Let's Discuss Vulcan!

[Cleric 1,385]

2 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

On maps with lots of tunnels and other props, RR is fun to use as a sort of bootleg Ricochet.

Then it is way too situational. In MM, which is the way the Devs want you to play, there isn't that many tunnels. 

[Cleric 1,385]

I have been playing Vulcan + Titan with adrenaline  + HI. I notice zero performance drop compare to when I use IB. Yes, you lose that DOT effect, but now you are able to actually shoot something far way.

Previously, even I'm able to lead the bullet stream, the auto vertical aim simply don't want to work with me. It was impossible to hit moving target at mid range. Now? Ha, it destroy them.

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/22/2021 at 2:58 AM, At_Shin said:

Glad to see a Vulcun player exploring augments other than IB and RAT. 

Well, since augments aren't that cheap I don't have that many. Would love to have adrenaline, but cost is prohibitive. Unfortunately with the removal of IB the vulcan is no too much fun to play with. The IB gave Vulcan some different roles on the team. Now, it can be helpful as a suppressor (much like twins) but that's about it.

Edited May 26, 2021 by enri_chill

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

I honestly though Incendiary Band's role was just to give you an add-on in case you needed to consume a little bit extra ammo to take out the tougher-than-average enemy you occasionally run into.

 

Keep in mind, these originated as "Alterations" so you didn't need to buy them. For all we want, we could've just used the Default version of Vulcan and be perfectly fine with it.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Tanker-Arthur

[enri_chill 135]

11 hours ago, At_Shin said:

Can you please explain what different roles IB gave vulcun before the nerf?

The Vulcan with IB was ideal on a faster hull to strafe enemies at a distance (allowing a small weakening of defenses) between barriers followed by a more straight assault to pave the way for flag grabs, goal scores, etc.  As it is now it is suited more in a suppressive role (at least what I have seen) while others handle more of the storming of base, etc. The burning effect also was a cheap means of tracking defenders as the damage would continue to tick for 3-7 seconds depending on how many rounds they were hit by. Obviously that is gone so you are very blind should you choose enter into closer quarters without a high DPS / faster rotating turret.

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:38 AM, Aegis said:

So Incendiary band is back to being useless essentially. Although the IB + HI combo was very good. Well, time to pick another augment.

Not useless...worse than useless. Better off on stock vulcan or any other option since there is no advantage and only a negative now. You can shoot slower shots (hard to hit targets with much success and when you miss there is no lingering burn to help destroy them) if you'd like with no additional damage

I am going to save up for adrenaline I think...at least that would give me normal shot speed and some additional damage.

[enri_chill 135]

10 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

I honestly though Incendiary Band's role was just to give you an add-on in case you needed to consume a little bit extra ammo to take out the tougher-than-average enemy you occasionally run into.

 

Keep in mind, these originated as "Alterations" so you didn't need to buy them. For all we want, we could've just used the Default version of Vulcan and be perfectly fine with it.

Well, you could always shoot longer and choose to heat up your tank in order to finish off other tanks. Using DA and Fox module would allow you to shoot even longer between deaths. So IB didn't add that feature. It allowed you to burn others while self-destructing...really never an overall benefit at all. Fire Immunity changed that where it was a net positive. Slower shots made it much harder to deal damage consistently and slower turret made it much harder in close quarters, so it took more skill to land damage at distant and up close, but the benefit of afterburn was worth the trade off in my opinion. Now that I have to self-destruct to get a single kill on a heavy hull, I will find another (higher damage per shot turret) to do more peek-a-boo tactics.

As far as not having to buy them, I assume you would know that all players would know that  The issue is always when a basic function of a turret, hull, augment, module, supply is changed after the investment was made. It is frustrating. I know it is the nature of tanki and it has cost tanki loads of players. I've stuck around for 6 years. Will pivot to some other combo or see how adrenaline works once a sale hits.

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 minutes ago, enri_chill said:

Well, you could always shoot longer and choose to heat up your tank in order to finish off other tanks. Using DA and Fox module would allow you to shoot even longer between deaths. So IB didn't add that feature. It allowed you to burn others while self-destructing...really never an overall benefit at all. Fire Immunity changed that where it was a net positive. Slower shots made it much harder to deal damage consistently and slower turret made it much harder in close quarters, so it took more skill to land damage at distant and up close, but the benefit of afterburn was worth the trade off in my opinion. Now that I have to self-destruct to get a single kill on a heavy hull, I will find another (higher damage per shot turret) to do more peek-a-boo tactics.

IB did not come with slower turret rotation.  Vulcan has always been poor in close-quarters unless you used the RAT augment.

IB+HI was silly - it should never have worked based on the required mechanics.

You can still use Heat Resistance + DA in order to burn multiple targets and still survive.  Only if many of your targets equip HI will you be at a disadvantage.  And with 1) the change to IB and 2) many other status effects out there - the odds of many of your targets equipping HI have dropped a LOT.

