Let's Discuss Shaft!

[Thekillerpenguin 1,731]

Loackie made mention of Col and above being a true challenge to play with shaft, and one day I guess I'll manage to get into that class (not enough time to play for any reasonable time frame in the near future, but anyways) I can't wait to see what awaits me.  Wasps flying around at light speed, Thunders that kill in a single shot, Ricos that spin you around with two hits to the corner?  Dunno, but I can only imagine that shafts must have it REALLY rough in there.  You'll find me there though. popping caps one day, in a shaft, and that's all there is to it.

Keep in mind that although turrets get a lot more powerful as you go up the rank ladder, the hulls do too. Don't worry, you're not going to get destroyed in one hit by Thunders as long as you use a M2 hull. The main reason why Shaft is a lot harder to play with is the players you're going to be fighting against- most, if not all players at the higher ranks know exactly what to do when faced with a Shaft, so you really need to be good at sniping to survive well.

[LeIouch_Vi_Britannia 6,163]

^

#RulesOfNature xD

[Promissory 569]

I won a DM with Wasp M2 Shaft M1 at this rank C:

It was daaam hard, DAAAM hard. It wasted soome DPs.

[greyat 2,972]

Hmm... I'm putting serious thought into getting Shaft M3, the better to hone my skills with a longer range turret, as I doubt I will reach General rank anytime soon, so M3 Railgun is faaaaaaarrr away.

[LeIouch_Vi_Britannia 6,163]

Hmm... I'm putting serious thought into getting Shaft M3, the better to hone my skills with a longer range turret, as I doubt I will reach General rank anytime soon, so M3 Railgun is faaaaaaarrr away.

If you dont mind losers whining when you kill them and say shafrt is noob and ... buy it :)

 

and you must put a good deal of crystals on it to make it even better that it is,hell better :p

[Athena369 265]

If you dont mind losers whining when you kill them and say shafrt is noob and ... buy it :)

and you must put a good deal of crystals on it to make it even better that it is,hell better :p

plz nu bro. I invested a *nice* amount of crystals to get M4 shaft ( damage is m4 rest is like m3.75. It is NOT,rephrase NOT worth the amount spent on it. The only place I used it was in large/medium maps where I didn't even feel like my shaft had any effect whatsoever to the outcome of the battle...as loackie mentioned somewhere above, noobtube loses it's somewhat OPness after around the rank captain. On the other hand my M4 Thunder can totally do some mind blowing damage and I always feel I'm in control as well as altering the outcome of the battle. The best turrets as I see now to MU d are either thunder or hammer...though I'm smelling a thunder Nerf in the near future.....

 

So yeah,

#ShaftEqualsNoobGenerator as well as #ShaftEqualsCrystalWaster

[Athena369 265]

Long story short, Athena doesn't like anything about Shaft and thinks it makes people "noobs". She stokes the fire on this thread once in a while.

 Thanks for understanding me to the deepest extent possible. It does indeed make people noobs :)  

from our talks on skype,Ive gotten that she is a good guy overal,but with a real hatred of shaft,well,we all hate sth :p

ty ok? But you still owe me "2" :D

[LeIouch_Vi_Britannia 6,163]

Thanks for understanding me to the deepest extent possible. It does indeed make people noobs :)   ty ok? But you still owe me "2" :D

Ill gather up some buyers to say shaft is so weaeaeaeak :p

Then they will over OP it :p

[Athena369 265]

Ill gather up some buyers to say shaft is so weaeaeaeak :p

Then they will over OP it :p

awesome :D bring back that old OP noobtube before the rebalance which could 1 shot everything in the known universe.... :D

[kayitsiz 621]

Ill gather up some buyers to say shaft is so weaeaeaeak :p

Then they will over OP it :p

At least it should kill with one shot Hunter.

Or prevent knockback with pushing...

Shaft need little more.. except laser -_-

[LeIouch_Vi_Britannia 6,163]

At least it should kill with one shot Hunter.

Or prevent knockback with pushing...

Shaft need little more.. except laser -_-

Its m0 should half/shot kill a mammy M4 with 50% against shaft and double armor ^_^

[kayitsiz 621]

Its m0 should half/shot kill a mammy M4 with 50% against shaft and double armor ^_^

Pfff! Shaft M3+ gives 260 damage, Hunter M3+ has 270 heal

Just 10 more -_-

 

And in I don't say impact, I say hull pushing.

You was complaining about being pushed to space, right?

