Let's Discuss Thunder!

[Michael828 816]

Nothing is wrong. I'd say it's that way for economic purposes (buying OP alts etc). 

 

I had done calculations in my head many months ago and deduced that SCCM didn't really give it a boost like Sledgehammer. It has its upsides but not like Sledgehammer, especially when it had a 30% decrease in reload time. 

I don't see why 2 alterations have to have a reload decrease when one of them is really the other one but more expensive. It's like SCCM is an alternative to Thunder, and Sledgehammer is an upgrade to that alternative. 

Devs have stated before that all alterations are equal in power, the more expensive ones are probably meant for more interesting scenarios, they aren't priced high because of their power. Duplet and autocannon can easily be swapped for cheaper alterations like dragon breath and supercumulative rounds that still giving a satisfying gameplay experience.

 

This alteration is blatantly inferior to Sledgehammer, it also doesn't have much of an effect on Thunder in that you're still dealing the same DPS. I didn't even know it had an advantage, which is to kill unprotected light hulls slightly faster, as mentioned by Striker above. But that's not enough for something that's supposed to change the mechanics of a turret.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Devs have stated before that all alterations are equal in power, the more expensive ones are probably meant for more interesting scenarios, they aren't priced high because of their power. Duplet and autocannon can easily be swapped for cheaper alterations like dragon breath and supercumulative rounds that still giving a satisfying gameplay experience.

 

This alteration is blatantly inferior to Sledgehammer, it also doesn't have much of an effect on Thunder in that you're still dealing the same DPS. I didn't even know it had an advantage, which is to kill unprotected light hulls slightly faster, as mentioned by Striker above. But that's not enough for something that's supposed to change the mechanics of a turret.

You need to change your expectations, as this is not true.

 

There's a difference between "satisfying gameplay experience"  and "more powerful game play experience".

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Devs have stated before that all alterations are equal in power, the more expensive ones are probably meant for more interesting scenarios, they aren't priced high because of their power. Duplet and autocannon can easily be swapped for cheaper alterations like dragon breath and supercumulative rounds that still giving a satisfying gameplay experience.

 

This alteration is blatantly inferior to Sledgehammer, it also doesn't have much of an effect on Thunder in that you're still dealing the same DPS. I didn't even know it had an advantage, which is to kill unprotected light hulls slightly faster, as mentioned by Striker above. But that's not enough for something that's supposed to change the mechanics of a turret.

They said exactly that. And they said the more expensive alterations were for the more "interesting mechanics". 

 

I remember them saying that all of the alterations are equal in power to its Stock counterpart, but we all know that a lot of alterations do not fit that criterion. 

 

Both of their downsides differ greatly and I can see how they can be separate alterations, but don't make one more powerful than the other and make it more expensive. 

[Michael828 816]

Several alterations are unbalanced, I don't disagree with that, even though in theory they're all supposed to be equal in effectiveness, with each specializing in its own thing.

 

The problem I wanted to shed some light on, from my previous post, was that SCCM is pretty much obsolete compared to Sledgehammer rounds, it needs a change in parameters, to make it serve a different purpose than Sledgehammer and become a more interesting option for players.

 

Hyperspace rounds is a good example, it costs 180,000 crystals, the most expensive Railgun alteration, but its unique ability does not overshadow what the other alterations are capable of. Many players feel comfortable playing with alterations that cost a fraction of what HR does.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Several alterations are unbalanced, I don't disagree with that, even though in theory they're all supposed to be equal in effectiveness, with each specializing in its own thing.

 

The problem I wanted to shed some light on, from my previous post, was that SCCM is pretty much obsolete compared to Sledgehammer rounds, it needs a change in parameters, to make it serve a different purpose than Sledgehammer and become a more interesting option for players.

 

Hyperspace rounds is a good example, it costs 180,000 crystals, the most expensive Railgun alteration, but its unique ability does not overshadow what the other alterations are capable of. Many players feel comfortable playing with alterations that cost a fraction of what HR does.

Or add another nerf to sledgehammer like reduced damage from splash.

[Michael828 816]

Or add another nerf to sledgehammer like reduced damage from splash.

That could genuinely work, at least to balance them out, but preferably I'd like to see Sledgehammer and SCCM each alter different parameters for Thunder.