[enri_chill 135]

2 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

IB did not come with slower turret rotation.  Vulcan has always been poor in close-quarters unless you used the RAT augment.

IB+HI was silly - it should never have worked based on the required mechanics.

You can still use Heat Resistance + DA in order to burn multiple targets and still survive.  Only if many of your targets equip HI will you be at a disadvantage.  And with 1) the change to IB and 2) many other status effects out there - the odds of many of your targets equipping HI have dropped a LOT.

My point of the slower turret rotation was that in close quarters you are at a disadvantage and with the slower projectiles you are also at a disadvantage at long range. In other words without the afterburn, IB is a losing proposition. The only thing that ever made that worth the while was Heat Immunity. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

53 minutes ago, enri_chill said:

My point of the slower turret rotation was that in close quarters you are at a disadvantage and with the slower projectiles you are also at a disadvantage at long range. In other words without the afterburn, IB is a losing proposition. The only thing that ever made that worth the while was Heat Immunity. 

You realize IB came out a while before HI hull augment - and players were doing fine with that and fire module - which served the same purpose as the current Heat Resistance.

[enri_chill 135]

3 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

You realize IB came out a while before HI hull augment - and players were doing fine with that and fire module - which served the same purpose as the current Heat Resistance.

I realize because I played with it. You also realized the nerfed the damage per shot 15% following the release of the HI hull augment. So no one actually ever played with this version of Vulcan and IB before now.

[enri_chill 135]

3 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

You realize IB came out a while before HI hull augment - and players were doing fine with that and fire module - which served the same purpose as the current Heat Resistance.

I realize that because I played with it. You also realize they nerfed the damage per shot 15% following the release of the HI hull augment. So no one actually has ever played with this version of Vulcan and IB before now.

Edited May 27, 2021 by enri_chill

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, enri_chill said:

I realize because I played with it. You also realized the nerfed the damage per shot 15% following the release of the HI hull augment. So no one actually ever played with this version of Vulcan and IB before now.

Nerfed damage of what by 15%?

[enri_chill 135]

17 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Nerfed damage of what by 15%?

Sorry, it was a 12% nerf of vulcan damage from 50 per bullet to 44 per bullet .

as well as a 10% reduction in shooting rate...from 20 bullets per second to 18 bullets per second.

That is why is was more or less a 15% damage reduction for Vulcan. This was needed to balance the IB (with afterburn) for those who used the HI hull augment. Now that self-damage is back, they should let the damage increase on the Vulcan along with the shooting rate. Otherwise it is a reduction in total of the Vulcan's ability in the battlefield.

Edited May 27, 2021 by enri_chill

[enri_chill 135]

17 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Nerfed damage of what by 15%?

Oh, I just noticed you don't really play with Vulcan. 

Vulcan's damage is a product of rate of fire (number of projectiles/bullets per second) and damage per projectile/bullet. The only way it gets kills is through a steady stream of damage. The damage per bullet was reduced from 50 pts per bullet to 44 points per bullet. Simultaneously the rate of fire was reduced 10% from 20 shots per second to 18. Overall it was needed with a tank was equipped with IB augment and HI since on top of the damage from each bullet you were slowly increasing the enemy tank's heat by ,07 per bullet hitting them. I other words, if you can land 15 shots on the enemy you can double their heat and create an afterburn effect. The afterburn effect was the same as firebird (300 points per second). The duration of the afterburn would range from 3-7 seconds depending on how long you heated the enemy tank (if you landed 15 shots you got a 3 second afterburn...if you landed 60+ shots then you would get the full 7 seconds of afterburn).

So for an example, assuming 3 things:

1) Neither tank is using double armor or double damage (I know that is incorrect terminology now),

2) The enemy tank does not have Hull augment of Heat Immunity (no afterburn) or Heat Resistance (50% reduction in heating rate and damage from heating rate), and

3) The enemy tank does not have a Vulcan Module or Fire Module for protection...

If you hit one 15 times and nothing more, then you would inflict 15 shots@44 pts damage per shot=660 damage from the Vulcan shots. And an additional 3 seconds of afterburn @ 300 points per second of burn =900 damage from the afterburn. The total damage therefore would have been 1560 on the enemy tank.  If there was no earlier nerf of the Vulcan damage per shot then it would have been over 1800 damage from the attack.

The reduction in damage from the Vulcan from 50 per shot to 44 per shot seems small, but it isn't over time. The reduction in rate of fire by 10% reduced the shots landed (hence Damage decrease from the bullets, as well as decrease in heating of afterburn). Overall it was balanced in game play since the attacking tank could use Heat Immunity and not self-destruct.

