Let's Discuss Thunder!

[2shots2kills 2,364]

3 hours ago, Spy said:

The developers mentioned that they have no plans to release new augments for Thunder in one of the Q&A blitzes. 

Spoiler

 

[Abellia 504]

5 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

Guys I want to say a thing, that alot of players consider Thunder us UP.  Thunder is a mediocre turret, and seems like a standard. If we buffed it, it will one-shot Wasp-Hornets with DD, and if we nerfed it - no need.  For being a mediocre, yes that made it boring, not giving you an interesting advantage or somehow.  Players who chose it, that's their decision of playing with a not OP or at least interesting turret. I mean Thunder is in the middle

If by mediocre, you mean that it's currently the worst turret in the game by far, I agree with you. I disagree with Thunder being in the middle - literally every turret provides more value in a team than Thunder does, currently.

[BruhBruhThingThing 413]

13 hours ago, Yveltal9 said:

https://prnt.sc/24ki8bu  from this screenshot apparently, a new alteration for thunder will come out? What's your opinion and your hypothesis about this?

Its blank, meaning they aren't using an alteration for thunder.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

8 hours ago, Spy said:

The developers mentioned that they have no plans to release new augments for Thunder in one of the Q&A blitzes. 

Thunder has so few augments - and no Ultra Container augments - plus it is currently the weakest turret, so that seems bizarre. It is an ideal candidate for new augments, and also for a buff.

It genuinely seems to be the case that Opex-Rah hates Thunder. It has received nerfs even when it was underpowered already, and I remember him commenting about it being "the simplest turret" or something along those lines, and all this talk about no new augments planned. I mean, I don't really use Thunder much - but I feel sad for players that like it.

Thunder has a great use in the game currently - if you are wanting a challenge you can use it, if you are bored owning with OP augments and turrets  Genuinely, I like using Thunder currently as my Garage has now become so strong - with Thunder you nerf yourself so much, that it is like having a weak Garage again. For those with maxed out accounts, definitely a great turret to use when you get bored and want a challenge - not joking.

But I really think Thunder should cease to become a meme turret, and actually get buffed into a real turret some time soon - it should get much needed new augments, and shot effects too!

Edited January 18, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

30 minutes ago, BruhBruhThingThing said:

Its blank, meaning they aren't using an alteration for thunder.

Unreleased augments have that icon (or no icon) when used by testers. 

[2shots2kills 2,364]

34 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

But I really think Thunder should cease to become a meme turret, and actually get buffed into a real turret some time soon - it should get much needed new augments, and shot effects too!

The saddest thing is, Thunder used to be TO's flagship Turret, featured in videos and screenshots. It also was one of the most powerful, and it was incredibly popular.

It had an amazing shot effect accompanied by the satisfying sound of a huge explosion (I guess that's why the turret was named Thunder, each shot coming your way was like an earthquake) 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by 2shots2kills

[JustBlackWolf 875]

oh that sound is so satisfying to hear, it's basically what made me fall in love with the turret back in the day, together with its main feature of splash damage!

Edited January 18, 2022 by JustBlackWolf

[alkyng 3,080]

6 hours ago, Abellia said:

If by mediocre, you mean that it's currently the worst turret in the game by far, I agree with you. I disagree with Thunder being in the middle - literally every turret provides more value in a team than Thunder does, currently.

I meant by mediocre as being in the middle.

Honestly if you looked at low ranks, you see thunders can two-shot hornets, because many of hornets are having it in low upgrades, while thunder players are mostly buyers /or one combo playing.  In the past, Thunder M1 can two-shot Hornet M0 - Thunder M2 two-shot Hornet M1 - Thunder M3 two-shot Hornet M2 - Thunder M3+ two-shot Hornet M3.  And this is happening alot in low ranks, so Thunder is considered alot as an OP turret in the low ranks. 

3 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

plus it is currently the weakest turret,

Wrong, it's very similar to Smoky. Especially after Smoky get a nerf that made it have a projectile speed, Smoky now is missing alot of its shots. And Thunder have a critical splash damage.  I believe that Smoky is stronger, but Thunder is nowhere to be a very weak turret. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by asem.harbi
correct

[2shots2kills 2,364]

6 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Wrong, it's very similar to Smoky. Especially after Smoky get a nerf that made it have a projectile speed, Smoky now is missing alot of its shots. And Thunder have a critical damage.  I believe that Smoky is stronger, but Thunder is nowhere to be a very weak turret. 

Sorry, but no. Just no. Smoky is leagues above Thunder rn. This turret is by far the worst one in the game, and any decent player at Legend rank will avoid it like Covid.

