Let's Discuss Firebird!

[ZloyDanuJI 409]

And a faster reload...and a wider cone angle...and has the ability to hit multiple tanks at once...

LONG LIVE FIREBIRD!!!

 

thank god i bought incendiary mix instead of compact tanks a couple months ago!

Edited March 13, 2019 by ZloyDanuJI

[IbnouWalid 3]

I have firebird m4 (all) alt, but since last updates & with mix incendiary I have very low damage/s even with double damage.

without double damage it should be 262 & with 525

but most of the time I am far from this like without double damage:60 and with 157 :(

 

I' m gonna do a video but if an admin a mod or who ever can take a look at my 'thing' it would be nice. will post the video as soon as i can

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I have firebird m4 (all) alt, but since last updates & with mix incendiary I have very low damage/s even with double damage.

without double damage it should be 262 & with 525

but most of the time I am far from this like without double damage:60 and with 157 :(

 

I' m gonna do a video but if an admin a mod or who ever can take a look at my 'thing' it would be nice. will post the video as soon as i can

Please do the video. This is rather strange. Incendiary Mix has just been a confusing mess since it came out. 

[OKDad70 862]

Can someone point me to the update description that gave Firebird instant kill? What combination of drones, alterations, et al., give Firebird over 6000 dps? Ricosck, a full M4 Dictator, died twice in one or two ticks (a half-second or faster). Riconot, an M2 Hornet died three times as the fire came on, instant. Instant! As fast as a fully charged Shaft shot.

 

I either missed an update, or there are some new hacks.

 

I suppose we will always have bread and circuses.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Can someone point me to the update description that gave Firebird instant kill? What combination of drones, alterations, et al., give Firebird over 6000 dps? Ricosck, a full M4 Dictator, died twice in one or two ticks (a half-second or faster). Riconot, an M2 Hornet died three times as the fire came on, instant. Instant! As fast as a fully charged Shaft shot.

 

I either missed an update, or there are some new hacks.

 

I suppose we will always have bread and circuses.

M4 Firebird with Incendiary Mix can kill an unprotected M4 Dictator in 1.5 seconds. With Booster drone at 20/20 upgrades, it can kill it in 0.5 seconds. With Viking's Overdrive, it'll kill you on the first tick. 

 

 

For Riconot, that's most likely a Viking player using his/her overdrive while having double damage equipped. I've seen many of my teammates get absolutely dissolved by a Freeze using Viking's Overdrive. Seems too powerful considering there is an increase in the usage suddenly. 

[Mountaingoat11 26]

firbird

[Noghtfly 405]

Does anyone use Incendiary mix? I've tried it on test server, and it looks strong. But most Firebirds I see in the game use Comparct tanks (which I use as well). Is Inccendiary mix not that usefull/strong compared to Compact tanks?

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Does anyone use Incendiary mix? I've tried it on test server, and it looks strong. But most Firebirds I see in the game use Compact tanks (which I use as well). Is Incendiary mix not that usefull/strong compared to Compact tanks?

I tried too. Just Viking-Incendiary Mix with Fox and Spider module.... Dominated the game and not even enemy Firebird can stop me thx to that M4 Fox.

 

It's just, OP. You can deal total of 10,500 damage when energy depletes.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Does anyone use Incendiary mix? I've tried it on test server, and it looks strong. But most Firebirds I see in the game use Comparct tanks (which I use as well). Is Inccendiary mix not that usefull/strong compared to Compact tanks?

Yes, Incendiary Mix is strong and its effects are not accurately represented on the Wiki pages. It pains me every time I see one in battle doing insane damage and the Wiki page on both the EN and RU Wikis still say "+10% Damage".

 

Compact Tanks is useful because you have enough energy to finish off a heavy hull. It's also helps because the afterburn damage is very high and just one second of that flame before you kill them could cost you your life if you don't have protection. It's just more effective. The idea for the alteration makes sense but I really don't like that you could've shot someone for less than a second and be able to kill them some time after. You can still do that with the decreased heating rate but before the nerf, it was too effective. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Yes, Incendiary Mix is strong and its effects are not accurately represented on the Wiki pages. It pains me every time I see one in battle doing insane damage and the Wiki page on both the EN and RU Wikis still say "+10% Damage".

 

Compact Tanks is useful because you have enough energy to finish off a heavy hull. It's also helps because the afterburn damage is very high and just one second of that flame before you kill them could cost you your life if you don't have protection. It's just more effective. The idea for the alteration makes sense but I really don't like that you could've shot someone for less than a second and be able to kill them some time after. You can still do that with the decreased heating rate but before the nerf, it was too effective.

