Let's Discuss Shaft!

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

A question Shaft players.  I know it's in here somewhere, but it's hard to search and I was hoping someone just knew the number off the top of their heads.

How long is it to consume the full charge once entered into scope.  IE, enter scope, hold space, be fully charged.  It thought it was 2 seconds, regardless of class or upgrade, but I needed to be certain.  Does anyone remember the number?

Edited September 10, 2018 by FogOfWar_XXX

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

A question Shaft players.  I know it's in here somewhere, but it's hard to search and I was hoping someone just knew the number off the top of their heads.

How long is it to consume the full charge once entered into scope.  IE, enter scope, hold space, be fully charged.  It thought it was 2 seconds, regardless of class or upgrade, but I needed to be certain.  Does anyone remember the number?

I heard it was four seconds.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

A question Shaft players.  I know it's in here somewhere, but it's hard to search and I was hoping someone just knew the number off the top of their heads.

 

How long is it to consume the full charge once entered into scope.  IE, enter scope, hold space, be fully charged.  It thought it was 2 seconds, regardless of class or upgrade, but I needed to be certain.  Does anyone remember the number?

4 seconds

[enri_chill 265]

4 seconds

Unless you are using the heavy capacitors and then it is something like 6

A question Shaft players.  I know it's in here somewhere, but it's hard to search and I was hoping someone just knew the number off the top of their heads.

 

How long is it to consume the full charge once entered into scope.  IE, enter scope, hold space, be fully charged.  It thought it was 2 seconds, regardless of class or upgrade, but I needed to be certain.  Does anyone remember the number?

I usually don't get the joy of a full charge since sitting still that long is inviting death on many boards...

[enri_chill 265]

So the thing is, Shaft's scope mode is really really powerful (from my own experience and also that of my similar-ranked friends). So even though yes, Shaft is now limited to camping, it's so good at it that it's still really powerful. So something needs to be done about the OPness of the scope mode before any buff to arcade shots. 

The shaft is not OP however. Just look at over XP won with various turrets. I would wager that shaft is one of the lower XP/hr of play of most turrets. The highest are probably Thunder, Twins, Rico, Fire, Freeze, (and the pre-nerf Isida).  I love Thunder...I don't think it is OP either, but it cranks out damage quickly and endlessly. Sure the shaft can one shot light and medium hulls of comparable level, but that is sitting still for a lengthy period of time, with your laser, completely exposed to enemies that have a desire to eliminate you. 

 

On some boards shaft is great...like Highways, but it is also a load of fun on such a board to strap on shaft protection, a medium hull, and firebird, freeze or Isida and go hunting the shafts...they are pretty helpless for sure. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by enri_chill

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

So the thing is, Shaft's scope mode is really really powerful (from my own experience and also that of my similar-ranked friends). So even though yes, Shaft is now limited to camping, it's so good at it that it's still really powerful. So something needs to be done about the OPness of the scope mode before any buff to arcade shots. 

Scope mode is powerful, but it is so easy to counter. Shoot edges of the Shaft's hull. Flank. Attack while Shaft is distracted. Use your teammates as meat-shields. Most Shaft players suffer from terrible tunnel vision and have the reaction time of a sloth anyway. Perhaps at lower ranks, where players are still unfamiliar with game mechanics, Shaft can dominate. But past that it's not OP. You can only hold one corner at any given time.

Edited September 11, 2018 by ThirdOnion

[Desty 275]

UNNERF the shaft's arcade shot damage!

 

Shaft has only received nerfs past 3 years. Not even one buff, yet other turrets being nerfed and buffed all the time. This is only turret I and many other solo players enjoy playing and not playing as a camper. Shaft is absolutely useless currently as a midfielder or attacker. There are barely any shafters playing at max ranks currently, I think I saw X-O playing with viking/shaft the other day, but he changed his gear quickly due to lack of damage. Or if they are playing, they are camping and usually last places with their score.

 

I am fully aware it got nerfed due to clans complaining that their isidas getting sniped and killed. 

 

Why is tanki only caring about clans feedback? Solo playing is hard at it is, why take away only turret that can destroy those clan combo packages - twins, freeze, isida. 

 

Merge this mods.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Desty

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

I am fully aware it got nerfed due to clans complaining that their isidas getting sniped and killed. 

