Let's Discuss Hornet!

[999_noob 10]

8 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Well you are using it wrong.

Freeze Hornet is ok if you are trying to steal flags.

But to get most out of OD you need to use long-range turret so...

1) You can use it instantly anywhere on the map if targets in sight

2) You keep danger at arms-length

3) High-damage turrets allow hornet to one-shot medium hulls.

Yeah, the freeze and hornet combo is good only CTF? You're telling me it's only good got short to medium range map. I got my ass beat in short MM battle TDM it's too much that I got to change my gear... 

[123tim456back 195]

24 minutes ago, 999_noob said:

Yeah, the freeze and hornet combo is good only CTF? You're telling me it's only good got short to medium range map. I got my ass beat in short MM battle TDM it's too much that I got to change my gear... 

Freeze is crap right now.  As wolverine said, hornet OD works the best with long range turrets.  Try it with rail, magnum, shaft with LC, or gauss instead.  Broken. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

58 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

In fact every time a hornet and railgun user activates its OD and kills me, I ask myself "Why the Hell did I waste my time and crystals on rail protection when hornet can just freely cancel it with a push of a button?"

You really look at this too harshly. If you continue to look at it like this, then you might as well unequip all your protection modules because each turret can be equipped and mines can be placed by a Hornet and "have your protection against it freely cancelled with the push of a button". Yeah, I went down the slippery slope for this. 

 

Hornet is not the only hull a turret can be put on. Hornet is one of seven hulls you can put the fourteen turrets on. It really sounds like your protection modules immediately become a joke when a Hornet enters the battle. They don't. 

 

You use Thunder mostly. You'd see firsthand every day how many Thunder protection modules are around and equipped in battle. You use Viking and it's comfortably upgraded. Imagine using Hornet now. Less HP and can be one-shotted by a lot more things than a medium hull can. Now go into battle and see 7 enemies have protection against you. You'll find it hard to kill as you have paper health yourself and can be easily one-shotted while you deal decreased damage because of the protection modules. You struggle and struggle until you get your Overdrive. You're now ready to let loose. You activate and get a kill only to be one-shotted by a Railgun/Shaft/Gauss/Hammer/ whatever hit you. You now have 10% Overdrive charge for yourself after trying so hard to get some from kills. Now the process begins all over again. But it's going to be harder now as time progressed and some enemies now have their Overdrives ready and you don't. You finally get to deal some comfortable damage and you died early because your HP is low. 

 

If you want to see the Hornet get its Overdrive less times per battle on average, just equip the protection module. It's not like the Hornet has 100% Overdrive charge forever and can activate it whenever it feels like it. If the Hornet has a hard time killing people because of protection modules, it'll take longer for them to get 100% Overdrive charge because kills and assists are the easiest ways to quickly generate Overdrive charge. Because they can't kill those players and they have paper health, they'll be getting killed a lot more now trying to get Overdrive charge to let loose. If everyone were to just go with your logic and unequip all protection modules or not buy it at all, then you'll be getting 100% damage from them at all times. All turrets are powerful when not protected against. You'll now be dying to them quicker and they'll be getting a lot of Overdrive charge very quickly. 

I've had battles with Magnum where protection modules were all over the place on both teams. The number of them rose with the last buff it received. And some battles can see 6 enemies with it. I can no longer one-shot them. Sometimes the medium hulls with no DA need 3 shots to die because Magnum's damage distribution is RNG-heavy and I can get unlucky shots. I'm struggling in 1 v 1s because I can get one-shotted easily/killed easily while I'm dealing much less damage to them. Because of this I can't rely on kills to get Overdrive charge. Assists help me out more. When I get my Overdrive, I try to maximise it because the value it has now (that there are 6 protection modules on the enemy team) is much higher and the most needs to be made of it. Unfortunately, I am killed at the beginning and lose almost all of my charge or reset back to 0%, and the cycle continues. 

 

Do your really blame the Railguns for using Hornet? Do you blame them for using damage-increasing alterations? You yourself said Stock Railgun is bad compared to the alterations. Having to face all those protection modules every battle is twisting the knife for Stock. 

 

You bought the protection module and you know it helps you when it's equipped because you take reduced damage from all Railguns and your survivability is increased. The next time you die to a Hornet Railgun that activated their Overdrive in your face, just go straight to the garage and unequip your Falcon protection module. Because it clearly is of no use with that pesky Hornet around, and it clearly doesn't matter if you had it equipped throughout the battle or not. 