 

Small caliber charging machine could increase the splash damage radius, ignite a target, or just improve Thunder's vertical auto-aim system in compensation for that -20% min. and max. damage it has. Any of those could potentially be more appealing than a 20% decrease in reload time.

[wolverine848 13,097]

That could genuinely work, at least to balance them out, but preferably I'd like to see Sledgehammer and SCCM each alter different parameters for Thunder.

 

Small caliber charging machine could increase the splash damage radius, ignite a target, or just improve Thunder's vertical auto-aim system in compensation for that -20% min. and max. damage it has. Any of those could potentially be more appealing than a 20% decrease in reload time.

Please no... already enough of that in the game.  pretty soon we will need two protections for every turret...

[Michael828 816]

Please no... already enough of that in the game.  pretty soon we will need two protections for every turret...

That was just an option. I know there's more original ideas which could work better as alterations for Thunder.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

That could genuinely work, at least to balance them out, but preferably I'd like to see Sledgehammer and SCCM each alter different parameters for Thunder.

 

Small caliber charging machine could 1) increase the splash damage radius, 2) ignite a target, or 3) just improve Thunder's vertical auto-aim system in compensation for that -20% min. and max. damage it has. Any of those could potentially be more appealing than a 20% decrease in reload time.

1) that would be weird because the small caliber would have a bigger splash radius than its larger caliber brother. :wacko: Also I can't help but feel that it would make the alteration a direct upgrade from stock thunder. :unsure:

 

2) this would no doubt make the alteration a direct upgrade from stock thunder. Imagine inflicting the burning effect on a group of enemies with just one shot.

 

3) this is probably the most balanced option of the three.

[Michael828 816]

1) that would be weird because the small caliber would have a bigger splash radius than its larger caliber brother. :wacko: Also I can't help but feel that it would make the alteration a direct upgrade from stock thunder. :unsure:

 

2) this would no doubt make the alteration a direct upgrade from stock thunder. Imagine inflicting the burning effect on a group of enemies with just one shot.

 

3) this is probably the most balanced option of the three.

 

Since I also figured it wouldn't be right for SCCM to have an ability which larger-shelled alterations do not, I had to come up with a different alteration for Thunder, and that's actually what I did in the Ideas for Alterations! category. You could check it out if you want, just to give your opinion, and whether some aspects of it may need to be changed or not.

 

I hadn't thoroughly considered the details of that igniting alteration, although I'm certain that I'd restrict the effect only to the tank being directly hit by the projectile, all the others around it would receive normal splash damage. There also would be a downside, but I haven't considered it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I hadn't thoroughly considered the details of that igniting alteration, although I'm certain that I'd restrict the effect only to the tank being directly hit by the projectile, all the others around it would receive normal splash damage. There also would be a downside, but I haven't considered it.

Anything incendiary needs to have a decrease in damage. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

 

I hadn't thoroughly considered the details of that igniting alteration, although I'm certain that I'd restrict the effect only to the tank being directly hit by the projectile, all the others around it would receive normal splash damage. There also would be a downside, but I haven't considered it.

 

You, me, and anyone reasonable enough would restrict the ignition effect to the tank that was hit directly, but at the rate the devs going right now, they would probably make one inflict fire damage to multiple enemies.

[Michael828 816]

Anything incendiary needs to have a decrease in damage. 

It mainly depends on the turret itself. Vulcan for example, had no other parameters that could be altered in compensation for the significant burning damage it dealt, so reducing the base damage seemed like the wisest choice. Smoky had its critical shots, and Hammer had its pellet spreading mechanism, both of which can be changed quite easily, so no damage reduction was necessary for them.

 

I do agree that the most sensible way to balance those alterations is to reduce the damage, so as to prevent the buildup of DPS that can arise from a turret having more than one ability.

[Michael828 816]

Btw I'm certain that devs wouldn't go that far in making an incendiary Thunder alteration burn all targets within the splash radius, but if that was to happen somehow, then it cannot be 300dmg/sec, it should be more like 100 or 50. The duration could be for 3 seconds, like dragons breath. Then they must choose a disadvantage so it won't be considered an upgrade.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Btw I'm certain that devs wouldn't go that far in making an incendiary Thunder alteration burn all targets within the splash radius, but if that was to happen somehow, then it cannot be 300dmg/sec, it should be more like 100 or 50. The duration could be for 3 seconds, like dragons breath. Then they must choose a disadvantage so it won't be considered an upgrade.