Now with self-damage in play again (since you get no afterburn with the Heat Immunity protection on your attacking tank), it is really not worth the cost of the IB augment since you are either losing your own health to the afterburn at the same rate as the opponent or you are not generating any afterburn and simply shooting slower shots at a distance and therefore landing fewer shots resulting in a reduction in damage from the Vulcan. Either way it is no longer too functional.  

On a side note, after they nerfed the damage rate on the Vulcan I bought the Brutus drone to recoup most of the damage loss. Now that Brutus doesn't really do that function, it is just an overall less functional turret compared to Thunder, Rico, Smoky, Shaft, Twins, etc.

I am trying to play around with some options, but Firebird module doesn't protect the Attacking tank from the self-inflicted afterburn anymore and neither does the Vulcan protection module (that was changed a long time ago). Someone has suggested using the Heat Resistance augment and I am trying that. Overall I am scoring better with the stock Vulcan. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by enri_chill

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 hours ago, enri_chill said:

Oh, I just noticed you don't really play with Vulcan. 

Vulcan's damage is a product of rate of fire (number of projectiles/bullets per second) and damage per projectile/bullet. The only way it gets kills is through a steady stream of damage. The damage per bullet was reduced from 50 pts per bullet to 44 points per bullet. Simultaneously the rate of fire was reduced 10% from 20 shots per second to 18. Overall it was needed with a tank was equipped with IB augment and HI since on top of the damage from each bullet you were slowly increasing the enemy tank's heat by ,07 per bullet hitting them. I other words, if you can land 15 shots on the enemy you can double their heat and create an afterburn effect. The afterburn effect was the same as firebird (300 points per second). The duration of the afterburn would range from 3-7 seconds depending on how long you heated the enemy tank (if you landed 15 shots you got a 3 second afterburn...if you landed 60+ shots then you would get the full 7 seconds of afterburn).

So for an example, assuming 3 things:

1) Neither tank is using double armor or double damage (I know that is incorrect terminology now),

2) The enemy tank does not have Hull augment of Heat Immunity (no afterburn) or Heat Resistance (50% reduction in heating rate and damage from heating rate), and

3) The enemy tank does not have a Vulcan Module or Fire Module for protection...

If you hit one 15 times and nothing more, then you would inflict 15 shots@44 pts damage per shot=660 damage from the Vulcan shots. And an additional 3 seconds of afterburn @ 300 points per second of burn =900 damage from the afterburn. The total damage therefore would have been 1560 on the enemy tank.  If there was no earlier nerf of the Vulcan damage per shot then it would have been over 1800 damage from the attack.

The reduction in damage from the Vulcan from 50 per shot to 44 per shot seems small, but it isn't over time. The reduction in rate of fire by 10% reduced the shots landed (hence Damage decrease from the bullets, as well as decrease in heating of afterburn). Overall it was balanced in game play since the attacking tank could use Heat Immunity and not self-destruct.

Now with self-damage in play again (since you get no afterburn with the Heat Immunity protection on your attacking tank), it is really not worth the cost of the IB augment since you are either losing your own health to the afterburn at the same rate as the opponent or you are not generating any afterburn and simply shooting slower shots at a distance and therefore landing fewer shots resulting in a reduction in damage from the Vulcan. Either way it is no longer too functional.  

On a side note, after they nerfed the damage rate on the Vulcan I bought the Brutus drone to recoup most of the damage loss. Now that Brutus doesn't really do that function, it is just an overall less functional turret compared to Thunder, Rico, Smoky, Shaft, Twins, etc.

I am trying to play around with some options, but Firebird module doesn't protect the Attacking tank from the self-inflicted afterburn anymore and neither does the Vulcan protection module (that was changed a long time ago). Someone has suggested using the Heat Resistance augment and I am trying that. Overall I am scoring better with the stock Vulcan. 

My second account uses Vulcan as main turret.

I meant what got the 15% nerf?  Stock?    That nerf had nothing to do with IB.  It came after the giant bump in damage when they switched to bullets because Vulcan was then OP.

So stock and IB both suffer the same 15% damage nerf.  And I used stock vulcan a lot before I ever got HI, and it was fine. So IB has slower bullets and will take self-damage, but does a lot more damage than stock once overheating kicks in.

You can still use DA + Heat Resistance so you don't self destruct while burning enemies. You just don't have god-mode-on anymore.  That exactly what I used before I got HI, and it was fine.

IB working with HI equipped was just dumb, and had to be changed.

[enri_chill 135]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

My second account uses Vulcan as main turret.

I meant what got the 15% nerf?  Stock?    That nerf had nothing to do with IB.  It came after the giant bump in damage when they switched to bullets because Vulcan was then OP.

So stock and IB both suffer the same 15% damage nerf.  And I used stock vulcan a lot before I ever got HI, and it was fine. So IB has slower bullets and will take self-damage, but does a lot more damage than stock once overheating kicks in.