 

 

I'm sorry if I sound patronising or demeaning towards you throughout this but I'm just trying show you that against Hornets, protection modules have much use, and that Hornet is not the only hull in the game nor does every Hornet in the game have their Overdrive ready at all times.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by TheCongoSpider

[123tim456back 195]

4 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

You really look at this too harshly. If you continue to look at it like this, then you might as well unequip all your protection modules because each turret can be equipped and mines can be placed by a Hornet and "have your protection against it freely cancelled with the push of a button". Yeah, I went down the slippery slope for this. 

 

Hornet is not the only hull a turret can be put on. Hornet is one of seven hulls you can put the fourteen turrets on. It really sounds like your protection modules immediately become a joke when a Hornet enters the battle. They don't. 

True, but hornet invalidates the protection module consistently, making it lose value.  

8 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

You finally get to deal some comfortable damage and you died early because your HP is low. 

 

Unfortunately, I am killed at the beginning and lose almost all of my charge or reset back to 0%, and the cycle continues. 

That's why hornet is played with long range turrets.  It reduces the chance of dying significantly.  In addition, if everyone has a protection module against you just because you are a hornet, that is one less against your team, unless your team is made up of 8 magnums.  

If you need to equip a protection module against a hornet user because you don't want them getting overdrive charge, that is a problem.  Do you equip a module just because someone is using hunter and you don't want to give them overdrive charge? What about titan? Modules should be equipped based on how common a turret is within a match, or  based on the best players on the enemy team.  Not based on a hull.  

15 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Do your really blame the Railguns for using Hornet? Do you blame them for using damage-increasing alterations? You yourself said Stock Railgun is bad compared to the alterations. Having to face all those protection modules every battle is twisting the knife for Stock. 

That is a problem with railgun's alteration and stock railgun being unbalanced.  

 

Where do I stand? 

Hornet OD is OP, but not to the point where they render modules completely useless, just much less effective.  It still needs to be nerfed.  It is viking's OD, but less risky, has a longer duration, has wall hacks, and charges faster.  

[wolverine848 13,097]

14 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

You really look at this too harshly. If you continue to look at it like this, then you might as well unequip all your protection modules because each turret can be equipped and mines can be placed by a Hornet and "have your protection against it freely cancelled with the push of a button". Yeah, I went down the slippery slope for this. 

 

Hornet is not the only hull a turret can be put on. Hornet is one of seven hulls you can put the fourteen turrets on. It really sounds like your protection modules immediately become a joke when a Hornet enters the battle. They don't. 

 

You use Thunder mostly. You'd see firsthand every day how many Thunder protection modules are around and equipped in battle. You use Viking and it's comfortably upgraded. Imagine using Hornet now. Less HP and can be one-shotted by a lot more things than a medium hull can. Now go into battle and see 7 enemies have protection against you. You'll find it hard to kill as you have paper health yourself and can be easily one-shotted while you deal decreased damage because of the protection modules. You struggle and struggle until you get your Overdrive. You're now ready to let loose. You activate and get a kill only to be one-shotted by a Railgun/Shaft/Gauss/Hammer/ whatever hit you. You now have 10% Overdrive charge for yourself after trying so hard to get some from kills. Now the process begins all over again. But it's going to be harder now as time progressed and some enemies now have their Overdrives ready and you don't. You finally get to deal some comfortable damage and you died early because your HP is low. 

 

If you want to see the Hornet get its Overdrive less times per battle on average, just equip the protection module. It's not like the Hornet has 100% Overdrive charge forever and can activate it whenever it feels like it. If the Hornet has a hard time killing people because of protection modules, it'll take longer for them to get 100% Overdrive charge because kills and assists are the easiest ways to quickly generate Overdrive charge. Because they can't kill those players and they have paper health, they'll be getting killed a lot more now trying to get Overdrive charge to let loose. If everyone were to just go with your logic and unequip all protection modules or not buy it at all, then you'll be getting 100% damage from them at all times. All turrets are powerful when not protected against. You'll now be dying to them quicker and they'll be getting a lot of Overdrive charge very quickly. 