Edited February 19, 2015 by kayitsiz

[LeIouch_Vi_Britannia 6,163]

Pfff! Shaft M3+ gives 260 damage, Hunter M3+ has 270 heal

Just 10 more -_-

well my shaft deals 160 damage while hornet m0 has 165 health,just 6 more :p

 

Nothing a fast arcAde shot cant fix :p

[kayitsiz 621]

well my shaft deals 160 damage while hornet m0 has 165 health,just 6 more :p

Nothing a fast arcAde shot cant fix :p

I said just little more.

 

And isidas?

[LeIouch_Vi_Britannia 6,163]

I said just little more.

And isidas?

Well isidas are some damn pains really needing a one shot :p

[kayitsiz 621]

1.shaft-hunter-sandstone

2.railgun-mammoth-progidi

3.shaft-dictator-sandstone

4.freeze-hornet-emerald

 

 

What makes me happy? Losing against another shaft :)

Edited February 19, 2015 by kayitsiz

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

(FYI: not proofed, I'll read it over later and edit if need be, please don't PM me to tell me it has mistakes)

 

So, enough of listening to the loud mouth bone heads that don't like us.

 

Let's talk about skills, since that seems to be a point of contention.

 

Arcade combat with a shaft.  I DO BELIEVE that too many shafts feel completely helpless in arcade mode.  Let's break this down.

 

Example:

 

M0 Smokey vs M0 Shaft.

 

(for the sake of this conversation we'll forgo the critical damage possibility in arcade mode)

 

Smokey Max Damage: 220,000 / Reload Time (msec): 2 000,0000

Shaft Max Damage: 278,235 / Reload Time (msec): 3 382,3529

 

Lets do the numbers for 5 arcade shots:

 

In roughly 10 seconds (10.14):

 

The Smokey can squeeze off 5 shots at Max 220,000 points of damage per shot, result (assuming max damage on all hits):

1,100,000

The Shaft can get off 3 rounds in the same period of time at Max 278,235 points of damage per shot, result (assuming max damage on all hits):

834,705

 

Okay, so the Smokey is dishing out more damage, but you are certainly not a wimp by any stretch.  In fact, you are only ~265,000 shy of the Smokey after ten seconds of slugging it it out.  Now, a few things to remember.  One, shafts tend to hang in the rear, and opponents tend to get shot in transit, so they are NOT at full health about half the time upon arrival to a point where they can engage you (I am ignoring drugs for this conversation, I loath them.  Yes, they are a very real aspect and might alter the reality of this example greatly, but for now, we'll assume all players have skills, dignity, and some pride).  This is important, because you have been sitting back, outside of the fray, and very chipper and healthy, until said moment, more than likely.  YOU deal more damage from the onset then the enemy does, they only begin to take the upper hand with time as they can fire faster, but every time you hit them, you are dealing substantial amounts of damage regardless.  This is why IT IS important to learn how to maneuver and "dog fight" with rails, ricos, and smokeys.  Freezes and firebirds, those are generally death sentences, and unless you can close the medium range, the thunder will simply fire at angles at your cover and not even try to engage you directly, though if they do, then this applies here too.

 

The flank, it's simple, and it's used against US religiously, and yet I see many shafts that cannot grasp this notion in arcade mode.  In close quarters I have actually found my shaft to be at an advantage to other turrets that fire too fast and do not correct for aim enough.  The idea is to flank AND circle your opponent.  Since you have nearly 4 seconds between shots, you need to learn to drive in circles and adjust the turret independently.  Keep that barrel tip on top of the target, no matter what, and keep moving.  Circling opponents is a VERY effective tactic and it forces them to move and readjust aim as well, and they might be better than you at it because they do it more often, but it's still work, and they miss enough that I do come out on top plenty of times.  The truth is of course, we're not the kings of close quarters, but we need not be push overs, we can still win in many occasions, it just takes patience, practice, and an understanding that you will put odds in your favor, but no guarantees of survival.  We as shafts often, far too often, cannot compute the notion of off setting our immense capability to deal death from a distance and safely and the reality of maybe engaging up close and losing.  Many just let themselves get killed and await a fresh respawn so they can scope into action and do their thing.  Show damn pride and at least TRY to make a go at fighting.  You have no idea how many Smokeys and Ricos I have sent running after ENGAGING them and hitting with the first shot.  They were already beat up, they figured I'd cave, I square off, land the shot, and they know the next one is death, if they don't drug up, all that travel time to the flag was in vain, they ACTUALLY RUN AWAY, in hopes a team mate will come and find me that's in better shape to beat me up.

