Let's Discuss Firebird!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I have seen it used in battle, there's no downside to it. It's like an improved version of magnum.

Very true. I remember this Osa CTF MM battle I was in and a Magnum was constantly lobbing shots close to our flag. I remember one of the shots hitting me directly and even with 36% protection against magnum for me and 25% less maximum damage for him, it still took a suspiciously good chunk of my HP as a Titan! (I didn't have double armour activated). I agree it is an improved version; I still wouldn't buy it though.

 

I would rather have to face many mortar alteration users in a battle than 2 Compact Tanks users. I honestly hate when they touch me, it always a delayed death, 100% mortality rate for me unless I use a repair kit but even that sometimes doesn't work. 

 

 

These Compact Tanks users are ruining Polygon CPs for me. There is always at least one on the enemy team and what always happens? They ALWAYS come first. They need to decrease the direct damage or something to make it balanced. 2.5 seconds of direct damage is already a lot in my opinion.

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

Since there is a DM mode (attack) and missions that require kills, you need to look at the micro view as well as the macro view.

 

This is not a role-playing game. If someone chooses Isida as their first turret of next m-level, they have the expectation it will compete with other turrets.  If Isida has no chance against firebird (both are knife-fighters) the system is broken.

 

Before the alteration was introduced it was a pretty even battle, though many consider Firebird OP.

After introduction of alt, Isida stands no chance against firebird.  Alts are not supposed to improve a turret. They are supposed to change it's gameplay.  Adding increased DPS AND longer attack time is a mistake.

 

That would be like increasing Isida DPS & energy pool while lowering it's healing abilities. 

That will never happen.  Why?  because it is OP.

Sorry, mate. This game is about Team-Play. That's why there are always 2 teams, except Juggernaut and Deathmatch mode, to be part of a group. I never look at isida vs. firebird or similar, I always pick my tool(including hull, paint, protections) according to map, game mode, team-mates, opponents. After assessing the entire context I get to decide what could work in that environment. It's a terrible strategy to compare a turret with another. You can finish 1st in your team with any turret if you pick the right one and know how to use it. I don't like some of the alts, like the Isida Healing module, pure rubbish, but Isida it's excellent without any alt at all whatsoever. Depends how you use it and where. Strategy is a big part of Tanki if you care for playing smart and efficient.

Edited December 6, 2018 by ZeusBoomBoom

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Sorry, mate. This game is about Team-Play. That's why there are always 2 teams, except Juggernaut and Deathmatch mode, to be part of a group. I never look at isida vs. firebird or similar, I always pick my tool(including hull, paint, protections) according to map, game mode, team-mates, opponents. After assessing the entire context I get to decide what could work in that environment. It's a terrible strategy to compare a turret with another. You can finish 1st in your team with any turret if you pick the right one and know how to use it. I don't like some of the alts, like the Isida Healing module, pure rubbish, but Isida it's excellent without any alt at all whatsoever. Depends how you use it and where. Strategy is a big part of Tanki if you care for playing smart and efficient.

Strategy is thrown out the window when a firebird is in the battle. In fact strategy was never a thing in the game. If you want strategy, go play WOT.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Sorry, mate. This game is about Team-Play. That's why there are always 2 teams, except Juggernaut and Deathmatch mode, to be part of a group. I never look at isida vs. firebird or similar, I always pick my tool(including hull, paint, protections) according to map, game mode, team-mates, opponents. After assessing the entire context I get to decide what could work in that environment. It's a terrible strategy to compare a turret with another. You can finish 1st in your team with any turret if you pick the right one and know how to use it. I don't like some of the alts, like the Isida Healing module, pure rubbish, but Isida it's excellent without any alt at all whatsoever. Depends how you use it and where. Strategy is a big part of Tanki if you care for playing smart and efficient.

It's an 8-minute battle where you can't communicate with half your team.  It's an arcade game.

 

So yes - having equivalent power is important to game balance. Why do you think Isida has high DPS and low energy. BALANCE.

 

You are only looking at this from perspective of someone with a full garage. Lower ranks have way fewer choices.  

So the player with Isida as most upgraded turret... "too bad you can't take on the multiple fires that exist in every battle"?

And speaking of DM - an Isida would lose every time to fire with the alt.  Poor game design.

 

And I'm not comparing apples to oranges.  That would be Isida vs Smoky. 

We are comparing two turrets that have very short range.  Apples to apples.

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

It's an 8-minute battle where you can't communicate with half your team.  It's an arcade game.

