Let's Discuss Shaft!

[Desty 275]

I have never tried playing wave/island with shaft - I doubt this will be as easy as others. Not sure if angle is enough in wave for shooting properly. Yet I don't see why would supplies on island 1 vs 1 against titan/twins would be hard - just keep driving camera up and shoot w arcade and use supplies according to enemy supplies usage - run and shoot. Of course, 50 prot would change everything. Isn't how these 1 vs 1 nowadays go? Keep changing 50% protections accordingly opponent's turret?

 

I give you that, not any map. I ment most played bigger maps 10+.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Ibe reason shaft is powerful is because there are a lot of maps that almost seem custom-designed for Shaft. I basically never play Lost Temple for this reason. Almost all the other maps have strong shaft overlook locations.  

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I have never tried playing wave/island with shaft - I doubt this will be as easy as others. Not sure if angle is enough in wave for shooting properly. Yet I don't see why would supplies on island 1 vs 1 against titan/twins would be hard - just keep driving camera up and shoot w arcade and use supplies according to enemy supplies usage - run and shoot. Of course, 50 prot would change everything. Isn't how these 1 vs 1 nowadays go? Keep changing 50% protections accordingly opponent's turret?

 

I give you that, not any map. I ment most played bigger maps 10+.

Really? Change "hard" to impossible.  Twins has such a higher dpm and you would die faster than you could reload a second shot, not to mention the delay as you try to make sure your aim is on-target    I suggest you run a simulation of this using turret and hull stats.

 

Even most 1 v 1s involving a Shaft on ANY map result in a loss for the Shaft.  The reason is that Shafts rely on their team for protection.  They allow their teammates to engage you first, making approaching them virtually impossible.

So if you play 1 v 1 with a shaft against equal level equipment, you will always win unless you have a short-range turret.  It can only point its turret in one direction.  It has to aim and steady to hit you, and does not have good vision while doing so.  If you find yourself unable to beat a Shaft in 1 v 1 on a medium-sized map, you don't have a good understanding a strategy and cover.  Most times if you can find it you will win.

Fighting Shafts is all about strategy. Don't keep approaching from the same route and/or side.  Following this simple advice will enable you to avoid being hit most of the time. That's why good clans use Shafts to "shut off" portions of that map rather than for kills, because they aren't actually that effective for the latter.

 

Against good opponents in a normal battle it's hard for a Shaft to maintain a 2 k/d.  As soon as they scope in everyone hides from their laser.  Then as soon as they move it, somebody seizes his chance, peeks out, and fires.    It's all about quick-scoping.

Edited November 1, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Really? Change "hard" to impossible.  Twins has such a higher dpm and you would die faster than you could reload a second shot, not to mention the delay as you try to make sure your aim is on-target    I suggest you run a simulation of this using turret and hull stats.

 

Even most 1 v 1s involving a Shaft on ANY map result in a loss for the Shaft.  The reason is that Shafts rely on their team for protection.  They allow their teammates to engage you first, making approaching them virtually impossible.

So if you play 1 v 1 with a shaft against equal level equipment, you will always win unless you have a short-range turret.  It can only point its turret in one direction.  It has to aim and steady to hit you, and does not have good vision while doing so.  If you find yourself unable to beat a Shaft in 1 v 1 on a medium-sized map, you don't have a good understanding a strategy and cover.  Most times if you can find it you will win.

Fighting Shafts is all about strategy. Don't keep approaching from the same route and/or side.  Following this simple advice will enable you to avoid being hit most of the time. That's why good clans use Shafts to "shut off" portions of that map rather than for kills, because they aren't actually that effective for the latter.

 

Against good opponents in a normal battle it's hard for a Shaft to maintain a 2 k/d.  As soon as they scope in everyone hides from their laser.  Then as soon as they move it, somebody seizes his chance, peeks out, and fires.    It's all about quick-scoping.

Amen.  People just DON'T understand Shaft, or few.  Shaft is not about parity to other hulls.  Now, if you really want to be a shaft players, LEARN TO ARCADE shot with a Shaft.  Your comment about visibility is so true too.  Most shafts, try as they might, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE GOOD, have to decide, scope where you THINK the target is headed, or arcade loiter and hope you catch a glimpse of the target still far enough away to predict the path and set up for it.  If you get caught though, scoping and firing is a tough sell.  Quick scope is nice, but it's never enough to trash equal equipment, and dpm being what it is, if they're educated, they won't shy away, they know the following shots will will be in they're favor, so if they get the first shot in, you're dead meat.