I've had battles with Magnum where protection modules were all over the place on both teams. The number of them rose with the last buff it received. And some battles can see 6 enemies with it. I can no longer one-shot them. Sometimes the medium hulls with no DA need 3 shots to die because Magnum's damage distribution is RNG-heavy and I can get unlucky shots. I'm struggling in 1 v 1s because I can get one-shotted easily/killed easily while I'm dealing much less damage to them. Because of this I can't rely on kills to get Overdrive charge. Assists help me out more. When I get my Overdrive, I try to maximise it because the value it has now (that there are 6 protection modules on the enemy team) is much higher and the most needs to be made of it. Unfortunately, I am killed at the beginning and lose almost all of my charge or reset back to 0%, and the cycle continues. 

 

Do your really blame the Railguns for using Hornet? Do you blame them for using damage-increasing alterations? You yourself said Stock Railgun is bad compared to the alterations. Having to face all those protection modules every battle is twisting the knife for Stock. 

 

You bought the protection module and you know it helps you when it's equipped because you take reduced damage from all Railguns and your survivability is increased. The next time you die to a Hornet Railgun that activated their Overdrive in your face, just go straight to the garage and unequip your Falcon protection module. Because it clearly is of no use with that pesky Hornet around, and it clearly doesn't matter if you had it equipped throughout the battle or not. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm sorry if I sound patronising or demeaning towards you throughout this but I'm just trying show you that against Hornets, protection modules have much use, and that Hornet is not the only hull in the game nor does every Hornet in the game have their Overdrive ready at all times.

 

Hornet is still the most popular hull in the game. Followed by Viking and then... maybe Hunter.

With multiple hornets on enemy team, plus a dictator, plus nuclear supply drops, plus it lasts 20 seconds, there's a Hornet enemy with OD active a lot more than you make it sound like.  Plus - there's at least 3 turrets that with DD have a decent chance to one-shot a fully protected medium hull. 

So sure, we can equip modules against those turrets, and for some of the battle we don't get one-shot.  But with prevalance of OD in this game now it happens a lot.

(ya couldn't condense that?    )

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

1) You really look at this too harshly. If you continue to look at it like this, then you might as well unequip all your protection modules because each turret can be equipped and mines can be placed by a Hornet and "have your protection against it freely cancelled with the push of a button". Yeah, I went down the slippery slope for this. 

 

2) Do your really blame the Railguns for using Hornet? Do you blame them for using damage-increasing alterations? You yourself said Stock Railgun is bad compared to the alterations. Having to face all those protection modules every battle is twisting the knife for Stock. 

 

 

1) this may be a harsh way to look at it. But that's what it feels like.

 

2) if it makes you happy and joyful, I'll be straight up honest with you. Yes, I blame someone, not the railgun users though because they're only doing what they think will help them out best. I blame the ignorant assclown devs for not doing anything to fix this problem.

Edited February 20, 2020 by DieselPlatinum

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

54 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Hornet is still the most popular hull in the game. Followed by Viking and then... maybe Hunter.

Is it? Is this based on your perspective or information from the devs? You said you see Hornets all over but I see Vikings all over, and others see Hunters all over. 

 

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

With multiple hornets on enemy team, plus a dictator, plus nuclear supply drops, plus it lasts 20 seconds, there's a Hornet enemy with OD active a lot more than you make it sound like.  Plus - there's at least 3 turrets that with DD have a decent chance to one-shot a fully protected medium hull. 

So sure, we can equip modules against those turrets, and for some of the battle we don't get one-shot.  But with prevalance of OD in this game now it happens a lot.

(ya couldn't condense that?    )

Damn, the Hornet population must be really concentrated where you are. I would look at the composition of the enemy team as quickly as possible. My battles would consist of 4 Vikings, 1 Hunter/Dictator, 2 Titans/Mammoths and 1 Hornet/Wasp on the enemy team on average (varies with the gamemode, of course). Vikings being consistently dominant in numbers.

There are the battles where there are multiple of another hull on the enemy team. Had a number battles before with at least 3 Hornets on the enemy team. They lost most of the time if it was not TDM. Had battles where my team had 3+ Hornets (including me). Twice my team was able to initiate spawnkilling the enemy team but other times, we were overwhelmed because we had many hulls with low HP on the team and we didn't have our Overdrives active all the time. 

 

1 hour ago, 123tim456back said:

True, but hornet invalidates the protection module consistently, making it lose value.  