 

So yes - having equivalent power is important to game balance. Why do you think Isida has high DPS and low energy. BALANCE.

 

You are only looking at this from perspective of someone with a full garage. Lower ranks have way fewer choices.  

So the player with Isida as most upgraded turret... "too bad you can't take on the multiple fires that exist in every battle"?

And speaking of DM - an Isida would lose every time to fire with the alt.  Poor game design.

 

And I'm not comparing apples to oranges.  That would be Isida vs Smoky. 

We are comparing two turrets that have very short range.  Apples to apples.

I respect your point of view but it is wrong. I play Tanki from 2009 or 2010, so right from the start, I've seen it all, new turrets, new maps, people angry and leaving Tanki after balancing, so I'm not making things up for the sake of conversation.

 

"It's an 8-minute battle where you can't communicate with half your team"

 

This is absolutely not true. It's very easy to communicate with at least 3 players from your team, regardless of what language you speak. You can always tell which one is pro and who isn't by the way they behave in the gameplay, and language is never an impediment. You can also observe, and you should, what your team mates are doing and moving around and you know exactly what you have to do to be part of that team in an efficient way for you to win, as a player and team.

 

"You are only looking at this from perspective of someone with a full garage."

 

From my experience is nice to have lots of options(tools) at hand any given moment, but not necessary. The more options the better, but this is not necessarily the case all the time. There are users that buy things and never learn how to properly use what they bought. I'd say you need 2-3 m4 turrets + 2 m4 hulls + 3 m3 protections to be very competitive. Anything above is a surplus for anyone's needs, and from my point of view mostly for personal fun.

 

Isida vs Firebird is not comparing "apples to apples", doesn't matter if there are similarities, they fulfill different tasks, needs different approach, and as mentioned previously, picking up the right tool, with the right technique, at the right time, in the right place is the key to be good in this game.

Edited December 7, 2018 by ZeusBoomBoom

[wolverine848 13,097]

I respect your point of view but it is wrong. I play Tanki from 2009 or 2010, so right from the start, I've seen it all, new turrets, new maps, people angry and leaving Tanki after balancing, so I'm not making things up for the sake of conversation.

 

 

 

"It's an 8-minute battle where you can't communicate with half your team"

 

This is absolutely not true. It's very easy to communicate with at least 3 players from your team, regardless of what language you speak. You can always tell which one is pro and who isn't by the way they behave in the gameplay, and language is never an impediment. You can also observe, and you should, what your team mates are doing and moving around and you know exactly what you have to do to be part of that team in an efficient way for you to win, as a player and team.

 

"You are only looking at this from perspective of someone with a full garage."

 

From my experience is nice to have lots of options(tools) at hand any given moment, but not necessary. The more options the better, but this is not necessarily the case all the time. There are users that buy things and never learn how to properly use what they bought. I'd say you need 2-3 m4 turrets + 2 m4 hulls + 3 m3 protections to be very competitive. Anything above is a surplus for anyone's needs, and from my point of view mostly for personal fun.

 

Isida vs Firebird is not comparing "apples to apples", doesn't matter if there are similarities, they fulfill different tasks, needs different approach, and as mentioned previously, picking up the right tool, with the right technique, at the right time, in the right place is the key to be good in this game.

 

 

That's awesome you played way back in 2010.  But you know what?  It's a different game - barely resembles the one you started with.

 

Nothing you typed above describes communicating with your team-mates. To say language is never an impediment is like an ostrich burying it's head in the sand.

 

Sure it's nice to have options. But you completely ignore what a W01 can buy and go on to speak of m4 equipment.

 

Isida is very similar to Firebird.  1) Short range 2) HIgh DPS 3) Limited energy pool. They are both knife-fighters that can run out of energy.

At their core they are same thing except Isida can heal and Fire can damage and run.  The alt makes them even closer, but bumps fire up to a new level, which alts are not supposed to do.

 

You are living in the past.

Start a new account, buy an m0 isida, play some DM to complete missions, and see how you fare versus the numerous firebirds found in DM.

[enri_chill 265]

That's awesome you played way back in 2010.  But you know what?  It's a different game - barely resembles the one you started with.

 

Nothing you typed above describes communicating with your team-mates. To say language is never an impediment is like an ostrich burying it's head in the sand.

 

Sure it's nice to have options. But you completely ignore what a W01 can buy and go on to speak of m4 equipment.

 

Isida is very similar to Firebird.  1) Short range 2) HIgh DPS 3) Limited energy pool. They are both knife-fighters that can run out of energy.