Source: Trust me. Just trust me. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by 2shots2kills

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, 2shots2kills said:

The saddest thing is, Thunder used to be TO's flagship Turret, featured in videos and screenshots. It also was one of the most powerful, and it was incredibly popular.

It had an amazing shot effect accompanied by the satisfying sound of a huge explosion (I guess that's why the turret was named Thunder, each shot coming your way was like an earthquake) 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Interesting info :) I first started playing TO in probably around 2016, although I took a long break and only came back just shortly before we started getting containers from weekly mission chains (so that was 2017/2018? Not quite sure). So Thunder was strong then, though perhaps not the true glory days lol.

17 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

I meant by mediocre as being in the middle.

Honestly if you looked at low ranks, you see thunders can two-shot hornets, because many of hornets are having it in low upgrades, while thunder players are mostly buyers /or one combo playing.  In the past, Thunder M1 can two-shot Hornet M0 - Thunder M2 two-shot Hornet M1 - Thunder M3 two-shot Hornet M2 - Thunder M3+ two-shot Hornet M3.  And this is happening alot in low ranks, so Thunder is considered alot as an OP turret in the low ranks. 

Wrong, it's very similar to Smoky. Especially after Smoky get a nerf that made it have a projectile speed, Smoky now is missing alot of its shots. And Thunder have a critical damage.  I believe that Smoky is stronger, but Thunder is nowhere to be a very weak turret. 

Wow I can't understand this. Thunder OP in the low ranks, for real? I don't personally think Thunder is OP at any rank, it seems clearly the weakest turret at all ranks. I just recently started a lnew account, so I have current experience at low ranks and at Legend. Striker does what Thunder can do better, in basically every area. Smoky, since its recent buff, is very far ahead of Thunder in power level - it is currently a top turret along with Freeze, Striker, Vulcan and possibly also Tesla.
 

10 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

I mean Thunder is in the middle

If you consider Thunder to be "in the middle" in terms of balance - that means that there must be quite a few turrets that are currently worse - or at the very least there must be many turrets on an equal power level to Thunder. Can you tell me which turrets you think are, in that case - which turrets are worse than, or equal to Thunder in the current meta? Because I don't know any - Thunder is clearly the weakest. It was weak, and then it got the splash damage nerf, which made it laughably bad.

The only turret that was recently on an equally bad level with Thunder was Firebird, but it now seems to have had a significant buff. I haven't had much time to assess the new Firebird, but it seems a lot stronger now. So that means Thunder is now on its own, at the very bottom.

Edited January 18, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

46 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Wrong, it's very similar to Smoky. Especially after Smoky get a nerf that made it have a projectile speed, Smoky now is missing alot of its shots. And Thunder have a critical damage.  I believe that Smoky is stronger, but Thunder is nowhere to be a very weak turret. 

Thunder is nowhere near what Smoky is at endgame. 

 

Biggest thing with Thunder right now is that it has no Identity. You compare the stats to those closest to it (medium range turrets) and then branch off to what their gimmicks are.

Striker, which was its closest brother stat-wise has left it in the dust. Smoky received a significant buff in the form of the normal and critical damage being increased together and the significant firing rate buff, as well as a plethora of augments to choose from. Vulcan has its good damage with DPS and can have its main weakness mitigated with a hull augment and can reliably ricochet at mid range. 

Whay does Thunder have currently? Nothing. It's just another run-of-the-mill 750+ damage, 2-second reload turret. The initial rework of Thunder killed the splash and raised the critical splash damage, and to compensate, raised the critical hit rate from 0, 10, 0, 10, 0, 10 to a fixed 15% chance. It was then confirmed weakest turret and what happens next? They nerf the critical hit rate less than a month later. Instead of having 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, it now has 15, 0, 5, 10, 15. 

 

So what happened to Thunder? It lost its splash, gained a slightly increased critical hit rate to compensate, and then quickly lost that increased critical hit rate. Thunder has nothing. Augments do not save it. Sledgehammer is steaming garbage and worse than an Adrenaline Gauss that only shoots arcade shots. SCCM has takes away too much damage to be worth using. Adrenaline no longer gives Thunder a tangible benefit by itself. Subcalibre is the only decent Thunder augment left and funnily enough, it removes the splash. Booster doesn't even give Thunder anything worthwhile. 

 

Striker gets to one-shot light hulls with Booster. High-Precision Aiming System for Smoky now has 750+ damage and, surprise surprise, has a 1.7 second reload. 

 

Thunder is not good and that is a fact. It is statistically underpowered. 

[Abellia 504]

13 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Thunder is not good and that is a fact. It is statistically underpowered. 