 

I don't know how powerful incendiary mix really is maybe because at my ranks, the only firebirds I see nowadays are frickin compact tanks users.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

I don't know how powerful incendiary mix really is maybe because at my ranks, the only firebirds I see nowadays are frickin compact tanks users.

Well 160k crystals is a lot to fork out for an alteration. They are most likely either waiting for the sale or they just don't know about the effectiveness of it because of inaccurate information on the Wiki that they just like Compact tanks and would prefer not to use anything else because it's "so powerful". 

 

Compact Tanks makes sense as a mechanic but it just seems so unfair that it's basically a delayed death. A Stock Firebird can die after shooting you for 1 second and you'd survive. It's not the same for Compact Tanks. Why should it be a guaranteed death? It's bad enough that the heating rate is increased, they increased the maximum temperature limit which means that an M2 Firebird becomes an M4 Firebird in terms of after burn damage.

 

I just don't see why the devs don't say something about Incendiary Mix. It's clearly OP and not representive of what is stated in the Wiki. I'm wondering if that is happening because they wouldn't have to explain the misinformation because it doesn't state the exact increase in damage anywhere in the alteration's description. We rely on the Wiki for the statistics now; and if the Wiki is wrong, well...that's our problem apparently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Well 160k crystals is a lot to fork out for an alteration. They are most likely either waiting for the sale or they just don't know about the effectiveness of it because of inaccurate information on the Wiki that they just like Compact tanks and would prefer not to use anything else because it's "so powerful". 

 

Compact Tanks makes sense as a mechanic but it just seems so unfair that it's basically a delayed death. A Stock Firebird can die after shooting you for 1 second and you'd survive. It's not the same for Compact Tanks. Why should it be a guaranteed death? It's bad enough that the heating rate is increased, they increased the maximum temperature limit which means that an M2 Firebird becomes an M4 Firebird in terms of after burn damage.

 

I just don't see why the devs don't say something about Incendiary Mix. It's clearly OP and not representive of what is stated in the Wiki. I'm wondering if that is happening because they wouldn't have to explain the misinformation because it doesn't state the exact increase in damage anywhere in the alteration's description. We rely on the Wiki for the statistics now; and if the Wiki is wrong, well...that's our problem apparently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Even stock firebird is OP in my view, I bought m2 and in 3 of 4 DM battles in a row, I ended up at the top of the leader board, the 4th battle I got 2nd place. I stopped using it because I hate exploiting the games flaws.

[SageoftheSixPaths 215]

Incendiary mix makes firebird better than isida in every way higher damage, damage multiple enemies, fire longer, longer range, etc

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

Incendiary mix makes firebird better than isida in every way higher damage, damage multiple enemies, fire longer, longer range, etc

Last I checked Incendiary mix couldn't heal people

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Last I checked Incendiary mix couldn't heal people

In terms of attacking, not healing. It has more damage, less energy consumption, a faster reload, a wider cone angle AND the ability to hit multiple enemies at once. 

 

The only things Isida has one-up on is having to face less protection modules and no weak damage or linear decreases in damage. 

 

Another bad way to look at it is Incendiary Mix Firebird is the opposite of Isida.

Inendiary Mix can fire for 10 seconds and has a 6 second reload. Isida can fire for 6 seconds and has a 10 second reload. Which one is objectively better?

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

In terms of attacking, not healing. It has more damage, less energy consumption, a faster reload, a wider cone angle AND the ability to hit multiple enemies at once. 

 

The only things Isida has one-up on is having to face less protection modules and no weak damage or linear decreases in damage. 

 

Another bad way to look at it is Incendiary Mix Firebird is the opposite of Isida.

Inendiary Mix can fire for 10 seconds and has a 6 second reload. Isida can fire for 6 seconds and has a 10 second reload. Which one is objectively better?

In terms of attacking, Firebird is supposed to be better than Isida. Even without Incendiary Mix. If firebird was not better than Isida at attacking then it for sure wouldn't be as good at support. Firebird outclassing Isida in attacking terms is the way it should be.

[SageoftheSixPaths 215]

In terms of attacking, Firebird is supposed to be better than Isida. Even without Incendiary Mix. If firebird was not better than Isida at attacking then it for sure wouldn't be as good at support. Firebird outclassing Isida in attacking terms is the way it should be.

Nope all melee turrets should be equally good for attacking.

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

Nope all melee turrets should be equally good for attacking.