 

Why is tanki only caring about clans feedback? Solo playing is hard at it is, why take away only turret that can destroy those clan combo packages - twins, freeze, isida.

but they only nerfed the arcade and not the scope... you can stiill snipe them just as well as before..

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

I am fully aware it got nerfed due to clans complaining that their isidas getting sniped and killed. 

 

Why is tanki only caring about clans feedback? Solo playing is hard at it is, why take away only turret that can destroy those clan combo packages - twins, freeze, isida.

THIS is really well put.  Clans fight between themselves for "fame and glory", and fine, if Tanki teams and lots of time spent dong team play is your thing, all for it, it's impressive.  THAT said, again, Izzie trains do not make for good or fun games, and especially when it's in freeplay and not Clan Battle situations.  Shaft was made for THIS VERY REASON.  I shut down Izzies all the time, on purpose.  If I see a flag carrier followed by izzies running from my base, I start in on the izzies, not the carrier.  I'll let let the interceptors beat up the runner once his support is cleared away.  It's very much appreciated mind you, in the moment at least.  It only lasts til that player is opposing you next round.

 

What I can't figured out is why Clans don't have one or two Shafts of their own on teams that could capitalize on Shafts obvious function, rather than complaining about them.  Why are Clans so adamantly against Shafts?  They might actually benefit from a good Shaft or two on their team that can kill off those pesky hardcore runners and the support trailing them.  Hell, really good Shafts (not pointing a finger at myself mind you) see the izzie train from a mile away and start forcing them to use drugs long before the arrival of the flag runner so they can be picked off once my flag is in the wind because they have smart cool downs to deal with.  Interceptors chase, pound the izzes, I finish them, and them flag runner is not only in the wind, but so is their junk.   Not a perfect plan, now that overdrive exists, but, it works immensely at reducing the izzie train effect, especially if your teammates so you softening up izzies and go after the ones you thump.

 

In rare form, I shall take page from the whiners and give them a dose of their own medicine.

 

"I want izzie trains abolished, they're OP.  They run around the map and can't be killed, and if they drug and use overdrive, it's impossible to kill them nearly.  They need a nerf.  Just because clans like their izzies trains, doesn't mean the rest of us have to deal with it.  Something needs to be done, it's just not fair."

 

Legend:

Orange = Say with disdain like a rich kid would over something stupid.

Red = Say it in high pitch whiny baby crying type voice.

 

Point is, that sounds as dumb as the argument against Shafts. 

 

Clans whining about their precious little izzies is again ridiculous and why these conversations exist, and why this problem continues to be discussed, 3 years after I started playing this game.  It's absolute foolishness and simply poorly executed management of the game.  Cow towing to a segment of the population that in actuality COULD use the unit to their advantage, but for whatever reason doesn't want to for some reason is again the stick in the pot stirring the trouble.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

THIS is really well put.  Clans fight between themselves for "fame and glory", and fine, if Tanki teams and lots of time spent dong team play is your thing, all for it, it's impressive.  THAT said, again, Izzie trains do not make for good or fun games, and especially when it's in freeplay and not Clan Battle situations.  Shaft was made for THIS VERY REASON.  I shut down Izzies all the time, on purpose.  If I see a flag carrier followed by izzies running from my base, I start in on the izzies, not the carrier.  I'll let let the interceptors beat up the runner once his support is cleared away.  It's very much appreciated mind you, in the moment at least.  It only lasts til that player is opposing you next round.

 

What I can't figured out is why Clans don't have one or two Shafts of their own on teams that could capitalize on Shafts obvious function, rather than complaining about them.  Why are Clans so adamantly against Shafts?  They might actually benefit from a good Shaft or two on their team that can kill off those pesky hardcore runners and the support trailing them.  Hell, really good Shafts (not pointing a finger at myself mind you) see the izzie train from a mile away and start forcing them to use drugs long before the arrival of the flag runner so they can be picked off once my flag is in the wind because they have smart cool downs to deal with.  Interceptors chase, pound the izzes, I finish them, and them flag runner is not only in the wind, but so is their junk.   Not a perfect plan, now that overdrive exists, but, it works immensely at reducing the izzie train effect, especially if your teammates so you softening up izzies and go after the ones you thump.

