Let's Discuss Shaft!

Hayagriva · April 24, 2015

Joining the enemy team because your team is being beaten up? That's something I wouldn't dare think about. I know it's a problem with a bunch of teammates who don't cooperate, but I'd rather go down fighting than betray the few of my teammates who are actually putting up a fight

Respect man.

Thats the spirit.

Even if You did not win - You knwo that You are in the right club...

RESPEKT MAN

Hayagriva · April 24, 2015

I don't want to play until shaft is fixed.

I have lost my reason to play this game.

Respekt man.

Meaby some paint wil help :) hahaha

Like with OP hummer.

On video blok was info that problem was about a not having a paint.

Here meaby it is enough too - to buy some paint :)

FogOfWar_XXX · April 24, 2015

Joining the enemy team because your team is being beaten up? That's something I wouldn't dare think about. I know it's a problem with a bunch of teammates who don't cooperate, but I'd rather go down fighting than betray the few of my teammates who are actually putting up a fight

Respect man.

Thats the spirit.

Even if You did not win - You knwo that You are in the right club...

RESPEKT MAN

Damn skippy, go down fighting. Hats off to the two of you. I WILL say this though, at the end of a round, if after two of being on the same team and getting smashed, when score comes up, I'll sometime pop out and join the other team, especially if I ranked high on the losing team, no point in earning so little when you are killing it. That said, yeah, hate team jumpers mid game, they b**w dead rats.

FogOfWar_XXX · April 24, 2015

Well there needs to be a loud response from all Shaft enthusiasts that this is unacceptable and we won't put up with it.

Would anyone support a petition by Shaft users not to purchase a single Dollar or Pound or Euro on Tanki until this is fixed or all Shaft users/owners are compensated?

You know, I'd normally say that this is a HUGE waste of time, but maybe IT WOULD be an intersting experiment, to have all shaft players post up their tanks, with their names, from Garage or something, and then select from a list of complaints we have, and see how many people are shafters with complaints and then direct those results to the staff. I wouldn't expect too much from this, but they claim they listen to players, and it would be intersting to get an idea of how many players are hardcore shafters, it might put a point on how big we are in the community.

kayitsiz · April 24, 2015

You know, I'd normally say that this is a HUGE waste of time, but maybe IT WOULD be an intersting experiment, to have all shaft players post up their tanks, with their names, from Garage or something, and then select from a list of complaints we have, and see how many people are shafters with complaints and then direct those results to the staff. I wouldn't expect too much from this, but they claim they listen to players, and it would be intersting to get an idea of how many players are hardcore shafters, it might put a point on how big we are in the community.

I can directly say some names...

FogOfWar_XXX · April 24, 2015

So, I looked at the spreadsheet.

Where do I begin?

I played last night, first time since the update. I'm tired, so very, very, very tired of havingto readjust constantly.

Alas, let us begin shall we?

Shaft Modification Min damage Max damage Min sniping damage Energy per shot Reloading (msec) Turret rotation speed Before Now Before Now Before Now Before Now Before Now Before Now M0 20.4118 30.8235 27.8235 37.5294 24.1176 34.1765 398.2941 457.3059 3382.353 3882.353 0.8529 0.9294 M1 24.6765 36.8529 33.8529 44.4412 29.2647 40.6471 386.0368 445.9382 3235.294 3735.294 1.0441 1.0912 M2 33.2059 48.9118 45.9118 58.2647 39.5588 53.5882 361.5221 423.2029 2941.177 3441.177 1.4265 1.4147 M3 36.6176 53.7353 50.7353 63.7941 43.6765 58.7647 351.7162 414.1088 2823.529 3323.529 1.5794 1.5441 M3+ 46 67 64 79 55 73 324.75 389.1 2500 3000 2 1.9

Actually, the more I think about it, I'll do this offline and then post it all, we're gonna have some REAL fun taking this apart.

Stay tuned.

I can directly say some names...

Well, if Britanny there is feeling up to the challange of collecting and organizing all this, maybe we could start the list.

kayitsiz · April 24, 2015

So, I looked at the spreadsheet.

Where do I begin?