You can still use DA + Heat Resistance so you don't self destruct while burning enemies. You just don't have god-mode-on anymore.  That exactly what I used before I got HI, and it was fine.

IB working with HI equipped was just dumb, and had to be changed.

I'll try it out then once I get Heat Resistance on Viking. I had HI not HR. Right now I either use a different hull with less health or use stock vulcan. I never saw it as God Mode in matches after the nerfed damage. Do you pair a drone with it? What is your other account with Vulcan? 

Edited May 28, 2021 by enri_chill
Added question about other account name

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 minutes ago, enri_chill said:

I'll try it out then once I get Heat Resistance on Viking. I had HI not HR. Right now I either use a different hull with less health or use stock vulcan. I never saw it as God Mode in matches after the nerfed damage. Do you pair a drone with it?

I used Dictator+HI+IB+Defender.  It was ridiculous on maps like Sandox - easily get 20-30 kills as I never stopped firing once I spawned.  Really silly.

So I'd just substitute HR in for the HI.

50% sale coming up so grab HR for a few hulls...  Or buy the Adrenaline augment - works great on vulcan.  Even if you start overheating your damage will go up.

[enri_chill 135]

4 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I used Dictator+HI+IB+Defender.  It was ridiculous on maps like Sandox - easily get 20-30 kills as I never stopped firing once I spawned.  Really silly.

So I'd just substitute HR in for the HI.

50% sale coming up so grab HR for a few hulls...  Or buy the Adrenaline augment - works great on vulcan.  Even if you start overheating your damage will go up.

The defender drone was probably the difference maker. I haven't used any drone other than brutus. It was affordable and have slowly upgraded it over time to max. 

What was you k/d with that set up prior to the patch update?

 

[enri_chill 135]

15 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I used Dictator+HI+IB+Defender.  It was ridiculous on maps like Sandox - easily get 20-30 kills as I never stopped firing once I spawned.  Really silly.

So I'd just substitute HR in for the HI.

50% sale coming up so grab HR for a few hulls...  Or buy the Adrenaline augment - works great on vulcan.  Even if you start overheating your damage will go up.

I rarely see anyone posting 20-30 kills other than Viking-Hammers. That's huge. What rank?

Edited May 28, 2021 by enri_chill

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, enri_chill said:

I rarely see anyone posting 20-30 kills other than Viking-Hammers. That's huge. What rank?

Legend.

Like I said - small map where it does not take long to find targets.  Often in TJUG.

As soon as I spawned my barrels were spinning.  They didn't stop until I died.

Before status effects I could get 20 kills with hornet-gauss, when hornet had 20 seconds of god-mode-on.  Another broken combo, like IB-HI.

Edited May 28, 2021 by wolverine848

[enri_chill 135]

13 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Legend.

Like I said - small map where it does not take long to find targets.  Often in TJUG.

As soon as I spawned my barrels were spinning.  They didn't stop until I died.

Before status effects I could get 20 kills with hornet-gauss, when hornet had 20 seconds of god-mode-on.  Another broken combo, like IB-HI.

I remember the hornet months...

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/22/2021 at 2:20 AM, Aegis said:

I have been playing Vulcan + Titan with adrenaline  + HI. I notice zero performance drop compare to when I use IB. Yes, you lose that DOT effect, but now you are able to actually shoot something far way.

Previously, even I'm able to lead the bullet stream, the auto vertical aim simply don't want to work with me. It was impossible to hit moving target at mid range. Now? Ha, it destroy them.

Yeah, I think my love affair with light and midrange hulls with Vulcan will be a thing of the past. Just used Titan (not maxed out yet...7.10) with HR and IB and it performed fairly well. Not nearly as fun creating havoc for the team, but good at weakening base defenders and helping soften attacking parties. I think with changes on IB heavy hulls are the way to go.

[Cleric 1,385]

So I have been hearing ideas of using Crusaders and it is properly the best hull for Vulcan. How many of you actually agree that?

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aegis

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/31/2021 at 6:37 AM, Aegis said:

So I have been hearing ideas of using Crusaders and it is properly the best hull for Vulcan. How many of you actually agree that?

I added it to my garage during the past sales...it is not bad at all. I like it on the multi level boards where falling off anything is not a life/death experience, but an easy landing and continued game play.  I do not have a mouse and have read that mouse controls are essential for maximizing the hover hulls. Without mouse controls, it is still easy to navigate with. I don't like the ease of getting pushed around by teammates (like in Siege) when trying to stay close to a point or inside Titan's dome, but it is fun to use. Still working on the OD. There is a little delay in activating it and you'll need to get a feel for it.

I also got the adrenaline augment for the vulcan during the sale. It is a really good augment overall. So if you are like me...you enjoy the mechanics of the vulcan, but are looking for options after the removal of HI-IB  combo, try it out. Still a solid pairing.