Let's Discuss Thunder!

[LambSauce 1,884]

3 hours ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

It's easily the best, and quite a lot of fun to use. I'd say pick it up on a sale if possible, because containers may throw endless amounts of paints and other stuff at you. Unless you're in no rush to get it I suppose.

Thunder is old but gold - a classic turret in Tanki.

It's sad that that cancerous turret called Gauss is in such a state, ruining the balance of the mid- and long-ranged turrets.

Magnum is also generally unbalanced (apart from Harpoon imo) but not as much as Gauss.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

On 5/24/2021 at 4:46 PM, LambSauce said:

Thunder is old but gold - a classic turret in Tanki.

It's sad that that cancerous turret called Gauss is in such a state, ruining the balance of the mid- and long-ranged turrets.

Magnum is also generally unbalanced (apart from Harpoon imo) but not as much as Gauss.

Frankly, it only seems weak. I can actually do much better with it than say Gauss or Striker or Magnum even. It's easily much more fun too. If you've been holding off on it because you think it's weak, then that's not the case. It's certainly not the strongest, but it's easy to use, fun to use and quite effective used right. I highly recommend giving it a spin! It's very enjoyable.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I've been enjoying Subcalibre Rounds lately. It required a complete change of mind when using it. It's not helpless, but splash damage does come into play often enough that keeping it would be better than losing it, and for such occasions I'd be using the other augments. 

 

I don't seem to be facing many Thunder protections whenever I'm put in Legend battles (the account is Lieutenant General). Though it does hit hard especially when there are a good number of modules. I think Subcalibre Rounds should have an increased critical hit chance. Especially considering it loses out on critical splash damage that the other Thunder augments have. 

 

[Crossbone 516]

Gauss would've been a very interesting augment for thunder. Too bad they decided to make it a turret rather than an augment.

[ironCzar 36]

Thunder is almost wortless now that the overdrive speed has been reduced significantly.

And only 4 augments while most other turrets have a half dozen or more.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

53 minutes ago, 2shots2kills said:

 Currently, Smoky, Railgun and Gauss do Thunder's job better. Thunder has low damage/dps, self damage and outdated Augments.

Barring the existence of EMP Rounds for Smoky, do you really think Smoky is doing Thunder's job better? And not Striker? 

[2shots2kills 2,364]

On 8/29/2021 at 7:22 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Barring the existence of EMP Rounds for Smoky, do you really think Smoky is doing Thunder's job better? And not Striker? 

I did not have much space to write in that topic. What I wanted to say is that currently any weapon is better then Thunder. Smoky does a better job as a mid range weapon with its choice of augments, from autocannon to armor piercing and EMP.

Any time I start a battle with Thunder I have to change to something else, I never feel so helpless and useless with any other turret, since each has its own role.

I'll write  a quick summary:

Spoiler

 

Melee: 

Firebird - I don't play it but it seems ok from what I see, and decently popular at Legend ranks

Freeze  - pretty good, has 3 great augments in corrosive mix, shock freeze and toxic mix

Isida - insane DPS with adrenaline, not much to say

Tesla - just released so it is busted 

Short range:

Hammer - Great turret with high burst and high crit damage potential

Twins - no complaints, I use it from time to time and it never fails me, even without any status effect. Stable plasma and Plasma acc are more then enough

Ricochet - again great turret, with adrenaline or plasma torch. 

Medium range:

Smoky - the projectiles are weird and often miss for no reason, but it's still pretty good with autocannon or with EMP and Armor piercing, not super strong, but it can defend itself. 

Striker - I do not play it, so I cant really say much about it. It seems to perform ok but I could be wrong

Vulcan - since the IB nerf, it's back on being a mediocre turret, but it still sees play  I was wrong, Vulcan is still very strong.

Thunder - Outclassed at everything. close range it's a joke (low dps and self damage) and it's a joke on medium range and long range (low damage, Scout rail is WAY stronger, and Gauss too)

It is only good when no one has protection against it, but with 50% everywhere and defender, you do 150 damage per shot while rail crits you for 1900 (with scout, and with LCR more than 3200)

Long Range:

Railgun - not much to say here... I use it and I have no problem with it. The high crits can too much but they must be there due to the 50% prot everywhere.

Magnum - do not play it and I hate it. Can't say much about it.

Gauss - Thunder but better, we all know it. Do I have to elaborate? No, I do not.

Shaft - currently busted, I use it on my alt and I am disgusted by it.