I played last night, first time since the update. I'm tired, so very, very, very tired of havingto readjust constantly.

Alas, let us begin shall we?

Shaft Modification Min damage Max damage Min sniping damage Energy per shot Reloading (msec) Turret rotation speed Before Now Before Now Before Now Before Now Before Now Before Now M0 20.4118 30.8235 27.8235 37.5294 24.1176 34.1765 398.2941 457.3059 3382.353 3882.353 0.8529 0.9294 M1 24.6765 36.8529 33.8529 44.4412 29.2647 40.6471 386.0368 445.9382 3235.294 3735.294 1.0441 1.0912 M2 33.2059 48.9118 45.9118 58.2647 39.5588 53.5882 361.5221 423.2029 2941.177 3441.177 1.4265 1.4147 M3 36.6176 53.7353 50.7353 63.7941 43.6765 58.7647 351.7162 414.1088 2823.529 3323.529 1.5794 1.5441 M3+ 46 67 64 79 55 73 324.75 389.1 2500 3000 2 1.9

Actually, the more I think about it, I'll do this offline and then post it all, we're gonna have some REAL fun taking this apart.

Stay tuned.

Well, if Britanny there is feeling up to the challange of collecting and organizing all this, maybe we could start the list.

We can make a list from the forum. Also, I can take a screenshot from the game when I see another shafter.

FogOfWar_XXX · April 24, 2015

Doh

kayitsiz · April 24, 2015

Doh

What is doh!? Today I haven't seen a shafter except me. We are the rarest group

Loackie · April 24, 2015

Man all sniper use laser - to show his possition :) hahahahahahhaa

it is tactical correct - hello hello I am here

I just shot in this place, pleace join :) hahahahahahahah

This is like taking friz option from friz.

Smokey with no critical damage.

Thunder with no mass damage.

Isyda which only kil tanks. No self healing.

It is the same.

Secret position is the most important thing about shaft.

Sniper as soon as he is finded out where he is - is dead.

His only weapon is stay in the dark and hit in right time.

No enough fire power to fight in other way.

GO to soldiers and told them that with sniper function

- u start a disco on the hill

- smoke fire to make more light

- use special smoke gase to whow your possition with laser pointer

- show excatly where You will shot hahahahahahahhahahahahahaah

THe biggest shaft assault mode is that You cant get from where You were kiled.

How where how.

You are just dead.

All.

You have to analyze the in out bullet way to recognize shot points.

When You got some skils on map it is easy to recogize where shaft is.

I had no problem with it on a map.

It was clearly understudable.

Now it is soooooooooooo rubish.

Give everyone soke power with no criticl damage.

All weapon the same work.

it like it - yes - it is caled balance :)

The laser defeats its own purpose, it was meant to fight campers. Guess what? Campers can just sit in a corridor on Monte Carlo and win while DUI. You at least had to be sober to camp with shaft pre-nerf. Plus, SHAFT IS A SUPPORT TURRET IN THIS GAME. Shaft is one of the two turrets in this game with unlimited range, and has a very high damage to boot, unlike Railgun. With good placement, it can be hard to be punished, unlike a railgun, from long range, as you can see stuff others cannot see. Instead of focusing on the weaknesses of your turret/s, focus on the strengths?

FogOfWar_XXX · April 24, 2015

References In The Fog

Mod    Min damage
       Before     Delta      Now
M0     20.4118    10.4117    30.8235
M1     24.6765    12.1764    36.8529
M2     33.2059    15.7059    48.9118
M3     36.6176    17.1177    53.7353
M3+    46.0000    21.0000    67.0000

Mod   Max damage
       Before   Delta      Now
M0   27.8235    09.7059   37.5294
M1   33.8529   10.5883   44.4412
M2   45.9118   12.3529   58.2647
M3   50.7353   13.0588   63.7941
M3+   64.0000   15.0000   79.0000

Mod   Reloading (msec)
       Before     Delta      Now
M0   3382.3529 500.0000   3882.3529
M1   3235.2941 500.0000   3735.2941
M2   2941.1765 500.0000   3441.1765
M3   2823.5294 500.0000   3323.5294
M3+   2500.0000 500.0000   3000.0000

Mod   Turret rotation speed
       Before   Delta      Now
M0   0.8529   0.0765   0.9294
M1   1.0441   0.0471   1.0912
M2    1.4265   -0.0118   1.4147
M3   1.5794   -0.0353   1.5441
M3+    2.0000   -0.1000   1.9000

This is for reference as I look at this ugrade and what it means.

