Let's Discuss Hammer!

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Still getting good scores with duplet but it's not as fun as before. Not a waste of 100k by any means but I'm sure tanki will ruin it in some way...

I hope so, because the thing is really frustrating to fight against.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Sigh, bought Adaptive Reload and I have to say, I'm disappointed with my purchase. I didn't account for the potential amount of players who would have hammer protection because of the stupid Duplet Alteration. Thanks a lot, Duplet -_-.

 

I also didn't wait till I had an M3 Medium hull to use it with. 

 

All in all, the alteration is better than it's supposed to be because this is just barely an upgrade. The clip reload time increase used to be 20% but I saw a few days ago that it's 10% now. That wasn't in the balance changes so maybe the devs did this behind our backs. I'll reserve the alteration to be used in Polygon CP battles where I found it, in my mind before I bought the alteration, to be the most effective. 

 

I feel sorry for all the Stock Hammers out there. Hammer doesn't deal with protection modules well, especially when I miss 1 or 2 of my pellets at point blank range. Like seriously, how in the heck do you hit 6-8 out of your 9 pellets at point blank range? 

Edited January 27, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[ZloyDanuJI 409]

Sigh, bought Adaptive Reload and I have to say, I'm disappointed with my purchase

you'll just need blaster drone to use with it. 

[banana1_idk 1]

hammer xt time

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

Sigh, bought Adaptive Reload and I have to say, I'm disappointed with my purchase. I didn't account for the potential amount of players who would have hammer protection because of the stupid Duplet Alteration. Thanks a lot, Duplet -_-.

 

I also didn't wait till I had an M3 Medium hull to use it with. 

 

All in all, the alteration is better than it's supposed to be because this is just barely an upgrade. The clip reload time increase used to be 20% but I saw a few days ago that it's 10% now. That wasn't in the balance changes so maybe the devs did this behind our backs. I'll reserve the alteration to be used in Polygon CP battles where I found it, in my mind before I bought the alteration, to be the most effective. 

 

I feel sorry for all the Stock Hammers out there. Hammer doesn't deal with protection modules well, especially when I miss 1 or 2 of my pellets at point blank range. Like seriously, how in the heck do you hit 6-8 out of your 9 pellets at point blank range?

 

I'll give my adaptive reload a few battles next challenge, though it may be more of a pro-battle alteration. Although 2 most important things with hammer are hitting pellets and avoiding protection.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

So for the duplet users, I have a question. Does the double shots come with just one tap of the shooting button? Or do you have to hold down the shooting button?

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

So for the duplet users, I have a question. Does the double shots come with just one tap of the shooting button? Or do you have to hold down the shooting button?

Hold the shooting button.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

So for the duplet users, I have a question. Does the double shots come with just one tap of the shooting button? Or do you have to hold down the shooting button?

 

Hold the shooting button.

I instinctively press the shoot button twice. 

 

When it was first released, I had thought you needed to press the button once for both shots to fire, but that was thrown into the water when I saw that a Duplet user shot me once, turned around, realised I wasn't dead, then shot me again. I remember holding the spacebar in the Test Server a while ago and it only shot one shot. I just did it in the Test Server at FrozenRailgun is correct, it shoots both when you hold it down.

 

It makes sense considering that when you hold down spacebar with Stock Hammer, it would shoot all of the shots after each respective shot reload. Duplet decreases the shot reload so it's only accurate that it shoots both by holding down the spacebar as well. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

 I just did it in the Test Server at FrozenRailgun is correct, it shoots both when you hold it down.

I tried with Duplet earlier in Test Server. Ho ho ho! M4 Viking-Duplet, Wolf and Spider.... THAT DAMAGE PER SECOND BOOOOOOOOOOOOI!!!!!!

[Michael828 816]

I like how hammer just stares at you while it is waiting to reload. For a moment you'd think it doesn't wanna kill you, then all of a sudden you receive two quick devastating shots. <_<

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Duplet is perfect for DM. The only thing better is twins or the uranium alt.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Had a really fun game with Adaptive Reload Hammer. When I spawned, I was able to shoot 16 shots consecutively and got 6 kills before I died. 

[Mountaingoat11 26]

until hammer died

[littlesquirt27 0]

I have an alt building to use hammer. the problem I run into is not being able to activate double damage with supplies at the low ranks. It seems there is a steep hill before you reach it's full effectiveness one shotting light turrets. Has anyone else experienced this battle?

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

I wonder if any Legend players branched off of Duplet and tried Adaptive Reload? All I see up there are Duplet Hammers as if there is nothing else to use. 