Alright. 

 

1 hour ago, 123tim456back said:

In addition, if everyone has a protection module against you just because you are a hornet, that is one less against your team, unless your team is made up of 8 magnums.  

If you need to equip a protection module against a hornet user because you don't want them getting overdrive charge, that is a problem.  Do you equip a module just because someone is using hunter and you don't want to give them overdrive charge? What about titan? Modules should be equipped based on how common a turret is within a match, or  based on the best players on the enemy team.  Not based on a hull.  

The Hornets I see are usually using Railgun, Thunder, Gauss or a turret with an OP alteration + a drone. Common turrets. 

 

Bad wording on my part. Of course if the Hornet is using the only turret of its kind on the enemy team, it would be a priority to use protection modules on the most popular turret on the enemy team. But if there are 3 Railguns on the enemy team and 2 of them are using Hornet, that doesn't mean you're not getting value from it at all. If you weren't getting any value from it, it would be the same as unequipping it. But would you unequip it if the enemy team had 3 turrets total and you had all 3 of those protection modules? I'm guessing you wouldn't, but why wouldn't you if it's not doing anything whether it's there or not? 

That's directed towards Diesel's seemingly exaggerated complaints about it. Then again, I don't play with or against him every day to see what hull diversity his enemy teams have. For all I know, he could be facing a lot of them just like wolverine. I guess I'm too lenient on the Hornets. 

2 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

1) this may be a harsh way to look at it. But that's what it feels like.

 

2) if it makes you happy and joyful, I'll be straight up honest with you. Yes, I blame someone, not the railgun users though because they're only doing what they think will help them out best. I blame the ignorant assclown devs for not doing anything to fix this problem.

Alright. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

8 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Is it? Is this based on your perspective or information from the devs? You said you see Hornets all over but I see Vikings all over, and others see Hunters all over. 

Yes.

Oddly enough here's what I mentioned as the top 3 in the post you quoted... hornet-viking-hunter.   Sound familiar?

For some reason you seem to have an issue that others have an issue with hornet OD.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

4 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Yes.

Oddly enough here's what I mentioned as the top 3 in the post you quoted... hornet-viking-hunter.   Sound familiar?

I mean dominantly. I don't encounter enough Hornets to have my protection modules ignored every second of the battle. 

7 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

For some reason you seem to have an issue that others have an issue with hornet OD.

I just had an issue with his exaggeration. Using Hornet's Overdrive as a reason not to buy a protection module? That seems too far. 

[123tim456back 195]

Not bothered to quote.  

In my experience, Hornets are not the most popular, Vikings are.  It ranks in the second tier of popularity for me, being hunter, hornet, and Titan. I get that @TheCongoSpider‘s gripe is about Diesel’s exaggeration.  Just stating my experience.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

I mean dominantly. I don't encounter enough Hornets to have my protection modules ignored every second of the battle. 

I just had an issue with his exaggeration. Using Hornet's Overdrive as a reason not to buy a protection module? That seems too far. 

I think it was more sarcasm than any actual reason to not buy/equip modules (and yet the non-equipping IS STILL PREVALENT - shakes head).

The main point is... there's no counter - especially for the long-range turrets.  As soon as they see you... bam!  At least with Shaft there's a laser.  But other high-damage turrets can do this as a complete surprise - and there's no defense against it.

I see hornet-rail and hornet-magnums all the time - at mid to high ranks.  At least 2 enemy hornets per battle on average.  That's 25% of the enemy when there's what... 13 turrets?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

1 minute ago, wolverine848 said:

I think it was more sarcasm than any actual reason to not buy/equip modules (and yet the non-equipping IS STILL PREVALENT - shakes head).

The main point is... there's no counter - especially for the long-range turrets.  As soon as they see you... bam!  At least with Shaft there's a laser.  But other high-damage turrets can do this as a complete surprise - and there's no defense against it.

I see hornet-rail and hornet-magnums all the time - at mid to high ranks.  At least 2 enemy hornets per battle on average.  That's 25% of the enemy when there's what... 13 turrets?

Alright thanks for the perspective. I don't see Hornets merely that much. I guess I just grew overly tolerant of it over time. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

35 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

. I guess I just grew overly tolerant of it over time. 

That's really not a good thing to have in players when they have stated over and over and over again that somethings OP and then all of a sudden they start to tolerate the very thing that they once wanted to be nerfed.