Strawwitz · April 24, 2015

Yes m shaft got a good increase in arcade damage, and also minimum sniping damage

As to the laser , without it, shaft would be way overpowered and there would be too many amateur campers using it on too many maps.

There are many ways to hide your laser, if you are any good or learn how.

The increased reload really hurt, don't go duking it out with railguns , ;)

Edited April 24, 2015 by Strawwitz

FogOfWar_XXX · April 24, 2015

Okay, SO, lets be clear, the true standard is ROF and damage for any baseline.

They said they increased arcade, let's have look shall we?

    Damage Per Shot   ROF          #Shots   TIME   TOT. DAMAGE
NEW 30.8235            3.8823529   3         11.6471 92.4705
OLD 20.4118            3.3823529   3         10.1471 61.2354

NEW 30.8235            3.8823529   2       07.7647 61.6470
OLD 20.4118            3.3823529   2       06.7647 40.8236

By those standards above, we are loosely near a thirty percent increase in damage for 2 consequtive shots and 3 consecqutive shots. Not too shabby, BUT, there is a problem here, that rate of fire is slower now. Now lets to damage times shots vs our old favorite, Smokey,

        Damage Per Shot   ROF       #Shots TIME   TOTAL DAMAGE
Smokey 18.0000           2.0000   2      4.0000 36.0000
Shaft   30.8235           3.8824   2      7.7647 61.6470

So round per round we are CRUSHING the competition, but lets get back to reality, damage over time, so since Shaft is slower, well do time based upon 3 shots from a Shaft:

        Damage Per Shot   ROF   Time       #SHOTS   TOTAL DAMAGE
Smokey 18.0000           2.0000 11.6470587 5.0000   90.0000
Shaft   30.8235           3.8824 11.6470587 3.0000   92.4705

So there you have, A REAL and MEANINGFUL improvement on a Shaft's ability to survive in arcade mode. Now, few things to consider. Impact force forcing you to re-target will likely make you hard pressed maybe to land all those shots consecutively in that speed, and while we are comparing M0s, and rotation speed actually got better for this class and M1, M2 and M3 took a hit, so if they are shoot and scoot platforms that are bobbing back and forth, you ability to turn and shoot is compromised. All that said though, for once, WE are on the up and up. Please note though, after three shots, we are again in the original world of diminshing returns and the tables turn, we are now dishing out less damage per sec than the opponent. Moral of this story, take advantage of the arcade boost, make use of it, AND LEARN HOW TO HIT IN ARCADE MODE.

This is a bizarre situation we find ourselves in as Shafters, because now we have increased damage, but reduced ROF. It is more important now, more than ever, to really land shots on target, arcade or other wise. I didn't include it, but the energy requirements for shots has also gone up, thus timing is everything now. In the heat of battle though, timing energy is simply not realistic, so you'll have to learn to gauge that by instinct.

Increased reload times and increased energy minimums though ultimately translate into less shooting. We will put down less volume in a match now more than ever, and the energy requirement means we will now have to deal with better arcade, but if we're spent, we're spent. This will translate into fewer kills except for those who can really drop hits EVERY SINGLE shot, and even then, I think we'll see lower kill counts now for Shafts, which btw, seems to me like another subtle way of burying it against other turrets and have players abandon it, as scores lower and earnings drop. This will really become the rarer of the weapons as newer people start playing and we're likely to see less Shafters really formalize and dedicate on this platform.

Good news is that if you ARE base defending, chasing down the pecker head that just took a hit from you and is running away will be hard pressed to withstand your chase with these damage levels in arcade. Word to the wise though Shafter's, few of you ever DO GIVE CHASE, so know runners will drop mines, FYI, just saying.