 

Take this as me seconding the whole 1v1 thing, sure, sometimes you can win, but that's like 1 in 20 games, and not against anyone who understands the techinical aspects, like you said, run a simulation and boom, the numbers don't lie.

[Desty 275]

Really? Change "hard" to impossible.  Twins has such a higher dpm and you would die faster than you could reload a second shot, not to mention the delay as you try to make sure your aim is on-target    I suggest you run a simulation of this using turret and hull stats.

 

Even most 1 v 1s involving a Shaft on ANY map result in a loss for the Shaft.  The reason is that Shafts rely on their team for protection.  They allow their teammates to engage you first, making approaching them virtually impossible.

So if you play 1 v 1 with a shaft against equal level equipment, you will always win unless you have a short-range turret.  It can only point its turret in one direction.  It has to aim and steady to hit you, and does not have good vision while doing so.  If you find yourself unable to beat a Shaft in 1 v 1 on a medium-sized map, you don't have a good understanding a strategy and cover.  Most times if you can find it you will win.

Fighting Shafts is all about strategy. Don't keep approaching from the same route and/or side.  Following this simple advice will enable you to avoid being hit most of the time. That's why good clans use Shafts to "shut off" portions of that map rather than for kills, because they aren't actually that effective for the latter.

 

Against good opponents in a normal battle it's hard for a Shaft to maintain a 2 k/d.  As soon as they scope in everyone hides from their laser.  Then as soon as they move it, somebody seizes his chance, peeks out, and fires.    It's all about quick-scoping.

 

 

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=363664

 

I knew you weren't gone!

 

I agree with everything you said. Only reason I posted that, was to give you something juicy to argue and prove that you are not gone.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Desty

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Really? Change "hard" to impossible.  Twins has such a higher dpm and you would die faster than you could reload a second shot, not to mention the delay as you try to make sure your aim is on-target    I suggest you run a simulation of this using turret and hull stats.

 

Even most 1 v 1s involving a Shaft on ANY map result in a loss for the Shaft.  The reason is that Shafts rely on their team for protection.  They allow their teammates to engage you first, making approaching them virtually impossible.

So if you play 1 v 1 with a shaft against equal level equipment, you will always win unless you have a short-range turret.  It can only point its turret in one direction.  It has to aim and steady to hit you, and does not have good vision while doing so.  If you find yourself unable to beat a Shaft in 1 v 1 on a medium-sized map, you don't have a good understanding a strategy and cover.  Most times if you can find it you will win.

Fighting Shafts is all about strategy. Don't keep approaching from the same route and/or side.  Following this simple advice will enable you to avoid being hit most of the time. That's why good clans use Shafts to "shut off" portions of that map rather than for kills, because they aren't actually that effective for the latter.

 

Against good opponents in a normal battle it's hard for a Shaft to maintain a 2 k/d.  As soon as they scope in everyone hides from their laser.  Then as soon as they move it, somebody seizes his chance, peeks out, and fires.    It's all about quick-scoping.

yeah with heavy capacitors it takes double the time for the laser to appear, and they can still deal more than enough damage to kill any medium hull in with less than 30% protection in one shot when firing before the laser appears.

 

i don't know how good are your good clans but my clan uses me to target certain people and get kills.

 

and in big maps it usually doesn't matter if my team wins or loses 10-0 my k/d is usually above 5. at a highways generalissimo battle i got 44/0 on a losing team before.

 

i have never won against a drugging twins titan before, but in a no drug battle i have. twins has slow projectile speed so there is enouigh time to scope the side of his turret before any of his balls hit you. hit him to the left, run to the right and hit him to the left another time before he turns towards you, repeat until he dies; you're gonna take some hits too because those balls he already fired will still reach you after you knock him off but you'll damage him more than he damages you. of course, if the battle is at close range then turn off heavy capacitors and turn on assault emmiters.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

....

 

and in big maps it usually doesn't matter if my team wins or loses 10-0 my k/d is usually above 5. at a highways generalissimo battle i got 44/0 on a losing team before.

 

...

