Player's Moderation: Kick2

[BSG-62 512]

In every game......there are those 5 guys at the bottom......with 0 score......begging for golds, even though they're automatic.......

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Assumptions:

- a mult is a secondary account, that has to be leveled fast in order to be used as a mult (Major at least):

- the mult owner will use a lot of drugs the get his account from recruit up towards Major or higher

- this fast ranking is easiest done with a little real money for kits and the (ab)use of drugs

- if you have a mult in your team, you almost _have_ to use drugs yourself to compensate for him

 

Conclusion:

- tanki earns a lot real money, accumulated over all people that want to create their personal mult secondary account in fast time

- as well as by the ones that try to compensate mults in their own team

 

Does someone share that thought?

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Assumptions:

- a mult is a secondary account, that has to be leveled fast in order to be used as a mult (Major at least):

Any account can act like a mult.  Mult-like players can be anyone. Players who act like mults are brazen about it knowing they only get a slap on the wrist if caught.

 

So the word mult hasn't been totally synonymous with secondary accounts for a long time, even though that's technically what it means.

[Linda_Zarina 118]

Im actually wondering why they don't even take this topic to new level? As in, if they did we already would of knew.... 

[RustyNail 1,538]

This game is hopeless.... I spend 4-5 battle minutes in order to follow a hacker (in Rio) and printscreen him the moment of hacking, I got an undoubtedly shot of him at the moment he self-destructed  high above the ground (with no accessible buildings next to him (so no way he jumped from one or anything like that) and mods responded saying inadequate evidence. (facepalm)

They said "soot a video"... LOL As if I log to Tanki to do their job.

 

 

 

 

Is that inadequate evidence? How on earth can one be at that point without fly hack?

[BSG-62 512]

*Gets 300 upvotes.* Nothing happens.

[Materialist 456]

Assumptions:

- a mult is a secondary account, that has to be leveled fast in order to be used as a mult (Major at least):

- the mult owner will use a lot of drugs the get his account from recruit up towards Major or higher

- this fast ranking is easiest done with a little real money for kits and the (ab)use of drugs

- if you have a mult in your team, you almost _have_ to use drugs yourself to compensate for him

 

Conclusion:

- tanki earns a lot real money, accumulated over all people that want to create their personal mult secondary account in fast time

- as well as by the ones that try to compensate mults in their own team

 

Does someone share that thought?

Although I would disagree that someone would spend money for a mult, mostly they just find account on internet, but such conclusion would explain a lot xD Mults could also be those who have extremely low K/D, but again, it could also be just inexperienced DM lover.

 

Even if such kicks systems somehow is inadequate, then why not to improve system of how moderators receive /vote reports?

As far as I know moderators just get players' nicknames marked in yellow after they are voted, and they might enter only if they coincidentally click on your battle, and, if they're up to it. Why not make something more efficient and informative to both players and moderators? For example, it could be the same way players receive invites to battles, and if one moderator refuses/ignores, it would pass to another and to another and so on until there are no free moderator left, and you would finally receive notification 'No moderators available at the moment' so that you wouldn't waste your time and accept your defeat or 'Moderator is joining at your invitation'.

 

Mults problem is present since the very beginning of tanki, yet it is viewed nearly as the least prioritized issue. 

 

After this comes autoclickers problem. Russians have a huge advantage in this case, what's more that they make the biggest part of this game. Even with such kick system, people with wide friends circle could have changing friends everytime their limit time passes. I once read idea about queue system, and I think word queue explains all there is to know about it.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Even if such kicks systems somehow is inadequate,

Explain the somehow.

But people's main accounts are also mults. Don't get hung up on what the word means (Multiple Accounts). Since punishment for sabotage is virutually non-existent, players these days don't care if they get a small slap on the wrist. A secondary account is no longer needed to be mult-like.