I'm afraid the devs would likely make it deal 1000 points per second for 5 seconds. They don't have the best ideas in buffs or nerfs. Cough * remember Vulcan?

[Benefactor 6,888]

Btw I'm certain that devs wouldn't go that far in making an incendiary Thunder alteration burn all targets within the splash radius, but if that was to happen somehow, then it cannot be 300dmg/sec, it should be more like 100 or 50. The duration could be for 3 seconds, like dragons breath. Then they must choose a disadvantage so it won't be considered an upgrade.

I think that is why they removed Incendiary from Magnum.

[Michael828 816]

I think that is why they removed Incendiary from Magnum.

They were also planning an incendiary alteration for Magnum? Great thing they cancelled it.  :D 

 

Don't worry Diesel, it may seem like devs couldn't care less about the game's balance anymore, but I distinctly remember them saying how difficult it was to please everyone, and I don't blame them for that, since there's so many factors they have to take into account before releasing something, and the number of in-game features is constantly increasing.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Btw I'm certain that devs wouldn't go that far in making an incendiary Thunder alteration burn all targets within the splash radius, but if that was to happen somehow, then it cannot be 300dmg/sec, it should be more like 100 or 50. The duration could be for 3 seconds, like dragons breath. Then they must choose a disadvantage so it won't be considered an upgrade.

Doubt that'll happen since the afterburn on any turret, whether it be the primary feature or secondary feature, is locked at 300 HP/sec. 

 

I think that is why they removed Incendiary from Magnum.

Was actually looking forward to that one. I assumed immediately that it would cause balance issues particularly with the Incendiary Bomb. The cryo bomb, I predicted, would be in the Incendiary Bomb's shadow, just like Incendiary Rounds for Smoky is more popular than Cryo Rounds. 

 

They were also planning an incendiary alteration for Magnum? Great thing they cancelled it.  :D

 

 

Don't worry Diesel, it may seem like devs couldn't care less about the game's balance anymore, but I distinctly remember them saying how difficult it was to please everyone, and I don't blame them for that, since there's so many factors they have to take into account before releasing something, and the number of in-game features is constantly increasing.

I am very sure that they are aware of some of the effects certain features will have. Not all, but definitely some. Did they predict that Duplet would take over battles? Probably not. Did they think that Sledgehammer would take over battles? Well, they had many months to see that it was too effective before taking action. As well as the disproportional damage distribution for Shell Destabilisation and Missile launcher "Uranium". 

 

They have the stats. They have the testers. We are left in the dark about the intricate workings of these alterations and are only left to assumptions. 

[Michael828 816]

 

Not everything can be accurately tested on the test server, even if months before release. Sometimes you need a large player base to be able to fully determine all the factors that will influence the effectiveness of an alteration when released in the main servers.

 

I'm not saying devs are saints and haven't made any mistake, because they have made a lot, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're irresponsible when it comes to stuff like balancing, because the task isn't easy.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Welcome back, emilpogi. May your M3 Thunder guide you to victory against the Warrant Officers. 

 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Welcome back, emilpogi. May your M3 Thunder guide you to victory against the Warrant Officers. 

 

Old bulldozer kit.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I've found the best nerf for sledgehammer.

 

For every 15 to 25 metres it goes beyond, 10% will be deducted from its total damage.

 

For example let's use the average of 800:

 

Beyond 15-25 metres = 720.

Past 30-50 metres = 640.

Past 45-75 metres = 560.

Past 60-100 metres = 480.

Past 75-125 metres = 400.

Past 90-150 metres = 320.

Past 105-175 metres = 240.

Past 120-200 metres = 160.

Past 135-225 metres = 80.

Past 150-250 metres = 0?.

 

Is this a good nerf?

[jerry2975 47]

I've not played for 4 months and now I see the thunder as a total cheat! Unplayable! To make money it's useless to change the power of turrets. We're not your pigeons!

[Ninja 10,468]

I've not played for 4 months and now I see the thunder as a total cheat! Unplayable! To make money it's useless to change the power of turrets. We're not your pigeons!

Topic Merged.

[Heles 9,220]

^ what u mean by total cheat and unplayable
Is it coz of the thunder prot?