I don't know, every time I see Shafts I can usually kill them much more than they kill me.  Getting 44-0 requires an opposing team that has no idea how to counter a Shaft.  Of course, I'm speaking from a non-drugging perspective here, when I use Shaft M2.5

 

And well, Highways is Highways.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

I don't know, every time I see Shafts I can usually kill them much more than they kill me.  Getting 44-0 requires an opposing team that has no idea how to counter a Shaft.  Of course, I'm speaking from a non-drugging perspective here, when I use Shaft M2.5

 

And well, Highways is Highways.

it's easy to advoid getting attacked from around, simply back yourself against a wall or a corner or the edge of the map. in some places if you do that your enemy will be forced to attack you from the front. if they can't survive your fully charged scope then they can forget about it.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

it's easy to advoid getting attacked from around, simply back yourself against a wall or a corner or the edge of the map. in some places if you do that your enemy will be forced to attack you from the front. if they can't survive your fully charged scope then they can forget about it.

The maps are designed so that camping at the very edge of the map will not get you much kills- there is too much in the way.  As for camping close to the very edge of the map, people can still come in after you've shot and have to reload.

 

The point is, Shaft is a direct-fire weapon.  That means whenever it fires at you, you can see it and consequently it is exposed to fire as well.  That's why Shafts can't truly camp and kill, because they expose themselves whenever they try to get a kill.  And people tend to learn where the Shaft is and what he's guarding.

Only Magnum can truly camp in the very back, behind everything, and lob shots over.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

The maps are designed so that camping at the very edge of the map will not get you much kills- there is too much in the way.  As for camping close to the very edge of the map, people can still come in after you've shot and have to reload.

 

The point is, Shaft is a direct-fire weapon.  That means whenever it fires at you, you can see it and consequently it is exposed to fire as well.  That's why Shafts can't truly camp and kill, because they expose themselves whenever they try to get a kill.  And people tend to learn where the Shaft is and what he's guarding.

Only Magnum can truly camp in the very back, behind everything, and lob shots over.

not the case for kolhoz, massacre, tribute, skylark, highlands, sereprov etc. and you have enough time to plant mines rin front of you right beside the cover they'll be using when waiting for you to shoot someone else so you'll have to reload.

 

the only danger they are exposed to is enemy shafts, and it doesn't matter whether the enemy shaft is more MUed or druging, because all it has to do is shoot before he does and hide before he turns back.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

There are a subset of shaft players with very high k/d ratios. Itis possible for a shft user to find a very safe sniping spot and rackup the kills.  It simply happens. It is fact.

 

However these players do so because their goal is a high k/d ratio.  In TDM that is how points are scored. But in CTF or CP having such a Shaft on your team is not always a boon.  They have tunnel vision and by definition never help capture a CP or help battle into the flag.  Doing so would lead to the Shaft tank to blow up.  

 

When your goal is a high k/d ratio, then you must avoid every single destruction of your tank possible.

 

Therefore in the bottom line, these players are not as helpful to team play as thy could (or should?) be.  One on a team might be OK. But some games you will see half the team siting in one spot looking through their scope. 

 

Which is one of the many signals to leave and find a fun game instead. I'll not be their huckleberries.

Edited November 1, 2017 by LittleWillie

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

There are a subset of shaft players with very high k/d ratios. Itis possible for a shft user to find a very safe sniping spot and rackup the kills.  It simply happens. It is fact.

 

However these players do so because their goal is a high k/d ratio.  In TDM that is how points are scored. But in CTF or CP having such a Shaft on your team is not always a boon.  They have tunnel vision and by definition never help capture a CP or help battle into the flag.  Doing so would lead to the Shaft tank to blow up.  

 

When your goal is a high k/d ratio, then you must avoid every single destruction of your tank possible.

 

Therefore in the bottom line, these players are not as helpful to team play as thy could (or should?) be.  One on a team might be OK. But some games you will see half the team siting in one spot looking through their scope. 

 

Which is one of the many signals to leave and find a fun game instead. I'll not be their huckleberries.

at maps like kolhoz or skylark where there are safe spots where they can directly snipe at the enemy flag... any isida, firebird, freeze or hammer guarding the flag might as well just change to another turret or forget about guarding and attack instead.

 

usually when my clan faces too many close range defenders that's when they invite me. they'll even have one of those already in the battle to leave so i can take the place because at that time shaft is that important.