Increased Min Scope Damage was also omitted from my list, really, if we're talking Shaft, we talk in terms of scope and it's damage as maxed, no one ever plays with it with the intention of constantly half powering a shot. The point is one shot, one kill, so it's there, but not exactly overly important to the grand scheme of things.

Anyone else got two cents on the numbers?

Edited April 24, 2015 by FogOfWar_XXX

Loackie · April 24, 2015

Okay, SO, lets be clear, the true standard is ROF and damage for any baseline.

They said they increased arcade, let's have look shall we?

    Damage Per Shot   ROF          #Shots   TIME   TOT. DAMAGE

NEW 30.8235            3.8823529   3         11.6471 92.4705

OLD 20.4118            3.3823529   3         10.1471 61.2354



NEW 30.8235            3.8823529   2       07.7647 61.6470

OLD 20.4118            3.3823529   2       06.7647 40.8236

By those standards above, we are loosely near a thirty percent increase in damage for 2 consequtive shots and 3 consecqutive shots. Not too shabby, BUT, there is a problem here, that rate of fire is slower now.   Now lets to damage times shots vs our old favorite, Smokey,

        Damage Per Shot   ROF       #Shots TIME   TOTAL DAMAGE

Smokey 18.0000           2.0000   2      4.0000 36.0000

Shaft   30.8235           3.8824   2      7.7647 61.6470

So round per round we are CRUSHING the competition, but lets get back to reality, damage over time, so since Shaft is slower, well do time based upon 3 shots from a Shaft:

        Damage Per Shot   ROF   Time       #SHOTS   TOTAL DAMAGE

Smokey 18.0000           2.0000 11.6470587 5.0000   90.0000

Shaft   30.8235           3.8824 11.6470587 3.0000   92.4705

So there you have, A REAL and MEANINGFUL improvement on a Shaft's ability to survive in arcade mode. Now, few things to consider. Impact force forcing you to re-target will likely make you hard pressed maybe to land all those shots consecutively in that speed, and while we are comparing M0s, and rotation speed actually got better for this class and M1, M2 and M3 took a hit, so if they are shoot and scoot platforms that are bobbing back and forth, you ability to turn and shoot is compromised. All that said though, for once, WE are on the up and up. Please note though, after three shots, we are again in the original world of diminshing returns and the tables turn, we are now dishing out less damage per sec than the opponent. Moral of this story, take advantage of the arcade boost, make use of it, AND LEARN HOW TO HIT IN ARCADE MODE.

This is a bizarre situation we find ourselves in as Shafters, because now we have increased damage, but reduced ROF. It is more important now, more than ever, to really land shots on target, arcade or other wise. I didn't include it, but the energy requirements for shots has also gone up, thus timing is everything now. In the heat of battle though, timing energy is simply not realistic, so you'll have to learn to gauge that by instinct.

Increased reload times and increased energy minimums though ultimately translate into less shooting. We will put down less volume in a match now more than ever, and the energy requirement means we will now have to deal with better arcade, but if we're spent, we're spent. This will translate into fewer kills except for those who can really drop hits EVERY SINGLE shot, and even then, I think we'll see lower kill counts now for Shafts, which btw, seems to me like another subtle way of burying it against other turrets and have players abandon it, as scores lower and earnings drop. This will really become the rarer of the weapons as newer people start playing and we're likely to see less Shafters really formalize and dedicate on this platform.

Good news is that if you ARE base defending, chasing down the pecker head that just took a hit from you and is running away will be hard pressed to withstand your chase with these damage levels in arcade. Word to the wise though Shafter's, few of you ever DO GIVE CHASE, so know runners will drop mines, FYI, just saying.

Increased Min Scope Damage was also omitted from my list, really, if we're talking Shaft, we talk in terms of scope and it's damage as maxed, no one ever plays with it with the intention of constantly half powering a shot. The point is one shot, one kill, so it's there, but not exactly overly important to the grand scheme of things.

Anyone else got two cents on the numbers?