We might have misunderstood - Thunder is certainly in the middle of the road, it sure gets run over a lot!

[alkyng 3,080]

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

If you consider Thunder to be "in the middle" in terms of balance - that means that there must be quite a few turrets that are currently worse - or at the very least there must be many turrets on an equal power level to Thunder. Can you tell me which turrets you think are, in that case - which turrets are worse than, or equal to Thunder in the current meta? Because I don't know any - Thunder is clearly the weakest. It was weak, and then it got the splash damage nerf, which made it laughably bad.

As a stock turrets, I see every turret in the game is within game balance and as the power of Thunder except the three intentionally buffed turrets Tesla - Freeze - Striker.

But I agree with you all of Thunder augments are trash except Adrenaline.

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Striker, which was its closest brother stat-wise has left it in the dust. Smoky received a significant buff in the form of the normal and critical damage being increased together and the significant firing rate buff, as well as a plethora of augments to choose from. Vulcan has its good damage with DPS and can have its main weakness mitigated with a hull augment and can reliably ricochet at mid range. 

I believe that Striker is way stronger than Thunder, and this is why I don't use Thunder, Striker is stronger even without salvo mode. 

 

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Whay does Thunder have currently? Nothing. It's just another run-of-the-mill 750+ damage, 2-second reload turret. The initial rework of Thunder killed the splash and raised the critical splash damage, and to compensate, raised the critical hit rate from 0, 10, 0, 10, 0, 10 to a fixed 15% chance. It was then confirmed weakest turret and what happens next? They nerf the critical hit rate less than a month later. Instead of having 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, it now has 15, 0, 5, 10, 15. 

Sorry I wronged when I wrote "critical damage" I meant splash damage.  And I believe that Smoky critical-damage is way stronger than Thunder critical damage, because it have way better average rate + way too strong damage. You right here.

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

So what happened to Thunder? It lost its splash, gained a slightly increased critical hit rate to compensate, and then quickly lost that increased critical hit rate. Thunder has nothing. Augments do not save it. Sledgehammer is steaming garbage and worse than an Adrenaline Gauss that only shoots arcade shots. SCCM has takes away too much damage to be worth using. Adrenaline no longer gives Thunder a tangible benefit by itself. Subcalibre is the only decent Thunder augment left and funnily enough, it removes the splash. Booster doesn't even give Thunder anything worthwhile. 

I believe Thunder Augments are trash. But I think you're very wrong here, Thunder with Adrenaline and Booster any of them can two-shot light hulls. I don't see how we can buff Thunder more, if we increased its damage to 1000 in example, it can two-shot light hulls. I may see we can buff its reload rather than buffing the damage, 2.00s reload or 1.9s. And I believe that SCCM is very weak, because I always have a belief that the damage nerf should be lesser than the reload buff in any turret, so it may be -20% reload & -15% damage.

BTW, I talked alot. In conclusion, I see Thunder as a turret is balanced. But its augments are very weak, I'm really with introducing a new interesting augments for it.

Edited January 18, 2022 by asem.harbi
wronged again with splash?

[DMR 676]

12 hours ago, Spy said:

The developers mentioned that they have no plans to release new augments for Thunder in one of the Q&A blitzes. 

Then can you explain me why Serene is equipping a mysterious alt for thunder lol?

Edited January 18, 2022 by Yveltal9

[Spy 14,687]

27 minutes ago, Yveltal9 said:

Then can you explain me why Serene is equipping a mysterious alt for thunder lol?

He had no augments equipped in the picture you sent.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

3 minutes ago, Spy said:

He had no augments equipped in the picture you sent.

 

4 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Unreleased augments have that icon (or no icon) when used by testers. 

 

[Spy 14,687]

Just now, TheCongoSpider said:

 

I actually didn't know that, thanks for explaining. 

32 minutes ago, Yveltal9 said:

Then can you explain me why Serene is equipping a mysterious alt for thunder lol?

As to that - Sometimes the devs do change their minds regarding statements they made in the past.

[Dopamine 2,161]

Poll reset.

Results of the previous poll can be found on the front page.

[2shots2kills 2,364]

I have played a few games with "new" Thunder w/ Sledgehammer. It is usable, not amazing or anything, but playable. 

You can dish out a lot of damage on close range and the splash is pretty useful (around 600hp per shot), but ofc you have no way to bypass protections, the effective range is pitful and the shots are SLOW. 

 

[Mr.Spark 240]

I think Thunder is the weakest turret now.

It has gotten huge nerf for these years.

I remember I used to get 1st place with thunder 2 years ago.