At their core they are same thing except Isida can heal and Fire can damage and run.  The alt makes them even closer, but bumps fire up to a new level, which alts are not supposed to do.

 

You are living in the past.

Start a new account, buy an m0 isida, play some DM to complete missions, and see how you fare versus the numerous firebirds found in DM.

Yes, if you play DM then you definitely will see the game very differently. I avoid DM at all costs...no fun IMO. Even missions around it I change. The fun of tanki to me is playing with a team vs. another team. I do wish we had more tools to communicate. It is a rush now for sure. In the past I wasn't able to even think about communication in a game...I was learning how to drive, aim, rotate turret, etc. Now I am a different player and definitely wish I could go back in time and play the older tanki with my current skills.

 

As far as the Isida/FB comparison, you are right. I am saving up for the uber-expensive firebird alt....It should be a brutal addition and quite certainly OP. Once I have it  (2 weeks away), I will let you know.

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

That's awesome you played way back in 2010.  But you know what?  It's a different game - barely resembles the one you started with.

 

Nothing you typed above describes communicating with your team-mates. To say language is never an impediment is like an ostrich burying it's head in the sand.

 

Sure it's nice to have options. But you completely ignore what a W01 can buy and go on to speak of m4 equipment.

 

Isida is very similar to Firebird.  1) Short range 2) HIgh DPS 3) Limited energy pool. They are both knife-fighters that can run out of energy.

At their core they are same thing except Isida can heal and Fire can damage and run.  The alt makes them even closer, but bumps fire up to a new level, which alts are not supposed to do.

 

You are living in the past.

Start a new account, buy an m0 isida, play some DM to complete missions, and see how you fare versus the numerous firebirds found in DM.

Dude, I said that I play SINCE 2010, I didn't come back last week after a 8 years break. :))) I've seen it all, so who lives in the past? I end up in the first 3 players of my team 100% of the time NOW. That's because of the strategy written above, not because I live in the past. And I usually play with 2-3 turrets, everything else I have I use for fun mostly, cause fun was always the fuel that kept me here all this years and not complaining about firebird or isida. :))) PS: I did start from 0 many times when turrets were balanced again and again, when alts were introduced, when developers did everything to f up old players in order to attract new guys like you that now complain about my full garage. :))) 

Edited December 8, 2018 by ZeusBoomBoom

[wolverine848 13,097]

Dude, I said that I play SINCE 2010, I didn't come back last week after a 8 years break. :))) I've seen it all, so who lives in the past? I end up in the first 3 players of my team 100% of the time NOW. That's because of the strategy written above, not because I live in the past. And I usually play with 2-3 turrets, everything else I have I use for fun mostly, cause fun was always the fuel that kept me here all this years and not complaining about firebird or isida. :))) PS: I did start from 0 many times when turrets were balanced again and again, when alts were introduced, when developers did everything to f up old players in order to attract new guys like you that now complain about my full garage. :))) 

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.  Try re-reading my posts a couple more times. Maybe you'll get it.

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

 

 

As far as the Isida/FB comparison, you are right. I am saving up for the uber-expensive firebird alt....It should be a brutal addition and quite certainly OP. Once I have it  (2 weeks away), I will let you know.

 

Keep your savings. turrets and alts are constantly readjusted. Before you know it...poof...recalibrated and off to forum you go complaining on why you don't get any advantage after saving and paying so much for it. :))) People never learn...

Edited December 8, 2018 by ZeusBoomBoom

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.  Try re-reading my posts a couple more times. Maybe you'll get it.

And I think you need to reassess what Tanki is about in order to be good and have fun in the same time constantly. On the next major recalibration people like you are the first to leave the game for something else. I've seen it before so many times. :) Cheers!

[enri_chill 265]

Keep your savings. turrets and alts are constantly readjusted. Before you know it...poof...recalibrated and off to forum you go complaining on why you don't get any advantage after saving and paying so much for it. :))) People never learn...

I usually do not complain too much. I did get frustrated about the vulcan afterburn however...as well as the shaft losing the ability to shoot a partial scoped shot and only lose part of your energy.  Now that they have an alt that allows you to embrace the afterburn and derive some benefit from it (and the shaft now has the light capacitor), then I was fine. But I get your point. Same for a few other alts I bought before the newest releases...nerfed or altered so that I will not use them. The good thing about being at this rank is that the garage is more diverse and I am not hoping for one turret and one hull. For those trying to get to higher ranks, it is incredibly frustrating to have the "cheese" continually moved in rebalances, etc.