 

In rare form, I shall take page from the whiners and give them a dose of their own medicine.

 

"I want izzie trains abolished, they're OP.  They run around the map and can't be killed, and if they drug and use overdrive, it's impossible to kill them nearly.  They need a nerf.  Just because clans like their izzies trains, doesn't mean the rest of us have to deal with it.  Something needs to be done, it's just not fair."

 

Legend:

Orange = Say with disdain like a rich kid would over something stupid.

Red = Say it in high pitch whiny baby crying type voice.

 

Point is, that sounds as dumb as the argument against Shafts. 

 

Clans whining about their precious little izzies is again ridiculous and why these conversations exist, and why this problem continues to be discussed, 3 years after I started playing this game.  It's absolute foolishness and simply poorly executed management of the game.  Cow towing to a segment of the population that in actuality COULD use the unit to their advantage, but for whatever reason doesn't want to for some reason is again the stick in the pot stirring the trouble.

I am a shaft and I am the shaft of the clan I am in.

 

actually a lot of esports clans do have shaft, (I see @Dynamite using it in esports)

 

 

but a lot of casual clan don't probably because... you need to be a lot more organized to coordinate with some guy supporting you from afar as compared to just getting some guys to drug up and ram for the flag together.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

I am a shaft and I am the shaft of the clan I am in.

 

actually a lot of esports clans do have shaft, (I see @Dynamite using it in esports)

 

 

but a lot of casual clan don't probably because... you need to be a lot more organized to coordinate with some guy supporting you from afar as compared to just getting some guys to drug up and ram for the flag together.

Point taken.  This this begs the question then, do casual clans hold that much sway?  Play your crystal, "get your CLAN on", and that's it, you suddenly have joined the Federation Of Players That Hold Sway?  If some clans use it, at the higher levels of play, as you indicate, then what happened?  Why didn't anyone come and speak up for you and Dynamite and the other Clan Shafters?

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Point taken.  This this begs the question then, do casual clans hold that much sway?  Play your crystal, "get your CLAN on", and that's it, you suddenly have joined the Federation Of Players That Hold Sway?  If some clans use it, at the higher levels of play, as you indicate, then what happened?  Why didn't anyone come and speak up for you and Dynamite and the other Clan Shafters?

wat

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

wat

I mean why didn't other clans argue back against the clans that were all up in arms about shaft being too much?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I feel like the strategy of quick sniping has been nerfed.

[splitterpoint 10,986]

I feel like the strategy of quick sniping has been nerfed.

That's an understatement lol,

Get ready to waste a massive amount of time and DPS.

[Longcat970 119]

Wow, I barely recognize this turret anymore from the pre-2014-ish period. Gameplay seems to have become more dynamic but less tactical with the lean toward CQC. I feel like Alternativa (or if I remember more precisely, Hazel) is trying really, really hard to turn this game into something unnecessarily fast-paced like CS:GO, but, well, the results speak for themselves.

 

As for the newest "balance" changes for Shaft... might as well keep an open mind and test the changes before bickering on the forums like 95% of the community.

 

IMO, the sniping reload nerf doesn't seem so bad when you get to pelt stragglers with arcade shots on par with Smoky afterward. Overall recharge bonus seems to help a bit too, but we'll see in the next 3 hrs.

 

Since the debut of Rail and Hornet XT in 2015 I've wanted to see a Shaft XT come out. 3 years later, and honestly I'm a bit underwhelmed with the design... Fingers crossed that Shaft LGC will come out sooner than late 2019.

 

Also, the new alteration set better bring back penetration for Shaft for those glorious quad-kills of yore ;)

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Wow, I barely recognize this turret anymore from the pre-2014-ish period. Gameplay seems to have become more dynamic but less tactical with the lean toward CQC. I feel like Alternativa (or if I remember more precisely, Hazel) is trying really, really hard to turn this game into something unnecessarily fast-paced like CS:GO, but, well, the results speak for themselves.

 

As for the newest "balance" changes for Shaft... might as well keep an open mind and test the changes before bickering on the forums like 95% of the community.

 

IMO, the sniping reload nerf doesn't seem so bad when you get to pelt stragglers with arcade shots on par with Smoky afterward. Overall recharge bonus seems to help a bit too, but we'll see in the next 3 hrs.