Now, even top 3 is difficult.

[Abellia 504]

So, after playing with the new Thunder - I can pretty definitively say that Sledgehammer is once again the best Thunder augment.

Math-wise, it still doesn't stack up favorably to Striker, but the advantage comes from being able to bludgeon foes just as reliably as Striker can when in close range without relying on Booster, and the flat splash damage helps it a lot - which also makes losing crits hurt the augment much less. I would also like to note that it sucks with Viking OD, which is always a positive for an augment.
 
Adrenaline is likely your next best shot most of the time - it is essentially a Sledgehammer that rather than being conditional on distance for damage relies on losing health and relies on praying for a crit. Generally speaking, it is always outclassed by Sledgehammer - while technically better than the remaining Thunder augments, there is less reason to use it.

Small Caliber Charging Machine is the only other Thunder augment besides Sledgehammer you would ever have any reason to play - in the case that the map is large or that there are plenty of protection modules about, you play this augment. Otherwise, go play Sledgehammer. 1k is a lot of damage, and as long as you have the maneuverability to get into that range comfortably, you should be playing Sledgehammer. If there are protections...go play a different turret.

Subcaliber Rounds took a huge hit after the update. It went from being the best Thunder augment - capable of reducing reload without the horrible tradeoffs of SCCM and Sledgehammer whilst only losing a little bit with how awful Thunder's splash distribution and crit rate was, to being the worst. It is quite literally just a stock Thunder now, with a tradeoff that genuinely hurts it, given that Thunder has usable splash damage again.

Ranking them as free-to-play options:
Sledgehammer: 8.5/10
Adrenaline: 5.5/10
Small Caliber Charging Machine: 4/10
Subcaliber Rounds: 3/10
Stock Thunder: 5/10

If you are playing Thunder, you should be using Sledgehammer at all times, currently. We have gone full circle from 2019 where Sledgehammer > Adrenaline > Stock > SCCM > Subcaliber back to the exact same scenario.

There aren't many changes left to make Thunder sit comfortably in the game - crit rate buffs to Small Caliber Charging Machine and a reload buff to Subcaliber Rounds. Adrenaline is fine where it is, imo - it's just an option rather than being "this is stock but better and everything else comes with a tradeoff so you pick this" which is the case for so many turrets right now.

[Abellia 504]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:07 PM, Abellia said:

So, after playing with the new Thunder - I can pretty definitively say that Sledgehammer is once again the best Thunder augment.

Math-wise, it still doesn't stack up favorably to Striker, but the advantage comes from being able to bludgeon foes just as reliably as Striker can when in close range without relying on Booster, and the flat splash damage helps it a lot - which also makes losing crits hurt the augment much less. I would also like to note that it sucks with Viking OD, which is always a positive for an augment.
 
Adrenaline is likely your next best shot most of the time - it is essentially a Sledgehammer that rather than being conditional on distance for damage relies on losing health and relies on praying for a crit. Generally speaking, it is always outclassed by Sledgehammer - while technically better than the remaining Thunder augments, there is less reason to use it.

Small Caliber Charging Machine is the only other Thunder augment besides Sledgehammer you would ever have any reason to play - in the case that the map is large or that there are plenty of protection modules about, you play this augment. Otherwise, go play Sledgehammer. 1k is a lot of damage, and as long as you have the maneuverability to get into that range comfortably, you should be playing Sledgehammer. If there are protections...go play a different turret.

Subcaliber Rounds took a huge hit after the update. It went from being the best Thunder augment - capable of reducing reload without the horrible tradeoffs of SCCM and Sledgehammer whilst only losing a little bit with how awful Thunder's splash distribution and crit rate was, to being the worst. It is quite literally just a stock Thunder now, with a tradeoff that genuinely hurts it, given that Thunder has usable splash damage again.

Ranking them as free-to-play options:
Sledgehammer: 8.5/10
Adrenaline: 5.5/10
Small Caliber Charging Machine: 4/10
Subcaliber Rounds: 3/10
Stock Thunder: 5/10

If you are playing Thunder, you should be using Sledgehammer at all times, currently. We have gone full circle from 2019 where Sledgehammer > Adrenaline > Stock > SCCM > Subcaliber back to the exact same scenario.

There aren't many changes left to make Thunder sit comfortably in the game - crit rate buffs to Small Caliber Charging Machine and a reload buff to Subcaliber Rounds. Adrenaline is fine where it is, imo - it's just an option rather than being "this is stock but better and everything else comes with a tradeoff so you pick this" which is the case for so many turrets right now.

Okay, where do I start after the most recent patch?