 

I'd say most of us are lucky if we can get 5 or even 6 intelligent and strong players in the same battle but there is still no defense against a clan side who communicate, have 10 players using m3/m4s, drugging and after all that, they place 3 or 4 players on your side just to be annoying.  Did I mention they cheat with hacks too!

 

This kick2 idea is as fair and as sound as it gets so don't say it's inadequate without backing that up. Not that I care that much now. Tanki devs have shown their true colours on this issue. Sending each other teddy bears is obviously a lot more important than the cheating that is rife in this game.

[Materialist 456]

Explain the somehow.

I don't think it's somehow inadequate, I think it's almoust perfect. Im just trying to spot the reason why it is not being developed and initialized yet, and if such reason exists, Im suggesting an alternative.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

HATE MULTS AND CHEATS?

WELL DON'T WORRY - WE CAN NOW SEND TEDDY BEARS TO EACH OTHER!

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I don't think it's somehow inadequate, I think it's almoust perfect. Im just trying to spot the reason why it is not being developed and initialized yet, and if such reason exists, Im suggesting an alternative.

I've come out of Tanki forum retirement to comment on this.

The reason they do nothing is that cheats and mults make Tanki money. Just think of all the supplies that get wasted trying to fight these players.

Also remember that they don't care about high rank players. Players will spend real money to reach that final rank. Once there, they want you to feel inadequate, hopeing you will start another account in an attempt to "do it right this time" and spend even more money. 

 

Every single update is about making money NOT about what's best for the players or the game. They don't care about non-buyers and and don't care if we leave. There is always another naive kid with money to spend who will join to take our place. This is a play for free but pay to stay game, plain and simple.

 

NOW back to retirement. I've already wasted enough time here.

[Ashraf 49]

I would make a comment, but anything I can think to say has already been said. I don't think this problem will ever be solved. Welcome to Tanki Online.

[generalpotato_PRO 1,076]

Lol mult of the year: Dgonik05

[TG159 734]

 

 

Now A Tanki World Record For Most Likes In The Forum[/centre

 

not just because it's a sound idea but mainly because players hate mults and cheats

they want something done about it.

Sending Teddy Bears is all well and good but c'mon tanki, where your priorities at?

Overview

Kick2 is a new solution for a Players' Kick System. The idea was based on the original Kick but with considered feedback here in the topic, improvements were implemented that make this system a lot fairer and far less likely to be abused. Thanks everyone for helping and getting involved.

 

With Kick2 in place, /vote would become easier to manage as more players moderate their own games, alleviating some of the workload for mods who strive to keep tanki clean and fair for all of us to enjoy.

Read the interview in the

=========================================================================

Detailed Spreadsheet Example

 

 

Principle: Who can give and receive votes and how is it determined?

The principle might be difficult to understand if you're reading it for the first time. Bear with it and refer to the spreadsheet example where I show calculations. I've highlighted the jargon and terminology in orange so try and use it when responding.

 

Kick2 is centered around 'Score' & 'Work-Rate'. Work-rate is your score divided by the number of minutes you have been in the battle and is measured in points per minute or ppm for short. It is important to factor-in this work-rate component because a kick system based just on score alone is inadequate.

 

The scores and work-rates for the rest of your team is continuously assessed in order to determine the average team performance values. Two personalised safe-zones are established for each player, one for score and one for work-rate. Your contribution is then compared to these values and should you find yourself outside of these safe-zones then you will become eligible to receive kick-votes. Let me explain the spreadsheet example a bit...

• The 'Safe Score' and 'Safe ppm' values are taken into consideration when players start to vote for one another. These are currently set to 55% of the average scores and average work-rates of the other players on your team.
• Safe Score & Safe ppm are the values one needs to be above in order to be considered safe from receiving votes.
• When a player is considered to be safe in terms of Score, he is then allowed to vote for players who are considered to be unsafe in score, (i.e. a ScoreVote). Similarly, when a player is considered to be safe in terms of work-rate, he is then allowed to vote for players who are considered to be unsafe in work-rate, (i.e. a ppmVote)
• Each of these votes are worth ½ a kick-vote.
• These votes, (ScoreVotes & ppmVotes), are not issued separately but via a single vote action and will be automatically applied as appropriate by the system. This means that when you vote for someone, they will receive either ½ a kick-vote or a full one depending on your own standing.