 

As you can see, my only problem is Thunder, it does not shine in any aspect and it's severely outclassed. If you are interested, I can elaborate on how I would change it.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by 2shots2kills

[Spy 14,687]

The topic has been updated.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 5/24/2021 at 10:22 AM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Thunder isn't weak really, the thing is that as others have said, augments for turrets such as Gauss and Railgun outdo Thunder. I myself have gone into loads of matches where practically everyone has had Thunder protection, and I've still managed to come out on top with sledgehammer because often times kill stealing is something Thunder can do really well. If you see 2 tanks dueling each other when you have Railgun, you pick a target and attack said target, but with Thunder you can damage them both and try to kill both of them and typically this gets you at least a kill if not 2. This is of course in DM. As for team-based modes, you can always try and time your shots to steal kills. I think one of Thunder's biggest advantages with Sledgehammer is the ease in inflicting splash damage. I don't know if this is just a placebo, but it definitely feels like you have slightly more control over your shot. I, for one, typically manage to hit my shots exactly where I am aiming (by this I mean around 40-60 metres in front, as in shooting say a wall to damage an enemy who went down a certain route). Most often players don't even use this ability to it's fullest and that's such a shame. Off late I haven't been using Thunder much because I don't have EMP immunity for Viking and Viking Thunder is by far and away my favourite combo, but yeah it's definitely not weak. Players just see 50% protections and assume that means you cannot do anything, but this just isn't true. There are a lot more broken/powerful augments in the game if that is what you want, but Thunder is by no means weak in absolute terms. In relative terms, it is weak though because I mean EMP Salvo or stun augments are obviously going to be much more powerful.

This statement is a tad old, but still very agreeable. Thunder is still quite good. If status augments and maybe gauss turret didn't exist, I'd rate it an A, maybe S because its quite strong. But right now I rate it a B, maybe B+.

Only thing that slows it down is stacked protections.

[Abellia 504]

7 hours ago, PirateSpider said:

This statement is a tad old, but still very agreeable. Thunder is still quite good. If status augments and maybe gauss turret didn't exist, I'd rate it an A, maybe S because its quite strong. But right now I rate it a B, maybe B+.

Only thing that slows it down is stacked protections.

Honestly I don't know, even without all the ultra container augments I'd say it's significantly worse off than the majority of the turrets - Firebird, Freeze, Isida, Tesla, Hammer, Twins, Ricochet, Smoky, Striker, Vulcan, Gauss, and *arguably* Railgun.

For 2021, it just has unacceptably low damage output. 2.2 seconds is too slow, and with sledgehammer having pathetic range to do 750+ damage now, there just aren't good options for it now unfortunately.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

2 hours ago, Abellia said:

Honestly I don't know, even without all the ultra container augments I'd say it's significantly worse off than the majority of the turrets - Firebird, Freeze, Isida, Tesla, Hammer, Twins, Ricochet, Smoky, Striker, Vulcan, Gauss, and *arguably* Railgun.

For 2021, it just has unacceptably low damage output. 2.2 seconds is too slow, and with sledgehammer having pathetic range to do 750+ damage now, there just aren't good options for it now unfortunately.

I bought it on this account, and its been doing pretty good. I have been doing pretty good on multiple accounts that have it. Though I guess I have to admit that I have years of experience with it, have it and Brutus from fully MUed, and stay in only decent battles.

 

My marshal account has adrenaline, and in the right battles, its proven to inflict some serious damage.

[Abellia 504]

1 hour ago, PirateSpider said:

I bought it on this account, and its been doing pretty good. I have been doing pretty good on multiple accounts that have it. Though I guess I have to admit that I have years of experience with it, have it and Brutus from fully MUed, and stay in only decent battles.

 

My marshal account has adrenaline, and in the right battles, its proven to inflict some serious damage.

Do you people not want your turret to get buffed?

[PirateSpider 1,489]

52 minutes ago, Abellia said:

Do you people not want your turret to get buffed?

Slightly wouldn't hurt. But we have to also consider that the amount of grizzlies equipped per battle would also increase. And then when that happens, people will say its weak again. So it wouldn't achieve anything except make people wear protection against it when they could use that slot for something else that they find more annoying.

[Abellia 504]

2 hours ago, PirateSpider said:

Slightly wouldn't hurt. But we have to also consider that the amount of grizzlies equipped per battle would also increase. And then when that happens, people will say its weak again. So it wouldn't achieve anything except make people wear protection against it when they could use that slot for something else that they find more annoying.

