Let's Discuss Smoky!

[D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S 432]

9 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

Both are good in their own ways though you should consider on the fact that there a lot of smoky protections and a lot less gauss protections.

Whats with this narrative amongst so many players? Do you guys even use smoky? Theres almost never more than 2 smoky modules in every game I play and I almost exclusively use smoky in MM. On the other hand, Gauss will definitely have even fewer protections than that in any mode outside of Siege, so that much is true. 

9 hours ago, Russty said:

Do you think stock Smoky is better than stock Gauss? I'm at Brigadier (one gold star) so I'm facing higher rank players. I'm not sure which one to get but I do know that Smoky has a lot of good augments.

They're both good turrets, I'd say Smoky is a bit better at close to medium ranges and Gauss gets better the further out you go. Having two modes can be a massive plus, but critical shots (especially with incendiary rounds) are really nice. Despite me being the biggest smoky fan, I'd say in this current meta Gauss probably edges it by a little bit *prays for smoky buff that will never arrive*

Edited July 2, 2020 by D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S

[E_polypterus 2,374]

7 hours ago, D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S said:

Whats with this narrative amongst so many players? Do you guys even use smoky? Theres almost never more than 2 smoky modules in every game I play and I almost exclusively use smoky in MM. On the other hand, Gauss will definitely have even fewer protections than that in any mode outside of Siege, so that much is true. 

Yes i do use smoky. well in almost all games i play there are smoky modules. isk if this is different in mm than in pro tho.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

7 hours ago, D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S said:

Whats with this narrative amongst so many players? Do you guys even use smoky? Theres almost never more than 2 smoky modules in every game I play and I almost exclusively use smoky in MM. On the other hand, Gauss will definitely have even fewer protections than that in any mode outside of Siege, so that much is true. 

They're both good turrets, I'd say Smoky is a bit better at close to medium ranges and Gauss gets better the further out you go. Having two modes can be a massive plus, but critical shots (especially with incendiary rounds) are really nice. Despite me being the biggest smoky fan, I'd say in this current meta Gauss probably edges it by a little bit *prays for smoky buff that will never arrive*

I'll usually see about one or two on the enemy team in Legend battles. Sometimes a few of the unprotected ones switch over to Smoky protection. 

[KamiGT 143]

I second this. I have been watching lately (since I want to buy Smoky) and I've only seen about 2 or 3 modules per battle. It is oddly rare considering the fact that Smoky doesn't seem to be super uncommon.

[KamiGT 143]

Well maybe not OP, but I have seen some people do crazy work with it recently in MM battles. I think it has some real potential to be an absolute terror. In my experience, it even does super well in DMs.

(It really has raw power potential, not just support value)

Edited July 3, 2020 by KamiGT

[KamiGT 143]

I bought Smoky today at the sales and I've got to say that it really holds value well. I used it for quite a few battles against Legends, and with only stock Mk7 it still performed adequately. I even got first place a few times. There were not a huge amount of protections against it, and it seems to be really useful for collecting score via "assist" damage or simply focusing on one target. I'm really happy with how it performs underleveled, so hopefully at M4 it is a monster.

[D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S 432]

30 minutes ago, KamiGT said:

I bought Smoky today at the sales and I've got to say that it really holds value well. I used it for quite a few battles against Legends, and with only stock Mk7 it still performed adequately. I even got first place a few times. There were not a huge amount of protections against it, and it seems to be really useful for collecting score via "assist" damage or simply focusing on one target. I'm really happy with how it performs underleveled, so hopefully at M4 it is a monster.

Assist damage is the key, get one shot onto an enemy, even if your teammate does 99% of the damage you still get the same 5 points. Kill stealing is also relatively easy when the fire rate is so high. Mine just upgraded to Mk7-15 this morning 

[sharifsahaf 656]

sniping a smoky thats aware is so hard .u gotta aim at the base

[Venem 615]

33 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

I have got smoky mk7-5. Gonna micro up it to 6 tomorrow during the sale.

That's such a small fraction of the total available MU's for Mk7... XD

But I agree, it means a lot.

[PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA 93]

omg, they are buffing smoky impact force?

[PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA 93]

27 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

No they aren't.

what was the announcement they are going back to the 2015 smoky and railgun 

[PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA 93]

1 minute ago, At_Shin said:

It was a only a filler vlog. They had no new content to talk about so they talked about old content.

tsk....bull crap gonna dislike their vid

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

5 hours ago, PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA said:

tsk....bull crap gonna dislike their vid

Here's what I thought of this weeks vlog overall.

[Azonyx 124]

Couldn't find the edit date on the Wiki page but anyway, inb4 Smoky coconuts:

[Okami 3,041]

On 7/25/2020 at 6:21 AM, Azonyx said:

Smoky coconuts

Smokonuts? 