Edited December 8, 2018 by enri_chill

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

I usually do not complain too much. I did get frustrated about the vulcan afterburn however...as well as the shaft losing the ability to shoot a partial scoped shot and only lose part of your energy.  Now that they have an alt that allows you to embrace the afterburn and derive some benefit from it (and the shaft now has the light capacitor), then I was fine. But I get your point. Same for a few other alts I bought before the newest releases...nerfed or altered so that I will not use them. The good thing about being at this rank is that the garage is more diverse and I am not hoping for one turret and one hull. For those trying to get to higher ranks, it is incredibly frustrating to have the "cheese" continually moved in rebalances, etc.

 

 

My point is that people should limit their expectations for a specific tool(turret, hull, alteration) and focus on getting a decent garage(2-3 m3/m4 turrets, hulls, protections) and specially on understanding well how that tool can be effective in battle(learning it, understanding players/teams dynamics, battle mods, maps, strategies). There are tons of excellent players doing waaaaay better by being skilled on limited resources than users with lots of options in their garage. I see them all the time, this is not a fairy tell. The Garage is highly overrated. Instead of constantly being focused on savings for a great alt, new turret, drone, etc, people should focus more on their actual skills, cause that makes THE true difference in battle. Even though I have around 8 m4 turrets I mostly use 1, and that is Isida. Why? Because I know how to use it, regardless of the times it has been messed up and down by the devs. I am skilled and very rarely don't finish in the first 3 players of my team when I use it. This is where it's at. Being focused on tools is going to make you upset and frustrated, because you depend on the will of the developers, but being focused on the skill is actually THE key to always come up on top, because you and only you can be the weakest link in the chain. Either you control your gameplay, either Tanki does by relying on its updates. Take your pick! Cheers!

Edited December 8, 2018 by ZeusBoomBoom

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

 

I usually do not complain too much. I did get frustrated about the vulcan afterburn however...as well as the shaft losing the ability to shoot a partial scoped shot and only lose part of your energy.  Now that they have an alt that allows you to embrace the afterburn and derive some benefit from it (and the shaft now has the light capacitor), then I was fine. But I get your point. Same for a few other alts I bought before the newest releases...nerfed or altered so that I will not use them. The good thing about being at this rank is that the garage is more diverse and I am not hoping for one turret and one hull. For those trying to get to higher ranks, it is incredibly frustrating to have the "cheese" continually moved in rebalances, etc.

 

My point is that people should limit their expectations for a specific tool(turret, hull, alteration) and focus on getting a decent garage(2-3 m3/m4 turrets, hulls, protections) and specially on understanding well how that tool can be effective in battle(learning it, understanding players/teams dynamics, battle mods, maps, strategies). There are tons of excellent players doing waaaaay better by being skilled on limited resources than users with lots of options in their garage. I see them all the time, this is not a fairy tell. The Garage is highly overrated. Instead of constantly being focused on savings for a great alt, new turret, drone, etc, people should focus more on their actual skills, cause that makes THE true difference in battle. Even though I have around 8 m4 turrets I mostly use 1, and that is Isida. Why? Because I know how to use it, regardless of the times it has been messed up and down by the devs. I am skilled and very rarely don't finish in the first 3 players of my team when I use it. This is where it's at. Being focused on tools is going to make you upset and frustrated, because you depend on the will of the developers, but being focused on the skill is actually THE key to always come up on top, because you and only you can be the weakest link in the chain. Either you control your gameplay, either Tanki does by relying on its updates. Take your pick! Cheers!

 

So you're saying that having isida, railgun, and hornet as your only pieces of equipment is better than having a diverse garage?

 

If that's the case, then you got it all backwards.

 

And I guess 9 years of playing this game has turned your brain to mush, either that or AP has paid you to say that. :lol:

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

So you're saying that having isida, railgun, and hornet as your only pieces of equipment is better than having a diverse garage?

 

If that's the case, then you got it all backwards.

 

And I guess 9 years of playing this game has turned your brain to mush, either that or AP has paid you to say that. :lol:

In terms of tools...yeah, sometimes less is more. Railgun-Isida-Hornet-Viking m3/m4 + rail/fire/twin m2/m3 protection and you're good to go. You can be VERY competitive with this garage if you learn the game.

 

"And I guess 9 years of playing this game has turned your brain to mush, either that or AP has paid you to say that. :lol:"

 

If that's what you got from a 9 year old veteran....nothing to comment.