It's already weak as hell now and people STILL use a ton of grizzlies per battle. @TheCongoSpideris against a critical-related buff to Thunder for this very reason - the many thunders still around would now easily punch through protections. Also - Thunder doesn't need a slight buff - its' reload is a full half second longer than Striker's arcades, it has regular crit damage, half of its augments are downgrades (the closest to that would be Railgun, which has three out of its twelve augments acting as direct downgrades to stock) and unlike Striker or other turrets, it doesn't have any special mechanics, boosted crit damage, or a second firing mode to back it up. As it is, it relies on pure power, and in that department it's somehow one of the weakest turrets. Maybe you can do fine if you leave all the matches where conditions aren't ideal, but you've gotta recognize at some point how rarely conditions are ideal for Thunder to do well - and that in those conditions, other turrets wouldn't just do well, they would excel.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

11 minutes ago, Abellia said:

It's already weak as hell now and people STILL use a ton of grizzlies per battle.

Well that's legend ranked battles for ya. People say they're "more balanced than low rank battles or any battle of any other rank range", but I honestly don't buy that bull crap statement. I mean if they're so much "more balanced and fun" then why are the majority of the legend ranked players always criticize the game or in other cases in a bad mood most of the time?

I already realized how much of a pain playing with legends is gonna be long ago. That's why I'm purposely choosing not to play on my marshal account so much. Because I know it'll be extremely easy to rank up with it, like easier than pouring a glass of water out of the faucet.

And this dumb exp increase doesn't help either, makes things much much worse honestly.

24 minutes ago, Abellia said:

@TheCongoSpideris against a critical-related buff to Thunder for this very reason - the many thunders still around would now easily punch through protections. Also - Thunder doesn't need a slight buff - its' reload is a full half second longer than Striker's arcades, it has regular crit damage, half of its augments are downgrades (the closest to that would be Railgun, which has three out of its twelve augments acting as direct downgrades to stock) and unlike Striker or other turrets, it doesn't have any special mechanics, boosted crit damage, or a second firing mode to back it up. As it is, it relies on pure power, and in that department it's somehow one of the weakest turrets.

Then what do you want from it? Look, I get it, when gauss came out, it practically lost its role and then again when all these status augments and maybe even strikers series of buffs.

But there is one thing it can do better than any other splash turret. It is the best at utilizing its splash mechanics.

Striker has alternating barrels, making it quite difficult.

Magnum requires alot of skill to make the hits, has a massive damage drop off, and a very long reload.

Gauss, twins, ricochet, smoky, and Tesla has splash radius that's too small.

Thunder has all the tools to be really good at what it does. I've killed countless opponents with thunder just by hitting a nearby wall, floor area, ceiling, prop, etc. I've also had kills in some insane spots too.

The only thing that really rivals this ability is strikers RRE cause of how similar the weapons are. But thunder is more accurate, especially at long range. Striker would end up hitting a prop that's in its rockets way due to the two barrels being quite a bit apart from each other and that they alternate.

58 minutes ago, Abellia said:

Maybe you can do fine if you leave all the matches where conditions aren't ideal, but you've gotta recognize at some point how rarely conditions are ideal for Thunder to do well - and that in those conditions, other turrets wouldn't just do well, they would excel.

This all comes back to playing with legends and how unnecessarily complex the requirements are up there.

[Abellia 504]

16 minutes ago, PirateSpider said:

Well that's legend ranked battles for ya. People say they're "more balanced than low rank battles or any battle of any other rank range", but I honestly don't buy that bull crap statement. I mean if they're so much "more balanced and fun" then why are the majority of the legend ranked players always criticize the game or in other cases in a bad mood most of the time?

I already realized how much of a pain playing with legends is gonna be long ago. That's why I'm purposely choosing not to play on my marshal account so much. Because I know it'll be extremely easy to rank up with it, like easier than pouring a glass of water out of the faucet.

And this dumb exp increase doesn't help either, makes things much much worse honestly.

Then what do you want from it? Look, I get it, when gauss came out, it practically lost its role and then again when all these status augments and maybe even strikers series of buffs.

But there is one thing it can do better than any other splash turret. It is the best at utilizing its splash mechanics.

Striker has alternating barrels, making it quite difficult.

Magnum requires alot of skill to make the hits, has a massive damage drop off, and a very long reload.

Gauss, twins, ricochet, smoky, and Tesla has splash radius that's too small.

Thunder has all the tools to be really good at what it does. I've killed countless opponents with thunder just by hitting a nearby wall, floor area, ceiling, prop, etc. I've also had kills in some insane spots too.

The only thing that really rivals this ability is strikers RRE cause of how similar the weapons are. But thunder is more accurate, especially at long range. Striker would end up hitting a prop that's in its rockets way due to the two barrels being quite a bit apart from each other and that they alternate.

This all comes back to playing with legends and how unnecessarily complex the requirements are up there.