 

Bottom line, SHAFTS hurt, even in arcade.  We are FAR FROM helpless in a one on one (multiple attackers and yeah, go ahead and squeeze off a round, do a team mate a favor and soften them up, but you're hamburger helper in that case, though stranger things have happened than shafts surviving multiple aggressors, but that was really cavalry to the rescue as that last rail round never left the barrel, they liked their shafts keeping the distance free and clear of dirty smelly enemies).  Take the time to learn how to move and turret at the same time and really get into the habit of squaring off with up close enemies, like I said, you'll be surprised how many one hit kills in arcade you can make.  They are counting on you turning tale and running, or just letting death come.  Give them hell, make them work for that kill, the clock is ticking, any time wasted dealing with you means less time capturing flags, control points, or killing more team mates.  In the end, it's about winning (okay, for shafts, maybe not so much, we feel like we win when we rack up huge kill counts and low death counts, but we need to lift up the team, so yeah), so make the enemies loath you and and fear you and remind them you are not cannon fodder up close and the beat up ones will maybe even start avoiding you in your own base.

 

I need to write a paper on shaft one day or something.

Edited February 19, 2015 by FogOfWar_XXX

[genak138 950]

/\/\/\ Good job. Wow, you even managed to get an upvote from Athena because of a small tutorial on how to NOT be a noob with shaft. Probably the most helpful thing I've read on this topic. Keep it up :)

[Athena369 265]

/\/\/\ Good job. Wow, you even managed to get an upvote from Athena because of a small tutorial on how to NOT be a noob with shaft. Probably the most helpful thing I've read on this topic. Keep it up :)

FYI I only up voted his post because he "suggested" the use of shaft in a different manner which will at least help the noobtube users to improve their skills ina fractional amount. (Using arcade mode =/= big improvement in skills, I stated the reason in one of my posts above). Furthermore eventhough most of the content was mostly off topic with regard to the topic "skills" I do have to appreciate the time spent on making it. So yeah that's why I upvoted. My points still stands though.....

 

It will always be

 

#ShaftEqualsNoobGenerator until they either reorganize the entire turret to fit in the dynamic gameplay and further nerfing of scope mode with addition of damage to arcade mode w/ less reload time for arcade shots.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Athena369

[Loackie 269]

FYI I only up voted his post because he "suggested" the use of shaft in a different manner which will at least help the noobtube users to improve their skills ina fractional amount. (Using arcade mode =/= big improvement in skills, I stated the reason in one of my posts above). Furthermore eventhough most of the content was mostly off topic with regard to the topic "skills" I do have to appreciate the time spent on making it. So yeah that's why I upvoted. My points still stands though.....

 

It will always be

 

#ShaftEqualsNoobGenerator until they either reorganize the entire turret to fit in the dynamic gameplay + further nerfing of scope mode with additions damage to arcade mode w/ less reload time in arcade mode.

The gimmick of Shaft is support though...Perhaps make arcades worth less on the reload bar and have a larger "reload bar" on the turret? (This would make scope shots take longer, and have more incentive to use arcades.)

Edited February 19, 2015 by Loackie

[kayitsiz 621]

(FYI: not proofed, I'll read it over later and edit if need be, please don't PM me to tell me it has mistakes)

 

So, enough of listening to the loud mouth bone heads that don't like us.

 

Let's talk about skills, since that seems to be a point of contention.

 

Arcade combat with a shaft.  I DO BELIEVE that too many shafts feel completely helpless in arcade mode.  Let's break this down.

 

Example:

 

M0 Smokey vs M0 Shaft.

 

(for the sake of this conversation we'll forgo the critical damage possibility in arcade mode)

 

Smokey Max Damage: 220,000 / Reload Time (msec): 2 000,0000

Shaft Max Damage: 278,235 / Reload Time (msec): 3 382,3529

 

Lets do the numbers for 5 arcade shots:

 

In roughly 10 seconds (10.14):

 

The Smokey can squeeze off 5 shots at Max 220,000 points of damage per shot, result (assuming max damage on all hits):

1,100,000

The Shaft can get off 3 rounds in the same period of time at Max 278,235 points of damage per shot, result (assuming max damage on all hits):

834,705

 

Okay, so the Smokey is dishing out more damage, but you are certainly not a wimp by any stretch.  In fact, you are only ~265,000 shy of the Smokey after ten seconds of slugging it it out.  Now, a few things to remember.  One, shafts tend to hang in the rear, and opponents tend to get shot in transit, so they are NOT at full health about half the time upon arrival to a point where they can engage you (I am ignoring drugs for this conversation, I loath them.  Yes, they are a very real aspect and might alter the reality of this example greatly, but for now, we'll assume all players have skills, dignity, and some pride).  This is important, because you have been sitting back, outside of the fray, and very chipper and healthy, until said moment, more than likely.  YOU deal more damage from the onset then the enemy does, they only begin to take the upper hand with time as they can fire faster, but every time you hit them, you are dealing substantial amounts of damage regardless.  This is why IT IS important to learn how to maneuver and "dog fight" with rails, ricos, and smokeys.  Freezes and firebirds, those are generally death sentences, and unless you can close the medium range, the thunder will simply fire at angles at your cover and not even try to engage you directly, though if they do, then this applies here too.