I'll start with a ranking as free-to-play options:
Sledgehammer: 10/10
Adrenaline: 10/10
Small Caliber Charging Machine: 7/10
Subcaliber Rounds: 6/10
Stock Thunder: 8/10

So now Adrenaline and Sledgehammer. Booster Sledgehammer gives you 32 meters to deal 1.5k+, and without booster it gives you consistent 1k+ damage through most of your range whereas the other Thunders rely on crits to do so. Defender Adrenaline Thunder and Defender Sledgehammer let you deal 1k+ damage whilst using defender - I don't know what else I have to elaborate on here, given that almost all the other "almost 1k damage, 2 second reload" require booster to break 1k. 

Small Caliber Charging Machine is just alright. It has stats good enough to compare to High-Precision Aiming System and brings splash damage with it, so I think it's fine as it is despite being outclassed by most other options within the 2 second reload template.

Subcaliber is just alright. It's fine for those who don't like splash, but considering that they only just buffed Thunder's ability to make use of its splash by net buffing its splash damage to nearly 500+, it seems kind of nonsensical to pick this over Scout, which deals the same damage as it, but with penetration instead of a splash-less projectile.

I think current Thunder is excellent - it is an accessible and excellent option at all stages of the game. Adrenaline and Sledgehammer can compensate for lower modifications in progression, and statistically they are solid enough to compete with other top tier options at endgame.

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/27/2022 at 2:53 PM, Abellia said:

Okay, where do I start after the most recent patch?

I'll start with a ranking as free-to-play options:
Sledgehammer: 10/10
Adrenaline: 10/10
Small Caliber Charging Machine: 7/10
Subcaliber Rounds: 6/10
Stock Thunder: 8/10

So now Adrenaline and Sledgehammer. Booster Sledgehammer gives you 32 meters to deal 1.5k+, and without booster it gives you consistent 1k+ damage through most of your range whereas the other Thunders rely on crits to do so. Defender Adrenaline Thunder and Defender Sledgehammer let you deal 1k+ damage whilst using defender - I don't know what else I have to elaborate on here, given that almost all the other "almost 1k damage, 2 second reload" require booster to break 1k. 

Small Caliber Charging Machine is just alright. It has stats good enough to compare to High-Precision Aiming System and brings splash damage with it, so I think it's fine as it is despite being outclassed by most other options within the 2 second reload template.

Subcaliber is just alright. It's fine for those who don't like splash, but considering that they only just buffed Thunder's ability to make use of its splash by net buffing its splash damage to nearly 500+, it seems kind of nonsensical to pick this over Scout, which deals the same damage as it, but with penetration instead of a splash-less projectile.

I think current Thunder is excellent - it is an accessible and excellent option at all stages of the game. Adrenaline and Sledgehammer can compensate for lower modifications in progression, and statistically they are solid enough to compete with other top tier options at endgame.

I've been playing with the small caliber charging machine and doing really well with it. If there are lots of protections, the critical damage actually makes it usable still. What I have found is helpful is the 1.5 second shot rate. Facing light hulls with skilled turrets (railgun, smoky, etc.) it is able to disrupt their shot enough to be very usable. The splash damage is a bonus when I miss or choose to hit behind hidden enemies while they are waiting for a charge. Overall, it is very playable at the higher ranks. 

[Abellia 504]

17 hours ago, enri_chill said:

I've been playing with the small caliber charging machine and doing really well with it. If there are lots of protections, the critical damage actually makes it usable still. What I have found is helpful is the 1.5 second shot rate. Facing light hulls with skilled turrets (railgun, smoky, etc.) it is able to disrupt their shot enough to be very usable. The splash damage is a bonus when I miss or choose to hit behind hidden enemies while they are waiting for a charge. Overall, it is very playable at the higher ranks. 

Yeah, it's alright, but unfortunately compared to Sledgehammer and Adrenaline I just don't think it does enough

[enri_chill 135]

6 hours ago, Abellia said:

Yeah, it's alright, but unfortunately compared to Sledgehammer and Adrenaline I just don't think it does enough

So by my calculations, you have to be within 0-16 m  for max damage...anything further is minimum (or 371.25 with Sledgehammer). With the normal shooting rate of 2 seconds per shot it seems that on a large board (which I tend to get placed into 9 times out of 10) it is at a supreme disadvantage to the SCCM due to 3 items: rate of fire, no critical damage, and range of max damage being reduced to only melee range. Help me see the benefit on a normal map. Also perhaps you can let me know what hull you pair it with. I have been using hunter and then setting protections on midrange of longrange turrets. Use the OD when facing melee range turrets.