 

To me it means that theyre losing faith in the devs.

[Benefactor 6,888]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

I think it was more sarcasm than any actual reason to not buy/equip modules (and yet the non-equipping IS STILL PREVALENT - shakes head).

The main point is... there's no counter - especially for the long-range turrets.  As soon as they see you... bam!  At least with Shaft there's a laser.  But other high-damage turrets can do this as a complete surprise - and there's no defense against it.

I see hornet-rail and hornet-magnums all the time - at mid to high ranks.  At least 2 enemy hornets per battle on average.  That's 25% of the enemy when there's what... 13 turrets?

Lifeguard drone?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, Benefactor said:

Lifeguard drone?

Even if that's a counter to hornets OD, it's not enough.

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, Benefactor said:

Lifeguard drone?

So the only in-game counter to a (free) OD is to buy and upgrade an expensive drone?

Other ODs have counters that don't require a drone.  Why should Hornet not have a more "common" counter?

This game is supposed to be rock-paper-scissors wrt to the ODs.  Hornet OD adds a new layer called dynomite.

[Benefactor 6,888]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

So the only in-game counter to a (free) OD is to buy and upgrade an expensive drone?

Other ODs have counters that don't require a drone.  Why should Hornet not have a more "common" counter?

This game is supposed to be rock-paper-scissors wrt to the ODs.  Hornet OD adds a new layer called dynomite.

Spoiler

 

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

4 minutes ago, Benefactor said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Joey (character - not his own show) was the best...

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

7 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

That's really not a good thing to have in players when they have stated over and over and over again that somethings OP and then all of a sudden they start to tolerate the very thing that they once wanted to be nerfed.

 

To me it means that theyre losing faith in the devs.

Oh, I see.  

 

I do think it's needs a nerf, that stance hasn't changed, but at the moment if I turn the corner and a Hornet activates their Overdrive and kills me, I just whisper, "Nice", and then look for ways to hide from them/catch them off-guard/look at who else I can focus on when I spawn. 

 

Same thing I do when my Viking teammate or enemy Viking gets a teamwipe with their Overdrive, or a Wasp gets a quadruple kill or higher on full health opponents. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

7 hours ago, Benefactor said:

Lifeguard drone?

 

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

So the only in-game counter to a (free) OD is to buy and upgrade an expensive drone?

Other ODs have counters that don't require a drone.  Why should Hornet not have a more "common" counter?

This game is supposed to be rock-paper-scissors wrt to the ODs.  Hornet OD adds a new layer called dynomite.

I'm not letting that thing suck whatever number of repair kits I have remaining. They're too valuable for me to use a drone like that atm. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

So the only in-game counter to a (free) OD is to buy and upgrade an expensive drone?

Other ODs have counters that don't require a drone.  Why should Hornet not have a more "common" counter?

This game is supposed to be rock-paper-scissors wrt to the ODs.  Hornet OD adds a new layer called dynomite.

 

3 hours ago, Benefactor said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

More like rock-paper-scissors BAZOOKA.

[Potdindy 866]

Cant tell what the arguments are that are flowing around.

I love that a light hull got some love but hornets OD has become oppressive imo. I wish they could put it into a better place like hunters is...i love where hunter is.

That being said, im at legend rank and most of what I see is vikings...I get a bit salty when I see viks dominating bc its essentially the do it all hull, its almost as fast as a light hull and has more than enough armor to go toe to toe with anything else.

tldr: Slow down hornets OD or dont ignore armor, and lower viking hp by a bit, and you will see other hulls be played more.

[HomerSimpsonOG 1]

Hornet is good with any weapons as long as:

1. with short range weapons you stay out of sight until you get to an enemy tank

2. with long range weapons you stay as far away from other tanks as possible so you can one-shot them without beig damaged yourself.

[Reddkuest 48]

Hornet with Booster drone, liberal use of DD and any high dps (Vulcan/Firebird) turrets should get you under OD 50% of the time. Also, the latest rage seems to be rushing enemy bases and go on spawn killing sprees - 2-3 Hornets will dominate and can win a game by themselves doing this repetitively. Because Hornet OD ignore spawn invulnerability. Enjoy.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Red hornet-booster vulcan user with double my number of kills (with vulcan but no booster or hornet overdrive).

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by ghost-guns