Edited November 1, 2017 by GuidoFawkes

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

at maps like kolhoz or skylark where there are safe spots where they can directly snipe at the enemy flag... any isida, firebird, freeze or hammer guarding the flag might as well just change to another turret or forget about guarding and attack instead.

Ridiculous.  Where the Shaft is close enough to line up shots on their flag railguns and thunders are close enough to line up shots on him.  They have the not-so-small advantage of being able to move while shoot and can easily take out the shaft if they're worth their salt.  

 

2. Yes, but close-range defenders should be hidden, not exposed.  You're telling me their defense has NO long-range snipers?

Edited November 1, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Ridiculous.  Where the Shaft is close enough to line up shots on their flag railguns and thunders are close enough to line up shots on him.  They have the not-so-small advantage of being able to move while shoot and can easily take out the shaft if they're worth their salt.  

 

2. Yes, but close-range defenders should be hidden, not exposed.  You're telling me their defense has NO long-range snipers?

close enough? it is always close enough to anywhere.

 

shaft manhandles all other long range snipers

Edited November 1, 2017 by GuidoFawkes

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

close enough? it is always close enough to anywhere.

 

shaft manhandles all other long range snipers

1. You need a certain distance to be able to "see" their flag.  Usually it's protected by buildings from line-of-sight.  

 

2.  This is simply not true.  A skilled railgun player can use their camera to look at where the Shaft is pointing, peek out when he's pointing in another direction (having warmed up behind cover) and land a shot before the Shaft can react.  Even if the Shaft is already turning and has seen him, the impact force of the railgun will knock him off aim.  

 

Shaft is a good sniper against unsuspecting targets- it's a true sniper.  You have to land shots on those who are traveling, not specifically targeting you.  Railgun is much better for actual sniper wars, although there's a certain level of skill required.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

1. You need a certain distance to be able to "see" their flag.  Usually it's protected by buildings from line-of-sight.  

 

2.  This is simply not true.  A skilled railgun player can use their camera to look at where the Shaft is pointing, peek out when he's pointing in another direction (having warmed up behind cover) and land a shot before the Shaft can react.  Even if the Shaft is already turning and has seen him, the impact force of the railgun will knock him off aim.  

 

Shaft is a good sniper against unsuspecting targets- it's a true sniper.  You have to land shots on those who are traveling, not specifically targeting you.  Railgun is much better for actual sniper wars, although there's a certain level of skill required.

1. not in kolhoz, skylark, massacre and a few other maps

 

2. that's not true from my 900+ hours of expierience

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

2. that's not true from my 900+ hours of expierience

With Shaft or with Rail?

 

Because if it's just/mainly with Shaft, then your experience is biased. You might simply be a good Shaft player, and easily able to kill most railguns, but if you play railgun, you might find yourself easily able to kill most Shafts, which are probably below you in skill.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

With Shaft or with Rail?

 

Because if it's just/mainly with Shaft, then your experience is biased. You might simply be a good Shaft player, and easily able to kill most railguns, but if you play railgun, you might find yourself easily able to kill most Shafts, which are probably below you in skill.

with shaft. yeah i could be biased, i admit.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

I bought assault emitter today, we'll see how it goes.  I'm not keen on having to wait EVEN longer on charging, BUT, 20% might be alright.  I tested it before I had to shut down today.  Polygon, WHICH I LOATHE playing on, and did "alright", IE, not trampled as badly, but still, not the place for a Shaft.  Hopefully I didn't waste 25K in crystals.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

I bought assault emitter today, we'll see how it goes.  I'm not keen on having to wait EVEN longer on charging, BUT, 20% might be alright.  I tested it before I had to shut down today.  Polygon, WHICH I LOATHE playing on, and did "alright", IE, not trampled as badly, but still, not the place for a Shaft.  Hopefully I didn't waste 25K in crystals.

you realize 20% longer reload means you interupt their repair later? so they heal more before you stop them from healing? if you only play no drug battles then it's okay, but if you don't...

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

you realize 20% longer reload means you interupt their repair later? so they heal more before you stop them from healing? if you only play no drug battles then it's okay, but if you don't...