If that was the case, then firebird would be very underpowered. All firebird would be is a freeze that can't defend or an isida that can't heal. It would be the most useless turret alive and quite possibly not even alive. It's only competitive because it has an advantage in damage distribution. 

 

If you're still not convinced then imagine this. Instead of nerfing firebird (incendiary mix), buff Isida to the attacking potential of it. Slight damage boost, 10 seconds energy 6 second reload, a 2nd beam and all the rest. Both turrets would have the same attacking potential, but people would be leaving the game because of how overpowered Isida is. Why? Because it would have both the strongest attack and a strong support ability. 

 

The other melee turrets can do things other than attack better than firebird. So, firebird should be better at attack. Simplest way to say it. 

[SageoftheSixPaths 215]

In deathmatch, freeze can damage and freeze enemies, firebird can damage and burn enemies, what can isida do other than damaging enemies? Isida's healing is very weak and top it off it's not BENEFICIAL to itself in 1 vs 1 situations. Please think twice or thrice before replying.

Edited May 11, 2019 by SageoftheSixPaths

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Now hear me out. No, the three melee turret's aren't equally balanced but they do have different effects that put them on par with one another more or less.

 

Firebird has that dreaded afteburn which puts its damage on par with Isida's assuming that the target stays within the Firebird's maximum damage range. 

 

Freeze has lower damage but the ability to freeze players which heavily makes up for that damage. For a weapon that freezes, it should have lower damage but if this is how it should be to be competitive, then I'll tolerate it. 

 

Isida has no linear damage decreases - it does full damage for each tick every time. It boasts the highest DPS of the trio for the reason of it only being able to target one enemy at a time. 

 

 

Each effect is great in different situations. Protection module rarity has an impact on the effectiveness of each of them relative to each other. The more powerful it seems, the more likely it is for protection modules to be abundant. Firebird protection seemed to always have been common. After that Firebird rework though, I saw a steep rise in the use of it. Firebird has almost everything over Isida. Faster reload, wider cone angle and the ability to damage multiple enemies at once while also being able to damage those enemies even when out of range (afterburn). Isida only has higher direct damage and a slower energy consumption but that is basically trumped by Firebird's painfully fast reload. Since Isida seems to be weaker, it would make more sense to spend crystals on protection against what would be stronger and more common. This brings Firebird's effectiveness down. Since Isida isn't seen as that relatively powerful, it would have less protection modules to go up against. 

So one turret may be objectively better in terms of statistics and/or practicality but protection modules can make that the opposite. 

 

Freeze: I believe this turret is too powerful right now but it may be negated by the increasing number of protection modules being used against it. With shop kits being able to be purchased two ranks before where it used to be, there have been many early purchases of the Siberian Kit which gives 25% protection against Freeze + an M2 Freeze for the player to dominate with. It would only make sense to buy protection against it since it's so powerful (with the freezing effect and all). If a Freeze sneaks up on you from behind, you're done unless you have a teammate there to kill it. Freeze has more of a surprise factor to it than Firebird and Isida. I see a lot of Freezes up in Legend battles and they come out on top in most of the battles even when faced with 50% protection. I would expect that since they have to get up close and personal to deal damage so making them useless against protection would be bad. The Freezes I see in the lower and mid ranks are just M2s and M3s dominating because players are still playing with M1 or minimally upgraded M2 hulls. 

 

Isida: They wanted to make this turret more attack-oriented so they decreased the energy consumption to give it one more second of attacking from a full energy gauge. Having a narrower cone angle means having your beam disrupted easier. It boasts the highest DPS per second meaning it can take down enemies the fastest if they're stationary. Isida's ability to not have any damage dropoff is great when attacking enemies that are just in reach. That's a big advantage over Firebird and Freeze since they only do 10% of their direct damage when faced with this particular scenario. Not having the ability to hit multiple enemies is a problem that presents itself often. But that is generally not worried about when faced with a relatively minimal number of protection modules.I see waaaaaay more attack-oriented Isidas than support-oriented Isidas so this means that they're tackling Firebird and Freeze's attacking positions hard. 

One thing I'm somewhat sceptical about is how PING affects each one. What I've noticed is that Isida seems to be the one most affected by a higher ping. For reference, I usually have around 100 PING these days. I would notice that I struggle to obtain many damage ticks with Isida on a moving target compared to the same thing with Firebird or Freeze. And then there is the issue of if the target is sticking up to the side of me or not. Many times, they would do this and my Isida loses out on soooooo many ticks of damage. Firebird and Freeze don't really have this problem when I use it in that scenario. 