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

I decided to crunch some numbers and compare how Smoky's augments compare to each other in terms of damage per minute, factoring in critical shot damage. Before showing the results, here are the average critical shot rates for stock Smoky.

Modification	Average crit rate
Mk1	18.4%
Mk2	19.2%
Mk3	19.7%
Mk4	20.0%
Mk5	20.2%
Mk6	20.4%
Mk7	20.4%
Mk7+	20.3%

For example, take Mk7 Smoky. The average crit rate is 0.203, which means that on average, it will score one critical hit out of every 4.92 hits (1 / 0.203). Now for actual DPM comparisons: Assault rounds / Cryo rounds, High precision aiming system, stock, Supercumulative rounds, and Autocannon respectively.

Modification	AR / CR	HPAS	Stock	SR	Autocannon
Mk1	9 000	10 588	11 639	11 854	22 076
Mk2	10 654	12 155	13 343	13 632	23 968
Mk3	12 076	13 483	14 784	15 150	25 398
Mk4	13 585	14 859	16 274	16 713	26 653
Mk5	15 094	16 208	17 731	18 253	27 848
Mk6	16 788	17 730	19 376	19 992	28 987
Mk7	19 033	19 723	21 524	22 254	30 267
Mk7+	22 929	23 168	25 237	26 174	32 299

Unsurprisingly, AR and CR have the lowest DPM (they give up extra crit damage), stock Smoky comes right in the middle, and Autocannon has by far the best. Somewhat surprisingly, SR beats stock.

Here are DPM percentage decreases / increases relative to stock for each alteration:

Modification	AR / CR	HPAS	SR	Autocannon
Mk1	-23%	-9%	2%	90%
Mk2	-20%	-9%	2%	80%
Mk3	-18%	-9%	2%	72%
Mk4	-17%	-9%	3%	64%
Mk5	-15%	-9%	3%	57%
Mk6	-13%	-8%	3%	50%
Mk7	-12%	-8%	3%	41%
Mk7+	-9%	-8%	4%	28%

In conclusion, if you want more sustained damage, get Autocannon.

Edited March 9, 2021 by ThirdOnion
Formatting

[coconuttree 519]

How exaclty does SR beat stock. By just looking at the stats, it seems the other way around

[GG_reg 1,521]

15 minutes ago, ThirdOnion said:

I decided to crunch some numbers and compare how Smoky's augments compare to each other in terms of damage per minute, factoring in critical shot damage. Before showing the results, here are the average critical shot rates for stock Smoky.

Modification	Average crit rate
Mk1	0.184
Mk2	0.192
Mk3	0.199
Mk4	0.201
Mk5	0.203
Mk6	0.209
Mk7	0.208
Mk7+	0.206

For example, take Mk7 Smoky. The average crit rate is 0.208, which means that on average, it will score one critical hit out of every 4.8 hits (1 / 0.208). Now for actual DPM comparisons: Assault rounds / Cryo rounds, High precision aiming system, stock, Supercumulative rounds, and Autocannon respectively.

Modification	AR / CR	HPAS	Stock	SR	Autocannon
Mk1	9 000	10 591	11 642	11 854	22 092
Mk2	10 654	12 159	13 347	13 632	23 994
Mk3	12 076	13 503	14 810	15 150	25 545
Mk4	13 585	14 867	16 284	16 713	26 712
Mk5	15 094	16 209	17 734	18 253	27 860
Mk6	16 788	17 782	19 446	19 992	29 421
Mk7	19 033	19 760	21 575	22 254	30 594
Mk7+	22 929	23 189	25 266	26 174	32 508

Unsurprisingly, AR and CR have the lowest DPM (they give up extra crit damage), stock Smoky comes right in the middle, and Autocannon has by far the best. Somewhat surprisingly, SR beats stock.

Here are DPM percentage decreases / increases relative to stock for each alteration:

Modification	AR / CR	HPAS	SR	Autocannon
Mk1	-29.36%	-9.93%	1.79%	47.30%
Mk2	-25.28%	-9.77%	2.09%	44.37%
Mk3	-22.64%	-9.68%	2.25%	42.03%
Mk4	-19.87%	-9.53%	2.56%	39.04%
Mk5	-17.49%	-9.40%	2.85%	36.35%
Mk6	-15.84%	-9.36%	2.73%	33.91%
Mk7	-13.36%	-9.19%	3.05%	29.48%
Mk7+	-10.20%	-8.96%	3.47%	22.28%

In conclusion, if you want more sustained damage, get Autocannon.