 

Since the debut of Rail and Hornet XT in 2015 I've wanted to see a Shaft XT come out. 3 years later, and honestly I'm a bit underwhelmed with the design... Fingers crossed that Shaft LGC will come out sooner than late 2019.

 

Also, the new alteration set better bring back penetration for Shaft for those glorious quad-kills of yore ;)

Agreed. While suspicious in terms of the overall rate of fire and some of the affects of tactical use of "quick shots", yeah, only time will tell how this one pans out.  The increase in reload might make it worth the jump in damage.  Still gonna hurt though when you barely charge a shot and then decide you have to relocate to take it on far.  I see camping MORE necessary with the charge being sucked down no matter what, so I really, REALLY, don't understand their logic now.

 

But, cooler heads prevail, yeah, lets see what happens (for the record, that min damage increase, if you read the patch fully, is not THAT impressive).

[Longcat970 119]

I did a bit of mathcraft with the old and new Shaft arcade reload shots because why not.

 

 

An interesting find:

Arcade energy depletion remains constant before and after patch (-250 stock, -300 M1 alt), meaning...

 

Old Shaft arcade shots match the base energy recharge rate. It charges as fast as it can shoot, therefore no reload penalties at all when spamming arcade, with or without M1 Alt.

 

New Shaft arcade shots do not match the base energy recharge rate. It shoots slightly faster than it can charge. While this might be a plus in the short term, you will feel a difference of about 12-16% longer reload depending on M level when you're trying to spam arcade shots from 0 energy, a.k.a. right after a scoped shot. This is similar to Ricochet's energy tank. Spamming arcade shots one after the other will now slowly drain your energy tank.

 

Stats taken from Patch Notes and Wiki

Will test in 30 min to confirm and post back results.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Longcat970

[enri_chill 265]

Agreed. While suspicious in terms of the overall rate of fire and some of the affects of tactical use of "quick shots", yeah, only time will tell how this one pans out.  The increase in reload might make it worth the jump in damage.  Still gonna hurt though when you barely charge a shot and then decide you have to relocate to take it on far.  I see camping MORE necessary with the charge being sucked down no matter what, so I really, REALLY, don't understand their logic now.

 

But, cooler heads prevail, yeah, lets see what happens (for the record, that min damage increase, if you read the patch fully, is not THAT impressive).

I am not a fan of the "all scoped shots are equal in cost" of the nerf. I rarely use a full charge. I prefer quicker hits and a more mobile playing style. Less likely to get frozen or torched from the rear:) Anyway, I am slowly moving all turrets up toward m4 now. Haven't been using the shaft for a while because of the last changes. I'll be watching to see how it performs in battle.

Also, the new alteration set better bring back penetration for Shaft for those glorious quad-kills of yore ;)

Did you mean "Rail" or did the Shaft use to have the capacity to penetrate multiple tanks?

[Amagi 1,728]

ADAPT AND SURVIVE

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Stinger911

[Longcat970 119]

I've tested for ~1 hr on M1, M2 alts with full MU; drugs, assault drone and the M1 alt on and off.

 

This update... lol. I don't even know what to say, in light of the community's negative reaction pre-update.

I guess we shaft users get to have the last laugh, hm?

 

 

CQC potential is massively increased; I never thought I'd see the day when Shaft is more effective DPS-wise than Thunder/Smoky within ~60m of the enemy, which is already a considerable proportion of encounters in MMS maps. Though arcade shots only deal minimum 25% damage at max range now, you can still fire a 4 shot barrage within seconds and still whittle their hp. Not to mention, you can react faster to approaching enemies because of how fast the arcade shots reload now.

 

I have mixed feelings about the new scope reload. It's very situational, really, kinda like magnum's new reload and striker's seldomly used lock mechanic. Very tedious when you just want to pop a light hull with <50% charge at range, but in most other cases where you go >50% for mediums and DA tanks, it's negligible. In fact, your arcade shots reload so fast that if your scoped shot doesn't immediately kill your target, you can just pew pew them dead with arcades after. Throw in a +10% or so recharge rate on top of that as well -- by the time you're full for scope again, everyone's dead from getting shot up in arcade.

 

"Hey, but can't I just RK my way out of your arcade spam and out-DPS you?"