 

You can get more value out of the Booster Drone with Adaptive Reload than Duplet as well. 

[POKEFREEK 19]

can anyone tell me how good Adaptive(hammer) reload is or should i go with duplet???

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

can anyone tell me how good Adaptive(hammer) reload is or should i go with duplet???

You're better off with Duplet, to be honest. The double shot mechanic is better than an instant 2-shot reload after a kill. When I use it in the same battles as Duplets, I always come last (to them) and usually not even in the top of the scoreboard. Protection modules hamper you as well since Duplet basically induced them all over the place. It's great when there are a group of enemies that are unprotected and you have double damage. 

Adaptive Reload, as I had thought and then experienced, is really fun to use in Polygon since everyone doesn't have the need to equip Hammer protection and the enemies don't have any supplies. 

 

Duplet excels in MM and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. I'd suggest waiting until Tanki's birthday to purchase the alteration though. At least see what balance change may come in the near future. 

 

 

Adaptive Reload is practically an upgrade to Hammer since the 10% clip reload increase is almost unnoticeable but DUplet seems to be better all round in terms of survivability and surprise tactics. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Kill_the_Propaganda2

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

[N3tralRE 282]

Seeing how a wide majority of Hammers these days use Duplet, I want to see something different for once.  That is, I want to see regular Hammer become more viable in the current, fast-paced metagame.  With that said, here are a few interrelated changes I propose:

 

 

 

Regular Hammer buffs

 

Shots per clip: 3 ---> 4

Reload rate between shots (at M4): 1.8 seconds ---> 1.4 seconds

 

 

 

 

Duplet Hammer nerfs

 

 

Shots per clip: -1 ---> -2 (Duplet will still have 2 shots per clip, appropriate for its name)

Reload rate between shots (at M4): set to 0.27 seconds (Duplet keeps its current Reload rate between shots)

 

 

 

 

Slugger Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: set to 3 (only Regular Hammer gets 4 shots)

 

 

 

 

Dragons Breath Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: set to 3 (only Regular Hammer gets 4 shots)

 

 

 

 

High-Capacity Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: +2 ---> +1

 

 

 

 

Adaptive Reload nerf

 

 

Destroying an enemy adds 2 shots (instead of 3) to clip

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think?  Are these changes too much?  Too little?  Or should Tanki do nothing?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Seeing how a wide majority of Hammers these days use Duplet, I want to see something different for once.  That is, I want to see regular Hammer become more viable in the current, fast-paced metagame.  With that said, here are a few interrelated changes I propose:

 

 

 

Regular Hammer buffs

 

Shots per clip: 3 ---> 4

Reload rate between shots (at M4): 1.8 seconds ---> 1.4 seconds

 

 

 

 

Duplet Hammer nerfs

 

 

Shots per clip: -1 ---> -2 (Duplet will still have 2 shots per clip, appropriate for its name)

Reload rate between shots (at M4): set to 0.27 seconds (Duplet keeps its current Reload rate between shots)

 

 

 

 

Slugger Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: set to 3 (only Regular Hammer gets 4 shots)

 

 

 

 

Dragons Breath Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: set to 3 (only Regular Hammer gets 4 shots)

 

 

 

 

High-Capacity Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: +2 ---> +1

 

 

 

 

Adaptive Reload nerf

 

 

Destroying an enemy adds 2 shots (instead of 3) to clip

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think?  Are these changes too much?  Too little?  Or should Tanki do nothing?

Now, I agree that Stock Hammer isn't as viable as some of its alterations, especially Adaptive Reload, which became a direct upgrade after its recent buff. I had thought of giving Hammer another shot but I felt as if that would be too unbalanced. I thought that maybe it needed an increase in damage, or maybe even regain some of the pellets it lost to a balance update a long time ago. Currently, you'd see a lot of altered Hammers, most notably, Duplet, even after 3 nerfs. 

 

Let's just go with your idea. First off, that decrease in the shot reload, accompanied by an increase in the clip size, would be a very large buff, and may disturb balance with other turrets and not just the interactions with its alterations. So if anything, just one or the other is fine, not both. The change with the increase in the clip size will benefit all modifications while the decreased shot reload would benefit Hammers of higher modifications the most. 

 

An alternate change could be using both of the buffs while decreasing its damage per shot by 12%. So that while it technically takes a tad bit longer to deal the damage, it will deal more at the end of its clip. 

 

Now, onto the alteration suggestions. 