=========================================================================

Which battles will have this system and can it be disabled at battle creation?

Kick2 will be enabled by default for all team battles that are over 15 minutes in length.

How do I vote?

In exactly the same way as you did with the old team kick. When you press Tab, you will see vote icons adjacent the names of the players who are considered unsafe. If you see the icon then you can click it to vote for that player. If you can't see it then you are not eligible to vote yet. The system will work out who can and can't vote so you don't have to work anything out.

How many kick-votes are needed for a kick?

Simply take the number of players on your team and divide it by 2.

(Does not include players on grace period - see below)

Will the kick be instant?

No. A player who receives the required number of kick-votes will then be notified and put on probation and will get 4 minutes*** in which to improve. If at any time he finds himself in a state of safety in terms of Score or Work-Rate then he will be taken off probation and the kick-votes against him will be dropped. *** 4 minutes is an example time.

How many times can I be put on probation?

You are allowed to come back from probation once. After that, you can be kicked the moment enough votes are cast your way.

Can we see the the number of votes we have received?

The number of kick-votes you have received will not be visible to you until you are on probation.

The kick-votes of other players will only be visible to you once you have voted for them.

Can I vote for more than one player at a time?

Yes. As long as you are eligible to give them and players are eligible to receive them, vote for as many as you like but please be sensible and have a reason for doing so.

I've made a mistake, I didn't want to vote for that player!

You cannot withdraw your vote against a player once you have cast it. The player will have to climb back to the safe-zone in order to drop it.

Do we get a grace period when entering a battle?

Yes there will be a short grace period upon entering a battle for you to register some points.

You cannot vote or be voted for by other players in your first 4 minutes of a battle.

However, you can receive a system-vote. (see optional system-vote below this main suggestion for details).

While in this period, your score and work-rate values will not contribute toward team averages.

I joined a battle late, my score is low compared to others, do I need to worry about being kicked?

No. You don't have to worry but you do have to be careful.

 

 

Scenario:

You've joined a battle that has been raging for 2 hours and everyone has scores over 5000 apart from you.

Kick2 will give protection to you and the existing players but only if everyone is adequately competing.

Your score in this scenario will be very low and you might receive ScoreVotes from the other players but they will not be enough to put you on probation on their own. Enter the battle 'all guns blazing', keep your work-rate up, (ppm), and you'll be fine. If you can't compete then you might find yourself on probation and then kicked. Consideration should be given by any player when entering a battle that has been playing for a long time. If you can't compete in it then you quite rightly should not play in it!

I want to take a break but I don't want to get voted off!

If you take a break when your score or work-rate are low then you run the risk of receiving votes from your teammates or from the system. Far better to battle hard first, get some good points under your belt and then go for your break. Don't be too long now!

I'm not scoring much but I'm of value to my team

This is probably the biggest concern received from players but less so since update 294 where you can score for contributing to a kill. If you are guarding your clutch of mines in a strategic part of a map, camping, sniping or flag-sitting and you find yourself not scoring much then you might find yourself at the mercy of your teammates. They will either value what you are doing and not vote for you or they will find it pointless and you'll get voted for. Bear in mind, when you perform these tasks, you are more often than not playing with friends that won't vote for you. Ultimately, if you think you're not scoring enough and you are running the risk of receiving votes, change strategies for a while to be safe and resume your selfless duties when circumstances permit!

I've been voted for. Will votes be removed if I improve?

Yes. eg/ Let's say your score is terrible in a 10v10 battle and you receive 6 ScoreVotes from your teammates. This equates to 3 kick-votes. You then go on a killing spree and you re-enter the safe-zone. At that point, the ScoreVotes will be removed. It is exactly the same for the work-rate aspect.