Haha, nice try. I'll just scope you out and kill you before you even get to use it.  B) 

Or if I can't 1 shot you, pop a few arcs and finish with a half scope. Oh, and your Isida behind you? Yeah, I'll just arc it to death right after.

 

Ok, I might be exaggerating a bit, but it's not far from what I actually experienced within the first hour. Enemy shafts are now a very real threat, it actually reminds me a bit of when the first M3 shafts came out in classic TO -- to great demoralizing effect.

 

Anyhow, I smell a nerf coming soon just like with Freeze. It's just stupid powerful at doing the wrong things, and this is coming from a Shaft main.

Everyone better tack on a light hull, lots of MUs, the M1 alt, DD + Assault Drone, and go to town with those peasant Twins, Railguns, and Thunders while you still can :D :D :D

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

I've tested for ~1 hr on M1, M2 alts with full MU; drugs, assault drone and the M1 alt on and off.

 

This update... lol. I don't even know what to say, in light of the community's negative reaction pre-update.

I guess we shaft users get to have the last laugh, hm?

 

 

CQC potential is massively increased; I never thought I'd see the day when Shaft is more effective DPS-wise than Thunder/Smoky within ~60m of the enemy, which is already a considerable proportion of encounters in MMS maps. Though arcade shots only deal minimum 25% damage at max range now, you can still fire a 4 shot barrage within seconds and still whittle their hp. Not to mention, you can react faster to approaching enemies because of how fast the arcade shots reload now.

 

I have mixed feelings about the new scope reload. It's very situational, really, kinda like magnum's new reload and striker's seldomly used lock mechanic. Very tedious when you just want to pop a light hull with <50% charge at range, but in most other cases where you go >50% for mediums and DA tanks, it's negligible.

 

 

 

In fact, your arcade shots reload so fast that if your scoped shot doesn't immediately kill your target, you can just pew pew them dead with arcades after. Throw in a +10% or so recharge rate on top of that as well -- by the time you're full for scope again, everyone's dead from getting shot up in arcade.

 

 

 

"Hey, but can't I just RK my way out of your arcade spam and out-DPS you?"

Haha, nice try. I'll just scope you out and kill you before you even get to use it.  B)

Or if I can't 1 shot you, pop a few arcs and finish with a half scope. Oh, and your Isida behind you? Yeah, I'll just arc it to death right after.

 

Ok, I might be exaggerating a bit, but it's not far from what I actually experienced within the first hour. Enemy shafts are now a very real threat, it actually reminds me a bit of when the first M3 shafts came out in classic TO -- to great demoralizing effect.

 

Anyhow, I smell a nerf coming soon just like with Freeze. It's just stupid powerful at doing the wrong things, and this is coming from a Shaft main.

Everyone better tack on a light hull, lots of MUs, the M1 alt, DD + Assault Drone, and go to town with those peasant Twins, Railguns, and Thunders while you still can :D :D :D

 

 

So Shaft Arcade has similar reload to smoky, does more damage within 50m, and prob similar damage out to 80m.  And this is the "secondary attack"?    :o    That's just nuts.

 

Not sure why some of the Shaft users are complaining.  Does not sound like an overall nerf...

[splitterpoint 10,986]

Woah, I take back what I said earlier.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Anyhow, I smell a nerf coming soon just like with Freeze. It's just stupid powerful at doing the wrong things, and this is coming from a Shaft main.

Everyone better tack on a light hull, lots of MUs, the M1 alt, DD + Assault Drone, and go to town with those peasant Twins, Railguns, and Thunders while you still can :D :D :D

I hope my 46% shaft module will be enough to cancel out this buff :D

 

 

if it's not i have shaft m3 with both alterations to join the slaughter ;)

Edited October 16, 2018 by GuidoFawkes

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I am not a fan of the "all scoped shots are equal in cost" of the nerf. I rarely use a full charge. I prefer quicker hits and a more mobile playing style. Less likely to get frozen or torched from the rear:) Anyway, I am slowly moving all turrets up toward m4 now. Haven't been using the shaft for a while because of the last changes. I'll be watching to see how it performs in battle.

Did you mean "Rail" or did the Shaft use to have the capacity to penetrate multiple tanks?

Shaft used to have the penetration ability before the rebalance update of October 2016.

 

Since then, that ability has been removed.