 

Duplet:

 

Exactly the same. Nothing changed here beside the change in the number of shots decreased because of the clip increase of Stock Hammer. 

 

Slugger and Dragon's Breath:

 

Makes sense. Perhaps Slugger should be allowed the 4 shots as well, and maybe Dragon's Breath having its pellet spread become reduced to stay on par with the new Hammer (which has an extra shot for more damage). 

 

High-Capacity Ammo Clip:

 

Giving this only 1 more shot doesn't do the alteration justice. It should be increased to 6 if Stock hammer now gets 4. Because it's getting more shots, it would need to have its shot reload increase regained, maybe even a slight increase (nerf) in the clip reload time). 

 

Adaptive Reload:

 

Yes, bump that down to 2 shots for a kill immediately. I don't see why it should give back all ammo in the first place. Before, with 2, you actually had a chance to lose against another enemy. Say you kill someone with the last shot and you now have 2, what if the next enemy requires 3 shots to die? Well, that's not a problem anymore with its buff. That is what saved it from being a direct upgrade, that situation I laid out there. After its buff, it is not a direct upgrade. 

 

The second thing is to increase its clip reload time by 20 or 25% instead of 10%. Like seriously, 10% isn't even noticeable and if you played only this, you wouldn't have a problem. 

 

---

 

 

Those are the only changes that I would make. I do wish to see more Stock hammers, but with the way things are going, it seems as if imbalance generates revenue. 

 

The effect this may have on the lower ranks may be too much to bear which is a hard part of trying to create balance on all tiers. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

Seeing how a wide majority of Hammers these days use Duplet, I want to see something different for once.  That is, I want to see regular Hammer become more viable in the current, fast-paced metagame.  With that said, here are a few interrelated changes I propose:

 

 

 

Regular Hammer buffs

 

Shots per clip: 3 ---> 4

Reload rate between shots (at M4): 1.8 seconds ---> 1.4 seconds

 

 

 

 

Duplet Hammer nerfs

 

 

Shots per clip: -1 ---> -2 (Duplet will still have 2 shots per clip, appropriate for its name)

Reload rate between shots (at M4): set to 0.27 seconds (Duplet keeps its current Reload rate between shots)

 

 

 

 

Slugger Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: set to 3 (only Regular Hammer gets 4 shots)

 

 

 

 

Dragons Breath Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: set to 3 (only Regular Hammer gets 4 shots)

 

 

 

 

High-Capacity Hammer nerf

 

 

Shots per clip: +2 ---> +1

 

 

 

 

Adaptive Reload nerf

 

 

Destroying an enemy adds 2 shots (instead of 3) to clip

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think?  Are these changes too much?  Too little?  Or should Tanki do nothing?

As someone who has used crystals on all these hammer alterations, I dislike this. If I was a developer who wants crystals to be spent on all these hammer alterations, I would dislike this more. 

But as someone who understands that stock hammer is simply weaker than all of its alterations, I am interested. 

 

However I do think that the numbers are a little off. 

 

Stock Hammer would go from 3 shots in 5.4 seconds, to 4 shots in 5.6 seconds. At m4, that's an extra 1080 damage and one more punch of impact force to make up for the time. With no increase in reload time after the shots are fired, this would become the most hated turret overnight. High Capacity Ammo-Clip would get 5 shots in 7 seconds as opposed to 9, which is also really strong. In supplies off battles, hammer would go from already good to top-3. I also feel like it's wrong to punish dragon's breath or slugger with a shot loss. The entire purpose of those alterations is to make Hammer good at their respective, very specific ranges, and they already have drawbacks. If the goal is seeing new hammer playstyles, I wouldn't mind some dragons breath or slugger, myself. I understand the adaptive reload change in this scenario.

 

These are super cool ideas for changes, but not for people without the hammer protection module. However they did inspire me to get thinking about how to balance stock hammer, so I'll fire some changes back your way if you don't mind.

 

 

 

Stock Hammer: Damage increased by 12% (From 540 - 1080 to 605 to 1210). The significance being that hammer can now 3 shot heavy hulls one modification lower. And damage is all people seem to care about.

 

Duplet: Keeps Current Damage (540 - 1080)

 

Slugger: Receives the 12% Damage increase. Additionally, the -30% rotation speed nerf changed to -25%. 

 

Dragon's Breath: Receives the 12% Damage increase. Pellets no longer bounce. The reason being to protect the hammer user from their own burn.

 

High Capacity Ammo Clip: Receives the 12% Damage increase. Additionally, the +15% clip reload nerf changed to +50%.