Well, with overdrives on organized teams, calc'ing guess'timation of cool downs seems damn near impossible nowadays.  You carefully plan the run down after watching them come in lit up, all three, think they're burning their own overdrive, just to find out they use a heal up and you're like, "yep, this is it, screwed".  You thump them and give chase, they're all alone, running from you, and boom, overdrive, and I'm like "WT#C?".  All that work (and I don't drug, so it hurts more when my efforts are wasted) and I'm left holding a lot of hits with no kill, no flag return, and no K/D boost, it's maddening.  Like I said.  I was mildly curious, and it's 50% off, I had the crystals, said screw it, I'll give it a gander.  I can always shelve it if it's annoying me, which I suspect it will, heal time or not, I hate waiting as long as it does now for a full charge.  The only way I'm going to take a real shine to it is if I find my arcade fighting is suddenly in the three hit category for units I haven't already Shafted.  If I can "toe to toe" with a Hornet and generally win in three hits, I might take it.  I do mad moves to evade often and I'm still getting hits in, and sometimes it's taking me 5, sometimes 6, hits, if they have any dignity and fight, and not heal, before I can kill folks sometimes in an arcade battle, it's getting on my nerves.

[CKopocTb_3To_CTpacTb 14]

One noob shaft.

[theo1900 0]

With Shaft or with Rail?

 

Because if it's just/mainly with Shaft, then your experience is biased. You might simply be a good Shaft player, and easily able to kill most railguns, but if you play railgun, you might find yourself easily able to kill most Shafts, which are probably below you in skill.

Good point. The argument that railgun is easier than shaft is very interesting. I agree with it and of course it means that railgun is more OP than shaft, which also means that shaft needs more skill than railgun.

 

GuidoFawkes apparently belongs to a clan and enjoys protection from teamates. Fighting alone with shaft is much more difficault.

 

I do not mention that at my rank shaft is almost useless in comparison with railgun or thunder. One reason might be that M2 unlocks later than other weapons. In battles, I am unable to kill with one fully loaded sniping shot M2 hornets with my M1 shaft. I do not speak about arcades.

 

Shaft is the only weapon having no double kills (theoretically it has, but show me one who made it).

 

By the way, CKopocTb_3To_CTpacTb I saw your video and I like it but I found it unbeleivable. You used arcade shots in most cases and you kill. Playing the same style my shots leave enemies more or less untouchable. I guess you bought assault emitters or you have upgraded your weapon.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

GuidoFawkes apparently belongs to a clan and enjoys protection from teamates. Fighting alone with shaft is much more difficault.

 

you want protection when you're alone then get a mammoth, boy... you think i'd use mammoth if i'm always protected? It says in the description to pair it with heavy hulls.

 

 

[theo1900 0]

Dear GuidoFawkes,
Well, I know that the combo wasp-shaft seems weird. I use it lately because I want to practice shaft with light hulls. Usually, I play with hunter. Some players may disagree with you that shaft is only for heavy hulls. Anyway, we discuss about the weapon not the hull and I expected an answer to prove that something I said was wrong about the WEAPON. I did not ask protection but my life would be much easier if I could kill a hornet with 2-3 arcades and this has nothing to do with my hull. Now I can't do even this. What I said was that shaft is nerfed (at least at my rank).

A few words about protection. In team games many times I can't shoot the enemy shaft because a lot of close range players attack me before even find a place to shoot. I should congratulate this team of course for the good work but the fact is that they protect their shaft and this is good for them. Do you disagree?

A point about heavy hulls. I have learned that how heavy the hull is, matters little in a team battle. Everything is vulnerable with a appropriate concentration of fire. A good team does not afraid of a mamo. They will simply concentrate fire on it. I would not be more satisfied from my shaft, if I had combined it with titan. Since you checked my profile, you might see that there is a titan (M1 of course) available. It's my CHOICE to use light hulls because they offer mobility and some advantages I am not willing to loose. Defending yourself, you have to choose mobility or armor. I choose mobility, you choose armor. So simple.

One more notice about my playstyle. I want to help my team and protect my mates from long distances as they do for me (hopefully) from close ones. Being mobile needs no more than hunter or viking. I will never be the shaft who takes a good position goes on sniping mode and fell asleep until somebody passes from there. I will never be the player fighting in precisely the way other players hate in shaft no matter they are teamates or enemies. I do not say that you are such a player. I say that I have seen many of them.

Dear ThirdOnion,
You are right, I play with shaft M1 in M2 ranks but the shaft M2 unlocks in greater rank than mine while railguns are unlocked in a earlier and I guess this is not my fault.