 

 

Then there are the alterations. These play too much of a role between which of the turrets are better. Let's start with the first alterations: Broadband Emitters and High-Pressure Pump. 

 

As we know, Isida has the narrowest cone angle but is able to deal full damage for a tick no matter the distance within its range. Well, the alteration decreases that maximum range to 15 metres for M4 but widens the cone angle by a lot. This would somewhat make it into a Firebirrd or Freeze in the sense that it deals the full damage closer to the target (just like Firebird and Freeze) but the cone angle is wider (a lot more wide than Firebird and Freeze but that's the gist). 

Firebird and Freeze effectively become an Isida with the High-Pressure Pump alteration. For the Stock versions, the maximum damage range is 10 metres less than the minimum damage range. With the alteration, it doubles the maximum damage range meaning it would be almost on par with Isida and would be able to do the full direct damage in that range but the cone angle is significantly reduced (Isida's cone angle is relatively small compared to theirs). I like that they become one another more or less by those alterations. 

 

Next: Corrosive Mix, Incendiary Mix and Nanomass Reactor:

 

Freezes with Corrosive Mix are closer to being an upgraded Isida. While it still has the linear damage dropoff, it can target multiple enemies within its cone angle while having almost as much damage as Isida. It has less energy consumption meaning it can use that extra second to get even closer to the enemy which if it emptied its tank, it would still do more damage than Isida since the little damage from trying to get the enemy into its maximum damage range would count and the less damage it dealt compared to Isida wouldn't add up to make Isida victorious first. 

 

Sadly, Isida has no alteration to directly increase its damage. Nanomass Reactor is not really great since your kill can always get stolen from you and the enemy may have had protection which you couldn't kill them because of because you only had 3.3 seconds of ammo. This essentially makes the Isida a bit weaker in 1 v 1 situations. 

 

Incendiary Mix in all of its glory is an overpowered mess. It boasts higher statistics than both Isida and Freeze. It has more damage, less energy consumption, faster reload and a wider cone angle (than only Isida). This just makes Firebird blow Isida out of the water. Freeze can combat it since it has the freezing effect but this vs a Corrosive Mix Freeze? They're both on equal terms concerning cone angles so the Firebird would win because of the higher damage. 

 

 

Next: Compact Tanks and Shock Freeze

 

I despise Compact Tanks. When faced with the situation of dying 1 second after shooting the enemy, this will ALWAYS come out on top. It's a delayed kill if the player does not bother to continue shooting you. Isida would do 1,000 or 1,250 damage before dying but this would do more than 2,500 damage after the Firebird is dead. I like the concept but it just seems too broken and devoid of any skill or requirements. The Isida and Freeze can both kill the Firebird but the Firebird will kill them in a matter of seconds right after. 

 

Shock Freeze can win every duel it comes across assuming that it and the enemy is alone with no other interference. Against a Compact Tanks Firebird, it may survive by a hair before having it in the bag. Less damage is undesirable by a lot of the playerbase anyway. 

 

 

Considering all of the three factors, it's safe to say that Firebird would be the most effective with Freeze taking second place and Isida taking 3rd place. 

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Nope all melee turrets should be equally good for attacking.

I think it's situational. They're equally balanced only when the situation matters. 

 

It's kind of like Striker and Thunder. 

 

• Thunder has an instant hit while Striker has a projectile that can be dodged. Thunder has a one-up. 

 

• Thunder has a bigger bigger splash damage radius and has the same maximum splash damage and average splash damage statistics as Striker giving Thunder another one-up against Striker.

 

• They both have the same average damage so Striker has a one up since its reload time is shorter. 

 

• Striker has the ability to lock onto enemies and kill them with one attack so Striker has another one-up on Thunder. 

 

 

They're both useful but their collective balance depends on the situation you find yourself in. In particular situations, Thunder would be better. In Particular situations, Striker would be better. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Thunder has an instant hit.

And that is why Grizzly modules are everywhere.

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

I'm not trying to talk about which is better for 1v1 combat, though I appreciate the information and agree with some things you said. I'm trying to talk about which should be better for 1v1 combat. 

 

In deathmatch, freeze can damage and freeze enemies, firebird can damage and burn enemies, what can isida do other than damaging enemies? Isida's healing is very weak and top it off it's not BENEFICIAL to itself in 1 vs 1 situations. 

If you don't have confidence in using your isida in deathmatch, then don't use your isida in deathmatch.

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

 

 

You are displaying one of the advantages of playing with Isida and not Freeze or Firebird. 

 

What alteration were you using? If you were using any that is.