Topic merged.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

14 hours ago, At_Shin said:

Hey what I don't get it how an mk7+ smokey has lesser chance of dealing critical damage than an mk6, which you have shown to have a chance of 0.209.

Or is average critical rate something else which I did not understand?

Average critical rate is how often Smoky scores critical hits on average, and is not quite the same as the chance of dealing critical damage.

Smoky has a variable critical chance. After a critical hit, the critical chance drops down to a negative value, then increases with each standard shot until another critical hit is scored and the cycle starts over again. For Smoky Mk7+, the minimum critical value is -0.3, while the rate at which the critical chance increases is +0.202 per shot.

Shot	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
Critical chance	-0.300	-0.098	0.104	0.306	0.508	0.710	0.912	1.114
Standard shot chance	1.000	1.000	0.896	0.694	0.492	0.290	0.088	0.000

It's impossible to get a crit on the first or second shot because the critical chance is negative (effectively 0), and after seven standard shots, the eighth one is guaranteed to be a crit.

What is the probability to get a critical shot in five shots? The probability is not 0.508. It's actually the probability of getting four standard shots in row followed by a critical shot, or 1.000 * 1.000 * 0.896 * 0.649 * 0.508 = 0.295. Let's do this for all the possible shot counts.

Crit on	1st shot	2nd shot	3rd shot	4th shot	5th shot	6th shot	7th shot	8th shot
Probability	0	0	0.104	0.274	0.316	0.217	0.081	0.008

To find the average crit rate, we simply take the average of all these probabilities and shot counts (1 * 0 + 1 * 0 + 3 * 0.104 + 4 * 0.274 . . .) which is 4.920. So on average a Smoky Mk7+ scores a critical hit once out of every 4.92 shots, and the crit rate is 0.203 (This is not what I originally calculated it to be; I made a mistake the first time but have now corrected it).

If we do the same thing for Mk6, we'll have the following distribution.

Crit on	1st shot	2nd shot	3rd shot	4th shot	5th shot	6th shot	7th shot	8th shot
Probability	0	0	0.174	0.311	0.298	0.170	0.047	0.001

A crit occurs once out of every 4.907 shots on average, and the crit rate is slightly higher. So even though it doesn't really make much logical sense for Mk6 to have a better crit rate than Mk7+, that's just how it is.

14 hours ago, coconuttree said:

How exaclty does SR beat stock. By just looking at the stats, it seems the other way around

It does seem that way based on the stats, but the average crit rate does not actually suffer as much as the critical chance.

Modification	Stock crit rate	SR crit rate	Decrease
Mk1	0.184	0.110	-40.38%
Mk2	0.192	0.113	-41.10%
Mk3	0.197	0.116	-41.49%
Mk4	0.200	0.116	-42.01%
Mk5	0.202	0.117	-42.38%
Mk6	0.204	0.117	-42.70%
Mk7	0.204	0.116	-43.24%
Mk7+	0.203	0.114	-43.97%

Edited August 6, 2020 by ThirdOnion

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

13 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

Inferring from your observations, i find that smokey mk7 is actually better than smokey mk7+, looks like i don't need to upgrade it much after all!

Edit- the wiki says something about Chance step of special damage, do you know what this is?

I wouldn't say Smoky Mk7 is better than Mk7+. Even though the average crit rate is slightly lower, you still get a considerable damage boost.

I have no idea what that parameter is, and I think it has been added relatively recently.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 8/5/2020 at 6:21 AM, At_Shin said:

And, I am not surprised that auto cannon possess the highst DPM, it got a serious buff from 20 to 25% damage of stock smokey per shot. (No wonder the Congo spider gets loads of kills with it...he just battled against me today and dealt better damage than my Vulcun did to him, I only managed to tickle him.

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 8/6/2020 at 3:22 AM, At_Shin said:

Inferring from your observations, i find that smokey mk7 is actually better than smokey mk7+, looks like i don't need to upgrade it much after all!

Not at all.

Every other parameter for mk7+ is better.  That far outweighs the very small extra chance mk7 has over mk7+.

Heck, the critical damage dealt by mk7+ probably makes up that difference.

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 8/5/2020 at 6:03 AM, GG_reg said:

Topic merged.

Where's incendiary?

[wolverine848 13,097]

32 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

But I had hunter equipped too so maybe that's why I was dying more...

Ding-Ding-Ding.

33% more health on Titan makes a big difference.

And vulcan sucks up close so that is not the best combo for Hunter.

[Benefactor 6,888]

How come the Wiki states that Hammer, Ricochet, Twins and Smoky have the lowest Impact and Thunder, Gauss, Railgun and Shaft have HUNDREDS of times more impact force? Is this a typo or the real Impact Force?