 

The flank, it's simple, and it's used against US religiously, and yet I see many shafts that cannot grasp this notion in arcade mode.  In close quarters I have actually found my shaft to be at an advantage to other turrets that fire too fast and do not correct for aim enough.  The idea is to flank AND circle your opponent.  Since you have nearly 4 seconds between shots, you need to learn to drive in circles and adjust the turret independently.  Keep that barrel tip on top of the target, no matter what, and keep moving.  Circling opponents is a VERY effective tactic and it forces them to move and readjust aim as well, and they might be better than you at it because they do it more often, but it's still work, and they miss enough that I do come out on top plenty of times.  The truth is of course, we're not the kings of close quarters, but we need not be push overs, we can still win in many occasions, it just takes patience, practice, and an understanding that you will put odds in your favor, but no guarantees of survival.  We as shafts often, far too often, cannot compute the notion of off setting our immense capability to deal death from a distance and safely and the reality of maybe engaging up close and losing.  Many just let themselves get killed and await a fresh respawn so they can scope into action and do their thing.  Show damn pride and at least TRY to make a go at fighting.  You have no idea how many Smokeys and Ricos I have sent running after ENGAGING them and hitting with the first shot.  They were already beat up, they figured I'd cave, I square off, land the shot, and they know the next one is death, if they don't drug up, all that travel time to the flag was in vain, they ACTUALLY RUN AWAY, in hopes a team mate will come and find me that's in better shape to beat me up.

 

Bottom line, SHAFTS hurt, even in arcade.  We are FAR FROM helpless in a one on one (multiple attackers and yeah, go ahead and squeeze off a round, do a team mate a favor and soften them up, but you're hamburger helper in that case, though stranger things have happened than shafts surviving multiple aggressors, but that was really cavalry to the rescue as that last rail round never left the barrel, they liked their shafts keeping the distance free and clear of dirty smelly enemies).  Take the time to learn how to move and turret at the same time and really get into the habit of squaring off with up close enemies, like I said, you'll be surprised how many one hit kills in arcade you can make.  They are counting on you turning tale and running, or just letting death come.  Give them hell, make them work for that kill, the clock is ticking, any time wasted dealing with you means less time capturing flags, control points, or killing more team mates.  In the end, it's about winning (okay, for shafts, maybe not so much, we feel like we win when we rack up huge kill counts and low death counts, but we need to lift up the team, so yeah), so make the enemies loath you and and fear you and remind them you are not cannon fodder up close and the beat up ones will maybe even start avoiding you in your own base.

 

I need to write a paper on shaft one day or something.

Okay, that was the best post in this topic for last 2 months. :)

But, I want to express my ideas.

 

First of all, please be patient, my english is not enough yet, I may make some grammer and text mistakes.

 

Now lets start. I always prefer M3+ equipments while I doing compares between them.

 

Shaft's total damage per second is 260/6.5=40

But, just arcede=(46+64)/2.5*2(I will explain something about that)=22

Lowest TDPS in the game.

Smoky is nearly 42.6(I didn't want to comfirm it right now)

 

Great difference.

 

But, if definite time, we shouldn't add first reload time. That can change everythink.

 

For example, 32.5 sec

Shaft will shot 14 times. 55*14=770

Smoky will shot 26 times. If we add 5 cricital, 21*40.5+5*120=1440.5

1440.5/770<42.6/22 (If I remembered smoky's TDPS true)

 

Actually, guns that gives bigger damage per shot gets advantage for starting. That gives an advantage to shaft, but this is not so good as you think.

 

 

And moreover, you skipped these guns "damage shape". Some shafters think that arcede shots are not effective, but this is not just about of arcede shots damage.

 

In my opinion, one of the most hard gun is the game is shaft's arcede mode. First of all, not so fast turning speed.

Secondly, low impact doesn't give enough defence. Thick barrel doesn't help enough to hit long range targets. And relatively fast turning(for long range) make it hard. There are pause time like railgun, because 2 different mode starts with pause, and computer doesn't know that before 0.5 sec. You have to use space button carefully. You should push hard and suddenly while arcede, but calm and long for sniper. Windowscreen moves and make it harder and harder.

However, smoky have good turning for medium range, good impact force not thick.

At least, I made some experiments and got some results about it. I will explain when I'm ready.

