1 as far as I can tell from its wiki page. I would be buying on a 30% off sale, so that comes out to 225400 cry (I am not starting from Mk1, I have Mk 3). Also, thanks for all of the module information guys. In addition to this, I would be running Smoky stock, so that negates possible issues with the heat immunity or resistance. Mostly worried about dolphin modules because of this. My biggest fear is definitely becoming either over-protection from Smoky (aka what happened to Thunder) but more so the fact that they could add a projectile to Smoky. I'm with Darkness that I would probably quit if they do this (probably won't be playing much TO in college anyway so...). Hopefully that indefinite postponement is actually indefinite. Tidebreaker, personally I don't really like striker. I find it unwieldy, and to me it's similar to Magnum where it just feels out of place with the way I play the game. However, after reading your response I will at least give it a try on the test server because I believe it may have potential to be one of my favorites like Smoky, and seems to be a meta sleeper type. For anyone else reading this thread, please respond to my original post because I would like to keep getting more opinions on this subject.

Can I get some opinions on the viability of Smoky at the Legend rank? I have an m1 smoky in my garage currently, and I am considering buying mk7 at the sales on the Fourth of July. I have 449K right now, and I plan to MU it also (all the way to m4 probably). I would use it with Titan, Viking, or Hornet. Here are the benefits I see with Smoky currently: It doesn't appear to be a turret which many players use protection against. It has relatively strong dps and great range. I have experience with it on my alt account. Going as far as checking update history, it has almost no changes in the past few years. It seems to be quite well rounded against most opponents, and pairs well with all my mk7 hulls. It doesn't suffer from a lot of the problems which Thunder does these days. Instant hits. Here are the cons I see: It's a very expensive endeavor to buy and MU a turret because of the MK system. I already have Thunder mk7 with like 13/20 and sledgehammer. Possibility of more protected tanks than I thought in battle. Anyway, once again, any feedback is helpful. - KamiGT