Wow, you're a levelheaded member of the community and actually knows how to maths. This is new, that rivals some logic from gismos

FogOfWar_XXX · April 24, 2015

Wow, you're a levelheaded member of the community and actually knows how to maths. This is new, that rivals some logic from gismos

Well, I'll gladly accept the compliment and as recognition of this kindness bestowed upon me, I shall refrain from aggregating from everyones favorite playlist today.

What gismo do you speak of btw, I'm a little unsure where to find this "gismo", or was or is a player that I ahve yet to come across then?

USA-POWER · April 24, 2015

Thats what i was saying under the rebalance discussion by Semyon, shaft is not a sniper anymore

Loackie · April 25, 2015

Well, I'll gladly accept the compliment and as recognition of this kindness bestowed upon me, I shall refrain from aggregating from everyones favorite playlist today.

What gismo do you speak of btw, I'm a little unsure where to find this "gismo", or was or is a player that I ahve yet to come across then?

Three types of Generalissimos (gismos or gissimos for short) on this forum:

1) The active community helpers and overachievers

2) normal people why try to be grateful, some of which have a job and are older than 20

3) the ones you lol at because their logic is silly

Edited April 25, 2015 by Loackie

I3rilliant · April 25, 2015

^ That applies to almost every rank; particularly the third one.

marcoagf · April 26, 2015

I playing with Shaft this week

There was no further problems

Facebook vídeo: https://www.facebook.com/marco.martim.3/videos/979285765415900/

USA-POWER · April 26, 2015

Yes but on the otherhand, i think developers found no other choice than to increase the arcade's damage, because most of the maps are not good for sniping, they are small, until the release of the unity player that has turned into a dream, then there will be some better maps for sniping , at that time shaft may be of use again ..

Yes i know there are a lot of big maps recently but few players are usually there ..

However they could solve the problem by increasing its aim speed, instead of decreasing it .. so obviously they wanted to turn shaft into an ordinary weapon and not a sniper ..

But i am more than sure that they are going to bring back shaft to its glory .. because Russians love snipers, there were many famous Russian snipers at the world wars

Edited April 26, 2015 by USA-POWER

Hayagriva · April 26, 2015

The laser defeats its own purpose, it was meant to fight campers. Guess what? Campers can just sit in a corridor on Monte Carlo and win while DUI. You at least had to be sober to camp with shaft pre-nerf. Plus, SHAFT IS A SUPPORT TURRET IN THIS GAME. Shaft is one of the two turrets in this game with unlimited range, and has a very high damage to boot, unlike Railgun. With good placement, it can be hard to be punished, unlike a railgun, from long range, as you can see stuff others cannot see. Instead of focusing on the weaknesses of your turret/s, focus on the strengths?

Long ranke and a light + syrena - I am here...

Hayagriva · April 26, 2015

Yes but on the otherhand, i think developers found no other choice than to increase the arcade's damage, because most of the maps are not good for sniping, they are small, until the release of the unity player that has turned into a dream, then there will be some better maps for sniping , at that time shaft may be of use again ..

Yes i know there are a lot of big maps recently but few players are usually there ..

However they could solve the problem by increasing its aim speed, instead of decreasing it .. so obviously they wanted to turn shaft into an ordinary weapon and not a sniper ..

But i am more than sure that they are going to bring back shaft to its glory .. because Russians love snipers, there were many famous Russian snipers at the world wars

Yes

"because most of the maps are not good for sniping"

Not enough cover of shaft and he is usless.

"until the release of the unity player that has turned into a dream"

Meaby it will be as Duke Nuken - ahhahahaha

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooong waiting and Noooooooooooooooooooooootthing

We ar in half of a Year, and there is no upgraded tanki version.

That was annonced for begining of 2015 man.

"Russians love snipers, there were many famous Russian snipers at the world wars"

Lots of nazi huners...

Hayagriva · April 26, 2015

I playing with Shaft this week

There was no further problems

Facebook vídeo: https://www.facebook.com/marco.martim.3/videos/979285765415900/

Man I played too.

Aiming and turning speed is terrible.

Hayagriva · April 26, 2015

For shaft passioniats :)

USA-POWER · April 26, 2015

For shaft passioniats :)

was exactly what i was thinking about !

Edited April 27, 2015 by USA-POWER

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