Can I leave and rejoin the battle?

You can rejoin a battle if you left it with a clean record.

You are not allowed to rejoin a battle If you left it while; you were eligible to receive votes; you were in your probationary period.

I have been kicked. Can I rejoin the battle?

No, not even if you ask nicely!

Can you explain some of the spreadsheet example?

• Player2 has a score of 450

  The average score of the players around him is 290

  55% of 290 is 160

  Because his score is greater that 160, he is considered to be safe from ScoreVotes.

• Player2 also has a work-rate of 10ppm

  The average work-rate of the players around him is 11ppm

  55% of 11 is 6.1

  Because his work-rate is greater than 6.1ppm, he is considered to be safe from ppmVotes.

• Player9 is safe from ppmVotes but not from ScoreVotes because his score (130) is less than 55% of the average ppm of the other 9 players around him (179).

  As 7 players are safe in that aspect, they can all vote for him. Player9 could get a max 7 x 0.5 = 3½ kick-votes.

• Player8 can receive 16 x 0.5 = 8 kick-votes which will put him over the 5 kick-votes required to be placed on probation.

Who gets protection?

• It will be impossible to kick players with a good score or a good work-rate (or both!).
• Honest players competing in battle can feel secure.
• Below average players are accorded protection.

=========================================================================

Optional Bolt-on to main suggestion: System-Vote

 

Sometimes violators are not so obvious. When you're battling hard you sometimes don't have time to look at players scores and ratios to see if they're trying or playing half-heartedly. System-Vote will facilitate and speed-up the kicking of these violators.

What is System-Vote?

System-Vote is system controlled and will, when certain conditions are met, automatically penalise a player by issuing a System-Vote against their name on the scoreboard.

Conditions

• Both sides need to be at least half full for system-vote to be enabled. It will be disabled at all other times.
• If a player has not scored 10 pts in their first 3 minutes of a battle then they are automatically issued a system-vote.
• If a player has not scored 10 pts in their last 6 minutes of play, (including a paused battle and spending time in the garage), then they are automatically issued a system-vote.
• additional feedback welcome for more conditions

Note: If a player has a good score and a good ppm, (i.e. safe in terms of score and work-rate), then this system-vote will have no effect.

What is a System-Vote worth?

 

 

A System-Vote will be worth the above and it effectively, not always, puts a player on probation

Will I be instantly kicked if I'm issued a system-vote?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take away gold box privileges of those exhibiting mult-like behaviour.

See this topic

=========================================================================

 

Proponents

@AbsoluteZero @Canadian_Eh

*Didn't read*

oh well.

[BSG-62 512]

^Why post here then?

[VaudeVille 1,428]

Brilliantly explained, would love to see a kick system of this sort. The older kick system was definitely not as effective as this.

Your suggestion is extremely clear and the best suggestions I have ever seen it terms of how it has been explained.

Totally deserves to be seen by the developers.

+1

[VaudeVille 1,428]

The reason they do nothing is that cheats and mults make Tanki money. Just think of all the supplies that get wasted trying to fight these players.

Also remember that they don't care about high rank players. Players will spend real money to reach that final rank. Once there, they want you to feel inadequate, hopeing you will start another account in an attempt to "do it right this time" and spend even more money.

 

Every single update is about making money NOT about what's best for the players or the game. They don't care about non-buyers and and don't care if we leave. There is always another naive kid with money to spend who will join to take our place.

u couldn't have been more wrong. Probably u haven't ever played any MMO other than Tanki. U haven't seen how other MMO which appear to be free to play are totally pay to win. I have never spent a nickel on the game but I am totally satisfied with it. Probably cuz I play mostly XP/BP. And if u talk about cheating, u haven't seen what real cheating can get to in MMOs. I have played a bunch of them and trust me TO is extremely effective in dealing with violators which makes the game as fair as it can get.