 

Adaptive Reload: Keeps Current Damage (540-1080) Additionally, reduce the shot reload by 15%  

 

The main point of my changes, ontop of buffing stock hammer, is to keep the element of precision in hammer by giving the more precision-oriented alterations buffs and requiring the less precise alterations to be precise or lose out on effectiveness. 

 

 

[N3tralRE 282]

@TheCongoSpider & @NamesAreForNoobs

 

Thanks for your responses!  I'll admit that my ideas on nerfing the Slugger and Dragons Breath alterations were a bit extreme, primarily because I believed that regular Hammer should become truly good enough to be used over its other alterations. 

 

Along with Congo's ideas, I think increasing Hammer's clip size from 3 to 4 while keeping its current reload times (or increasing them a bit) would make Hammer much better and more desirable for players at all ranks.  Alternatively, keeping Hammer's clip to 3 shots increasing regular Hammer's damage, combined with Names' ideas, would also do the trick, though not as much as increasing clip size. 

 

Against Twins and Ricochet, Hammer would have a better chance against them with 4 shots ready, especially since the knock-back from their plasma projectiles is enough to throw off a player's aim and waste their shot.  With just increased damage per shot, though, Hammer would only have a slightly better chance against Twins and Ricochet.  As for other players, I reckon that either of these changes to regular Hammer would be

met with some groaning, but I imagine that working in Congo's and/or Names' ideas for balancing Hammer's alterations would be a bit more appreciated among players.  Plus, I think players would ultimately come to love the buffs to regular Hammer as a well-needed change of scenery to Hammer play. 

 

Still, Tanki likes doing things on their whim and putting out imbalanced stuff for players to buy.  If they were to buff regular Hammer at all, I fear that they would also produce a new, imbalanced toy for bored players to spend on.  In such a case, I only hope regular Hammer is at least viable to compete with Duplet and its other alterations. 

 

Thanks again for your feedback!

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

dragon's breath already have drawbacks.

 

 

What drawbacks? If you think the more spread out pellets are a drawback. Well they're more of an advantage than a setback.

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

@TheCongoSpider & @NamesAreForNoobs

 

Thanks for your responses!  I'll admit that my ideas on nerfing the Slugger and Dragons Breath alterations were a bit extreme, primarily because I believed that regular Hammer should become truly good enough to be used over its other alterations. 

 

Along with Congo's ideas, I think increasing Hammer's clip size from 3 to 4 while keeping its current reload times (or increasing them a bit) would make Hammer much better and more desirable for players at all ranks.  Alternatively, keeping Hammer's clip to 3 shots increasing regular Hammer's damage, combined with Names' ideas, would also do the trick, though not as much as increasing clip size. 

 

Against Twins and Ricochet, Hammer would have a better chance against them with 4 shots ready, especially since the knock-back from their plasma projectiles is enough to throw off a player's aim and waste their shot.  With just increased damage per shot, though, Hammer would only have a slightly better chance against Twins and Ricochet.  As for other players, I reckon that either of these changes to regular Hammer would be

met with some groaning, but I imagine that working in Congo's and/or Names' ideas for balancing Hammer's alterations would be a bit more appreciated among players.  Plus, I think players would ultimately come to love the buffs to regular Hammer as a well-needed change of scenery to Hammer play. 

 

Still, Tanki likes doing things on their whim and putting out imbalanced stuff for players to buy.  If they were to buff regular Hammer at all, I fear that they would also produce a new, imbalanced toy for bored players to spend on.  In such a case, I only hope regular Hammer is at least viable to compete with Duplet and its other alterations. 

 

Thanks again for your feedback!

You're welcome! Even though we had different ideas of what to do with the alterations, I still liked going over your values and seeing how another player would like hammer to be.

 

I think what most players would prefer is a more stabilized usage of hammer and its alterations, as opposed to just one version everywhere. However, I do think duplet is here to stay, mainly because it is a proven way of racking up score and getting a higher star count, while the other versions of hammer are designed for other purposes that don't follow the Kills, Score, Stars, Rewards pattern.  

 

I would find it quite interesting to fight a 4 shot hammer, with regular shot reload, it might be balanced, my damage increase suggestion wouldn't have as big an effect to be sure, I think it is a good intermediary change to see how hammer would perform, and if the 4th shot is better or if it would be too strong. 

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

What drawbacks? If you think the more spread out pellets are a drawback. Well they're more of an advantage than a setback.

They're clearly intended to be a drawback, On the alterations page on wiki it colours the stat changes as red, implying negative.  

 

When exactly do you find them helpful?