Striker's barrels are more of an advantage than a disadvantage - particularly with precise augments like RRE as you mentioned, they just take some getting used to. However, I don't think that Thunder having the easiest way to make use of splash is enough. Splash is not a unique mechanic, and neither is Thunder's ability to make use of it, you're severely underestimating the potential of Striker, Smoky, and Gauss' splash damages, (in my experience, at least). It's also not really a problem with legend battles, as I find that lower rank battles are more prone to severe mechanical (p2w) abuse, even if the slower battles means less of a frustrating "getting stomped" experience than occurs at high ranks.

As for Thunder having all the tools it needs - I really don't think so. Again - even if you say that easy access to splash damage is why it's still good, it simply lacks power. Striker has the advantage of a second firing mode, but I can't help but notice that they also gave it double damage crits, ridiculously fast reload, and an unnecessary damage buff up to 900 damage. Thunder, which is inherently more reliant on its primary (and only) mode, hence deserving of the same if not more power, and has a mildly larger splash radius as its strength, has been stuck in 2019, and has even had its augments stripped bare recently thanks to statistical nerfs that tear open their downsides and make them unplayable next to stock Thunder. How is Thunder fine in 2021? 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Abellia
finger spazzed and i hit enter before i was done typing

[2shots2kills 2,364]

Imo, Thunder needs a rework more than a buff. 

Those are the changes I would personally make. (all the way back, before the RB, Thunder had a fast reload and average damage, with strong impact force)

 

Reduce the reload time from 2.20 to 1.50

Reduce the Damage from 810 to 750

Increase critical rate to a fixed 50% (just like Railgun)

Increase the critical damage from 810 to 900

Increase impact force from 330 to 750 (Railgun has 780)

keep the splash damage and self damage as they already are. 

If you think this is too much, just take a look at Striker. (And remember that Striker has a salvo mode, too.)

Edited October 28, 2021 by 2shots2kills

[wolverine848 13,097]

20 minutes ago, Abellia said:

Striker's barrels are more of an advantage than a disadvantage

What advantage does alternating shots provide?

[Abellia 504]

1 minute ago, wolverine848 said:

What advantage does alternating shots provide?

When you peek-fire, you're exposing less of your hull. It also lets you make tighter shots with RRE from different spots you otherwise wouldn't be able to firing from the center of your turret.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Just now, Abellia said:

When you peek-fire, you're exposing less of your hull. It also lets you make tighter shots with RRE from different spots you otherwise wouldn't be able to firing from the center of your turret.

I don't use RRE, - I take it u don't need to lock on?

For Hunter or Stun peek-abo is useless so the alternating barrels is a complete disadvantage.

 

[Abellia 504]

2 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I don't use RRE, - I take it u don't need to lock on?

For Hunter or Stun peek-abo is useless so the alternating barrels is a complete disadvantage.

 

Yes, you mostly use arcades with RRE. Also, Hunter still fires arcades at people above it (which happens to be the same scenario in which you peek a lot of the time, funnily enough). As for Stun - you shouldn't be using that.

[2shots2kills 2,364]

About Striker alternating barrels: with hovering hulls you can strife left-right and with tracked hulls you can expose a minimal part of your tank and still score a hit.

They are a bonus most of the time (I do use Striker)

Anyway, let's not go too much off topic, we were discussing about Thunder. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 minute ago, Abellia said:

Yes, you mostly use arcades with RRE. Also, Hunter still fires arcades at people above it (which happens to be the same scenario in which you peek a lot of the time, funnily enough). As for Stun - you shouldn't be using that.

Hunter is not nearly as effective without lock-on.

Yes, I know Stun is ridiculous. I use Stun to troll enemies when the fancy takes me.

[Abellia 504]

Just now, wolverine848 said:

Hunter is not nearly as effective without lock-on.

Yes, I know Stun is ridiculous. I use Stun to troll enemies when the fancy takes me.

Yes, but if you try to lock onto people above you, it's just going to slam into whatever they're sitting on. Hence, you use arcades in that scenario, and peek-a-boo is useful. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

48 minutes ago, 2shots2kills said:

Imo, Thunder needs a rework more than a buff. 

Those are the changes I would personally make. (all the way back, before the RB, Thunder had a fast reload and average damage, with strong impact force)

 

Reduce the reload time from 2.20 to 1.50

Reduce the Damage from 810 to 750

Increase critical rate to a fixed 50% (just like Railgun)

Increase the critical damage from 810 to 900

Increase impact force from 330 to 750 (Railgun has 780)

keep the splash damage and self damage as they already are. 

 

49 minutes ago, 2shots2kills said:

If you think this is too much, just take a look at Striker. 

Maybe you should take a look at Smoky first...