[Potdindy 866]

Just played a legend battle with Fire/Hornet...the enemy forgot to bring their protection which is why I've stopped using Fire...I forgot how powerful it is.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Potdindy

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Just played a legend battle with Fire/Hornet...the enemy forgot to bring their protection which is why I've stopped using Fire...I forgot how powerful it is.

Firebird is way OP, pretty much everyone uses it. So protection is a must.

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

Firebird is way OP, pretty much everyone uses it. So protection is a must.

The only OP I see is hammer and magnum, cause not many carry protection against them. Fire, rail, twin, thunder...everyone has protection against them.

[enri_chill 265]

Just played a legend battle with Fire/Hornet...the enemy forgot to bring their protection which is why I've stopped using Fire...I forgot how powerful it is.

I dusted mine off a month or so ago and mu'd it to m4. I already had the compact tank alt...it has been fun. Very few times, however, have I played a team with no protection modules. Hornet/Firebird would dominate for sure!

[enri_chill 265]

My point is that people should limit their expectations for a specific tool(turret, hull, alteration) and focus on getting a decent garage(2-3 m3/m4 turrets, hulls, protections) and specially on understanding well how that tool can be effective in battle(learning it, understanding players/teams dynamics, battle mods, maps, strategies). There are tons of excellent players doing waaaaay better by being skilled on limited resources than users with lots of options in their garage. I see them all the time, this is not a fairy tell. The Garage is highly overrated. Instead of constantly being focused on savings for a great alt, new turret, drone, etc, people should focus more on their actual skills, cause that makes THE true difference in battle. Even though I have around 8 m4 turrets I mostly use 1, and that is Isida. Why? Because I know how to use it, regardless of the times it has been messed up and down by the devs. I am skilled and very rarely don't finish in the first 3 players of my team when I use it. This is where it's at. Being focused on tools is going to make you upset and frustrated, because you depend on the will of the developers, but being focused on the skill is actually THE key to always come up on top, because you and only you can be the weakest link in the chain. Either you control your gameplay, either Tanki does by relying on its updates. Take your pick! Cheers!

I agree in the principle with you for sure. IF the choice is EITHER Having a garage with all m4s (and poor skills) OR Having a garage with 2/3 m4s (and great skills), then you are totally correct. Choose the skills and fewer hulls/turrets for sure. I am banking on doing BOTH/AND, however:)

 

I definitely needed better equipment when I started simply because I was wretched at playing. In fact, I probably still am :D ...but I have been trying to master a handful of tools while improving the entire garage. There have been lots of times that playing with thunder against a team that 90% had 45+ protection against me was NOT helping my team at all. In those times, I like the ability to note what protections they are sporting, choosing a different turret and then having the skill to close the battle gap or even help with a comeback victory.

 

So I don't disagree with you...but I have thoroughly enjoyed the variety of play that a broad garage affords me. I am not GREAT with any one set up (although I think I do well with vulcan/titan; firebird/hornet; rico/thunder/shaft+hunter) but I am SOLID with most and don't hurt my team.

Edited December 9, 2018 by enri_chill

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

The only OP I see is hammer and magnum, cause not many carry protection against them. Fire, rail, twin, thunder...everyone has protection against them.

Firebird is OP even with protection.

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

Firebird is OP even with protection.

Doesn't bother me. And I do have fire protection.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Doesn't bother me. And I do have fire protection.

You're just one person, and so am I. But the difference between you and me is that there would be a lot of people who would agree with my points.

[ZeusBoomBoom 19]

You're just one person, and so am I. But the difference between you and me is that there would be a lot of people who would agree with my points.

If you're attacked by an m4 fire that might be a problem for users of your rank or similar. Once you upgrade it will not matter. I've been through your experience, it's why firebird was my first turret ever bought. Upgrade and you'll be fine.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

If you're attacked by an m4 fire that might be a problem for users of your rank or similar. Once you upgrade it will not matter. I've been through your experience, it's why firebird was my first turret ever bought. Upgrade and you'll be fine.

And what if someone wants to upgrade something else instead? You gonna say "nope too bad go put your crystals into firebird protection"?

 

And why would I want to be in the same battle as an m4 firebird? For me that's like slitting my own wrist, in other words it's suicidal for an m2. Even m1 and m2 firebird give me trouble.

 

And if you're basing it off on ranks then why are there legends that think that firebird is OP? Is it because they don't have strong enough equipment, or is it because they bring up valid points?