 

 

One of the biggest mistake is that shafters sometimes forget which gun do they use. 

Never fight like others! This gun is not just arcede or sniper gun. They have to be harmonic. Shafters are generally using fake-railgun tactics!!  <_<  <_< Shaft tactics are hard to learn, because there is not enough example good player for us. I nearly builded my all tactics alone. No one teached to me shaft. Firstly, I watched others and ı tried to build my lots of tactics from them. However, I understood that I have to do something different and be shafter. I still trying to build shaft's own tactics. "Dog fight" or something else are so different. We have to fuse arcede and sniper mode as much as we can while "dog fightning". The point is that you should bring your your opponent to good position to use your sniper mode. Another way, suplies can change them.

Also, you should still keep your position. Don't forget, you still should avoid from being detected.

You have to be careful about "space button". And, windowscreen...

 

Don't copy, build your tactics. You are using one of the most tactical gun in the game, you have to use your brain effectively.

 

I could write more, but later... :)

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.  I really do wish people could see the potential in playing the shaft to it's fullest.  I'll keep doing things like this, it would appear others, such as kayitsiz, are also inspired to take some time and give some thought to all this.  Again, it's a game, enjoy it, but definitely play it to win.

[greyat 2,972]

Is Athena's opinion on Shaft actually valid?

I have my reservations.

[indian_sniper_PRO 2]

Okay, that was the best post in this topic for last 2 months. :)

But, I want to express my ideas.

 

First of all, please be patient, my english is not enough yet, I may make some grammer and text mistakes.

 

Now lets start. I always prefer M3+ equipments while I doing compares between them.

 

Shaft's total damage per second is 260/6.5=40

But, just arcede=(46+64)/2.5*2(I will explain something about that)=22

Lowest TDPS in the game.

Smoky is nearly 42.6(I didn't want to comfirm it right now)

 

Great difference.

 

But, if definite time, we shouldn't add first reload time. That can change everythink.

 

For example, 32.5 sec

Shaft will shot 14 times. 55*14=770

Smoky will shot 26 times. If we add 5 cricital, 21*40.5+5*120=1440.5

1440.5/770<42.6/22 (If I remembered smoky's TDPS true)

 

Actually, guns that gives bigger damage per shot gets advantage for starting. That gives an advantage to shaft, but this is not so good as you think.

 

 

And moreover, you skipped these guns "damage shape". Some shafters think that arcede shots are not effective, but this is not just about of arcede shots damage.

 

In my opinion, one of the most hard gun is the game is shaft's arcede mode. First of all, not so fast turning speed.

Secondly, low impact doesn't give enough defence. Thick barrel doesn't help enough to hit long range targets. And relatively fast turning(for long range) make it hard. There are pause time like railgun, because 2 different mode starts with pause, and computer doesn't know that before 0.5 sec. You have to use space button carefully. You should push hard and suddenly while arcede, but calm and long for sniper. Windowscreen moves and make it harder and harder.

However, smoky have good turning for medium range, good impact force not thick.

At least, I made some experiments and got some results about it. I will explain when I'm ready.

 

 

One of the biggest mistake is that shafters sometimes forget which gun do they use. 

Never fight like others! This gun is not just arcede or sniper gun. They have to be harmonic. Shafters are generally using fake-railgun tactics!!  <_<  <_< Shaft tactics are hard to learn, because there is not enough example good player for us. I nearly builded my all tactics alone. No one teached to me shaft. Firstly, I watched others and ı tried to build my lots of tactics from them. However, I understood that I have to do something different and be shafter. I still trying to build shaft's own tactics. "Dog fight" or something else are so different. We have to fuse arcede and sniper mode as much as we can while "dog fightning". The point is that you should bring your your opponent to good position to use your sniper mode. Another way, suplies can change them.

Also, you should still keep your position. Don't forget, you still should avoid from being detected.

You have to be careful about "space button". And, windowscreen...

 

Don't copy, build your tactics. You are using one of the most tactical gun in the game, you have to use your brain effectively.

 

I could write more, but later... :)

 

 

Yes, shots should be continous,take out the biggest threat first, no one realizes the advantage of shafts for the flag grabbers,snipers breaks other team defence,making it easy for them.my largest kill at my rank for 60min CTF was 186 which had higher ranks than me..;-)

[kayitsiz 621]

Yes, shots should be continous,take out the biggest threat first, no one realizes the advantage of shafts for the flag grabbers,snipers breaks other team defence,making it easy for them.my largest kill at my rank for 60min CTF was 186 which had higher ranks than me..;-)

Except druggers, shafters get the most kill for lots of battle.