Tho mults are a nuisance, which is why I have liked this topic.

Also a kick system helps in removing incompetent players using m0s

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Thanks for your +1.

 

From the Newspaper article.
Could you give us an example of your system in action?

Scenario: 9 players have been in a battle for 10 minutes and have all scored 200pts each. This means their average score is 200pts and their average work-rate is 20 points per minute (ppm for short). 55% of these values is 110pts and 11ppm respectively. Let’s say you have joined the battle a little late and have been there for 8 minutes and have amassed 100pts. Because you have scored less than 110pts, you could get a maximum 4½ kick-votes against your name from the other 9 players. However, your work-rate will save you because that works out to 12.5 ppm. Therefore you cannot receive the 5 full votes necessary to put you on probation. Remember, you are only truly at risk of being kicked when both your score and your work-rate drops out of the safe zones.

Above scenario:
 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

u couldn't have been more wrong. Probably u haven't ever played any MMO other than Tanki. U haven't seen how other MMO which appear to be free to play are totally pay to win. I have never spent a nickel on the game but I am totally satisfied with it. Probably cuz I play mostly XP/BP. And if u talk about cheating, u haven't seen what real cheating can get to in MMOs. I have played a bunch of them and trust me TO is extremely effective in dealing with violators which makes the game as fair as it can get.

Tho mults are a nuisance, which is why I have liked this topic.

Also a kick system helps in removing incompetent players using m0s

 

I believe Tanki has failed players when it comes to mults and sabotage. They're not interested in doing anything meaningful to fix this plague. Although it's against the rules to sabotage, it still goes on in a high proportion of games I play in which is mainly CTF and CP.  It's a problem that has forced many players to reduce their playing time here or leave all together.

 

Reporting it is a real chore and violators seemingly just get a small slap on the wrist and then they're back again soon after to sabotage you once more.

 

And I've never played any other MMO game other than tanki but measuring their effectiveness against other MMO's is really irrelevant.

 

I'm not sure if this account is your highest rank or not but if it is, you'll find out the injustices of this game soon enough the higher you climb.

[VaudeVille 1,428]

I agree that the kick system u are proposing is very effective and it's required. But idk about all that coding.

After all flash isn't the best platform to create games and they have done a decent job, but there should definitely be a kick system, as it removes incompetent players using m0, m1. And ofc moults are an absolute pain.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I agree that the kick system u are proposing is very effective and it's required. But idk about all that coding.

After all flash isn't the best platform to create games and they have done a decent job, but there should definitely be a kick system, as it removes incompetent players using m0, m1. And ofc moults are an absolute pain.

Coding is relatively simple and there are no restrictions because it's flash. It just doesn't fit their agenda. I can guess why but it's just a guess.

[VaudeVille 1,428]

Well anyway, try to get a mass of players to up vote this. Cuz if an idea gets extremely popular, it will get added to the game. Tho parkour battles should remain open without kicks.

I really want to see kick2 in the game

[CrimsonSaviour 40]

Mults are unbelievable. Always a noob 1 star guy always show up out of nowhere and drag the team down. Recording means following the user and not helping the team. Kick2 is awesome and must be implemented! Mults are everywhere, in every game I played. Now they even take over battles in 15 mins ones. Madness.

 

It's even worse with the new CP system!

 

How can Tanki pit an organized team with a random team?

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Mults are unbelievable. Always a noob 1 star guy always show up out of nowhere and drag the team down. Recording means following the user and not helping the team. Kick2 is awesome and must be implemented! Mults are everywhere, in every game I played. Now they even take over battles in 15 mins ones. Madness.

 

It's even worse with the new CP system!

 

How can Tanki pit an organized team with a random team?

Look on the bright side, we can now send teddy bears to each other.  I ask you, which is more important?

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

One would think 367 upvotes, which is record btw, should be enough but we all know what will happen.  NOTHING.